Democrats & Liberals Archives

Tired of Being Lied To

Are you tired of being lied to? I am. We supposedly live in a democracy. We supposedly have the mechanisms for an informed citizenry.

We supposedly have mechanisms in place to protect the our health, security, and environment. Yet time after time we find we have been lied to. Unfortunately, the generally comes out way after the fact. What is even more frustrating is to be called names for trying to talk about the truth. While it may not silence those who are trying to inform and alert the populace, it does mean that the warnings are not "heard."

The news bite that set off this morning's rant was this report by Geoffrey Lean of the Independent - "US Issues Health Warning over Mercury Fillings.

Yes, the FDA is now saying that:

Dental amalgams contain mercury, which may have neurotoxic effects on the nervous systems of developing children and fetuses. When amalgam fillings are placed in teeth or removed from teeth, they release mercury vapor. Mercury vapor is also released during chewing. FDA's rulemaking (described in question 7) will examine evidence concerning whether release of mercury vapor can cause health problems, including neurological disorders, in children and fetuses. (FDA)

I don't know how many dentists I have asked about this over the years. The virtually unanimous response has been "It's not a problem." Of course as a simple non-dentist, it seemed like a bad idea to me to be putting highly toxic materials in people's mouths - including my own. For roughly 30 years, the FDA has stood by its rule that mercury-based amalgams pose no health threat. For many of those years, concerned people have tried to raise the issue - bunch of kooks.

This little news tid-bit set in motion a walk down memory lane of other lies. In no particular order ...

  • There is no swept wing stealth aircraft.
  • There are no black helicopters.
  • The military is not fooling around with weapons technology in the upper atmosphere (HAARP official site ... HAARP watchdog site.
  • Global warming isn't happening and humans have nothing to do with it.
  • Toxic wastes are not harmful for the environment or oceans.
  • Saddam Hussein has "weapons of mass destruction."
  • The CIA was not involved in the drug trade (Iran-Contra - and thanks to Gary Webb who committed suicide by shooting himself twice in the head)
  • Agent Orange is not harmful

Still under official denial and those who talk about it identified as "kooks" and "conspiracy theorists":

  • Depleted uranium is safe.

  • Nuclear plants are safe (and nuclear material can be safely stored)

  • The U.S. has not used white phosphorus as a weapon in Iraq

  • Tasers are safe

  • Vaccines do not cause autism in children

  • The Bush administration had nothing to do with 9/11

  • We "liberated" Iraq to make it safe for democracy

  • We are not engaged in covert operations to destabilize Iran (See new Hersh article "Preparing the Battlefield")

  • Global warming has nothing to do with "wacky" weather

  • Peak oil is a myth

  • Globalization is good for everyone

  • The U.S. does not torture

  • The U.S. attacked Afghanistan because of Osama bin Laden

  • Mass produced foods are nutritious

  • Genetically Modified foods are safe (environmentally and for consumption)

  • There is no such thing as electronic pollution and it does not effect the health of people or other life forms

  • Power lines are not a health hazard

  • Commercialized violence does not cause violence

  • Corporate media is "fair and balanced" and provides us with information we need

  • Animals do not "feel" or "think," and those who believe they do are "anthropomorphizing"

Obviously both of these lists could go on an on. Please add to either of these lists (admitted lies or unadmitted lies).

Posted by Rowan Wolf at June 29, 2008 11:08 AM
Comments
Comment #257063

Boy, I am glad I don’t live in your world. No wonder liberals are so depressed if they believe all that.

Posted by: Jack at June 29, 2008 11:36 AM
Comment #257069

Oh Jack, you just put yourself back onto the ludicrous list… have you never heard any of these questions/concerns raised before? And by the comment “your world”, just who might you be referring to? Are you trying to say that all conservatives are safe, and immune to all the things that Rowan has cited?? How wonderful for all of you ! And congratulations seem to be in order for you having acquired your degrees in psychiatry and/or psychology.

Posted by: janedoe at June 29, 2008 11:54 AM
Comment #257070

Jack,

Don’t paint all liberals with that brush; I have no interest in living in Rowan’s world of conspiracy theory, either.

Posted by: LawnBoy at June 29, 2008 12:04 PM
Comment #257074

Just which part is the “world of conspiracy theory?” The part that has been admitted to or the part that is still being denied?

If you look at the things on the “admitted” list, doesn’t it raise any questions for you?

Posted by: Rowan at June 29, 2008 12:35 PM
Comment #257084
If you look at the things on the “admitted” list, doesn’t it raise any questions for you?

That there are some things in the past that were once thought to be true but were later disproven does not in any way mean that other things that are currently known to be false might be later found to be true.

That we learn things over time that improve our knowledge does not give logical license to support any crazy idea that earns someone a buck.

Posted by: LawnBoy at June 29, 2008 2:20 PM
Comment #257090

Mercury in dentistry is old news. I had my old fillings taken out and replaced many years ago. Mercury in thimerisol in vaccines is the issue now. Some claim that this is good ethylmercury, which can be eliminated from the body, whereas bad methylmercury can not be eliminated.

Posted by: ohrealy at June 29, 2008 3:02 PM
Comment #257096

To all conservatives -

Just as we liberals don’t think of conservatives as a mass of Karl Rove clones, please don’t think of us as Rowan Wolf clones. Several of the problems Wolf points out are true - and there are several that are simply conspiracy theories that are not worth anyone’s time.

Just because Wolf buys into the obviously false conspiracy theories such as Bush being involved in 9/11, the invasion of Afghanistan NOT being about bin Ladin, and vaccines causing autism, it does NOT mean that the problems of global warming and peak oil are not critical to civilization’s future.

Wolf isn’t bad - but remember, even the very worst of men have good ideas sometimes. Examples of such would be the autobahn that Hitler directed to be built, Napoleon’s spread of democratic ideas, and Stalin’s decision to move the Soviet factories eastward from the Nazi advance.

Even Bush did two right things - one was to invade Afghanistan, and the other was to resist Cheney’s push to invade Iran.

Posted by: Glenn Contrarian at June 29, 2008 3:41 PM
Comment #257099

Glen

Even Bush did two right things - one was to invade Afghanistan, and the other was to resist Cheney’s push to invade Iran.

Bush still has plenty of time to invade Iran. So lets just give him credit for one thing right at this time.

Posted by: RickIL at June 29, 2008 3:50 PM
Comment #257106


Rowan: I love conspiracy theories but, there are so many real conspiracies about to be or being revealed that it’s hard to concentrate on the theories.

For instance, the Cheney-oil company conspiracy to take over Iraqi oil using the American people as patsies. This conspiracy began before 911, probably before Bush became president. We have seen the results of the conspiracy play out even if Cheney has been able to hide the details behind the wall of secrecy that the Bush Administration has used to hide their conduct on many issues.

Posted by: jlw at June 29, 2008 5:07 PM
Comment #257108

Whew…at least Rowan didn’t say Santa is a myth and I can rest easy about aliens from other planets invading us.

I wish Rowan would have listed “Global Cooling” in his list of lies so I could stop worrying about that.

Posted by: Jim M at June 29, 2008 5:21 PM
Comment #257116

Jack,
Let’s look at what’s possible. Let’s say a steel processing plant in China casted a slab of slag (like the slag heaps in Pittsburg). Let’s say a car parts manufacturing plant machined a set of brake rotors for export. Let’s say you bought these parts and installed them on your car. Let’s say that you applied the brakes and they failed, killing so many people. Let’s say that you want to sue, but The U.S. Chamber Institute for Tort Reform was successful at turning The Supreme Court into an enforcer for right wing philosophy, thereby negating an aspect of The Constitution (The right to petition the Government for redress of grievences). They would call it a frivolous lawsuit.
It has to happen to one personally before the program can be understood for what it is. Speaking of what’s personal and possible check out the July 7th issue of The Nation Magazine, page 9.

Posted by: Stephen Hines at June 29, 2008 6:51 PM
Comment #257122
Just because Wolf buys into the obviously false conspiracy theories such as….. and vaccines causing autism,

This is one theory that I’ve had more than casual interest in, and I wouldn’t be quite so fast to discount some of the discoveries and possibilities supporting it, Glen.

Posted by: janedoe at June 29, 2008 10:20 PM
Comment #257124

janedoe,

The science is clear. Vaccines do not cause autism.

Posted by: LawnBoy at June 29, 2008 10:42 PM
Comment #257129

It is NOT clear, LawnBoy, as shown in this more substantive report.

http://www.healing-arts.org/children/cdc.htm

Posted by: janedoe at June 30, 2008 12:53 AM
Comment #257130

I am glad that intelligent liberals and conservatives can come together on kicking down some of the more silly conspiracy theories.

We all know that a fool can ask more questions than any wise person can answer. Conspiracy theories are ways some people explain a world they cannot understand.

Science requires that you put forward and test your ideas. It is constantly changing and adapting to new information and new “truth”.

Much of on the admitted list is the result of this process. There is no conspiracy involved. Global warming, for example. When I was growing up, we worried about global COOLING. The science indicated this was not correct. Now science indicates that there is global warming. It is not something you admit. It is something you study and test. Re toxic waste – it depends on how you define them. The oil you spill from your car or the acid from a battery are toxic wastes. They are dangerous in quantity, but I would not worry too much about a little. Poison (toxic) is in the dosage. Science explains that. It cannot be “admitted”.

Saddam had weapons of mass destruction. It depends on what time period you are talking about.

Re agent orange – see above re dosage.

The problem with conspiracy theories is that the purveyors just don’t comprehend the world’s complexity and like sophomores who see that not everything is as black and white as they thought before childhood’s end, they see villains and conspiracy.

Most people grow out of them.

Posted by: Jack at June 30, 2008 12:56 AM
Comment #257138

Jack
We have both seen plenty of right wing conspiracy theories also. Whitewater,climate change is in reality just a liberal plot to strip the rights of 10 year olds to buy machine guns and force our daughters to marry black guys ad nauesium. No shortage of foolishness.Doesn’t say much for US critical thinking education.
Rowan did mention the Hersh report. This is serious and likely true. Hows it feel to support state sponsered terrorism?

Posted by: BillS at June 30, 2008 5:48 AM
Comment #257146

janedoe,

Using a site about “Alternative and Innovative Therapies” in an attempt to refute a scientific argument is laughable. You might as well be saying that the science is wrong because that’s what the Tarot cards told you.

How about listening to actual science and research when deciding how to take care of our children?

Here’s another skeptical analysis of the situation.

As I said, the science is clear. Unfortunately, the politics and hysteria are not.

Posted by: LawnBoy at June 30, 2008 8:10 AM
Comment #257151

Lawnboy

define actual science. Would that be like the science that gave us the most recent spat of drugs with side effects that can result in death. Frequently alternative and innovative therapies are healthier and less deadly for us than the so called “actual science” drugs. Because someone puts a label on something and calls it science does not mean that their research and study isn’t biased or just plain made up. Corporations will do anything to make a buck and IMO making up data and claiming “actual science” would not be out of their realm of evil.

Many countries use alternative therapies as well as “actual science” and have found them to be very benefical. The US is stuck in a vicious cycle created by corporations whose basic goal is to earn money by claiming that anything that isn’t “actual science” isn’t legitimate. This way corporations can corner the market and reap the benefits and we fall for it time and time again.

As for Autism-the verdict is still out. Having spent years working with children with Autism-I find this whole theory of an epidemic intersting. IMO there is no epidemic merely a change in the diagnostic criteria that now allows just about any child who is a little odd or different to be called autistic, also we are better at identifying autism (in the past many children with autism were identified as mentally retarded). I think the rate of autism is much lower than people think and I also think that if vaccinations were the cause that the rates of autism would be much higher than we presently think they are. but do i rule out vaccinations-no-because we still haven’t done a truly independent and unbiased study of the effects of vaccinations. Of course the companies producing vaccinations are going to tell us that they are harmless. IMO I think we will find there is no single cause for autism.

Jack and Jim

you accuse liberals of being depressed. That is interesting. I’m not sure whether I would prefer being depressed to being angry. IMO your posts here are consistently angry and uninformative as are most conservative posters. There is nothing better than a healthy debate but that is usually lacking from the right who seem most apt at expressing anger instead of legitimate, thoughtout disagreement.

Rowan

Although I do not yet agree with everything you posted, I certainly would not exclude anything from the realm of possibility. I LOVE my country but am not always proud of what we do. I do believe that all countries and governments have the potential to create evil and it is up to us the citizens to insure that doesn’t happen.

I do wish posters here would have spent more time indicating why they do not agree instead of just demeaning or making fun of the issues you raised.

Posted by: Carolina at June 30, 2008 9:15 AM
Comment #257152

Sorry guys I meant to say “I wish some posters here”…. I did not mean to make it sound as if all posters were demeaning and making fun. Isn’t it interesting how important a simple word can be.

Posted by: Carolina at June 30, 2008 9:21 AM
Comment #257155

BillS

I know. Lots of nuts on all sides.

What I think is very interesting is how they think they have some kind of inside information. Maybe that is the basis of conspiracy theory. It makes believers feel important.

Carolina

I almost never get angry. Life is easy for me and generally fun. The only time I can recall writing a post in anger was when we have a severe bout of America bashing. That pisses me off big time. Otherwise, I just enjoy making fun of liberals.

Re healthy debate, I usually am able to knock the opponents around pretty well w/o making any personal insults (that they can understand).

I have gotten knocked around myself on a couple occassions, but not on this subject.

Posted by: Jack at June 30, 2008 9:31 AM
Comment #257157
Frequently alternative and innovative therapies are healthier and less deadly for us than the so called “actual science” drugs.

Yes, and so is sugar water. That doesn’t mean that it’s acceptable to promote sugar water as a valid alternative to real therapies.

What you conveniently ignore is that in many cases alternative therapies are extremely dangerous and deadly, and in even more cases they cause significant harm by leading people to delay getting useful treatment.

Because someone puts a label on something and calls it science does not mean that their research and study isn’t biased or just plain made up.

You’re absolutely right. And knowing how science works and what medical research really consists of is why I reject janedoe’s claim. Just because the link looked like science doesn’t mean it’s valid.

As for Autism-the verdict is still out.

For politicians and celebrities, perhaps. For the science? Nope. When you say “we still haven’t done a truly independent and unbiased study of the effects of vaccinations,” you are rejecting many studies out of hand. Why? On what grounds do you reject what the CDC’s studies have shown? The CDC isn’t a money-grubbing pharmaceutical company, but you reject their research anyway.

Posted by: LawnBoy at June 30, 2008 9:50 AM
Comment #257158

Jack

denial is a wonderful thing-isn’t it

Lawnboy

must be nice to be so sure about everything. Life must be grand in the land of black and white.

Posted by: Carolina at June 30, 2008 9:54 AM
Comment #257160

jack and lawnboy

my apologizes-for my responses-I just did what I have accused others of doing

jack-I really can’t respond to your post-as I don’t know you as a person and am only familiar with your posts.

Lawnboy-I feel that we are at a place to agree to disagree-I have stated how I feel as have you. The only thing I might add is that no I don’t trust the CDC anymore than I would trust any other government agencies. That is too say that it has some good information and research but some of it IMO is inaccurate and is based on misinformation and poor research.

Posted by: Carolina at June 30, 2008 10:06 AM
Comment #257161
must be nice to be so sure about everything. Life must be grand in the land of black and white.

When I ask you on what grounds you reject scientific studies, you respond with ridicule. Why? Why not just answer the question?

I’m very much not sure of everything. However, I am sure that scientific and medical claims should be supportable by evidence - too much harm comes otherwise.

Evidence-based skepticism is a good thing - check it out.

Posted by: LawnBoy at June 30, 2008 10:07 AM
Comment #257165

I have only one question. If I believe in conspiracy theories do I get to kiss Julia Roberts?

Welcome back Watchblog!!

Posted by: googlumpugus at July 26, 2008 1:07 PM
Comment #257166

OMG, I scrapped the notes that I had made before, thinking this site would never come back, and went back to writings in the forums at televisionwithoutpity. It was a nice vacation from politics. On conspiracy theories, we are fighting a war in Afghanistan, but not eradicating the poppy fields and marijuana forests. In fact, we pretend that the drug trade isn’t even an issue there. Whose side are we on anyway? It would be nice if we were on our own side, instead of the Mena airport drug supplying Bush LeBlond conspiracy.

Posted by: ohrealy at July 26, 2008 1:19 PM
Comment #257174

Welcome Back

Posted by: Cube at July 26, 2008 3:27 PM
Comment #257181

Welcome back all!!!

Rowan:
As part of your list of lies that the government has told you included swept wing stealth aircraft, black helicopters and weapons technology in the upper atmosphere. Sir, my question to you is simply should our country be forced to reveal the capabilities of every weapon we have and in what area we are researching? Are you allowing the possibility that there needs to be some secrets for national security? Please keep in mind that these weapons programs are funded and overseen by the ranking members of both parties of Congress. Now I am aware and worry as much as anyone about the abuses of power for national security rasons, but these lies,IMHO, are legitimate to tell and should not in any way be used to base conspiracy theories upon.

BillS:

Destabilizing hostile nations is what every state attempts, if it has the means. From a cost benefit standpoint, it may be well worth the risk. A state may accomplish a desired result with a minimal risk. “Hows it feel to support state sponsered terrorism?” As long as it is done within the laws of the United States, it feels damn good to support our troops.

Carolina:

Your first two paragraphs in response to lawnboy are excellent and I agree with your sentiment. I would like to add that IMHO “science” has been thouroughly corrupted by both corporations AND government funding. To illustrate my point I offer this:

You said, “Corporations will do anything to make a buck and IMO making up data and claiming “actual science” would not be out of their realm of evil.”. IMHO funding for grants is a big a buisness as lets say “big tobacco” was. Competition for grant money at least skews and at most totally predetermines the outcome of the studies for “global warming”, excavation in archeology and the addiction properties of nicotene. I ask you to consider what would happen to a scientist that conducts an honest study that concludes that “global warming” is not man made or that human cells and systems are to complicated to have evolved from rain on a rock. Would their findings be studied ernestly, disputed only by an honest discussion of proven facts, or would they suffer ad homeinem attacks? Would you consider the “carbon credit” industry in the same light as “big oil” as far as corrupting the “science” for monetary gain?

Please accept my questions as rhetorical in nature intended to give you food for thought, but I am willing to discuss them. I am often wrong, but I am never in doubt. Very, very nice post.

All:

I have studied several conspiracy theory from Roswell to the moon landing. They are fun to read about. The thing that strikes me most is that you learn more about the authors’ beliefs that the actual facts of events. It is just my opinion.

Posted by: submarinesforever at July 26, 2008 9:58 PM
Comment #257212

submarinesforever -

My point with stealth aircraft et al was not that it may be necessary from time to time for state secrets. My point was how rapidly and old the “conspiracy theory” accusation gets thrown out. My point was that just because there are official denials does not mean that something is not true. Further, just because something is considered a state secret does not mean that it should be. “Secret” intervention into the political processes of other countries for example, damage us and our nation in the long run.

Posted by: rowan at July 27, 2008 8:37 PM
Comment #257219

Rowan:

My apologies. I assumed a different intent and let that and my own prejudices skew my interpretation of your article. I do however feel that in some cases intervention to destabelize countries has a cost and benefit that is far better than doing nothing.

Posted by: submarinesforever at July 28, 2008 5:35 AM
Comment #257220

submarinesforever,

“I do however feel that in some cases intervention to destabilize countries has a cost and benefit that is far better than doing nothing.”

Unfortunately the benefits of such interventions are, by their very nature, unpredictable, and if not planned properly can lead to more odious things.
Such was the case when the CIA helped to put Saddam in power in Iraq, and the Shah in power in Iran.
Nobody can predict the future, and sometimes such things can come back to bite you in the ass.

Rocky

Posted by: Rocky Marks at July 28, 2008 6:12 AM
Comment #257232

submarinesforever

I started out with a very lengthy reply but went back and reread what you posted and decided that my response was much to long and rambling.

So my shorter reply: Since I am suspicious of gov’t, corporations, universities, think tanks, and so forth-I would not be surprised and am not surprised by the culpabilty of anyone trying to fool the American people for monetary gain. When the carbon industry is as politically and economically as strong as the oil industry then I think we need to worry. I agree that any scientist swimming against the tide will have an uphill battle. For me the best I can do is try and research and stay on top of the current information and then make a decision based on my belief system. I do not trust the left anymore than I trust the right. I just happen to agree more with what the left stands for.

I do not have much faith in anything and believe that if there is a buck to be made that most people will sell their souls. That is why there are too few whistle blowers.

Posted by: Carolina at July 28, 2008 9:11 AM
Comment #257244

Rowan:
I’m with you and your views.
Nothing worse than conflating love of country with love of its government.
Our government over more than 200 years has done many, many awful things that took and ruined the lives of innnocent people, from American Indians to the people in Iraq.
There simply is no reasonable or logical basis to trust politicians or the government they control.

Posted by: Joel S. Hirschhorn at July 28, 2008 2:10 PM
Comment #257277

Rowan,

You asked for us to add to your lists, and, unfortunately, the debate here has not added anything. Your lists have only been belittled. Therefore, as per your request, I shall add to those lists.

Admitted lies:

A couple of months in the Senate is enough experience to become POTUS.

The earth has been in a cooling trend for the last six years and has dropped .6 degrees globally(Oh wait! Ignore that. That’s a fact.).

The combatants at Gitmo are innocent, and, even though they belong to no recognized army, they fall under the Geneva Treaty.

America is not safer from terrorism today than 9/11.

American troops are criminals (Murtha).

The war in Iraq is lost (Reed).

The “surge” is a failure (Pelosi).

Iraq was better off under Saddam.

We can afford Socialized Medicine.

The figure, 43 million uninsured, does not include illegals.

Drilling offshore and in the ANWR and extracting oil from oil shale will not help gas prices for 5 to 10 years.

Congress has been working continually since the gas shortages of 1973 to help the US become independent of foreign oil.

The choices for POTUS in this election is not a choice between a liberal and a Marxist (or would that go under UNadmitted lies?).

Closing our Southern border by a virtual or real fence would not staunch the flow of illegals, drugs, guns and terrorists into this country.

Congress actually cares about saddling our next generations with an insurmountable national debt.

94% of the bills passed by the Senate of the 110th Congress passed with NO debate and NO vote (Oh, wait. That should be listed under Admitted Truths).

Our government schools, run by the teachers unions, are the best in this part of the galaxy, while any other type of school is evil and run by Satan and if you send your child to one of these schools will result in your child burning in hell forever…AND being stupid.


I could go on forever, but I won’t for obvious reasons…


UNadmitted lies:

Space aliens, Roswell, JFK…RFK…MLK…Malcom X conspiracies, Area 51, Illuminati, New World Order, blah, blah, blah, yakkity yak.

Posted by: Jim T at July 29, 2008 4:29 PM
Comment #257279

Ted Stevens, the most senior Rpblcn in the Senate, just got indicted on 7 charges of false statements because of payments by members of the oil industry. Conspiracy or reality?

Posted by: ohrealy at July 29, 2008 4:47 PM
Comment #257284

ohrealy,

Hey…it’s Congress, who, by definition, conspire to be real…when the reality is that, with a 9% approval rating, they are superfluous to the entire process…and that they represent “We The People” is another UNadmitted lie.

V.O.I.D.

Posted by: Jim T at July 29, 2008 6:04 PM
Comment #257287

Jim T, like most people, I actually like my Congressperson, Jan Shakowsky, antagonist to Blackwater, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efuV8eqclD8 and was surprised that she had primary opposition this year. I’m more likely to lose her from redistricting after the next census, than from a movement to vote out incumbents. If BHO is elected to higher office, she intends to run for his seat, although our crooked governor can appoint himself, and many of her supporters don’t like the idea of her having anything to do with making a deal with Blagoyevich.

Posted by: ohrealy at July 29, 2008 6:58 PM
Comment #257312

ohrealy,

Yep, she is against Blackwater and so is BHO. But he ought to be more circumspect when he criticizes them. Why?

Here’s why. Just guess who got the gig securing Obama in Afghanistan?

What a HOOT!!!

Posted by: Jim T at July 30, 2008 11:14 AM
Comment #257335

Jim T, I haven’t found any confirmation yet on your link to a comment in a forum. My problem with Blackwater concerns whether or not they exist to provide a less ethnic security force than would be provided by the U.S. Armed Forces. Here are BHO’s actual comments from a while back: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkLAXgv9SMw

Posted by: ohrealy at July 30, 2008 7:04 PM
Comment #257341

Jim T, this guy, Jeremy Scahill, is where we get most of our stuff on Blackwater from, I guess you could say he wrote the book on Blackwater:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuQq70QSMi4

Posted by: ohrealy at July 30, 2008 7:49 PM
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