Democrats & Liberals Archives

Wright Boosts Obama

I know the conventional wisdom is that Rev. Jeremiah Wright has damaged Obama as a candidate for the presidency. The outrageous statements of Wright can be found by anyone merely by turning on the TV - any station, day or night! As the saying goes, Wright threw Obama under the bus. How can Wright’s actions do anything but hurt Obama?

After Wright made scalding statements about the U.S., Obama separated himself from the statements, but refused to completely disown Wright whom he considers to be like family. Since then he has been attacked from both the left and the right. Everybody thinks that he should damn both the statements and the man.

For awhile Wright was silent. In the last few days he has spoken out. Every time he speaks he makes more outrageous statements than before. Obama has answered as forcefully as he could:

What Rev. Wright said yesterday directly contradicts everything I've done during my life. It contradicts how I was raised and the setting in which I was raised, it contradicts the issues that I've worked on, it contradicts what I've written in my books...it contradicts everything I've been saying on this campaign trail.

This is obviously true. If you have heard Obama speak you know that what he's saying is true. Both McCain and Clinton, his opponents, know this is true. But the attacks continue. Here is what Jonah Goldberg said today:

To cap it off, Wright threw Obama under the bus. First, the pastor explained, Obama himself had taken Wright out of context. Moreover, Obama neither denounced nor distanced himself from Wright. And, besides, anything that Obama says on such matters is just stuff "politicians say." They "do what they do based on electability, based on sound bites, based on polls." So much for Obama's new politics.

Unwittingly Goldberg is praising Obama. When he says "So much for Obama's new politics" he is implying that Obama's "new politics" is better than the old politics that HE IS USING IN HIS ARTICLE. If a die- hard conservative such as Goldberg sees the difference and approves - reluctantly, of course - other people will eventually see it as well.

All Obama has to do now is be himself and follow his "new politics" of honesty. respect and inclusion. It may take time, but once people see the difference between Obama's politics and the character-assassination politics we have today, Obama will get the votes.

I echo the conservative Andrew Sullivan:

And today, we found that he can fight back, and take a stand, without calculation and in what is clearly a great amount of personal difficulty and political pain. It's what anyone should want in a president. It makes me want to see him succeed more than ever. It's why this country needs to see him succeed more than ever.

Rev. Wright did not realize that he was boosting Obama. He and everybody else thought that he was hurting Obama. This so-called problem will eventually be recognized as a gift from Wright to Obama.

Posted by Paul Siegel at April 29, 2008 6:11 PM
Comments
Comment #251729

Paul, you have earned the Clinton “Spinmiester” award for your column. Hurrah for the Rev. and let us hope he keeps talking so the Obamawan can win in a landslide.

Question; who or what will Obama disavow next when it becomes politically expedient?

Posted by: Jim M at April 29, 2008 7:44 PM
Comment #251731

What I want to know is why are we still talking about this? Didn’t all you libbies (including Paul) blather on and on about how much of a non-issue this whole Rev Wrong thing was? Of course the free thinkers on the Right were not so easily convinced - and rightly so.

Prediction: The leftist mediots will now come out in full force against Rev Wright, labeling him in much of the same way that those of us on the right did (race baiter, unpatriotic…etc)

This blog proves to me that the Obama fanatics are truely running scared now, especially with the latest HRC win and an apparent tie in Indiana.

Anyones race now. I just hope the mud flinging from the left won’t stop until November.

b0mbay

Posted by: b0mbay at April 29, 2008 8:03 PM
Comment #251732

Paul, I would love to agree with you but I can’t. I think you are wishful thinking. I don’t see this helping Barack at all. I do think he is a politician and is doing the political thing. I have never thought that he was the great savior that so many people thought he was. I also think that he has had an easy go of it and was the media darling for a long time. As usual the media has now tired of him and it is open session on Barack just as it has been on Hillary for most of the campaign.

I for one would love to think this is somehow going to help him but I think not. I just hope it doesn’t do too much damage because I do believe he will be the nominee anyway and I really DO NOT want McCain to win.

Doc-as far as your post-interesting slant-I really don’t care what his half-sister said. I think we all know that Barack has had an interesting upbringing and spent sometime with his muslim family. I have never heard him deny that. He has spent more years as a christian. He has not slandered his grandmother. You have been listening to conservative commentators to long and have begun to believe the half truths they flood the so called “liberal” airwaves with.

Jim yours is just more of the same.

Posted by: Carolina at April 29, 2008 8:09 PM
Comment #251733

Paul:

I can understand your reasons for this article. You have very high hopes for Obama. you have supported him all along from what I can remember.

I think many miss the main point of Obama.

Obama is simply liberal. I don’t use that term as a dirty four letter word or an accusation. It simply means that he is far to the left of where most voters are.

Guess what happens with people at the far right or left? They associate with some of our more colorful (no race reference intended) Americans.

This is who Obama is. He associated in this church for 20 years. Obama seems like a nice enough person, and is truely sincere. I think Democrats should take the good with the bad.

I am certain there will be more of this type of situation. Let me give you an example. Obviously in 20 years they have made friends in this church. At least that would be considered normal. Rev. Wright certainly would attract some of the more militant black liberation theologians.

Just take the good with the bad!! It’s going to be interesting going forward.

Posted by: Craig Holmes at April 29, 2008 8:21 PM
Comment #251738

Oh my goodness! Politics and religion getting all mixed up together! What a mess! How awful would it be for Obama to say that the main character in the New Testament was trying to promte something along the lines of everybody being brothers and sisters and mothers and promoting some kind of state of mind along the lines of love? LOVE? Are you kidding? Family values by not tossing someone under the bus? Forgiveness? For what? How about demanding an apology from the right wing spin machine? How about us who believe in social justice to quit dancing to the right wing? Doe-see-doe Hillary. We see how tough you are. Bush is only yakkity-yak about tactical nukes but you are offering to OBLITERATE. Way tougher than those schoolyard psycho bullies. Woah, I’m so impressed.

Posted by: Stephen Hines at April 29, 2008 8:58 PM
Comment #251739

It looks like Paul and Jack are racing to put articles out on the same topics. Dr Hubert, Lt Col, USAF Retired (2005), you should get together with Dr. Rene, USAF Retired, Recently. Your posts are so similar, you could almost be the same person.

Carolina, the first thing that occurred to me was that BHO and Wright might be synchronizing, but I don’t think so now. Some of the early resentment for BHO in the black community came from the fact that some of his earliest supporters were Jewish, referred to as the Hyde Park mafia, and resentment of his associations with people who are knocking down low cost housing for gentrification.

This is just the beginning of his problems. Much more to come later. I’m a little worried that he might end up resigning his Senate seat and give up altogether. I have come to the conclusion that, like Taft, BHO wants the presidency, to help him end up as Chief Justice of the SCOTUS.

Posted by: ohrealy at April 29, 2008 9:19 PM
Comment #251741

Carolina:

YOu seem so well intentioned. I am a Mccain supporter, but I have to wonder how people like you are doing. Here you support a man for I assume the best of reasons, only to see him eaten by his own. You look at what Hillary and Rev Wright have done, and it really gives pause. I have never seen anything like this in Presidential politics.

This looks like a full fledged Democratic food fight. It just has to tear apart well meaning average Democratic folks. I thought this campaign was going to be a cake walk for you guys. Now it looks sort of even to me.

Self inflicted wounds!!!

Posted by: Craig Holmes at April 29, 2008 10:08 PM
Comment #251751

Ohrealy

I will go back to kicking Obama in the keister tomorrow. He did the right thing today.

I consider the Obama captitulation a very important victory for liberty. He denounced all that crap people like Wright have been selling. You and I cannot do it. Obama can and he did. The liberals will never again be able to play the race card with as much gusto. Obama has proclaimed that the emperor has no clothes. I am willing to let him off the partisan hook in return for service he has done America, at least for today.

Remember when Bill Clinton pulled the supports out from under affirmative action? He did it when he proclaimed that he wanted his cabinet to “look like America.” In that short sentence, he stripped away the moral justification in favor of color matching, much like you might do with living room furniture. That gave everyone the opportunity to oppose AA w/o being called a racist (at least not as often) and we have started to beat back that abomination.

Do not discount the power of an idea. Obama has opened a gate that we can all stream through.

Posted by: Jack at April 29, 2008 11:43 PM
Comment #251754

Jack, I don’t see how BHO is opposing the affirmative action that has gotten him to where he is today. In fact he wants more of it, more unearned delegates in FL and MI.

On Rev Wright, I don’t think a short BHO speech will do much about the kind of pandering that has gone on for so many years. What you might not be getting is that Wright is telling his congregation what they want to hear. It’s like something by Joel Chandler Harris. Some people want to be foreigners in their own country.

Posted by: ohrealy at April 30, 2008 12:58 AM
Comment #251755

Two words come to mind:

President McCain!

We’re done, cooked, fried! Forget about it!

Posted by: KansasDem at April 30, 2008 1:31 AM
Comment #251761

Obama’s chickens have come home to roost! He couldn’t expect to pander to the likes of Reverend America Hater without suffering some repercussions.

I do agree with Jack tho. Reverend Wright succeeded in alienating and offending everone except the mindless scum who go to his church and espouse his hate filled sermons. I’m sure according to Reverend Wright that souls have colors too. I’m sure heaven discriminates too.

Posted by: b0mbay at April 30, 2008 3:11 AM
Comment #251762

Craig

and you think that if McCain had some stiff competition at this point that they would not be going at it tooth and nail. Its called politics and its the way the game is played.

I will always prefer a democrat over a republican as long as democrats continue to stand up for EVERY one not just the ones with the biggest pocketbooks. IMO a young inexperienced democrat is preferable to a warmongering republican.

Posted by: Carolina at April 30, 2008 7:56 AM
Comment #251764

Carolina

You know the statistic. Half of all Americans make below the median income. That also means that half make above and the upper 20% make in the top fifth. These are all tautologies that show that it is impossible to stand up for all Americans if you plan to redistribute wealth from some to others.

Beyond that - and what Dems don’t seem to understand - is that many people make different incomes throughout their lives. I have occupied all five quintiles of income and expect to change again. There is often no point to “stand up” agaist the guy with the “big pocketbook”. In the course of a regualar life many of us get to be the guy with the big pocketbook and the one with the small ones too.

Posted by: Jack at April 30, 2008 8:20 AM
Comment #251773

Carolina:

Of course you do, you are a Democrat!! Pardon me if I don’t accept “warmongering” as the world I would use in front of McCain. He is proposing the same ending for Iraq that Truman used after WWII. (Germany, Japan, etc). And the one Clinton enforced but didn’t start in Kuwait. McCain wants the generals on the ground to choose our withdrawal rate and leave some troops there permanatly which is our American way of doing things.

I think I would add “Liberal” to your inexperienced words about Obama. Not as a four letter bad word, but rather discriptive. People on the far left and far right have “interesting” friends. I expect to see more of these more “interesting” citizens continue to crop up during the rest of the campaign.

It wont be boring, that is for sure.

Thank you for responding.

Posted by: Craig Holmes at April 30, 2008 11:54 AM
Comment #251780

Paul, I’m not feeling ya, dude.

It looks a bit odd that Obama just now figured out Wright’s positions. It’s inconvenient to explain nutcases, we all have them around us and we all tolerate them, but I guess he decided, that won’t sell.

Posted by: googlumpus at April 30, 2008 1:31 PM
Comment #251784

Craig Holmes-
You know, the trick is, he proposes this ending to a war that not only we haven’t won, but are no longer interested in perpetuating, one most people have written off.

So what does he do to get the ending he wants? This sounds pretty much like Nixon saying he wants out of the war, but wants peace with honor. I think Americans, if presented with this directly, would see right through it.

Right now, the Republicans are crowing about how bad things are for the Democrats. However, they’re failing to realize that they’re largely benefiting from the lack of direct confrontation.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at April 30, 2008 2:11 PM
Comment #251786

there will come a time in the not so distant future-it is just around the corner-that you will no longer be able to use the word “liberal” to insite the fear that repubs once insited. That word no longer holds the power it use to hold and I for one am proud to be liberal and ALL it stands for. As soon as middle America tires of dirty tricks, tires of constant attempts to scare them, and tires of voting against their own best interests, we will rise from the ashes and proudly hold up the “liberal” mantle and will then do to the word “conservative” that which has been done to liberals. As more and more young people register to vote as democrats, as more and more young people learn what has been done to us by the so called religious right, conservatives and compassionate conservatives (whatever that is)the more power we(liberals) will gain. Be afraid be very afraid because I our day is coming.

Posted by: Carolina at April 30, 2008 2:31 PM
Comment #251798

We are afraid Carolina, very very afraid. You see, some of us cherish the US Constitution and the rights and freedoms it gives us so much, that we actually do fear the liberal takeover of our country. We fear unconstitutional liberalism so much, we vote by the millions to keep it from ruling our lives.
We prefer to run our own lives and live according to what we, not you, think is the best way to live.

Granted, more and more young people are being trained in school to give up their rights and vote liberal, thankfully, it is them or their children who will be enslaved by liberalism, not me and hopefully not my kids. I have taught them to cherish their Constitutional rights and I have taught them something liberals can’t stand: they must question everything.

“learn what has been done to us by the so called religious right, conservatives and compassionate conservatives”

So what exactly has been done to us? I’m an atheist and I would love to know about the religious wrongs being done to us.
As far as conservatives and Republicans, while McCain would be a waste of time, an Obama or hillary win will be devestating to our country, our rights and our way of life.

Posted by: kctim at April 30, 2008 5:15 PM
Comment #251801

Carolina:

I am not using it to create fear. It is discriptive. It is what Obama is. He is for a specific list of belief’s and policies that are liberal.

Where I think liberals go wrong is in hiding from it. Then when they are “exposed” it looks like they have been hiding something.

Obama is for higher taxes, a more expansive role of federal government. He opposes free trade. And on and on.

Posted by: Craig Holmes at April 30, 2008 5:31 PM
Comment #251804

Stephen:

So what does he do to get the ending he wants? This sounds pretty much like Nixon saying he wants out of the war, but wants peace with honor. I think Americans, if presented with this directly, would see right through it.

As a country we deployed over 200,000 troops in Germany alone each year for over 40 years. (1955 to 1995) even with our current troop strenght in Iraq the number of Americans serving overseas is lower than the average of the last half of the last century.

Our military is much smaller now than it was pre 1995. Our military spending per GDP is also much lower than has been our history since becomeing a super power.

My answer to your question is to finish Iraq the way Truman finished Germany and Japan.

Sounds like it worked then.

Posted by: Craig Holmes at April 30, 2008 5:50 PM
Comment #251832

“You see, some of us cherish the US Constitution and the rights and freedoms it gives us so much, that we actually do fear the liberal takeover of our country.”

Yet while we claim to do this we vote in the likes of the repubs such as Bush/Cheney and the illustrious leaders of the 109th congress to give us such ridicuous things as the patriot act, habeus corpus is not in the constitution, torture is ok and we despertely need a flag burning law. e think its great that the government spy on us as long as they tell us its the terrorist.

“We prefer to run our own lives and live according to what we, not you, think is the best way to live.”

Oh and we prefer to run yours to, well at least part of it. Aterall what you do in your bedroom is conservative business, and the only way we can tell if your patriotic is if you wear a lapel pin. And while we are on the subject us cons like to run your infrastructure into the ground so we can cut taxes and borrow money.

“Granted, more and more young people are being trained in school to give up their rights and vote liberal, thankfully, it is them or their children who will be enslaved by liberalism, not me and hopefully not my kids.”

Well at least that is the nonsense us conservatives listen to on talk radio and fall for, without questioning a thing. Afterall if rush says it it must be true. Speaking of enslavement we did vote to borrow from your kids to fund our silly debacle and then cut taxes on us high income guys, but hey thats not enslavement is it?

“So what exactly has been done to us? I’m an atheist and I would love to know about the religious wrongs being done to us.”

right I know you said “learn what has been done to us by the so called religious right, conservatives and compassionate conservatives” so us conservatives had to narrow it down to religious wrongs because us cons just have to twist things to justify our positions on these things. We dont want you talking about the real issues so we make this kind of crap up.

Posted by: j2t2 at May 1, 2008 12:37 AM
Comment #251858

J2
“Yet while we claim to do this we vote in the likes of the repubs such as Bush/Cheney “

If the Dems would listen to us, they would understand why we will vote for someone like Bush over a liberal like gore and kerry.
The average joe doesn’t care much about the patriot acts, but if it would have been gore passing it, you guys would have been quiet and the right would be up in arms.
Torture of the enemy in order to protect the US and its people? Sure.
Flag burning law? Eh, some of us love our country and its symbols that much, its not a crime to love her, yet. Besides, it was proposed, not passed, so a flag burning law is no proof of the liberals being abused.
Spying? Yeah, that one pisses me off too, its no different than the anti 2nd Amendment crap, based on crap.

I am a huge supporter of gay marriage, so I understand the point you are trying to make, but you forget something very important: the overwhelming majority of Obamas main supporters, the black community, voted to ban gay marriage. That is not a conservative vs liberal issue.
Lapel pin? Again, we love our country and its symbols. That is something easily understood, so I have no idea why somebody would ignore that and choose to not take that into account. As Craig says, that is an issue you guys could have avoided.

Schooling? I don’t listen to those people. I now have children in those public camps, their choice, and witness what goes on myself. You agree with what is taught there, I question most of what is taught, that tells you which way their teaching leans.

Um, yes, you guys did vote to go into Iraq and by doing so, it has to be funded. You all are in control now, why haven’t you stopped all funding of this “silly debacle?” Uh huh.
Taxes? Come on, the only taxes the average joe cares about are the ones that have a direct impact on his wallet. We are overtaxed now in order to fund liberal feel good programs and our children will be even more so. I hope that 4 hour wait to see the doctor is worth it to them. Ha!

Twist things? Narrow it down? Hell, I thought I was giving some slack by just asking about one. Guess I picked the hard one, huh? Sorry about that.

“We dont want you talking about the real issues so we make this kind of crap up”

The real issues are the point J2. The issues you get riled over, are different than the ones I get riled over. We disagree with the liberal agenda, so we are told we are making things up or that our concerns are silly. That way of thinking didn’t help when you pushed gore and kerry on us, but, who knows, maybe it will with Obama. Just have to wait and see.

The Dem party should already have this election all wrapped up and you guys should be measuring for drapes in the White House. All the Democrats had to do was to give us a Democrat to vote for and this wouldn’t even be close. Instead, we get one of the most liberal candidates you could find and now its close.
Let me guess, thats Bushs’ fault too huh.

Posted by: kctim at May 1, 2008 10:34 AM
Comment #251917

“If the Dems would listen to us, they would understand why we will vote for someone like Bush over a liberal like gore and kerry.”

Thats all well and good kctim but with words like “You see, some of us cherish the US Constitution and the rights and freedoms it gives us so much, that we actually do fear the liberal takeover of our country.” it seems eventually you would get your head out of the kool aid jar and actually vote for what you say you cherish.


“The average joe doesn’t care much about the patriot acts, but if it would have been gore passing it, you guys would have been quiet and the right would be up in arms.”

Then why the prattle about cherishing your rights yadayadayada? If your as keen on the constitution and your rights as you say you are what difference does it make whether it was Bush or Gore? Bob Barr was as offended as any body, did he forget to drink the idelogical koolaid at the last movement meeting?

“Torture of the enemy in order to protect the US and its people? Sure.”
Boy Im glad I dont live in that state of fear. Seems our enemy is calling the shots and we just fall in line thanks to our poor repub leaderdship. Why wasnt it our official policy in WWII if it is such a good idea? Well its because it is the act of a desperate leadership and it puts us in the same league as Pol pot, Hitler et al. As for me I do love my country and this is the wrong road to travel down. Keep drinking the kool aid though kctim.

“Flag burning law? Eh, some of us love our country and its symbols that much, its not a crime to love her, yet. Besides, it was proposed, not passed, so a flag burning law is no proof of the liberals being abused.”

Not some of us, All of us love our country kctim its just that some of us think that free speech is one of the reasons to love this country. Actually it was an amendment to the constitution kctim not a law that didnt pass. Abuse of liberals is not the isuue here kctim. Can you remember the last time someone in this country publically burnd an American flag? The repub lead 109th was worthless. With all the issues to deal with this had to be so far down the line as to be absurd.


“spying? Yeah, that one pisses me off too, its no different than the anti 2nd Amendment crap, based on crap.”
Yet those that supposedly are the protectors of our constitutional rights continue to vote for the repubs . Talk is cheap.

I am a huge supporter of gay marriage, so I understand the point you are trying to make, but you forget something very important: the overwhelming majority of Obamas main supporters, the black community, voted to ban gay marriage. That is not a conservative vs liberal issue.

Not just gay marriage kctim your religious right friends want to restrict many other rights as they continue their push towards a theocracy.


“Lapel pin? Again, we love our country and its symbols. That is something easily understood, so I have no idea why somebody would ignore that and choose to not take that into account. As Craig says, that is an issue you guys could have avoided.”

I to love my country I just dont need a cheap chinese made lapel pin to prove it. In fact one of the main reasons I love this country is because I dont have to wear a loyalty badge to prove my allegiance. Besides those that claim the lapel pin as their proof are usually the talk radio conservative McCarthy types of people I deem to be false patriots and I just dont want to be mistaken for one of them. What next guys a loyalty oath?

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/02/29/BAQPVAUVO.DTL

Schooling? I don’t listen to those people. I now have children in those public camps, their choice, and witness what goes on myself. You agree with what is taught there, I question most of what is taught, that tells you which way their teaching leans.

Well what I agree with is that we as a country need a public school system. This constant tearing at the fabric of our school system by the far right is damaging our country. I dont understand what your beef is with what is taught nor do I see why you blame all of the problems with public schools on the “liberals”.


“Um, yes, you guys did vote to go into Iraq and by doing so, it has to be funded. You all are in control now, why haven’t you stopped all funding of this “silly debacle?” Uh huh.

In charge doesnt mean enough votes to stop the funding, remember its even in the senate and a slight majority in the house. Besides your guys have made such a mess that it will take some time to do the right thing.

“Taxes? Come on, the only taxes the average joe cares about are the ones that have a direct impact on his wallet. We are overtaxed now in order to fund liberal feel good programs and our children will be even more so. I hope that 4 hour wait to see the doctor is worth it to them. Ha!”

Then why make up silly names like the death tax and let the rich .5% that pay it hide behind the foolish average conservatives rhetoric. Overtaxed according to what? Why do you think its all the liberals kctim. Wht not cut military spending? We spend more on military than the rest of the world. Come on being an average guy myself I often wonder why we think we need to rule the world. To stop the mandated programs is ridiculous at this stage as we have been paying into them for years. 4 hours to see the doctor? thats not average guy talk kctim thats average far right extremist talk. what a joke. Its propaganda and you know it. You know for someone thats so against taxes why arent you in a tizzy over cutting taxes and then borrowing for the occupation in Iraq? why arent you blaming the cons for that added burden on our kids and grandkids.

“Twist things? Narrow it down? Hell, I thought I was giving some slack by just asking about one. Guess I picked the hard one, huh? Sorry about that.”

Not the hard one kctim the one Caroline didnt mention, the strawman you put up instead.

“We dont want you talking about the real issues so we make this kind of crap up”

“The real issues are the point J2. The issues you get riled over, are different than the ones I get riled over. We disagree with the liberal agenda, so we are told we are making things up or that our concerns are silly.”

Silly you mean the flag burning amendment to the constitution although no one has burned a flag in decades, that kind of silly? Well lets not balance the budget or get out of Iraq lets just continue with the destruction of the government so we can be ruled by a corpocracy. Silly is as silly does.


“That way of thinking didn’t help when you pushed gore and kerry on us, but, who knows, maybe it will with Obama. Just have to wait and see.”

Right how could they compare to Bush what a sick joke kctim. How much more pathetic could it be?


The Dem party should already have this election all wrapped up and you guys should be measuring for drapes in the White House. All the Democrats had to do was to give us a Democrat to vote for and this wouldn’t even be close. Instead, we get one of the most liberal candidates you could find and now its close.
Let me guess, thats Bushs’ fault too huh.

As if you would vote for a democrat. Get real kctim.

Posted by: j2t2 at May 2, 2008 12:24 AM
Comment #251920

I would like the govt being more involved—-in looking at other countries where the govt and not corportations, run health care, university education, retirement and in our own libraries, police and fire, and education——the institutions are not run by profit—-and at their best, do a great job. it is not perfect….but at least motives are more pure than corp, who like the oil companies now, are the only group in the world making billions in profits…..I trust he govt agencies, when run apolitically and not along party lines, much more than corporations……so if that makes me a liberal…..yay liberalism! I would rather pay high taxes and know that I don’t have to worry about health care, retirement, choosing between medicine and food, having my kids college or special needs schools paid for, etc. I would gladly give more money to the gov’t for that kind of security.

I also wonder why no one talks about billy graham and his comments for years about jews or all the conservative spiritual advisors to politicans who called 9/11 a spiritual punishment for AIDs and homosexuality and a country that allows abortion? My guess is that Rev Wright made some comments for years that seemed to be his “thing” and that compared to the good work he did and focused on in the community they seemed like sort of a side issue to the work he was doing in the community. From what I have heard, this was/is a huge church where white folkes attended as well——not esp liberal—-but very activist—-and often many preachers, ministers, rabbis, etc are very activist but when they are inspiring (in a spiritual and community activist way) and are very involved in good works, many in the congregation who feel strong in their own beliefs find a way to ignore the fringe beliefs of their pastors and unless this is an on-going, weekly sermon, just don’t hear those words when they might rarely come up and focus on the good works.

I think we are not ready for Obama—-he is a real consensus builder, he is a big picture guy—a process leader and not into the details. He can see the big picture (unlike our current Pres who can barely see the details either). He probably has some skeletons in the closet (who doesn’t—look at whitewater and foster and all the affairs that clinton had to deal with). I wish Obama would make one of his wonderful speeches or have a really heart to heart interview to put this all behind us, like bill did with jennifer flowers……………….

Posted by: judyelh at May 2, 2008 8:00 AM
Comment #251933

Judyelh said, “I would rather pay high taxes and know that I don’t have to worry about health care, retirement, choosing between medicine and food, having my kids college or special needs schools paid for, etc. I would gladly give more money to the gov’t for that kind of security.”

I wonder what you mean by this statement. Should everyone’s taxes be increased equally, by the same percentage? Or, should the “wealthy” pay a higher percentage of their earnings?

And, do you believe you will pay more or less in taxes, yourself, than the benefits received by you? In other words, are you advocating more taxes than benefits for yourself, or more benefits than taxes for yourself.

If the former, you are an exceptionally charitable person, if the latter, you are looking for another hand-out paid for by someone else.

Have you considered using your own earnings to accomplish these means. If not, why not?

Posted by: Jim M at May 2, 2008 11:38 AM
Comment #251934

J2
“it seems eventually you would get your head out of the kool aid jar and actually vote for what you say you cherish.”

I personally do vote for the candidate who believes most in the Constitution, but alot of people vote for the lesser of two evils. So, people settling for Bush over those two should give you guys some clue.

“Then why the prattle about cherishing your rights yadayadayada? If your as keen on the constitution and your rights as you say you are what difference does it make whether it was Bush or Gore?”

Because to many, losing some is better than losing most. Not hard to understand at all.

“Boy Im glad I dont live in that state of fear. Seems our enemy is calling the shots and we just fall in line thanks to our poor repub leaderdship.”

No, you just live in the state of fear that fears firearms and religion. Seems like you fear the Constitutional rights of your fellow Americans more than you do the enemy who is sworn to kill us. Way to fall in line behind the all knowing liberal leadership there.

“As for me I do love my country and this is the wrong road to travel down.

I love her too. I also served her and fought for her. Where we differ though, is that I believe anything and everything should be done to protect her and her people.

“Not some of us, All of us love our country kctim its just that some of us think that free speech is one of the reasons to love this country.”

So is the flag, so is our 2nd Amendment right, so is our individual freedoms, funny how those things are ok to intrude on huh.

“Can you remember the last time someone in this country publically burnd an American flag?”

Nope, but hearing or seeing somebody doing it still pisses me off. I don’t think we need an amendment to stop it though. I believe a person should be able to show his hate for his country, just as I believe a person should be able to show his hate for the ass burning the flag.

“The repub lead 109th was worthless.”

Yes it was. They did nothing to overturn any of the liberal policies that have damaged our country. I guess we should just be thankful they didn’t raise our taxes even more.

“With all the issues to deal with this had to be so far down the line as to be absurd.”

To some, but to others, flag and country are very important and I understand that. The left does not.

“Yet those that supposedly are the protectors of our constitutional rights continue to vote for the repubs . Talk is cheap.”

Because they are the lesser of two evils. That is not a hard thing to grasp. Vote for the repubs who will mess with 1 or 2 rights, or vote for a liberal who will change most of them? Hmmmm?

“Not just gay marriage kctim your religious right friends want to restrict many other rights as they continue their push towards a theocracy.”

Such as?

“I to love my country I just dont need a cheap chinese made lapel pin to prove it.”

So, you want people to understand why some don’t like the symbol of their country, but you don’t feel it necessary to understand why others love the symbol of their country? What a crock.
People love the flag and choosing not to wear that pin while pandering for their vote, was a dumb political move that could have been avoided.

“I dont understand what your beef is with what is taught nor do I see why you blame all of the problems with public schools on the “liberals”.”

Do you know what is taught? It has gone beyond teaching reading, writing, math, history and science. The most important things our kids need to learn, has been cut down so that they can be taught the personal opinions of others. Those things have been dumbed down so that nobody feels left behind. Those things have all been dumbed down and replaced with feel-good subjects like sex and diversity.

“your guys have made such a mess that it will take some time to do the right thing.”

My guys are the soldiers. I did not agree with the plan to go in.

“Then why make up silly names like the death tax and let the rich .5% that pay it hide behind the foolish average conservatives rhetoric.”

Because the idea that govt stealing from one and giving to another is even remotely fair, is even sillier.

“Overtaxed according to what? Why do you think its all the liberals kctim.”

Why? Because liberals are the ones who piss their pants anytime feel-good program cuts are mentioned and are always wanting more money to fund them.

“Wht not cut military spending? We spend more on military than the rest of the world.”

Don’t we also have the best military in the world? Shouldn’t we have the best equipment? Aren’t our soldiers treated better?
Some cuts would probably be fine though. But cutting the military spending and then spending it somewhere else, isn’t really cutting taxes is it?

“Come on being an average guy myself I often wonder why we think we need to rule the world.”

Partisan BS. People on the right don’t want to rule the world any more than those on the left want to become a communist state.

“To stop the mandated programs is ridiculous at this stage as we have been paying into them for years.”

Yes, we all know the far left extremist talk. Liberals know they need those programs in order to pander for and scare up votes. In reality though, we have been paying into them for too long, so they would have to be phased out over time. Voluntary participation would be a great first step.

“4 hours to see the doctor? thats not average guy talk kctim thats average far right extremist talk. what a joke. Its propaganda and you know it.”

No, I believe the far right talk is more like 6 or 8 hours. I was just going from news reports and what my brother in-law, who is a Dem married to a Canadian, says.
I know, liberals want to be more like the French system, but that is just as bad. Sorry, but individual freedoms are big to me.

“You know for someone thats so against taxes why arent you in a tizzy over cutting taxes and then borrowing for the occupation in Iraq? why arent you blaming the cons for that added burden on our kids and grandkids.”

Sigh, I do blame those in charge for doing that J2. They should have cut spending along with the tax cuts.

“Not the hard one kctim the one Caroline didnt mention, the strawman you put up instead.”

I see. So “learning what has been done to us by the so called religious right” is different than “religious wrongs done to us?” Um, ok.

“Well lets not balance the budget or get out of Iraq lets just continue with the destruction of the government so we can be ruled by a corpocracy. Silly is as silly does.”

Then we should just give up on our beliefs because the all knowing liberals will balance the budget and get us out of Iraq? BS!

“Right how could they compare to Bush what a sick joke kctim. How much more pathetic could it be?”

The only difference would have been who was supporting what, except for support of the military. People would have hated President gore, but they would not have placed politics above the soldiers.

“As if you would vote for a democrat. Get real kctim.”

I have and would vote for a real Democrat J2. Ike Skelton would make a great President and would help narrow the divide that Obama will only make greater.

What you should have said was, “as if you would vote for a liberal, get real kctim.” In which you would have been 100% correct on. I love my country and my rights too much to ever do that.

Posted by: kctim at May 2, 2008 11:39 AM
Comment #251938

Jim M—-I was talking about how the phrase “liberal” or collecting more taxes has become such an evil idea/phrase in this country as a knee jerk reaction instead of people really thinking things out.

For instance….If you take what you spend on health care, individually, plus what you spend on social security and any retirement funds you may have or try to have plus money for kids in college or vocational school or community college plus money spent on medicine……………….and add it all up………………it comes out to a huge amount. Our govt could collect a lot less than that from each of us as taxes to pay for it all. And, for the record, I am talking about a fair tax that taxes everyone fairly, but esp the very rich in this country who have gotten their money often from the backs of the poor, or who have never earned it but just gotten it from mommmy and daddy…………but through no work or productive endeaver of their own. And citizens would get back so much for their taxes.

And, sir, many would love to use their own earnings for this, but have a pre-existing condition that makes insurance impossible to get without huge huge premiums. I have not been able to work a full time job because of an adopted special needs son who is not special needs enough for services by the state but he is too special needs to get a full time job that he can live on. Or get a job that pays for insurance or all the medicine he needs…………..


Your tone seems to imply that I am asking for a handout………..I am not. there are plenty of people (I have met them) who are a lot worse off then me………single parents with special needs children who are not quite special needs enough for lots of services, but too needy to be left alone so the parent can work fulltime and hire a sitter……..or a teacher…….or just have a night off.

There are many who cannot change jobs, move to a different town or city, or house and live in fear of a dr appt because their health insurance will not cover things………or a pre-existing condition makes it impossible to ever change jobs. I am reading now about families who have sacrificed so much in life for their children to go to college, only now to find out that loans are almost impossible to get and prices of colleges are sky rocketing and there are no options.

Does it threaten you to think that the govt could actually do a better job at this? france, canada, england, sweden are not perfect———-but looking at all the statistics re: general happiness, well-being, sucess of citizens in these countries, they rate higher than we do. We are teh greatest country EVER—-why are we so afraid to take a look at something different? why are we so afraid to look at what other democracies are doing right and try some of this out for ourselves?

Posted by: judyelh at May 2, 2008 2:41 PM
Comment #251940

Judyelh
It is far from being merely a knee jerk reaction. Many of us have thought it out and have decided to fight for and keep the individual rights we have left.
All of your suggestions concerning healthcare, schooling, retirement etc…, are individual responsibilities, not govts. Govts job is to run govt, not lives and many of us do not want govt so deep in our lives. We want to be represented, not ruled.

A fair tax, which would tax everybody fairly, means everybody must be taxed equally. Equally does not mean punishing people for success or rewarding them for their failures.

You are saying to take from one and give to another, that is a handout.

Even if govt could do a better job at it, is throwing away our rights worth it?
I enjoy thinking for myself. I enjoy planning for my healthcare and retirement and kids schooling. If so much wasn’t stolen from me each paycheck and given to others, I would enjoy it even more.
I’m not rich by any means, and its hard living paycheck to paycheck on such a tight budget, but I do it.
My general happiness, well-being or success as a citizen doesn’t come from what I have or what I don’t have, it comes from being an American and having individual rights no frenchman, Canadian, Brit, Swede etc… have.

“why are we so afraid to look at what other democracies are doing right and try some of this out for ourselves?”

Because of something called the US Constitution.

Posted by: kctim at May 2, 2008 3:38 PM
Comment #251971

Possibly Obama dumped Wright because he has not heard him in full context?

In his “great” speech on racism that all children should hear in school (or so the obamabots told us), Obama told us he could no more disown Wright than his White Grandma.

Well, Obama has kicked both Grandma and Wright under the bus. Do children still have to read that great Obama speech now that it’s been recalled? Perhaps the “great race speech of our time” could simply be edited to leave out the parts that show it was a meaningless bit of propaganda?

Posted by: stephen at May 2, 2008 10:46 PM
Comment #253280

Clinton has taken Kentucky and Obama is almost sure to win Oregon.
The Democratic race for nomination is still very much alive – and most likely to be decided by superdelegates – as CNN points out clearly

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/05/20/primary.wrap/index.html

If you’re tired of waiting around for those super delegates to make a decision already, go to LobbyDelegates.com and push them to support Clinton or Obama

If you haven’t done so yet, please write a message to each of your state’s superdelegates at http://www.lobbydelegates.com

Obama Supporters:

Sending a note to current Obama supporters lets them know it’s appreciated, sending a note to current Clinton supporters can hopefully sway them to change their vote to Obama, and sending a note to the uncommitted folks will hopefully sway them to vote for Obama. It’s that easy…

Clinton Supporters too …. !

It takes a moment, but what’s a few minutes now worth to get Clinton in office?! Those are really worth !

Sending a note to current Clinton supporters lets them know it’s appreciated, sending a note to current Obama supporters can hopefully sway them to change their vote to Clinton, and sending a note to the uncommitted folks will hopefully sway them to vote for Clinton. It’s that easy…

Posted by: Jack08democracy at May 21, 2008 4:58 AM
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