Democrats & Liberals Archives

Prejudice against Muslims

American prejudice against Muslims is strong. If we do have this prejudice, how can we win the hearts and minds of Muslims throughout the world? Almost everyone who has written thoughtfully about this subject agrees that prejudice is holding back our attack against al Qaeda and other extremists. We must reduce this prejudice and the best way to do this is to correct the misinformation Americans have about Muslims.

Why should we even discuss that Obama's middle name is Hussein? So what? So he went to a Muslim school as a kid. So what? Part of the defamation going on stresses that he is a Muslim, not a Christian. He's definitely a Christian. But so what if he weren't?

Somehow Americans have a very distorted view of Muslims and what they think. This distorted view is a result of American misinformation about the attitudes of Muslims. Misinformation leads to prejudice. A Gallup poll demonstrated the extent of American misinformation:

Starting in 2001, the research firm Gallup embarked on the largest, most comprehensive survey of its kind, spending more than six years polling a population that represented more than 90% of the world's 1.3 billion Muslims. The results showed plainly that much of the conventional wisdom about Muslims -- views touted by U.S. policymakers and pundits and accepted by voters -- is simply false.

For instance, Gallup found that 72% of Americans disagreed with this statement: "The majority of those living in Muslim countries thought men and women should have equal rights." In fact, majorities in even some of the most conservative Muslim societies directly refute this assessment: 73% of Saudis, 89% of Iranians and 94% of Indonesians say that men and women should have equal legal rights. Majorities of Muslim men and women in dozens of countries around the world also believe that a woman should have the right to work outside the home at any job for which she is qualified (88% in Indonesia, 72% in Egypt and even 78% in Saudi Arabia), and to vote without interference from family members (87% in Indonesia, 91% in Egypt, 98% in Lebanon).

I know it's hard to accept. But most of us don't know what we're talking about when discussing Muslims. We seem to have the idea that all Muslims are terrorists. The vast majority of the 1.3 billion Muslims are not extremists of any kind. We disregard our own rules in the Bill of Rights when we harass Islamic communities in the U.S.

When we - individuals and diplomats - travel to Islamic lands we have no idea how to converse with Muslims. All of us should learn more about Islam so we do not confuse peace-loving Muslims with extremists. Better information will show that the average Muslim has the same wants and needs as people like us.

Posted by Paul Siegel at April 2, 2008 4:46 PM
Comments
Comment #249698

I agree. When all this came up about Barack being muslim and everyone kept saying he isn’t-he’s christian- I thought so what if he was- does it say somewhere that the president of the united states can only be christian. the whole thing was fear mongering plain and simple.

I would hazard a guess that in general most americans are uneducated about almost all other cultures. We do little to learn about other people and their cultures. Sad to say but I fear we are more interested in who wins american idol or one of the other reality shows than we are learning useful information. We have become lazy and get most of our information from the so called news channels which aren’t really news channels.

Posted by: carolina at April 2, 2008 5:15 PM
Comment #249700

Shades of WWII

Posted by: KAP at April 2, 2008 5:41 PM
Comment #249704

Is American prejudice against muslims bad? yes. Is it anywhere near what muslim states do to Christians? Hardly. When someone paints a cross submerged in urine Christians say we shouldn’t have to pay for it. When someone draws a cartoon of Mohammed or names after him, people die.

Not all muslims are terrorists. I get it. But a lot of them like Shari’a and eventually might try to impose it in European states/America. Over my dead body.

Posted by: Silima at April 2, 2008 7:39 PM
Comment #249722

There is a great deal of misunderstanding in this world. Polls indicate that Muslims around the world misunderstand the U.S. They do not remember that the U.S. fought to protect Muslims in Afghanistan, Bosnia or Kosovo and many do not understand our current role in helping Iraq.

American Muslims are doing very well, BTW. Their income levels are above the American average and there is no better or safer place for a Muslim to live and practice his religion the way he/she sees fit than the U.S. This is the truth, anecdotes to the contrary not withstanding.

The idea behind your post (I think) is to take Americans to task re Muslims. You are right that the U.S. is a hard place for Muslims to express their religious beliefs - except compared to everyplace else.


Posted by: Jack at April 3, 2008 1:46 AM
Comment #249724

There is a great deal of misunderstanding in this world. Polls indicate that Muslims around the world misunderstand the U.S. They do not remember that the U.S. fought to protect Muslims in Afghanistan, Bosnia or Kosovo and many do not understand our current role in helping Iraq.

American Muslims are doing very well, BTW. Their income levels are above the American average and there is no better or safer place for a Muslim to live and practice his religion the way he/she sees fit than the U.S. This is the truth, anecdotes to the contrary not withstanding.

The idea behind your post (I think) is to take Americans to task re Muslims. You are right that the U.S. is a hard place for Muslims to express their religious beliefs - except compared to everyplace else.


Posted by: Jack at April 3, 2008 1:49 AM
Comment #249734

I agree that we have helped other countries but lets don’t pretend we haven’t caused a lot of havoc across the world by interfering in other countries covertly and openly.

Posted by: Carolina at April 3, 2008 7:48 AM
Comment #249736

Carolina

We are the greatest power in the history of the world. There is no part of the world where our influence has not penetrated. After WWII the U.S. alone produced half of ALL the things produced in the world. Of course we have done good and bad. On balance, good.

Take a simple look at the world. Places with more U.S. contact are almost always better off then their neigbors with less. Think N&S Korea, E&W Germany for very clear cases.

We have to look at the whole picture. American arrogance is an ugly thing but it is more common on the LEFT than the right. It is arrogant to credit America with everything good in the world and equally arrogant to blame us for all the wrongs. A balanced assessment would find lots of nuance, but compared with other great powers - not bad.

Posted by: Jack at April 3, 2008 8:20 AM
Comment #249756

Paul wrote:

“We seem to have the idea that all Muslims are terrorists.”

No, but we are hard pressed to remember when all terrorists WEREN’T Muslims.

In 1972, we learned that Black September wasn’t a Catholic organization.

We soon learned that the P.L.O. wasn’t a Buddist group.

We subsequently learned that Hamas, Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad, al Qaeda, etc., weren’t Southern Baptist prayer groups.

We learned that when an airplane is hijacked to Lebanon (or anywhere else in the world for that matter) that there is a 99.9% chance that Muslims were the hijackers.

We learned that when an airplane is blown to bits over Lockerbie, Scotland, that there is another 99.9% chance that Muslims were behind it.

We learned that when an airport was attacked with automatic weapons and handgrenades…massacring scores of innocent passengers…that Muslims were “at it” again.

We learned to assume that when three airplanes are rammed into the World Trade Center and the Pentagon that Muslims probably did it.

We learned to presuppose that when a military barracks in Lebanon and Saudi Arabia are blown up that it was the work of one Muslim group or another.

We learned that when our embassies are assaulted that we should automatically presume that it was the work of Muslims.

We learned that when a suicide bomber hits one of our warships, it was absolutely a Muslim that did it.

We learned by watching horrific videos on the internet of barbaric beheadings that beyond a shadow of a doubt Muslims that held and used the knife.

We learned hard, hard lessons. We learned.

With all this violence and barbaric behavior occuring all over the world, there was no counterpoint. There was no outrage from the Muslim community condemning this activity. The mass of the Muslim religion sat idly by and did not protest that these acts and people were NOT representative of the teachings and practices of the Muslim religion.

So what are we to think? What are we to assume?

If there is a prejudice against Muslims, who, REALLY, is to blame?

Are WE to blame after being inundated with these horrific, subhuman images of barbarity…or is it Muslims themselves who, by their silence, acquiesced?

Posted by: Jim T at April 3, 2008 11:56 AM
Comment #249760

We also learned that Muslims are simply misunderstood, that we should work hard to better understand their hardships, and that the evil US and right-wing Christians don’t deserve the same.

Posted by: kctim at April 3, 2008 12:59 PM
Comment #249762

Paul,
I agree with you. Ignorance is the real enemy.

Most Americans do not seem to realize that the majority of Muslims are not terrorists. That they are not out to GET US. The majority of Muslims are peace loving, caring, non-violent people.

There are of course, exceptions to the rule. Just as there are exceptions to the rule that all those of the Christian faith are ‘Good’ people.

We have many ‘Christians’ who are violent. Many who are far more violent than anything the Muslims ever dreamed of. Any one remember the Holocaust?

Read the headlines of your local newspaper. The murder rate, the incidents of rape, robbery, kidnapping, sexual assaults on both men, women and CHILDREN, hate crimes, etc. etc. These crimes are perpetuated by people who if asked would say they are Christians. Or were Christians. Drunk driving, drug use, prostitution, all of these crimes have been committed by ‘GOOD’ Christian folk.

And while I don’t have the numbers, I suspect more people have been injured and killed by ‘GOOD’ ‘Christian’ believers than by the Muslims terrorists - and I’m not even counting the Crusades!

I can’t help but believe that all of these crimes, from terrorists bombings to the Christian murders have been done out of ignorance.

We all know about the US education system, broken homes, poverty, gang violence,etc. so I won’t address them.

But what about the ignorance of an entire country? Many Muslims have been taught by their governments, that we are the enemy. They have not been allowed to read, speak, hear, and learn the truth. Their books, televisions, radios, and newspapers are all controlled by their governments. They have no Bill of Rights. The idea of assembling, discussing politics, or even freedom of religion is totally foreign to many of them.

Yes, sometimes in rather self-serving ways, we have done many good things for them. However if they have no knowledge of these events, how are they supposed to know? They live under strict guidelines set by their governments. Complete acquiescence of their people is the main goal for theses governments. This is done by oppression and and ignorance.

Maintaining ignorance in a country helps to keep the people in line. It helps to convince the people that the only right way is is their way. This is the most important thing these governments can achieve, if they are to stay in power and continue getting wealthy.

And even Iraq, with virtual no government, is still influenced by what Saddam DID NOT allow them to learn. Is it really so hard to understand their fear of us? We are the great unknown.

One last thing - I honestly believe that the young men and women who give they lives really believe that what they are doing is the only way to save our souls.

I find it hard to hate someone who’s only true goal in life is to save mine.

I just disagree with their methods.

Posted by: Linda H. at April 3, 2008 1:38 PM
Comment #249766

Somehow Americans have a very distorted view of Muslims and what they think

Yeh, and somehow Muslims have a distorted view of America:

Al-Qsa TV

Check out the Saturday morning cartoons, especially No. 1729….

Posted by: George in SC at April 3, 2008 2:54 PM
Comment #249767

“American prejudice against Muslims is strong.”

I could also make the reverse argument that Muslim prejudice against America is strong. And don’t give me that BS that America deserves it, because nobody deserves their heads chopped off. Nobody deserves to make the choice about leaping off a window 40 stories up - or face certain painful death while the world around you in engulfed in flames.

I’m so sick of America hatred, especially by its own citizens. I am absolutely sick to freaking death of it. Maybe it is because I live in San Franpsycho and am constantly bombarded with every asinine cause under the sun. Hypocrisy reigns supreme here. Antiwar protestors using violence and mayhem to promote their cause. Environmental wackos holding large signs over a major freeway I daily commute, which invariably slows down traffic to a halt - causing further pollution. Code Pinko hippy rejects camping out in Berkeley - teaching a new younger generation that a peaceable protest and tempered civil disobedience simply doesn’t get you a spot on the 6 o’clock news anymore. The more freakish and obnoxious you look and act earns that all coveted media spotlight thrown on your cause - however sick and perverted it is.

Im sick of it. I’m sick of sanctuary cities, bloated city supervisor salaries, Air America communism. I’m sick of it. I can’t stand self loathing, especially when we give and do more than any other country to help others. I’m fed up with the use of the racist card - especially when it is used to gain an advantage over others. I desperately crave that feeling of unity and common purpose I felt after 9/11. I imagine what the founding fathers, patriots and common colonists must have felt to be united in common pursuit of freedom and throwing off the yoke of oppression. I imagine what those sailors and GIs must have felt to have a heroes welcome home after their bloody sacrifices in WWII. I believe in good and I believe in evil. Not everything is black and white, but I think when we color everything as gray, we obscure the things that are most important to us - things like freedom and self determination. The willingness to help others but not forgetting to help ourselves as well. I am fortunate to live in the greatest of countries that this world has ever seen, I just wish that we all had the same clarity of vision…

Posted by: b0mbay at April 3, 2008 3:04 PM
Comment #249773
American arrogance is an ugly thing but it is more common on the LEFT than the right.

How about some concrete examples???

Posted by: Rachel at April 3, 2008 4:10 PM
Comment #249775

Well done bOmbay. I can appreciate what you put up with in SF. Just listening to the news about some of their outrageous beliefs and behaviors gets me upset.

Many of the hippies of the 60’s now hold public office and haven’t learned a thing about citizenship, the work ethic that made America great, personal responsibility and public decorum. They’re tolerated in our bastion of freedom even though they contribute little of value to our common good much as those you describe today.

They do however contribute in a way that many of them do not realize. They are a clear example of what happens when good people do nothing. Yes, I said it, when good people (you and me) do nothing. I will be called some nasty names for not being politically correct and frankly, I don’t give a damn.

Some of these SF folk think they are our saviors representing what our founders had in mind when writing our guiding principles. If fact, they are just rabble, dissenting what “good” Americans value.

Posted by: Jim M at April 3, 2008 4:14 PM
Comment #249776

Rachel

No matter what problem anywhere in the world, our own lefties want to find a way to blame the U.S. The examples are so common you can think of a dozen in a few seconds. This is very arrogant. They evidently believe that a few Americans, working mostly undercover, can overcome millions of foreigners.

Posted by: Jack at April 3, 2008 4:26 PM
Comment #249780

“San Franpsycho, asinine, wackos, Code Pinko hippy rejects, freakish, perverted, sanctuary cities, bloated city supervisor salaries, Air America communism, sick of it, self loathing”

So I guess you’re in favor of free speech, but mostly just for you. Hell is other people.

On the Muslim issue, don’t worry, they can be just as hypocritical as us. I know a Pakistani guy who is always looking for someplace to hide his liquor. He doesn’t want to keep it at home.

Posted by: ohrealy at April 3, 2008 5:08 PM
Comment #249787

“So I guess you’re in favor of free speech, but mostly just for you. Hell is other people.”
Posted by: ohrealy at April 3, 2008 05:08 PM

If you lived on the same block as a Grand Pubah Clan Leader and a NeoNazi skin head I would assume that you would NEED to find some way to vent over the lunacy around you. I’m not some right wing extremist, but my city is a consortium of the same ilk - just on the other end of the spectrum.

I know it came off as a rant, but nowhere in my diatribe did I espouse the denial of free speech. Far from it. My main point is the disgusting nature of the message - not the right to say it.

b0mbay

Posted by: b0mbay at April 3, 2008 5:50 PM
Comment #249789

“American arrogance is an ugly thing but it is more common on the LEFT than the right.

How about some concrete examples???”
Posted by: Rachel at April 3, 2008 04:10 PM


ar·ro·gance
offensive display of superiority or self-importance; overbearing pride.

How about the latest scheduled protest over the Olympic torch bearing here in my lovely city of San Francisco. Isn’t it arrogant to point the finger at China about their problems without first looking in our own mirror? Surely we should look at how crime, drug use and habitual vagrancy holds our cities hostage?

More to the point, isn’t it completely hypocritical for the left to decry the war in Iraq even though one of our goals was to overthrow an oppressive and murderous regime, yet it is all fine and dandy to scream foul when it comes to another regime’s treatment of some Buddhist monks?

I’m not condoning China’s behavior either - so don’t go down that road. There is, in my opinion, a fundamental flaw in leftist logic as it relates to these issues.

b0mbay

Posted by: b0mbay at April 3, 2008 6:01 PM
Comment #249793

“Yes, I said it, when good people (you and me) do nothing. I will be called some nasty names for not being politically correct and frankly, I don’t give a damn.”
Posted by: Jim M at April 3, 2008 04:14 PM

Amen and thanks for the comments. I am sick to death of scraping and groveling when my thoughts don’t meet the PC standards. Like I am a bad person for loving my country. If I dare to speak out on affirmative action, I am labeled a racist. It’s complete horsecrap. The Jessie Jacksons and Al Sharptons of the world are con artists. Thieves which use race, hatred and bigotry as tools to achieve their selfish ends much like their traditional counterparts might use a lockpick.

Booker T Washington was prophetic in his assertion that “There is a class of colored people who make a business of keeping the troubles, the wrongs, and the hardships of the Negro race before the public. Some of these people do not want the Negro to lose his grievances, because they do not want to lose their jobs. There is a certain class of race-problem solvers who don’t want the patient to get well.” —Booker T. Washington, 1911

The race card is a scam - don’t you get that? And when others like Paul in his blog attempt to highlight his assertion that “American prejudice against Muslims is strong” he is in fact aiming for another goal altogether, and that is to somehow abase ourselves to their culture under the guise of our ignorance.

b0mbay

Posted by: b0mbay at April 3, 2008 6:42 PM
Comment #249796

By the way, there is nothing wrong with educating ourselves - especially when it serves to correct ignorance. However, isn’t it a form of ignorance to ignore reality? The reality is that the majority of the extreme terrorism that the entire world is facing is at the hands of radical islamists. A recent example of this hit the front pages of the BBC today http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7328892.stm

“Prosecutor Peter Wright QC said the men planned to inflict heavy casualties, “all in the name of Islam”.The planes were destined to fly from London to cities across North America, including Montreal, Toronto, San Francisco, Chicago, New York and Washington, the court heard. The defendants are Abdul Ahmed Ali, aka Ahmed Ali Khan, 27, of Walthamstow, Assad Sarwar, 24, of High Wycombe, Tanvir Hussain, 27, of no fixed address, and Mohammed Gulzar, 26, of Barking.

Also charged, are Ibrahim Savant, 27, of Walthamstow, Arafat Waheed Khan, 26, of Walthamstow, Waheed Zaman, 23, of Walthamstow and Umar Islam, aka Brian Young, 29, of High Wycombe. “

This is reality! Not the fact that there was a some gallup poll taken in Tehran about gender equality! If you all want to ignore these facts, then I’ll be the first to hand you a fiddle while Rome burns around you.

b0mbay-

Posted by: b0mbay at April 3, 2008 7:29 PM
Comment #249804
Almost everyone who has written thoughtfully about this subject agrees that prejudice is holding back our attack against al Qaeda and other extremists.

Almost everyone? Carry to name even a few? How about starting with even one? That way we could evaluate for ourselves whether or not these writings are “thoughtful.” I have to admit to very small confidence, considering the overall sloppiness of your post and your established record of posting from sites like Daily Kos and other far left websites about what you would consider “writing thoughtfully.”

Further, American attitudes toward Muslims are not based on what we believe they think they should have when it comes to human rights in their own countries. We happen to know—quite correctly—that they don’t have these rights they profess to want. We also happen to know quite correctly that their Islamic governments don’t allow them to have these rights.

But quite frankly, although I disapprove of honor killings and the fact that women can’t own property, drive cars, divorce their husbands, or pursue their chosen careers in large segments of the Muslim world—thanks to the tender loving mercies of their Islamic rulers—none of these things are a matter of overwhelming pressing or personal concern to me.

I think that my attitude toward Muslims probably has more to do with other issues—outrage and death threats over cartoons, dancing in the streets over terrorist atrocities, moral and financial approval for terrorists from both Islamic states and in Islamic popular opinion.

Posted by: Loyal Opposition at April 3, 2008 9:33 PM
Comment #249806

Also, I’d like to hear a little more about how “prejudice holds back” our attack against Al Qaida.

Since this is such an original idea—truly groundbreaking because it flies in the face of all historical precedent—it would be FANTASTIC if you extended your thesis and took us on a grand tour of military and world history to clear the fog out of our eyes once and for all. If you’re right, you’re likely to win a Nobel Prize—so let’s hope you are! Some suggestions for things you ought to explain:

1). How the US and its allies would have defeated Nazism in Germany and Fascism in Italy so much faster if we’d paid more attention to, had greater empathy with, and accentuated the positive when it came to Nazi and Fascist aspirations.

2). How Lincoln and the collective armies of the Republic would have defeated the Southern states faster and more efficiently if they’d done a better job of utilizing the power of positive thinking when it came to the doctrines of slavery and seccessionism.

3). How the American Revolution would have gone so much more smoothly if American subjects to the British crown would only have adopted more subtle, nuanced, and open-minded attitudes toward the prospect of being colonial subjects to the sovereign aristocratic lords in faraway lands. Certainly King George had his good qualities too!

I await what I’m sure will be a very eye-opening in not awe-inspiring explanation of this brilliant new theory.

Posted by: Loyal Opposition at April 3, 2008 10:21 PM
Comment #249819


We need to differentiate between religion and violent factions. Religion is inert and simply a form of identity. Associations among men are due to a number of reasons; race, ideals, governments, even gatherings around personalities such as kings and dictators. Only when they become violent and violate unalienable rights do they pass from becoming a nuisance to a threat.
The Jihadist faction of Islam has earned not only our rage but our right to defend ourselves by destroying them. A vast majority of Americans have the ability to sort out violent and nonviolent factions. Iraq and Afghanistan are good examples where we support democratic based Muslims and destroy violent factions that threaten order and security for those who choose to live in peace. I observe the complete opposite of prejudice toward Muslims from this.

Posted by: Kruser at April 4, 2008 7:52 AM
Comment #249824

The polls you mention are a support to the premise that some rights are unalienable and exist outside of social construction.

Freedom and justice exist outside human influence. It is only recognized by governing entities. That is why the polls are a surprise to those who know Muslim indoctrination. They suppose a majority automatically conform to discrimination because it is a societal norm for them.

Posted by: Kruser at April 4, 2008 10:15 AM
Comment #249834

If “73% of Saudis, 89% of Iranians and 94% of Indonesians say that men and women should have equal legal rights”, then the Saudi and Iranian governments will undoubtedly be overthrown soon, or large numbers of their population will be looking for a home elsewhere.

I always find it amusing to see women from the other side of the world in blue jeans and sneakers, but those in more traditional clothes can also want the same freedoms.

Posted by: ohrealy at April 4, 2008 12:16 PM
Comment #249837

6% of Indonesians, 11% of Iranians and a whopping 27% of Saudis oppose women having the same rights as men in their respective countries.

Sounds a bit different to me.

Posted by: b0mbay at April 4, 2008 1:08 PM
Comment #249841

On the other hand, one does not need to be “prejudiced” to realize that radical islam IS at war with us and that we need to fight them. One need not be prejudiced or be called prejudiced to defend the US from those who are waging war against it.


The mere fact that one feels we should fight radical islam instead of bowing down to it does not make one prejudiced.

Posted by: Stephen at April 4, 2008 2:40 PM
Comment #249937

If you invade and kill a million or so, you will wind their hearts and minds. Hey, It worked for Stalin.

Posted by: googlumpugus at April 6, 2008 4:08 PM
Comment #249963

You are confusing killing those who participate in nonviolent political dissent with destroying violent factions that dress as civilians, decapitate prisoners and use children as shields?
You can win hearts and minds only when the threat from violent factions are removed and free expression is allowed.

Posted by: Kruser at April 7, 2008 10:34 AM
Comment #250132

Part of the problem with that survey could be a difference between the question asked and the question heard. Most of us know that there are not equal rights in the bulk of Muslim countries. That women are massively discriminated against. That many arab people are repressed by this religion or that tribe, what have you. Ruthless religious and secular leadership is the way it is over there for the most part.

Many may have heard the question to be: “Do the majority of Muslims HAVE equal rights”? That’s the question I would have expected to be asked and I might have answered that question when the other one was asked because I would have “heard” what I expected to hear.


By the way, I believe we should wage war on radical Islam. That involves NO PREJUDICE on my part Against Muslims. It is not prejudiced to wage war on those waging war on you.


How are we to get together when they insist on blowing us up and waging war with us, when they insist on domination? What will liberals do about radical Islmaic intolerance besides preaching surrender to prove our “enlightenment and tolerance”?

Posted by: Stephen at April 9, 2008 2:23 PM
Comment #250144

Liberals just don’t get it. Given the power to enforce their will Sharia law would not just apply to Muslims it will aplly to everyone and be enforced at the point of a gun. You can babel on all you want about “peaceful Muslims” but it sounds a whale of a lot like “peace in our time” to me.


Posted by: Carnak at April 9, 2008 4:43 PM
Comment #254073

i totally agree w/ this article. Being a young Muslim attending a Jewish Junior High School, it sickens me how todays youth take this so seriously. We act as if all this involves us. B4 the 9/11 attack, all of us were frends; now, it’s crazy. I live and breath the air of New York. The Jewish kids in our school all make fun of the muslims attending our school. I can’t mention the name because it’s private information. I’m sorry to say that the world is such a cruel place.

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Comment #353018

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