Democrats & Liberals Archives

Point of View

Barack Obama delivered his greatest speech since the start of the campaign. This is what I and many other Democrats think. As a matter of fact, most of us are delirious about it. Republicans are not so happy. Sure , they all praise him for being eloquent and a great orator, and then they blast him for saying nice things about Rev Wright, Obama’s pastor. We have different points of view.

This was an outstanding speech that could be compared to FDR's speech about "having nothing to fear but fear itself," Martin Luther King's "I have a dream" and Kennedy's speech about his Catholicism. He addressed the issue that had been raised about his relationship with Rev. Wright. He declared that he condemned his pastor's inflammatory language but did not retract his relationship with the man that brought him to Christianity. Then he took one of the greatest risks I have ever seen a politician take: He explained the anger of the black community and of the white community and told us we can overcome the racial problem in America.

Every liberal blog I visited praised Obama to the skies. So I visited the conservative National Review and saw a very different point of view. You can get a feeling for this different point of view from the titles of the various conservative writers:

  • The Editors - "Obama's Evasions"
  • Linda Chavez - "Afrocentrism is the Problem"
  • Liam Julian - "Strategic Miss"
  • Jonah Goldberg - "Yesterday's Baggage"
  • Kathleen Parker - "Guilting America to the White House"
  • Thomas Sowell - "Wright Bound"
  • Victor David Hanson - "An Elegant Farce"
  • Stanley Kurtz - "MoveOn, Move In"
In the Obama spirit of everybody getting together for the common good, I'll say that maybe these guys have a point in criticizing Obama's not distancing himself from Wright the man, and not merely from Wright and his explosive sayings. But it's not a point over which to maintain an argument that has ripped the country apart. How about forgiving. Isn't that a virtue with the party of values?

I did find one conservative at the Corner, Charles Murray, who saw that Obama's speech was more than a political speech:

I read the various posts here on "The Corner," mostly pretty ho-hum or critical about Obama's speech. Then I figured I'd better read the text (I tried to find a video of it, but couldn't). I've just finished. Has any other major American politician ever made a speech on race that comes even close to this one? As far as I'm concerned, it is just plain flat out brilliant—rhetorically, but also in capturing a lot of nuance about race in America. It is so far above the standard we're used to from our pols.... But you know me. Starry-eyed Obama groupie.

Yes, we all have our points of view. But occasionally it pays to listen to another point of view. This is what Obama would have us do. What's wrong with that?

Posted by Paul Siegel at March 19, 2008 4:00 PM
Comments
Comment #248479

For starters if Obama was present during the time Wright gave his hate message he should have walked out of the Church, I would have. Next Wright should have been disiplined by the higherarchy of his denomination. I don’t agree with everything my pastor has to say but he also does not talk hate and if he did I would be looking for another church and not defending him. Yes Obama is a great orator but great orators don’t make good presidents. Anybody can talk the talk but he better be able to walk the walk. We have one BS’er in the White House now we don’t need another.

Posted by: KAP at March 19, 2008 4:23 PM
Comment #248482

Hi Paul-

I like to listen to many as many points of view as I can as often as I can. Certainly makes life more interesting….

One thing is for certain, Barak Obama can give a speech. I listened to Stephanie Miller’s show last night and most every caller had been or was still moved to tears. Although he probably would have touched some of those people had the speech been on tiddly winks instead of race, it’s a commendable skill for a politician nonetheless. Especially when compared to the current crop we have in Washington.

So what’s behind the curtain over in Oz Land? Some see an empty suit and a silver tongue. Some see a black man who knows he has to play the game in order to be elected. Others see the “Magic Negro” who will finally bridge the racial divide. Unfortunately the racist and the prejudiced will see just a black man or just another Uncle Tom.

I still see a man on a tightrope, straddling the racial and ideological divides, hoping he doesn’t lean too far to the left, too far to the right, too far black or too far white. His best balancing aid is his oratory skills, and his words reflect the predicament he’s found himself in tangled.

Which leads me to the real issue I have with Mr. Obama. He’s so undefined.

Posted by: George in SC at March 19, 2008 4:55 PM
Comment #248484

Obama is very good at speeches. He can put things nicely into words.

I think the problem is and will be that Pastor This guy is a world class racist and his God D*mn America sound bite will be played over and over. I suppose Obama can claim he slept through lots of those hatful sermons, but now that he knows he needs to get a little more distance.

I am sorry if he likes the guy. Haters can be charming to those they like, or those of the proper group. This is a loser for Obama and it may well make a loser of him.

Obama has outgrown this sort of hate. I give him the benefit of the doubt about that. But he needs to cut loose the loser quick as he can.

Posted by: Jack at March 19, 2008 5:16 PM
Comment #248485

Sorry, I was typing in this comment in between other things and lost my train of thought.

The first sentence is - The problem is that this guy (Pastor Wright) is a world class racist.

Posted by: Jack at March 19, 2008 5:19 PM
Comment #248486

Why do some black people insist on being African-Americans; Hispanics, Mexican-Americans, etc. Is it not obvious that if a person is black his ancestry is probably from Africa, or having Hispanic features, from Mexico?

Why do some folks of color, and the media, continue to identify by race? Is there any good reason anyone can think of for this if not to fan racial flames in those so predisposed to be racists?

Let this generation be the one who no longer categorizes people by race or gender or religion. Let this be the generation that refuses to use hyphenated names for Americans.

Is Barack Obama an African-American? I didn’t bother to find out what ancestry his mother is so let’s suppose she is of Irish and German ancestry. Does that make Obama an African-Irish-German American? By what hyphenated name, if any, does Obama call himself. I hope he doesn’t use any hyphenated name but simply the name American. Any reference to Obama as African-American is clearly racist and should be ignored.

Americans simply have to stop using these hyphenated names and begin viewing all those legal citizens of the United States as Americans. Words and names have power, and we have the power to change how we perceive others.

Posted by: Jim M at March 19, 2008 5:27 PM
Comment #248487

When Don Imus made racial slurs, Obama was one of the leading voices calling for Imus’ firing. This is an interesting side point to what was going on at the same time — he was attending a church in which the pastor was screaming that [white] America had infected Africans with AIDS, that [white] America was no better than Al Qaeda, ad nauseum. How could Obama not realize what was going on in the church he had attended for 20 years?

His greatest speech? Give me a break. It was a classic attempt to deflect from the issue and if you really listened to its content, you’d have to wonder just what Obama really stands for at all.

Obama is trying to be everything to everyone, mixing it up with a gumbo of pablum, grandiloquence, bromides, and hypocrisy. As one commentator recently said, watching Obama and Hilary Clinton talking is like watching a couple of chihuahuas squaring off.

Posted by: goombah at March 19, 2008 5:28 PM
Comment #248491

Obama is well within his rights to call himself an African American, since his father was African, and his mother American. The “black” community in Chicago was as different to him as it would be to most whites, until he married his wife, and into the Daley machine. Remember, Obama does not have any southern roots, like most black Americans, and he did not grow up attending a church like Rev Jeremiah’s. To get elected in Chicago, he needed people like this. He was defeated about 2000 by Bobby Rush, a former Black Panther, whom even the Clintons supported over him.

Posted by: ohrealy at March 19, 2008 6:27 PM
Comment #248492

Obama not only gave a powerful, eloquent speech, supposedly he actually wrote the speech.

Obama is one person, and Reverend Wright is another person. They are not one and the same. But of course, Republicans will rely upon identifying the two as one and the same. Association of any form becomes identification.

Most Americans will differentiate. Many will not. It’s sad to see a poltician who advocates unity and an ideal of overcoming divisiveness subjected to this, but not at all surprising.

Posted by: phx8 at March 19, 2008 6:58 PM
Comment #248494

I am curious-are any of you posting here african-american? I have always found it uncomfortable when white americans begin expounding on what is racist and what isn’t. Like we would know. and before anyone says it-yes I agree white people have the right to give an opinion but excuse me if I don’t pay much attention-and no I am not black, african-american, hispanic, latino, asian and on and on. My mother is English and my father was american by way of german, dutch, irish, and scottish. So you see I know my heritage many african-americans don’t know where in africa they came from, what tribe they are a member of, and the questions for them are endless.

Jim why does it bother you so much that some black people want to be called african-american. who died and appointed you God to say that we just have to stop using hyphenated names and no I don’t assume that a black person is african-american just as I don’t assume all latinos are hispanic. Jim does it bother you as much when a woman chooses to use a hyphenated name when she is married so as not to lose her family heritage?

KAP I applaud you that if you were at church and the minister began giving a hate message you would have walked out-does that also apply to other places and people like your friends, work place, family. Has no one in your family ever expressed a hate message that you sat through and never responded too. I think Barack clearly loves this man and considers him family. Also, church is more than just the minister it is the people you grow to love, the fellowship, the friendship, the family. It is hard to give that up because of one person.

I don’t like what reverend wright has said but we have only heard a small sampling (only what the media has chosen to run on the tv)of what the man has had to say-I would like to hear more before I judge him and Barack.

I liked Barack’s speech and felt that it went along way to explaining why he continued to sit through some of rev. wright’s more unpleasant rantings. From my understanding from what Barack said Rev. Wright gave him a gift the gift of faith something that Barack feels was very valuable to him. I think of my retired from the army Uncle who is 100% behind Bush and is conservative beyond belief. He has said some things that I find VERY offensive about democrats, liberals and so forth. We have agreed to disagree. He lives in Texas so I don’t see him very often but I could refuse to see him at all which is what I would do if it was anyone else. But I LOVE this man-when as a child-I needed someone to show me that I was likeable and loveable and was a joy to have around-he did this-he spent time with me, played with me, teased me, loved me so no matter how repulsed I am by stuff he says I will also defend him, love him, and be there if he needs me.

Life is never as simple as we all try to make it. and no I am not a Obama fan although I will support him if he gets the nomination just as I will support Hillary if she should get the nomination. I was a John Edwards fan.

Posted by: Carolina at March 19, 2008 7:24 PM
Comment #248500

Ditto Heads of Rush Limbaugh apparently followed their leader’s instructions to vote and caucus in the Texas primary for Hillary. Appears the number of Republican cross overs approximates the difference between Obama’s and Clinton’s totals in the popular vote in Texas.

Republicans apparently prefer to run against Clinton over Obama. That was suspected for sometime, but now we have some statistical evidence for that suspicion.

What advantage McCain thought he might have had in the General election against Obama based on the Pastor’s statements, evaporated today as McCain disqualified himself today on the basis of having a complete misunderstanding of what is going on in Iraq.

Posted by: David R. Remer at March 19, 2008 8:19 PM
Comment #248503

African american is a terminology that Jesse Jackson tried to reintroduce when Spanish language networks, Univision and Telemundo, became prominent, because black translates into Spanish as negro. Suburban and higher income people refer to themselves as blacks. Lower income and city dwellers still use the dreaded N word. I once told a black client of mine that the black people in the office in Chicago kept using the N word. He said it was strictly forbidden for anyone to use that word. A few minutes later, a neighbor came over and called someone else the N word. When I first started watching The Wire, I thought the language was pretty nasty, but you get used to hearing it.

My mother’s paternal ancestors are from here:
http://www.cityofopelousas.com/
and if you go back to the 1820s, then you most likely have black relatives, whether you know it or not, just as people going back to the Colonial era have some native American ancestry. If you can’t wrap your head around that, then you are a racist.

On Rev Jeremiad, he lets himself get carried away in his rhetoric, in a different way from Obama, but he is right on drugs, prisons, and sentencing guidelines. The school superintendant in Chicago announced last week that they are looking into opening up several residential high schools, to get kids out of some home environments. High school is actually too late, they should be junior high schools.

Posted by: ohrealy at March 19, 2008 8:33 PM
Comment #248509

Carolina said: “I have always found it uncomfortable when white americans begin expounding on what is racist and what isn’t. Like we would know.”

I grew up in the inner city of Detroit in the 1950’s a caucasion. I know very well what racism is and how it feels. It went both ways in Detroit dating back to the race riots shortly after the turn of the 20th century. Being beaten by a group of black school kids for not other reason than one is a honky, feels the same as being a black kid being beaten by white kids for being black. I stopped using the N word at the age of 14, 1964. Though I did use it once thereafter, in a fist fight in the Army with my platoon sergeant who attacked me calling me some epithet referring to my white skin.

Your experience may be more limited. Los Angeles has a horrible racist situation. I once applied for a job 2 blocks down from the Black Panther Headquarters, there. The Black employer advised me and white friend that a sales position in this neighborhood would likely not be very profitable for us or him. Having walked past the BP Headquarters to the interview, we knew immediately what he meant, and thanked him for his candor and his time. Then we strolled back by the two black leather outfitted guards with rifles standing aside of the BP storefront door, to our car.

It was a one of those moments in time that explained so much and foretold of so much yet to come. One does not forget such moments. Of course, we were both residents of Detroit during the 1967 riots, living only blocks from where the firestorm began with the raid of the Blind Pig by Detroit Police. Many a white person knows about racism, from most sides of it, though the historical context and teachings are different for whites than for Blacks. Of that there is no doubt, unless the White person was raised in a Black family.

Posted by: David R. Remer at March 19, 2008 9:05 PM
Comment #248515

I agree with Paul (I guess there’s a first for everything), but only up to a point.

Obama gave a very good speech and said some important things about race relationships which we’ve very seldom heard—from Democrats. For example:

In fact, a similar anger exists within segments of the white community. Most working- and middle-class white Americans don’t feel that they have been particularly privileged by their race… So when they are told to bus their children to a school across town; when they hear that an African American is getting an advantage in landing a good job or a spot in a good college because of an injustice that they themselves never committed; when they’re told that their fears about crime in urban neighborhoods are somehow prejudiced, resentment builds over time.

Amen. The thing is, however, that it’s somewhat obnoxious to hear liberal pundits celebrating Obama for speaking such hard truths and even comparing him to Lincoln, Roosevelt, etc. for having the guts to say things that a GREAT many black conservatives and others have already said over the years and been attacked for… because they weren’t following the left-wing liberal line and weren’t Democratic presidential nominees.

Obama gave a very good speech about race relations, and he should be commended for giving it. Others can decide whether such lofty talk really addresses, much less justifies, his long close relationship with a flaming racist. An open question.

But what I’m interested in is this, and it’s something I haven’t heard talked about yet:

How will Obama behave during the upcoming general election when accusations of racism and potential McCain-associations with people who’ve made questionable remarks about race start emerging?

We can be ASSURED that such attacks, allegations, and insinuations will come flying hot and heavy once Hillary is out of the way and Democrats and their media-allies can turn all of their ire on the Republican nominee and start running interference for Obama full time.

Will Obama continue to be so vocal in making excuses for alleged racists? If not, the hollowness of his remarks—made only to save his own bacon during a hard turn in his campaign—will be revealed for all to see. But he decides to be consistent and hold others to the same standard that he allows for himself, then he’ll have lost one of the main tools in the Democrats’ political arsenal.

Posted by: Loyal Opposition at March 19, 2008 9:43 PM
Comment #248517

Carolina
As far as church goes when a pastor starts spewing hate messages it’s time to leave. Just like those baptist people that dirupted military funerals a while back, THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO CALL FOR THAT. No my family, friends, are not prejudist. Obama does love the man, but he better hate the sin. Like I said Wright should have been disiplined by his denomination.

Posted by: KAP at March 19, 2008 10:07 PM
Comment #248521

Jim M

Re- Which leads me to the real issue I have with Mr. Obama. He’s so undefined.

It is not that he is undefined, it is that most who question him do not know how to properly label him. They are not familiar with a man who is willing and able to stand and recognize his heritage before the world while at the same time voicing the opinion that racism has no viable productive function in this world. That regardless of skin color or national heritage we are people first living on the same planet with the same needs. He recognizes the destructive and futile nature of ethnic hatred.

The problem is not that of definition, but for many it is that he will not make a commitment to white or black. I am suggesting that this is totally alien to many and very difficult for them to understand. It is that lack of a commitment to one race or the other that does very clearly define him. It says he can be a president for all Americans.

Posted by: RickIL at March 19, 2008 10:21 PM
Comment #248525

Wright’s denomination is the United Church of Christ, which combined the Evangelical Dutch Reformed churches with Congregationalist churches about 50 years ago. He probably served at the discretion of the congregation, or the board that runs it, and has retired anyway.

People just aren’t getting that Obama was an outsider to the black community in Chicago, because this is outside of their own experience.

Posted by: ohrealy at March 19, 2008 10:41 PM
Comment #248531

What I’m trying to figure out is this: when do we get to talk about about a wonderful Obama accomplishment that isn’t a SPEECH.

Posted by: Loyal Opposition at March 19, 2008 11:15 PM
Comment #248549

OK, Loyal Opp, you can talk about the Ethics Reform begun in the aftermath of the GOP’s losses in Congress sponsored by Obama. You can talk about his victory as a State Senator and then a U.S. Senator and his successful management of both those campaigns, if you want. You can discuss his maintenance of lead over Clinton which was supposed to be impossible just a few months ago, if you wish.

You can discuss the respect and accolades visited upon Obama by the likes of Joe Scarborough, Chris Matthews, Tucker Carlson, and Pat Buchanan, and other Republican’s references to Obama as the Democrat’s Reagan with public speaking magic and an inviting vision for a better America and future which connects with voters at a visceral level.

Any of those will do.

Posted by: David R. Remer at March 20, 2008 5:08 AM
Comment #248587

“I was a John Edwards fan.”
Posted by: Carolina at March 19, 2008 07:24 PM

That’s the problem Carolina, voting for someone because of his/her “star status” as a fan-atic. How about considering the candidates positions, experience, temperment, honesty, integrity, truth-telling, associates etc.?

I am a fan of some sports figures, actors, news writers and others but would never consider them presidential timber. Voting should be done with the brain, not with emotion.

Posted by: Jim M at March 20, 2008 11:53 AM
Comment #248591

With respect from the likes of Scarborough, Matthews, Carlson, and Buchanan, who needs the respect of actual Democrats who might vote for him. Buchanan is now calling Obama obtuse over the Rev Jeremiad thing.

Posted by: ohrealy at March 20, 2008 12:21 PM
Comment #248603

David

Thank you for your comments. I feel you are right in what you say. I grew up down south and still live there, you and I are probably about the same age. I am very familiar with the racism against blacks/african americans in the south and can honestly say that southern whites have little understanding of racism and the black experience.

Posted by: Carolina at March 20, 2008 12:48 PM
Comment #248615
You can discuss the respect and accolades visited upon Obama by the likes of Joe Scarborough, Chris Matthews, Tucker Carlson, and Pat Buchanan, and other Republican’s references to Obama as the Democrat’s Reagan with public speaking magic and an inviting vision for a better America and future which connects with voters at a visceral level.

Yes, more praise for his SPEECHES. Yippee.

Sure, he has successfully managed his campaigns—and has done so every time by giving good speeches. His accomplishments sure don’t have anything to with governing. As an Illinois Senator, he distinguished himself (when he wasn’t giving nice speeches) mainly for setting records for voting “present” instead of ever casting hard votes.

The Ethics Reform Package? Weak tea. 95 other senators also supported (and voted) for that. And who has been the main voice in the Senate for years now for ethics reform? Let me give you a hint. It isn’t Barack Obama.

Posted by: Loyal Opposition at March 20, 2008 1:56 PM
Comment #248651

Carolina, thank you for the reply and comment.

Loyal Opp., thank you for playing.

Ohrealy, Obama has Susan Eisenhauer, the Republican granddaughter of Ike, and former Republican Senator Lincoln Chaffee on TV just today (Hardball) endorsing Obama for president. Sorry, to ruin your day, but, that’s reality.

Posted by: David R. Remer at March 20, 2008 6:40 PM
Comment #248660

Where Have All of the Other People Gone?

After listening to all the ranting and raving concerning race in America I have to ask myself, “Where have all of the other people gone?” The last time I looked, America was divided into many more groups than black and white.
And with all of the references being made to America being a divided nation and how Obama is going to bring us all together, I feel compelled to remind him, and everyone else, that skin shade is not the only thing that divides us. So why then is it then that it is the only so-called division factor that is being played out in the media and cast in to all of the bigoted arguments.
If we are going to talk about race and gender, let’s be fair and call it what it really is, inequality. And while we are giving it a name, let’s be fair and throw everyone into the mix that are treated unfairly in this great democracy. That is the only way we are going to truly unite this nation and live up to the title of greatest nation on earth.
I do believe that African Americans are not treated fairly, but they are in good company. What about all other minority races? What about women, Homosexuals, children, poor people of all colors, disabled people, the earth and even animals. The list goes on and on. Why then do I not hear equality for all people being preached from the pulpit, used in political platforms or reported in the news? Why do we have to pass laws that prohibit discrimination based on these differences? Why would we not add an entire group of people to the list of those affected by hate crimes?
It’s true, Hilary has probably never been called the “N” word, but I am quite sure that Jeremiah Wright has never been called the “C” word, the “S” word, the “F” word or any other of the other words that shouldn’t be uttered in a civilized nation. Why then doesn’t Pastor Wright stick up for all of the downtrodden when he is God Damning the USA? Is the poor treatment of black people the only sin discussed in his bible? Perhaps he should be called the “S” word (selfish) or the “B” word (bigoted) or the “F” word (fanatic). A selfish, bigoted, fanatic. See how that works? I am quite sure he is the first one to stand in his pulpit and degrade Homosexuals based on some warped biblical translation/belief.
Do any of the candidates dare bring the issue of inequality to the forefront of this campaign?
Do any of the candidates dare bring up all of the taboo subjects that truly divide this nation and find a fair way to deal with all of them?
Do any of the candidates dare to stand up for the separation of church and state and make laws based on the freedoms stated in the constitution of this great country.
To do this you will need to really look at all of the ways this country is divided, not just 1.

-Dan Stiles_

Posted by: Dan Stiles at March 20, 2008 7:44 PM
Comment #248661

D R R, Chaffee was predictable, I was sruprised Hillary did so well in the RI primary. I don’t know much about Susan Eisenhower, http://www.saveamericastreasures.org/eisenhower.htm , but the Diebold connection on her bio is a little disturbing to me, and Loral Space Systems sounds like it might be part of the military industrial complex, with unwarranted influence, sought or unsought, but well connected in Washington DC.

You couldn’t ruin my day unless you peed in my beer, actually Malt Liquor from Poland.

Posted by: ohrealy at March 20, 2008 7:57 PM
Comment #248675

ohrealy, I understand that no evidence or fact could dissuade you from erroneously and falsely premised prejudgments. Ruining you day was a figure of speech. Never expected reality or evidence could ever do that to your day.

I am accustomed to the magnetic ability of the GOP to draw believers who need no fact, evidence, or reality to support their belief; confuse, or sway them. They are the pillars of the GOP. Dem’s have them too! No wonder our country is in such a mess.

Now we find out your Party’s government contractors have been accessing Obama’s passport records and the State Dep’t. covered it up hoping no one from the outside would notice. Oops! Then it happened twice more. No more covering this up. Three separate individuals after the same Privacy Act protected material from within Bush’s and Rice’s State Department since Jan. 9? And the State Dep’t. doesn’t know if it is the Chinese, Arabs, or Bush’s White House operatives and who else’s records have been accessed, because they didn’t turn it over to the IG the first time it happened, or the second, and with both contractors now fired, the IG can’t legally investigate.

There is still the third employee, who has not yet been fired, and whom the IG can investigate, and determine if the matter should be turned over to the Justice Dep’t. If they don’t, it leaves open the potential of the White House being behind the privacy act violations. If they do turn it over to Justice, what bet you wanna make Justice sits on it or reaches a dead end?

Can anyone say ‘WaterGate’? Republicans in power, what a nightmare.

Posted by: David R. Remer at March 20, 2008 9:49 PM
Comment #248688

D R R, confused much? I am a Democrat who voted for Obama twice in 2006, but support Hillary for the Democratic nomination. Obama is a noob, who should maybe get the VP nod. Now anyone who doesn’t want Obama is a Rbplcn? You are supposed to be an Independant, but are shamelessly pouring out the Obama Kool Aid. If he manages to persuade enough Democrats to give him the nomination, most likely McCain will be the next POTUS.

Posted by: ohrealy at March 20, 2008 10:30 PM
Comment #248737

A few points.

1) Obama’s pastor clearly is a bigot, maybe a racist. Clearly a progressive left wing liberal as well. Pictures of him with the Clinton’s have surfaced. He’s long preached far left politics from the pulpit and has been catered to by the democratic party as he runs a large black church and carries political weight.

2) Obama has now admitted (after first denying) that he has indeed heard Wright preaching this hateful bigotry. He admitted it because people were starting to call him a liar for denying it.

3) Obama sat there for 20 years and never said a word against it. Clearly he lacks leadership on this issue. That is, the issue of politically correct, Anti-White black hate. The hate he mentioned in his speech (as apparently a back handed way of giving justification). This is why the left teaches us blacks should hate us…because “we” made them slaves. Never mind there hasn’t been a slave in America for nearly 150 years.

The real issue here is that the democratic party has long enjoyed a status in black churches with black leaders of large churches “preaching” White hate and absolute support for the democratic party as the party to help them “get what they deserve” out of those nasty slave owning republicans. And the pork money flows to them in various ways.


Black Anti-White racism is politically correct. Cosby rails against it frequently. But it’s ingrained in the black culture. It’s like breathing air. It’s an excuse for failure and for remaining poor and angry. This culturalization of hate is why Obama had no problem accepting it for 20 years and supporting it with his Sunday offering dollars.

This is the conversation we need to have in America. Why this is wrong. This is why Obama hangs on to this bigoted group instead of denouncing them and leaving them.

The progressive left will treat this Black hate for Whites and the preaching of it like they treat their pro illegal-alien stance. Deny they support or that it exists while doing all they can do to support it.

Wouldn’t it have been great if we had heard that Obama had removed his family from such a church 20 years ago because he would not tolerate this bigoted anti-white message? But he does tolerate it, so his supporters are left to justify it and tell us that he MLK and JFK and his speech’s are the very words of God himself passing through the lips of Obama.

Posted by: Stephen at March 21, 2008 3:00 AM
Comment #248750

“Thank you for your comments. I feel you are right in what you say. I grew up down south and still live there, you and I are probably about the same age. I am very familiar with the racism against blacks/african americans in the south and can honestly say that southern whites have little understanding of racism and the black experience.”


Caroline,

You aren’t the only one here who grew up in the south. How can you possibly make such a blanket statement as above? You have no idea how much understanding I or any of my friends have of the black experience.

Posted by: BOHICA at March 21, 2008 9:21 AM
Comment #248822

“D R R, confused much? “

Not often. Thanks for your concern however.

“I am a Democrat who voted for Obama twice in 2006, but support Hillary for the Democratic nomination.”

You are a Democrat but won’t vote for Obama if he wins the nomination? Does that make you a Democrat, or an independent who votes for the candidate that will best meet YOUR expectations and hopes for government action and behavior?

Obama is the best candidate in a position to win and lead, IMO. That alone determines my voting decision quite regardless of the party which nominated them.

“Obama is a noob, who should maybe get the VP nod.”

That’s one opinion probably shared by many Clinton supporters. But, what a quandary their good gal, bad guy perspective puts them in as Democrats should Obama win the nomination. A noob or a McCain? Hmmm… what do you want to bet a percentage of those faced with such a dilemma simply stay home in November in election day. Ahh… the boxes people paint themselves in.

“Now anyone who doesn’t want Obama is a Rbplcn?”

No. Anyone who doesn’t want Obama but only Clinton is not a truly committed Democrat. Of course, I have a high regard for such folks who vote the best candidate as opposed to the whatever the Party throws up at them, like the GOP did with GW Bush, whom most Republicans now find fault with.

“You are supposed to be an Independant, but are shamelessly pouring out the Obama Kool Aid.”

I am an independent who has found the best candidate for me to vote and caucus for, regardless of Party affiliation. Your Kool Aid reference is a prejudiced comment leveled at anyone who doesn’t agree with you. It has no basis in fact or evidence, obviously, for you haven’t a clue what I imbibe around election time or any other.

“If he manages to persuade enough Democrats to give him the nomination, most likely McCain will be the next POTUS.”

Pure conjecture. Certainly hope you are proved wrong. McCain is only a slightly distorted mirror image of GW Bush. I fail to see how the majority of Americans are going to go for a Bush encore in the name of McCain. And I have my glasses on.

Posted by: David R. Remer at March 21, 2008 7:37 PM
Comment #248852

If Obama was white he would not have been still running after all of that scandal with his “uncle” pastor. We, the “white people”, cannot use the word “black” in public, only African-American; while on the other side, a person that attends an African-American racist church every Sunday and listens to the bias of anti-white preaching, can still be running for president!!! Do you really think Wright has preached that kind of preaching just that one time?
Obama said “the most segregated hour in American life occurs on Sunday morning”. I don’t think so! I never ever heard of any white priest preaching from the altar such racist ideas against blacks, or any other segments of the American population. Probably that is happening in Obama’s neck of the wood…
Well, if lefties (Kerry & Co.) succeed in hijacking the Democratic Party leadership, I can see that a lot of Hillary supporters would vote for McCain. Obama’s candidacy has been artificially blown out of all proportion. Does he really believe that he stands a chance to win the General Election? Everyone I know would vote Republican this time if Hillary is not going to be the nominee…
Obamatics forget that the majority of the US are not lefties. Bill Clinton knew this very well. That’s why he was able to build a centrist oriented coalition & won both elections.
Also, it was in Obama’s interest for Florida & Michigan not to rerun their primaries. Do not forget the majority of the voters in both of these states voted for Hillary. That’s why lefties are not interested in finding a solution. He knew full well he would lose both of them. So, how he is going to win without Florida & Michigan?
What a sad joke!!!

Posted by: ARBEN Camaj at March 22, 2008 4:58 AM
Comment #248866

Arben, see my reply to this same comment of yours in the Republican/Conservative column. Your comment definitely deserved a refutation.

Posted by: David R. Remer at March 22, 2008 8:09 AM
Comment #248880

I’ve have been very dissatisfied with the way the media has handled this. I feel so fooled and dumb to have believed the sound bites I heard on TV. After viewing the new video postings on YouTube and I see the entire sermon. Pastor wright was actually quoting Edward Peck a former US Ambassador who is white as saying “America’s chickens are coming home” A white guy said this, not the pastor.
The type of character assassination that has been dealt to this man is beyond words. Fox news and other news networks owes America, Pastor Wright and Mr. Obama a serious apology. Someone needs to get fired over this, I FEEL SO BETRAYED BY MY OWN TELEVISION.

The “Typical White Person” line if you listen to the entire sentence and not just edit it off there like the media has done. States, “The typical white persons reaction to race if often taken the wrong way”
Is that not true?

There is nothing derogatory in that statement. Everyone is fishing for something on this guy, when they couldn’t find something they make something up. This is why many more Republicans will vote for him in the fall.

Stop it already and lets get back on track. Take time out yourself to listen to the entire speech. You will see there is ZERO HATE in those speeches.It’s filled with historical facts. There is nothing Racist in the speeches and there is nothing Degrading Whites, or White men in the speeches. Please take a second and get the facts correct before you add another post. You will see you have been swindled as I have.

Recognize it for what it is, a political ploy to turn the white male vote away from Obama.

Posted by: Andrew Stone at March 22, 2008 2:11 PM
Comment #248937

BOHICA

You are right I should have said most southern whites. Although I have an empathy and understanding of the black experience down south, I feel that as a white person I can never fully understand or appreciate what an african-american person experiences. If you are able to do that good for you.

Jim M I was initially quite annoyed by your comments. I immediately assumed that you were suggesting that I had not bothered to educate myself on my candidate of chose simply because I used a simple word like “fan” but after much thought I decided that I was personalizing this way to much and that you were making a general comment about other people certainly not me. I am convinced that given the depth and intelligence of my frequent posts you can tell I am a highly intelligent person although a poor speller. I am sure my great intellect shines through in all my posts. So hince I take no offense at your comments and welcome your thoughts on the use of fan. I will include the definition of fan-“a person enhusiastic about a specified sport, pastime, or performer”. The definition of fanatic is “unreasonably enthusiastic or over zealous” hince my use of fan instead of fanatic. Although since John Edwards is not a sport, pastime or performer I will grant you that I used the term fan incorrectly and will in the future insure that I use terms as defined in the dictionary. Thank you for pointing this out to me.

Yea Barack-go team go, WIN, WIN, WIN!!! Yea Hillary-put some points on the board!!!

Posted by: Carolina at March 23, 2008 9:49 AM
Comment #248955

I am sure to get hauled over the coals for my remarks but here goes.

I in no way condone 911. I am just as sick about it as the next person. I don’t think that individually that anyone who died on 911 deserved to die.

I do think that we reap what we soe (not sure of correct spelling). The United States has had our fingers in the middle east and other countries for years (ie: the overthrow in Chile that put Pinochet in government, the Iran-contra affair, the overthrow in Iran that put the shan in power, noreiga, and the list goes on) I still ask myself if our government had not felt it necessary to meddle in other countries and try to put people in power that we supported whould 911 have occurred? I LOVE my country but I do not feel that it is perfect or that all the things my government does are moral.

Arben

I frequently hear white americans in politics and the media say racist things and some get held accountable and some not. What difference does it make whether we as white americans can use the word black in public or not? Also, I use the word black and sometimes I use the word African-American depending on what the person’s perference is. I am more than willing to do that and I try to be respectful of the black/African-American culture since I am a member of the ruling class and the race of repression and slavery. I don’t like what the minister said and feel it doesn’t help us learn to respect and value each other but I can not condemn him when I continue to hear racist rhetoric from white people. Repressed people tend to get angry and african-americans continue to be repressed. Things have improved since the days of my youth the 60’s and 70’s but as a country we still have a long way to go. If overlooking the racist ranting by the suppressed and using terms that they request I use when talking about them or addressing them helps make peace then so be it.

Posted by: Carolina at March 23, 2008 2:24 PM
Comment #248956

Dr. Rene, Just as you have served and protected this nation so has Jeremiah Wright as a Marine. And please take time out to view the new video’s on YouTube that show the entire sermon. Pastor Wright was quoting Edward Peck. Edward Peck is the one the said America’s chickens are coming home.

Further more please do not take away someone’s patriotism because of a disagreement. What is the point of using our freedom as the selling point of the war in Iraq, if when you come home that freedom is taken away from you, when you speak your mind. That I’m sure is not what you fought for. Clearly you are looking for an intense reason beyond policy to disregard the political possibilities of Mr. Obama.

9/11 is a tragic act. However lets not act as though we were just walking down the street, minding our own business and suddenly we are attacked because our freedom is so hated by a sect that hates our freedom.

As a proud American, I have to be able to say that without being called a witch (unpatriotic) for saying that.
If that’s what you want to go by then sure, you have your reason. Support whatever candidate you want. If you take time out to stand back and look at the policies and the possibilities of American politics.From race relations here at home, to the openness of possible communications with Iran, and Russia. From a hastiness to declare war on anyone, to a calmness of building our core respect so that any nation would be happy to join us in combat against whoever. You will see no other candidate is making that offer for America. This is the new politics that is needed in this new century. None of the other candidates can deliver that.

But alas, you’ve found your reason. An association with a former marine who has served his country and witnessed first hand the fury of her love against nothing more than his skin color. That association is enough for you to stall the progress of our nation. I’m so glad the youth will not agree with you.

Posted by: Andrew Stone at March 23, 2008 2:40 PM
Comment #250424

Dear dumbed-down Americans, whoever says we deserved 911 knows nothing about history. They only repeat the disgusting rhetoric of the left who hate this country.No one likes us ? Why sure, lets be more like the French, who were taken over in an instant by the Germans. No wait, lets be more like the Germans, who were responsible for the killing of millions of Russians, Europeans, Africans, Americans, shall I continue? The left screams “free Tibet!”, well, what are you willing to do about it while people there are being killed in the streets, and now what about Iraq, do they not deserve freedom too? And a message to that “never did anything and does not have a clue what to do other than talk and raise our taxes even higher than a Clinton”, Obama, the American Dream is to see the government OUT OF SIGHT! Not the bloated, corrupt, moneygrabbing gagle of crooks we have now! You people just sit idly by while these miserable politicians give all our SOCIAL SECURITY funds away to people who don’t deserve it and to any pet project they dream up! And they are not even part of the SS system to begin with!! They have,had a fiduciary responsibility to protct that money at all costs and they have given it all away so now we have NOTHING except current taxes to pay for it!!!! All of those corrupt politicians need to be arrested, their property and belongings taken away and everything put back into the social security system, which they have turned into the biggest SCAM in history!!! Time to do something about it!!!

Posted by: dave mcduffie at April 12, 2008 2:58 PM
Post a comment