Democrats & Liberals Archives

No Telecom Immunity

The FISA bill that does not include immunity for telecom companies who were spying on Americans has been rejected by the senate. The bill that includes immunity is under discussion and amendments to prevent immunity are being offered. The proceeding is coming to a climax on Monday when Senator Dodd is expected to filibuster.

We must not allow telecom companies to be given immunity because they were following the corrupt orders of the administration. They did wrong.

Imagine what would happen to an indiidual that did the same thing. Would anybody propose that he be given immunity from prosecution?

If telecoms get immunity it will demonstrate that the rule of law is not worth much. It will show that the administration could get away with canceling the civil rights of Americans. It will indicate that democracy is on the wane in America.

Do your part for American democracy. Phone or write your senators and tell them to support Senator Dodd's filibuster on Monday.

Posted by Paul Siegel at January 25, 2008 4:22 PM
Comments
Comment #243858

Paul,

While agreeing with you wholeheartedly, I would point out that individuals could get immunity in a like situation if they agreed to testify against those higher up in the food chain. Just a thought. The diference being that in most cases of immunity, the higher up does not have the power to pardon.

Posted by: Old Grouch at January 25, 2008 5:07 PM
Comment #243882

I would not really blame the telecom companies for giving in to the importunities of the federal government, after the whole nation caved to the the Neocon agenda of war in Iraq.

Posted by: ohrealy at January 25, 2008 8:25 PM
Comment #243900

This is one Bill Bush is not going to get his way, I hope. I truly hope the Congress forces this overdue-to-be-impeached president to veto the very bill he wanted to attach a signing statement to, in order to continue spying on whom he and his cronies please to.

One rule of law for all. Not one for Bush and another for the rest of us.

Posted by: David R. Remer at January 25, 2008 9:32 PM
Comment #243920

I’ve been disturbed by Bush’s actions with regards to POW’s or enemy combatants, Homeland Security, perpetual war, and executive signing statements, but truthfully this NSA listening issue doesn’t bother me so much.

It is a reality that electronic communication has been monitored from day one. My father worked for a university research department in electronics. As a child he always told me that you can expect no privacy in a telephone conversation.

Wiretaps, illegal and legal have existed since the first telephone cables were layed in the ocean floors. Satellite imagery and listening devices have been the in the stories of espionage since I can remember.

In Washington’s time intercepts of posted messages and inside men were used against Britian and the Rebels.

No matter what laws you put in place, people will be driven to spy. It is human nature. The use of that info to persecute people is what I worry about. FISA is little more than a rubber stamp, anyway. The FBI did it under Hoover, Nixon did it. Reagan did it in Iran Contra against peace activists in Dallas. I’m sure it still goes on daily.

None of these cases were ever prosecuted, which I find much more troubling than allowing the NSA to filter data transmissions. It will happen whatever provisions are made, and in many cases it should. Defending, punishing and eliminating wrongful persecution is a much more realistic and fruitful way to spend our efforts than railing against this arcane and window dressing type legislation.

Posted by: googlumpugus at January 26, 2008 2:56 AM
Comment #243923

googlumpus, you should worry! The books, 1984 and Brave New World by G. Orwell and A. Huxley more than adequately explain why. Spying on one’s international enemies is required. Spying on one’s citizens is a threat to democracy, liberty, and citizen autonomy to remove individual’s from government. Polling is a legal and voluntary form of spying. But, it is also why impeachment of Bush was never in the cards. Democrats spied into the hearts of voters via polling and learned that obligation and duty would not help them politically in 2008.

Yes, you should be worried, when even legal and voluntary spying has such potential to shred the intents and defines of our U.S. Constitution’s structural definition for government integrity.

Posted by: David R. Remer at January 26, 2008 5:02 AM
Comment #243924

The problem with lawyers is that they can sue and intimidate even when no law is broken.

If you found out that a powerful lawyer was suing you AND you were sure you did nothing wrong would you still be worried? I would be.

If the firms broke some law, let the law be used, but do not put clever lawyers to work looking to make new rules and obligations ex-post-facto. Of course the idea of ex-post-facto laws is specifically prohibited in the Constitution. That is why some people want to release the legal vigilantes.

Posted by: Jack at January 26, 2008 8:26 AM
Comment #243934

government of the corporations, by the corporations, for the corporations

Posted by: Mike the Cynic at January 26, 2008 1:54 PM
Comment #243941

David,

What I am saying is spying on Americans is not new.

The age of digitization is something new and massive data bases are new, but knowledge of what is going on within a neighborhood is not.

When people feel threatened their radar goes up, and little escapes their notice. Privacy doesn’t exist in small towns. Everyone knows your business. This is China’s model for social control. This is how spying worked in 1776.

This is how the founding fathers, a number of whom were smugglers, operated under British radar, and how terrorists can and will operate in America. You can still live without an electronic footprint, but if you raise suspicion, you will be tracked.

Sympathizers will hide things they sympathize with.

The difference really comes down to how our court systems operate. Repeatedly in times of crisis America falls under totalitarian control of the population. To some degree our courts protect us, but often they do not. That is where we need to watch and be vocal.

This focus on NSA activity, is misguided, in my opinion. It’s always been there, and now it may have bigger resources. It’s what is done with the information by elected gate keepers that matters.
This mostly seems to me political posturing against idiot Bush. In reality, I believe this activity will be unaffected by all the alarmist discussions going on.

When you begin arresting pedophiles for innocent interaction on the internet, or locking up professors for political opposition or associations, or using electric bills to search for marijuana grow operations, you are using data to persecute. These are more serious violations of privacy, in my opinion, than NSA data bases.

We’ve done all those recently, yet I don’t hear political outcries.

Posted by: googlumpugus at January 26, 2008 7:32 PM
Comment #243996

I forced myself to listen to Dick Cheney’s plea to make the FISA laws permanent and without amendment and with immunity for violating them.

I sure hope few others suffered through it as I did. Dick Cheney should be put out to pasture, 7 years ago. He makes the neo-cons look like the good guys.

Posted by: David R. Remer at January 27, 2008 2:29 PM
Comment #243997

googlumpugus said: “What I am saying is spying on Americans is not new.”

That’s true. The Constitution permits all manner of invasion into privacy to include deprivation of life itself, WITH LEGITIMATE DUE PROCESS!

Our nation has struggled to live up to that aspect of the Bill of Rights, from its inception and failed. Don’t you think after a couple centuries of being failures at our own Constitution, we should attempt to get it right for a change, instead of using our past as apology for repeating it?

NSA databases of communications in which American citizens are participants without oversight and due process are the seedbed of authoritarian and dictatorial powers of the future. One only needs those databases and a national emergency to impose martial law, and under the cloak of martial law, all manner of political opponents can ‘disappear’ by the time the crisis is over, and only supporters of the administration are left to stand witness.

I am 58 years old, and I have witnessed martial law imposed in America dozens of times. In these times of open borders and terrorist infiltrators and illegal aliens, it is only a matter of time before it will be imposed again in response to additional terrorist attacks. Depending on the perceived emotional needs of those in office at the time, the NSA databases and executive authority to act secretly, could be used in ways unimagined by civilized citizens today. And likely will be if leaders consider the Constitutional constraints to be designed only for peaceful secure times.

1984, Brave New World, Animal Farm, read them. They are every bit as relevant today as they were after WWII when challenging elitist power structures became a mainstay in human history and world politics.

Posted by: David R. Remer at January 27, 2008 2:38 PM
Comment #244004

I think HBO’s The Wire with George Pelecanos and others, would be more relevant than Huxley and Orwell, about the telecom subject, based on actual police investigations in Baltimore. The telecom companies resisted the local governments and the locals appealed to the feds to apply pressure and provide equipment to monitor cellphone conversations.

Posted by: ohrealy at January 27, 2008 4:20 PM
Comment #244021

Paul,

I sent flame mail to both Senators.

Posted by: Ray Guest at January 27, 2008 7:40 PM
Comment #244064

David,

I haven’t read those novels, but I will make an effort to do so, based upon your recommendation. I am familiar with their themes.

As long as we do have freedom of speech, a somewhat free press, and a healthy distrust of government, I am not overly worried about us devolving into totalitarianism. That being said, I would never advooate complacency about it. The reason I value candidates like Ron Paul, and posters like Rhinehold, is not that they always have the right context of issues as I see them, but that they question all authority.

I don’t think you can stop a powerful government in the age of digitization, and it appears even well before, from gaining access to all kinds of data. What we must do is fight panic and “martial law” attempts to deprive of us our inalienable rights. Privacy while inferred by many from the Constitution, is something that seems to exist in polite and civilized situations,and is something many of us value, but I’m not really sure it exists in the day to day struggle of survival.

Orealy, I don’t have HBO, but maybe I can steal it on p2p :)

Posted by: googlumpugus at January 28, 2008 11:30 AM
Comment #244067

Googl:

“When you begin arresting pedophiles for innocent interaction on the internet, or locking up professors for political opposition or associations, or using electric bills to search for marijuana grow operations, you are using data to persecute. These are more serious violations of privacy, in my opinion, than NSA data bases.”

The last time I looked, child pornography, even on the internet is still illegal. So how can there be “innocent interaction” as you allege? I have also watched the news very carefully over the last 5 decades and do not recall any gulags being built, much less any dissidents ( college professors) being shipped to them. Where are you finding this lunacy? Please be specific if you can, which I doubt.

David:

“I am 58 years old, and I have witnessed martial law imposed in America dozens of times. “

Please, I expect better from you. Martial law has not been imposed on this country since the civil war. Martial law is generally accepted as the suspension of habeas corpus. You may be referring to “state of emergency” which is hardly the same thing. As an example, martial law was not declared in New Orleans (except nominally by Ray Nagin) since there is nothing in the states constitution even mentioning it. A state of emergency was declared and why not? Would you prefer the looters just run rampant through the streets? You act as though we are constantly fighting the jack boot of imperialism off our necks. You keep saying it exists and keep posting it here yet every time you post it here, no one knocks at your door to make you answer for it.

You folks on the left are constantly screaming that your rights are being violated on a daily basis but can never give an example of one instance where it has occurred. By the “logic” of your argument, the newspapers would be filled with accounts of political opponents being charged with innocent interaction with children while growing marijuana in the basement and being sent to reeducation camps in Idaho. All made possible by that perennial favorite of prosecutors (persecutors, if you listen to googl) everywhere, martial law and the patriot act.

Give us a legitimate example of it or give it a rest.

Posted by: Beirut Vet at January 28, 2008 12:20 PM
Comment #244068

Ray Guest:

Lenin called American liberals “usefull idiots”
Congratulations on your new found “usefullness”.

Posted by: Beirut Vet at January 28, 2008 12:26 PM
Comment #244127

Beirut Vet,

As to pedophiles being locked up for innocent internet interaction I was refering to MSNBC’s Te catch a predator. Several of their cases have been thrown out of court, after locking up these supposed pedophiles for entrapment.


As to proffessor’s being locked up, there were a couple of cases I was refering to, one was a radical Muslim in Florida for contributions made ot or operating a charity which was deemed terrorist funding, but the scrutiny came because of his radical politics. There was also the case in either Oregon or Washington, I believe of a professor/attorney locked up because of his defense of Muslims and just plain stupid police work, which associated him with terrorism ( I think they used a fingerprint mis-ID-ed)

There was also the persecution of the Colorado professor who said the WTC financiers killed in 911 were “little Hitlers”. He was jailed, as I recall, but fired on trumped up charges even thought he was tenured.

To defend David’s claim, Martial Law is declared everytime there is a small disaster somewhere. In 1973 in Xenia, Ohio, my bithplace, a tornado struck and Martial Law was declared. The National Gaurd was deployed, access to town was limited to Driver’s with local addresses, a curfew was imposed and shoot to kill looters policy was in effect.

Posted by: googlumpugus at January 29, 2008 7:55 AM
Comment #244128

oops I meant the Colorado prof wasn’t jailed…

Posted by: googlumpugus at January 29, 2008 7:57 AM
Comment #244146

Googl:

The Colorado prof, Ward Churchill was NEVER jailed. He was fired for professional misconduct. This is from the Denver Post.

“Last month, an investigative subcommittee concluded that Churchill repeatedly fabricated his research, plagiarized others’ work and strayed from the “bedrock principles of scholarship,” reports the Denver Post.”

This does not sound like he was fired for his political views but was fired because he was a lazy, sloppy fraud.

Oh, and by the way, he is now back at the U. of C., so much for academic standards.

As for your muslim prof, you even admit in your last post that he was jailed for his suspected terrorist funding, not because of his political opposition that you allege in your previous post. So which is it? Is it because of his ties to terrorism or his political views? Want to place a bet on which got him busted?

“There was also the case in either Oregon or Washington, I believe of a professor/attorney locked up because of his defense of Muslims”

Well, which is it, Washington or Oregon? You BELIEVE someone was locked up? You consider this proof? If someone was locked up for merely supporting muslims the outcry from this nation (and myself) would be deafening. Again you even admit in your post that there was some sort of terrorist implication. This is hardly anything that could be considered evidence of the outrageous claims that you are making in your posts. Try removing the emotion from your writing and substitute some research, logic and common sense.

As for Xenia, Ohio, MY research found that a state of emergency was declared, NOT martial law. I could find no evidence of orders to shoot to kill anyone. I think this may just be perpetuation of urban legend on your part. Habeas corpus was not suspended, no one was jailed for no cause, no one was held without due process. Non of the common standards for martial law were EVER met there. But hey, nice try anyway.

Posted by: Beirut Vet at January 29, 2008 12:37 PM
Comment #244148

Googl:

I remember the MSNBC bit you referred to. These scumbags showed up at the home of a thirteen year old girl with booze and CONDOMS, per her request. Does this qualify as innocent interaction to you? Are you telling me you are actually defending these perverts?

Where is the proof that these cases were thrown out because of entrapment? This is the way that these criminals are commonly caught, by setting them up with what they believe are vulnerable teenagers. And why not? Would you prefer these scumbags have unrestricted access to YOUR daughter?

Posted by: Beirut Vet at January 29, 2008 12:45 PM
Comment #244227

Beirut Vetone.

First, we do have the presumption of innocence in this country, due to our Constitution, which you seem to wish have revoked. It’s easy and popular to hate anyone labeled a pedophile, whether guilty or not,and a TV show is not a court of law with sworn testimony and requiremnts like truthfulness.

There has been questions about MSNBC paying people and groups used in these prosecutions where monetary gain and ratings may have been a motive rather than honest investigation. Some have stuck, others dismissed.

Having made those completely obvious caveats I’ll let you search for the links. Here’s one . Here’s another

I made the correction on the typo about Ward Churchill before your post, thanks for reading.

I’m glad to hear Churchill is back, perhaps jurisprudence works after all.

Your presumption is guilt, of course, irregardless of legal outcome, precisely because these are unpopular aspects of culture. No bias on your part. No siree!

Hang ‘em first then ask questions…does that about sum up your feelings?…I think I made my point, simply by your post.

As to Xenia, Ohio. I was there. Martial Law was declared in the media, at least. City officials did not refute it. The National Guard was there and armed. It was made quite clear looters would be shot, although I suspect that was more bluff than threat. A Curfew was enforced for at least several days. I skirted the National Guard checkpoints because I didn’t have a Xenia driver’s license, and I knew the town, having grown up there. We parked on the outskirts and walked in through a nursery near a friends house that was undamaged. I went to check on my sister’s boyfriend who still lived there, since phone lines were down and my sister was freaking out in Cincinnati, where we were living at the time. I was in town the morning after the tornado struck the previous evening around 4 or 5 pm.
As a technical legal matter whether or not Martial Law was actually declared I don’t know, it may not have been, but the streets were patrolled by National Guardsmen, not police. When someone points a weapon at you, you say yessir, you don’t start questioning whether proper legal procedures have been taken. But then I must be lying, because you are a better judge than the courts, my life experiences, or anyone.

Then there was that little thing called Kent State:

MONDAY, MAY 4, 1970

At 11 a.m., about 200 students gathered on the Commons. Earlier that morning, state and local officials had met in Kent. Some officials had assumed that Gov. Rhodes had declared Martial Law to be in effect—but he had not. In fact, martial law was not officially declared until May 5. Nevertheless, the National Guard resolved to disperse any assembly.

I think a few civilians died in that one didn’t they? There was this song…4 dead in Ohio, I vaguely remember playing on radio…. I wonder if those bystanders got Habeus Corpus?


Of course there is the guy from Canada that was turned over to the US and was tortured, and then oops, found out to be innocent and misidentified. Did Fox miss that story, too?

Most of these cases have been rather prominent in the news. I’m guessing you may only watch Fox. If you don’t want to google the stories…well I doubt I’ll convince you that malicious prosecution ever occurs anyway…since you clearly side with knuckle dragging, neo facist conservatives….so what’s the point?

Hell, I don’t have a clue, I’m a liberal. I actually believe in due process.

BTW, thanks for the stereotypes and slurs, and your welcome, in return.

Posted by: googlumpugus at January 30, 2008 6:25 AM
Comment #244228

Beirut Vet,

Just a note, as I did some more research on Martial Law. Perhaps you took that to mean only a National Declaration, that wasn’t the context to which I, nor I believe David, was refering.

To Wit:

In the United States, martial law has been instituted on the national level only once, during the Civil War, and on a regional level only once, during WORLD WAR II. Otherwise, it has been limited to the states. Uprisings, political protests, labor strikes, and riots have, at various times, caused several state governors to declare some measure of martial law.

Posted by: googlumpugus at January 30, 2008 7:01 AM
Comment #244244

Googl:

I never once said that due process was not needed here or that anyone should be denied it. That there are no prosecutions proves that the system is constantly being looked at. I was taking exception to your quote that these were innocent interactions which anyone with half a brain could see that they were not. In their subsequent interviews after their arrests, they all admitted, “I have a problem, I can’t help it”. Enough untainted evidence or proper procedures being followed is for the courts to figure out, which they obviously did. The fact that no prosecutions took place does not make what they did “innocent interactions”. It just meant that we cannot prosecute those particular offenses. Nice try to place the jack boot on me. That you assumed those things about me shows where the jack boot belongs. If the jack boot fits, you should wear it.

“I’m glad to hear Churchill is back, perhaps jurisprudence works after all”

Again, THERE WAS NO COURT CASE FOR THIS! Jurisprudence had nothing to do with this, it was never in the courts. . It was the university’s own process to root out their own frauds.

“As to Xenia, Ohio. I was there. Martial Law was declared in the media, at least. City officials did not refute it. The National Guard was there and armed.”

Just because the media declares something, that makes it true? They can call it what they like but it is still just a state of emergency. Just because the national guard is there, it does not mean that martial law was declared, just a state of emergency. Sure, Kent State evokes a lot of emotion (essential to the liberal argument) but it was still just a state of emergency.

And why not bring in the national guard to protect the innocent and law abiding? Would you just leave them there to fend for themselves after a disaster like your sister’s boyfriend? Is he alive today because the guard kept things safe? You still have not addressed the fact that martial law was not declared and the national guard is needed in these situations, you just want to point your finger and scream “MARTIAL LAW!”. Should we never help those in need because you are terrified of black helicopters? Your arguments are nothing short of ludicrous.

Posted by: Beirut Vet at January 30, 2008 12:35 PM
Comment #244299

Beirut Vet,

OK let’s take this back to the train that you derailed.

Do maliciouus prosecutions occur? Yes.

Give me an example, I gave you several.


Has Martial Law been declared for riots, disasters etc.? Yes

Kent state is documented. Xenia is not, probably because it is a narrowly known event and waaaay before the internet. (Athough there was an ethernet which allowed Universities to communicate and share data, which I was exposed to, in college, a few miles north of Xenia)

I realize you know much more than anyone that was present, so keep arguing your futile and wrong headed points, and please argue with an armed National Guardsman about his authority, just for fun.

Yes, Beirut Vet, there are evil pedophiles. That does not mean malicious prosecution never occurs or doesn’t occur more often in a heated political, or TV rating sweeps against drunk drivers, communists, Muslim terrorists, pedophiles, drug wars, or whatever is fashionable to you today.


Thank you for your soapbox rant against Liberals and their favorite evil things.

Now, how about addressing my point that it is more significant to worry about overzealous and politically driven prosecutions, than fret over the NSA fishing through data streams?


I know, I’m a commie liberal. How could that possibly have been my point? A little reading before ranting would be useful.

Oh yeah, and the point that you are dead wrong about Martial Law and that David was correct.

But thanks again for reminding us all that there are real criminals, and just prosecutions. We didn’t know that….. and that Fox news is a poor news source and probably rots your brain.

Posted by: googlumpugus at January 30, 2008 11:08 PM
Comment #244414

Googl:

“Do maliciouus prosecutions occur? Yes.

Give me an example, I gave you several.”

You gave me NONE! Each of the cases you cited had terrorist implications, nowhere is it even alleged (except by you) that these were politically motivated prosecutions.

“Your presumption is guilt, of course, irregardless of legal outcome, precisely because these are unpopular aspects of culture. No bias on your part. No siree!”

I do not get to determine their guilt, I am merely stating that your assertion that their “interaction ” was “innocent” is nothing short of laughable. That this is the only examples you can give of your assertion of politically motivated prosecutions makes my point nicely, thank you.

” What we must do is fight panic and “martial law” attempts to deprive of us our inalienable rights.”

This is from your original post. You keep claiming that you give examples of this, but you have not come up with one. Even if you stretch states of emergency as examples of martial law, which they are clearly not, You still can’t come up with anyone being deprived of their inalienable rights.

“Now, how about addressing my point that it is more significant to worry about overzealous and politically driven prosecutions, than fret over the NSA fishing through data streams?”

I have been addressing your point, but your ideology and fear of what you do not understand keep getting in your way. It would be more significant to worry about overzealousness if this were a problem, which you still cannot prove. If this were true, the GW Bush hating media would be all over it. 24/7 news coverage of it would be demanding that it cease now. I for one would be demanding that it stop. But it just is not there.

We do agree on one thing though, NSA fishing through data streams as alarming is a non-starter.

“I know, I’m a commie liberal. How could that possibly have been my point? A little reading before ranting would be useful.”

It is your original rant (without any reading, forethought or facts) that started this exchange. Your projecting will not work here.

Posted by: Beirut Vet at February 1, 2008 11:48 AM
Comment #244451

Beirut Vet:

” What we must do is fight panic and “martial law” attempts to deprive of us our inalienable rights.”

Ummm…not my rant.

Maybe that explains the disconnect.


As to malicious prosecutions, are you really that naive?

The Canadian computer consultant, detained on suspicion of terrorism in 2002 and sent to Syria where he was tortured and jailed for 10 months, was cleared by a Canadian commission investigating his case last week. The report of Justice Dennis O’Connor found that flawed intelligence about Arar, passed by the Royal Canadian Mounted Police to U.S. officials, likely contributed to the 2002 decision to deport the Muslim Canadian citizen.

“There is no evidence to indicate that Mr. Arar has committed any offence or that his activities constitute a threat to the security of Canada,” O’Connor concluded in his exhaustive report (PDF).

Why are there so many black crack users serving long felony terms in comparison to white suburban cocaine users? Is it because there is more crack than cocaine use? Is it because crack is more addictive and worse for you? Or is it political persecution?

Do men or women serve longer terms for pedophilia?


When a person is investigated, arrested and run through the legal system he is being prosecuted. It may not include a formal charge, but it is none the less a prosecution. I have included such cases. I’ve included some with no convictions, such as the professor in Florida.

Jailed Palestinian Professor Sami Al-Arian to Be Deported After Prosecutors Fail to Convict Him on a Single Charge Federal authorities have decided to deport Palestinian activist and professor Sami Al-Arian after failing to convict him on charges he helped lead the Palestinian militant group Islamic Jihad. We speak with reporter John Sugg who has been tracking the case for over a decade


Is Hamass a charitable organization or a terrorist group?

When a Dallas area peace activitist group run by a group of church members is investigated on Tax Evasion charges because they oppose Iran Contra, that is political persecution.

When a professor expounds on a white hot touchstone like 911 in an unpopular way and is suddenly pressured as “performance issue” that is political persecution.

When blacks are arrested for sitting at a lunch counter and charged with disturbing the peace, that is political persecution.

When an attorney in Oregon suddenly finds himself accused of blowing up trains in Spain because he defends Muslims, that is political persecution.

When men in white robes and pointed hats hang some “strange fruit”. It is political persecution.

When Jews are rounded up for being a drag on society and being ratlike vermin, it isn’t political persecution,it’s just cleaning up vermin from the streets.

“No, it isn’t,” says you. It’s criminal prosecution. They were bad people and needed to be punished.

I’m curious, how do you think political persecution occurs?


Again, you should know about these cases. You should be able to recognize politically motivated persecutions and prosecutions. It’s seems neither is the case. All’s fine with the world.

I’m not saying it is rampant. I’m saying it’s what we need to be vigilant about. Perhaps one only needs to be reminded of Duke’s Lacross team to understand malicious political prosecution. These are the cases that make headlines because they are corrected or caught. To be sure many more slide by unnoticed.

Here in Texas, the Houston Police, Dallas Police and the DPS (Highway Patrol) have been caught fabricating evidence over periods of years. All three are in the process of trying to rehabilitate their images. It is foolish to believe the D.A.s offices had no clue. None of them will be prosecuted, however. (Houston’s DA is now in trouble for deleting E-mails and contempt of court)


Posted by: googlumpugus at February 1, 2008 8:30 PM
Comment #244473

Googl:

“” What we must do is fight panic and “martial law” attempts to deprive of us our inalienable rights.”

Ummm…not my rant. “

Are you now trying to deny what you just said a few days ago? Comment 244064, 1/28/08 11:30 am. Go back and read your OWN words again, I DID!

Mr Arar?
Complain to the Canadians, yourown country did not send him there. And your whole point is about how imperialistic and fascist your own country is, right?

Cocain use prosecutions as political persecution?
Are you kidding me?

Sami al-arian?
Did the New York public school system teach you your reasoning skills? He pleaded guilty to conspiracy to help the terrorist organization Islamic Jihad and AGREED to be deported in exchange for not being prosecuted on the remaining charges that he was found guilty of.

“When blacks are arrested for sitting at a lunch counter and charged with disturbing the peace, that is political persecution.”

Racial, not political. And it hasn’t happened for over 40 years.

“When Jews are rounded up for being a drag on society and being ratlike vermin, it isn’t political persecution,it’s just cleaning up vermin from the streets.”

What planet is this from? Maybe Nazi Germany? In case you may have missed this, they were defeated 63 years ago. Now go ahead and tell me this takes place today in my country.

“Perhaps one only needs to be reminded of Duke’s Lacross team to understand malicious political prosecution.”

There was nothing political about this case. This was a good example of race baiting and class warfare running rampant.

“When a Dallas area peace activitist group run by a group of church members is investigated on Tax Evasion charges because they oppose Iran Contra, that is political persecution.”

No, that is tax evasion.

You need to change the brand of foil you use for a hat.

Posted by: Beirut Vet at February 2, 2008 11:12 AM
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