Democrats & Liberals Archives

Protecting You from Global Warming

This Republican Administration is a fierce protector of American citizens. This is why we are at war in Iraq. This is why we need torture to see what our enemies are up to. This is why we can’t allow too much judicial review for Guantanamo detainees, we must have wiretapping of Americans and we must curtail some rights for the greater good.

The administration's protection effort does not stop there. It keeps its most important deliberations secret so as not to get you worried. If you were worried you may not be able to pursue happiness. That would be bad. The administration guards you and all citizens from this trouble.

Because of its excessive concern for your health and well-being, the administration was a little slow to admit that global warming is a problem. We should be thankful for this consideration. But at least one official, Dr. Julie Gerberding, was getting worried and she thought Americans may want to know what to expect should global warming come. So she testified before a congressional committee:

Today, Dr. Julie Gerberding, director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, testified before the Senate Environment and Public Works Committee on the “Human Impacts of Global Warming.” Gerberding told the committee that global warming “is anticipated to have a broad range of impacts on the health of Americans,” but gave few specifics, instead focusing on CDC’s current preparation plans.

Why "few specifics"? According to the news article, a CDC official said:

It [Gerberding's report] was eviscerated.

Dr. Gerberding had a long list of possible health problems. The administration decided that Americans would be too frightened with this information. So it decided that it was better for Americans not to know. The doctor was not censored. She was merely advised to tone her report down for the greater good.

A lot of liberals are complaining about this. They do not care to protect you from global warming the way this administration does. This is an administration of truly compassionate conservatives.

Posted by Paul Siegel at October 24, 2007 5:00 PM
Comments
Comment #236869

Inhofe Warns of Global Warming Laws

Inhofe implied that she was distracting members with studies of what might happen from global warming rather than focusing on “what will happen if we legislate global warming.” Inhofe believes that any mandatory cap on greenhouse gas emissions will bear too great a cost for the economy for too little benefit.

Those Republicans, they’re right on top of this problem, aren’t they?

They’re still stonewalling. Scientists are saying that it’s worse than originally thought. But, the administration is saying, lets not worry the folks, they may want us to do something.

Posted by: womanmarine at October 24, 2007 5:50 PM
Comment #236870

Given the plethora of horrendous problems Bush is going to hand off to the next President, Obama may end up thanking his lucky stars Hillary got the nomination.

Posted by: David R. Remer at October 24, 2007 5:53 PM
Comment #236873

You know, I could get excited about all this global warming hubbub if I believed that man could either predict or control the weather.

Posted by: Pam at October 24, 2007 5:59 PM
Comment #236877

Pam,
Weather is not the same as climate.

Humans do affect the weather already. For example, a city creates a rain shadow. Clouds can be seeded for rainfall. And so on.

Models are not perfect. Yet models are obviously useful as predictive devices, for almost any undertaking you would care to name. Many climate models have been developed by the top research institutes in the world, including Lawrence Livermore Labs, the Max Planck Institute in Germany, the Hadley Institute in the UK, and elsewhere, using the most powerful computers in the world.

All show the same- Global Warming, with the first and most pronounced effects showing up in the far northern latitudes.

Hard evidence supports the accuracy of these models.

Posted by: phx8 at October 24, 2007 6:23 PM
Comment #236896

womanmarine

“There has been no time to analyze the text of this bill, or for members of the committee to obtain input from stakeholders concerned about how the bill will impact them,” said Inhofe, “or for economists to model its impacts on the competitiveness of the American economy.”

What a shame, the people of this entire world, not just Americans, are very likely in dire peril. And it seems that this catastrophe is approaching much more rapidly than originally believed. If this whole scenario pans out as predicted its effect on the economy will be the least of our worries. Yet our president and his money minded friends find it imperative that we spend many hundreds of billions in pursuit of oil. But it is that very oil that is the main catalyst of greenhouse gases. What a precarious dilemma they are caught in. To prosper or tackle the problems of a changing world in which there may no longer be enough food or water to maintain the earths inhabitants. Of course the super wealthy will be fine because they will control the resources and be able to afford the exorbitant prices which will surely result as shortages occur.

The science is good. What is not exact is the predicted rate of change. It could be accelerated or a bit slower. It may or may not be man made, or maybe it is natural and is being accelerated by man. It is happening and it is creating immediate repercussions. Yet we dawdle over how this will affect profits for the most wealthy while our environment is in rapid decline. Something is seriously wrong with this picture.

Posted by: RickIL at October 24, 2007 10:05 PM
Comment #236906

Pam- Check out Harrp Antenna, You may be surprised

at what your Gov. can do.

Posted by: -DAVID- at October 25, 2007 2:16 AM
Comment #236930

Thus saith the Lord: “While the earth remaineth seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease. (Oh, I left out the part about how as a result of man’s idiot activities, it’s going to heat up until the point that the earth’s icecaps are going to melt, so if I were you, I’d stay away from the coastlines). - Genesis 8:22 Pam’s Version

Posted by: Pam at October 25, 2007 11:49 AM
Comment #236933

Now, I knew that man can seed clouds. But what I didn’t know is that man is making clouds now. Can man make a cloud now, or did I miss something? And, if man can make a cloud, then couldn’t they have used man-made clouds over Southern California a few days ago? I mean, they could have put clouds over Southern California and then seeded them to make enough rain to put out those terrible wildfires, saving a lot of heartache and destruction. Am I behind the times, or what? Are men making clouds now? If so, then that’s great. Oh, and another thing. If man can make clouds and rain, wouldn’t that bring the temperature down? Wouldn’t that end global warming? I’m not saying that man doesn’t need to end his filth-producing industrial activities. And, man does needs to eliminate his filth-producing driving, which is never going to happen. But if man could make it rain several more days in the year, that would reduce the average global temperature and thereby eliminate global warming. But that’s just me. I don’t really know weather.

Posted by: Pam at October 25, 2007 12:19 PM
Comment #236935

Pam,

The left has been tryind to sell that ugly truck for decades. In the early days it was global cooling and the public didn’t buy it. They done a quick paint job and renamed it acid rain (I think Prince was popular at the time but I’m not sure.). The ugly truck still didn’t sell so they painted it again and renamed it global warming which was too close to global cooling and it didn’t last long. They hustled up a big ad campaign and changed the name once again to climate change. It’s STILL the same UGLY TRUCK.

Posted by: tomd at October 25, 2007 12:31 PM
Comment #236941

tomd,

Thanks, I’m so glad to hear it. If I didn’t know better, this global warming stuff would be scaring the you-know-what out of me. But, I’ve heard of types that use fear on people because it’s easier that way, when you want to control hundreds of millions of people. They think of us as like herding sheep. Because there are so many people, it becomes hard to control them when they aren’t all thinking alike and are all going off in different directions. I guess that’s what that “Red Scare” and Communism was all about, too. It seems they always have to have something to scare the people with. Now that Communism is gone, it’s got to be something else, like “global warming” or “climate change.” I heard from the guy that came up with the new term that “global warming” didn’t sound frightening enough. The people, and me, too, thought it sounded like a good thing. I thought “global warming” sounded kind of warm and fuzzy, myself. So, they changed it to “climate change,” thinking that people would take more action to eliminate it. Turns out, it doesn’t even exist, anyway.

Posted by: Pam at October 25, 2007 1:46 PM
Comment #236943

“…there may no longer be enough food or water to maintain the earth’s inhabitants.”

Is that so?

Thus saith the Lord: “While the earth remaineth seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease. (Oh, and about that seedtime and harvest, you won’t be needing that because of man’s destructive activities, so, I’m sorry. One day, you’re going to run out of food. My bad). Genesis 8:22 Pam’s version

Posted by: Pam at October 25, 2007 2:16 PM
Comment #236945

“…there may no longer be enough food or water to maintain the earths inhabitants.”

Oh, really now?

I hear technology exists that can take urine and make water out it now, if necessary. I believe it, too, because I used to work at a wastewater treatment plant, and, well, you can imagine what the water looked like before treatment. And, the water after treatment looked like regular tap water, but you couldn’t drink it. Anyway, I imagine that soon, we’ll be drinking ocean water, because scientists at GE and other companies as well, are building water desalinization plants. So, we will probably be piping water anywhere. Droughts won’t mean a thing. And, as for food, well, I’m from Indiana. We pay our farmers to grow food that no one even needs. Last year, Indiana farmers produced 900 million bushels of corn. This year they are projected to harvest over 1 billion bushels of corn that will more than likely be stockpiled by the government somewhere. And, they’ve been doing this for years. I believe they do this in other states as well. So, the prospect of me, or my children, running out of food or water because of global warming just does not phase me one bit. Y’all just tryin’ to scare somebody. You got anything else that you want to try to scare me with?

Posted by: Pam at October 25, 2007 3:22 PM
Comment #236946

Pam
Are you for real, or is this a put on???

Global cooling, acid rain, global warming and climate change
First of all
Acid Rain IS a real phenomenon, and has decimated East Coast Hardwood forests, and lakes
and has been stemmed by pollution controls
not a scare tactic

Global Cooling, that was a theory that never did gain much traction by anyone — nor was there the resources, nor the data to actually determine conditions as we now can do

Global Warming/climate Change — sorry but to me Climate change seems watered down — if you want scare titles, — there are much better around.

This time climate change has been studied for quite a few years (much longer than the entire Global Cooling phase) BEFORE people even began raising the red flag — since then most of the scientific community (that is involved in climate research) has concluded that the evidence is compelling, convincing and VALID that there is an abnomal warming cycle occuring, it is acellerating, and much of it can be traced to Human activities (here is an interesting note of how the trend will be accelerating even more — in the far north where the permafrost is melting, it is releasing more and more trapped methane from what was previously PERMANENTLY FROZEN tundra. Methane happens to be 100 times worse than C02 as far as environmental warming — and as these northern areas release more and more methane, the atmosphere warms more, thawing more permafrost and releasing more methane!!
(there are now lakes in the north that have portions of their surface that look like carbonated water —due to methane release)
Hmmmm, interesting when you take the time to become informed!

Now on to another point — a comment was made
“Of course the super wealthy will be fine because they will control the resources and be able to afford the exorbitant prices which will surely result as shortages occur. “

Actually — when it gets to that point, you will find the “great unwashed masses” will be in revolt due to lack of resources, and will be battling it out — the rich will find that their stocks/bonds/fancy houses and paper money will be of little value — also, food and other items will not be available at any price, so much for factory farms!! — so don’t be sad, the poor little rich people will be suffering right along wiht the rest of us — the More the Merrier!!!!

Posted by: Russ at October 25, 2007 3:34 PM
Comment #236947

Hello all, I keep asking all the man-made global warming alarmists a question that no one has yet answered. “What is the perfect temperature for the world and when did we experience that perfect climate?” Was it 20 million years ago, 10 million, 1,000 or when? Can we get all the world’s people to agree on a perfect temperature for their part of the world? Can we then micromanage climate to make it perfect everywhere? Or, will some global areas suffer because we meddle with our puny and phoney efforts? Please help!

Posted by: Jim at October 25, 2007 3:37 PM
Comment #236952

You know, I would be taking this global warming stuff seriously, if the conference that all the global warming experts scheduled to have in Washington, DC earlier this year wasn’t called off because it was too cold. Honestly.

Posted by: Pam at October 25, 2007 3:53 PM
Comment #236956

“Hmmmm, interesting when you take the time to become informed!”

If I thought I would need a degree in meteorology to live and breathe in this world, I wouldn’t have majored in U.S. History. I have a question for all those global warming experts. Why are they always all bundled up when you see them up there in the Arctic or wherever they take their measurements? They always have on big, furry hats, big coats, and they always have gloves on. I know it is somewhat cold up there, but the way they make things sound with this global warming business, they should be able to afford to lose some of the heavy clothing. They’d be more credible if they did.

Posted by: Pam at October 25, 2007 4:10 PM
Comment #236957

Pam:

Um, maybe because ALL the ice isn’t gone yet? Give it time. With the attitude in your posts you’ll no doubt enjoy it.

Posted by: womanmarine at October 25, 2007 4:14 PM
Comment #236959

“Um, maybe because ALL the ice isn’t gone yet? Give it time. With the attitude in your posts you’ll no doubt enjoy it.”

I hate to burst your bubble, but it’s not going to happen. (Gen. 8:22) I’ll believe what Genesis says before I believe the so-called global warming experts any day. It’s been around longer.

I hear this global warming is a good thing. Soy bean crop yields have increased in South America.
Look on the bright side. If this global warming stuff is true, maybe we will be able to vacation in the Arctic. You’re right, I am looking forward to it.


Posted by: Pam at October 25, 2007 4:42 PM
Comment #236963

I suspect some Haitians believe they can VooDoo global warming away too, for the right price. So, much more practical than mythology believers who promise everything will be fine, for free. Ooops! Did I say free?

Sorry, forgot that the Roman Catholic Church was the largest and wealthiest single entity corporation in the world before they started paying massive awards and hush money to defiled children and parents of them. Faith sells. That is the long term investment for sure. Forget stocks and bonds, invest in icons and magic spells like wine to blood and bread to flesh, the Good Book which keeps publishers in business during boom and bust cycles, and exorcisms. Where would Hollywood and Linda Blair be without exorcisms?

Global warming is a matter of physics. Unless one believes it is part and parcel of the Apocalypse. Then of course, there is no point in doing anything, just sit down and wait. A rather irrational course of action since mankind can never know for sure when the Apocalypse will occur, having miscalled it so very many times in the past, already.

But, then what did rational thinking ever have to do with any religion outside of interpreting religious texts to fit one’s needs like the I-Ching, or Genesis. Cars don’t run on gasoline, cars run because God wills them to, one Jehovah’s Witness argued at my doorstep many decades ago, before closing the door on him, and his apparent nonsense.

Posted by: David R. Remer at October 25, 2007 6:13 PM
Comment #236964

David Remer, what is it like to be so hate-filled for Christians and their beliefs? Do atheists never say dumb things? Your choice to be an atheist is fine with me, but I wonder where the liberal pro-choice mantra fits in with the venom you are spewing. Oh well, God loves you and perhaps some day you will know that love. With your knowledge of physics, you of course know that matter can neither be created or destroyed, just changed. With this well accepted premise, please explain where all the matter in the Universe came from. And, while your at it, please answer the question I posed in my previous post. At what point in earth history was the climate just right? Please feel free to go back a few million years as the past thousand years is just a blink of the eye. Thanks and God’s love to you.

Posted by: Jim at October 25, 2007 6:34 PM
Comment #236965

Pam,
I have absolutely no idea how Genesis 8:22 is supposed to relate to Global Warming:

“While the earth remains, Seedtime and harvest, And cold and heat, And summer and winter, And day and night Shall not cease.”

Saying “stuff is gonna happen as long as there is an earth” is not very helpful.

Global Warming is more accurately referred to as Climate Change. Earlier in the thread, someone asked about the perfect temperature. Obviously, there is a range, but no single, specific number. The problem with Climate Change is that it forces people, animals, and plants to change as well, sometimes faster than they are capable.

Too much change, too fast, and people can die, and animals and plants can become extinct. They cannot adapt fast enough.

Taking care of the world we live upon, and caring for our fellow humans and life in general seems much more consistent with worthwhile religious values than an attitude of “who cares?”

Posted by: phx8 at October 25, 2007 6:38 PM
Comment #236966

Granted that there is a lot more at stake than just the short term health our current generation.

But even the most dire predictive models for global warming actually having it SAVING it a lot more human lives than it would cost over during lifetimes, at least.

“According to the first complete peer-reviewed survey of climate change’s health effects, global warming will actually save lives. It’s estimated that by 2050, global warming will cause almost 400,000 more heat-related deaths each year. But at the same time, 1.8 million fewer people will die from cold.”

And this doesn’t even begin to include the deaths that would result from lost humanitarian aid to the third world when industrialized countries become a lot poorer.

Posted by: Loyal Opposition at October 25, 2007 7:24 PM
Comment #236970

phx8 & David Remer: Don’t worry about trying to understand Gen. 8:22 or believing it. Some things just aren’t meant for you to understand or believe. And, it’s alright that you don’t understand or believe. Can you understand that? You don’t have to believe it. Everything is not meant for you. Why do you think everything is meant for you to understand and/or believe? Just ignore us Christian-types. Having said that, Yahweh is able to make things cold, in spite of man’s peabrain attempts to do otherwise. He only can make a promise about harvests, since he only can bring about one, as we here in Indiana well know. Aren’t you glad? It’s because of Yahweh that you eat. (Man can seed the clouds to make it rain, but, unless I’m out of touch, man cannot make a cloud at will, or at all). This is because Yahweh causes rain. If he can cause the rain, no doubt he can cause the sleet, hail, and snow. Also, if can cause the snow, then he can make it cold, if he so chooses, and there is no temperature range on the amount of cold he can produce. Also, if you would argue with Gen. 8:22, you should also raise a big stink about Gen. 12:3 and the like, but you won’t do that. Now that evolution has gone down the tubes by the admission of its own scientists, these so-called science-types need global warming to justify their salaries and positions. But, that’s about to fall by the wayside, too. Also, only Yahweh can predict the future, so unless you are all prophets of Yahweh, you global warming people need to “put a lid on it.”

Posted by: Pam at October 25, 2007 8:51 PM
Comment #236973

Pam- Does the Bible say some where that thou

protests, fall upon deaf ears?

Posted by: -DAVID- at October 25, 2007 9:50 PM
Comment #236974

DAVID,

I don’t think that it is “deaf ears” so much as it is a lack of an actual point or facts that might lead to a discussion.

Posted by: Rocky at October 25, 2007 9:58 PM
Comment #236978

Rocky-
good point. My post has a hidden meaning which
will not be obvious to all. I sometimes have a
warped sense of humor. Smile, you might be on
camera.

Posted by: -DAVID- at October 25, 2007 10:39 PM
Comment #236979

LO:

Heat and cold are one thing. Drought and floods and extremely severe weather are something else again.

Put that good news up there while you can, there’s much more to it than that.

Posted by: womanmarine at October 25, 2007 10:56 PM
Comment #236980

And back to the real world, in a Washington Post-AP newspaper article:

Documents obtained by The Washington Post show that White House officials heavily edited testimony on global warming delivered to Congress…In one deleted section, Gerberding (CDC Director Julie Gerberding) planned to say that many organizations are working to address climate change but that , despite this extensive activity, the public health effects of climate change remain largely unaddressed…CDC director predicted that areas in the northern United States will likely bear the brunt of increases in ground-level ozone and associated airborne pollutants. Populations in mid-western and northeastern cities are expected to experience more heat-related illnesses as heat waves increase in frequency, severity and duration.
Posted by: Cube at October 25, 2007 10:56 PM
Comment #236984

Pam,

“Man cannot make a cloud”? A cloud is water vapor, Pam. It is easy to make. People do it all the time, and not just with water vapor.

Genesis 12:3
“And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.”

Great quote, Pam. That is the difference between your religious beliefs and my religious beliefs. Cursing those who do not support my religious beliefs is impossible, because whether others believe or disbelieve, agree or disagree, does not matter; the idea of cursing others is fundamentally hateful and violent.

LO,
Climate Change means much more than just more heat and less cold, as David points out. For example, glacial run-off provides the sole water supply for some of the largest cities in the world. The implications are obvious, and dire.

Carbon sinks absorb much of the atmospheric C02. Unfortunately, it seems some of the major sinks, such as oceans, are reaching the point of saturation faster than predicted. Just one implication is that many of the smallest creatures in the ocean food chain will no longer be able to create shells, due to the change in the alkalinity. Once again, a collapse of the food chain at its bottom has dire consequences.

Melting the arctic ice cap represents another change. It is good, in that it cuts distances for shipping by a substantial amount between Europe and Asia. It is bad, in that the change of albedo and melting the permafrost creates a self-reinforcing feedback loop, causing the northern latitutes to heat up even faster.

Ok, enough. But once again, here is the link for the IPCC, which will come out with its 4th report, the Synthesis Report, in mid-November.


Posted by: phx8 at October 26, 2007 12:42 AM
Comment #236989

Pam said: “(Man can seed the clouds to make it rain, but, unless I’m out of touch, man cannot make a cloud at will, or at all).”

Bullpuckie. I make clouds in my bathroom everytime I take a hot shower. Clouds are afterall, only water vapor, add a little heat to water, and voila! Man makes clouds, albeit, little ones, mostly. The cooling towers on nuclear power plants however, make bigger ones. And if we continue to pour enormous amounts of CO2 into the atmosphere, greenhousing the planet, mankind will indeed create many more clouds by increasing surface temperatures and therefore, the rate of evaporation from the seas in addition to addition to sea levels by melting polar caps.

Posted by: David R. Remer at October 26, 2007 1:42 AM
Comment #236994

David Remer: So, man is making clouds now. That’s all I wanted to know. Thank you. That’s great. Because they sure need a few in Southern California right about now, don’t you think? Why doesn’t somebody send some clouds over there and seed them so they can put some of their wildfires out? Because, it looks like they could use a deluge right about now. Weather, or climate, or whatever you call it, is spiritual. And, nonspiritual people can’t understand spiritual things, therefore what is the point in having a discussion with them about it? I don’t discuss spiritual things with nonspiritual people. It’s just a waste of time. Now, if you want to become a spiritual person, let me know. But for now, just think of my comments as not being directed to you. So, you can just ignore me. It’s your privilege. This is America and you are entitled to your opinion, just as well as I am. I happen to think that there are many spiritual people, especially those in government, who will be glad to read my opinion on this issue. Now you can watch me pick apart global warming from a spiritual point of view, if you like, or not. It’s your privilege.

“…there may no longer be enough food or water to maintain the earth’s inhabitants.”

It’s just unimaginable that a believer would make a statement like the above, or even believe it for one minute. What about
Psalms 37:25 (A psalm of David) - “I have been young, and now am old; yet have I not see the righteous forsaken, nor his seed begging bread.”

I’m sure there are many more. My point is, that global warming of this sort and Christianity just don’t mix. It’s just unimaginable that Yahweh would desert his people like those that want us to believe in global warming would have us think.

Now, the world is going to go alright. And, it’s going to get pretty hot. But, it’s not going to get hot over a slow period of time, as global warming experts suggest. It’s not going to take a lot of time to melt. And, the world may not have started with a “Big Bang,” but most certainly, it is going to end with one (IIPet3:10). But God’s people can rest assured that we will be saved from this fate. You know, I guess I do believe in global warming after all, but it would be more like “global hotter-than-hell.” The globe is going to cook, alright. This is what people should be afraid of. This is what people should be trying to avoid.

Posted by: Pam at October 26, 2007 5:37 AM
Comment #236996

Pam asked: “Why doesn’t somebody send some clouds over there and seed them so they can put some of their wildfires out?”

That is beyond our technical capability at the moment, as the 10’s of millions of inventions in human history were beyond our capability before being invented. Man can make clouds. Just not big enough to cause rain in targeted locales, YET! As I said, clouds are just water vapor, and man has the ability to create water vapor. Just not in sufficient quantities yet to produce rain in targeted geographic areas.

Posted by: David R. Remer at October 26, 2007 8:21 AM
Comment #236997

“My point is, that global warming of this sort and Christianity just don’t mix.”

That could be because “faith”, and reality don’t always mix.

Posted by: Rocky at October 26, 2007 8:35 AM
Comment #236999

Pam

“…there may no longer be enough food or water to maintain the earth’s inhabitants.

Perhaps I should have phrased this statement better. Maybe the word all should have been inserted after maintain. There currently are many people in this world who are impoverished and suffering because their climate is in decline. Exacerbating this problem at a faster rate than necessary will not allow man time to adapt. This very likely will result in world chaos, wars, mass genocides, extinctions, and declining world health. Man is like any other living creature in regards that our will for survival is instinctual and takes precedence when threatened. Threats to survival do not always take a well thought out organized and peaceful course to a solution. I ask you if man is indeed contributing in the acceleration of this process, and most good science says we are, then why should we not try to provide a solution?

I think spirituality is more than simply putting all my faith in a book of scriptures that were mostly written a few thousand years ago. Scriptures that have been reinterpreted, rewritten, depleted, reinserted and rearranged many times over to satisfy the needs of and insure the survival of an iconic culture whose main goal has been the insurance of its very existence and the power it wields over its constituents. My spirituality is about being a morally good and helpful person of compassion and responsibility who recognizes that my wants do not take precedence over the needs of others. In other words it is about values. I do not need an ancient and outdated book that requires I must worship its contents or else spend my life in fear of an eternal afterlife of suffering. I do not require the motivation of fear to have values or live a happy, moral and fruitful life. I am a good and responsible person and that is not the result of living in fear of reprisal.

Posted by: RickIL at October 26, 2007 8:59 AM
Comment #237000

Russ

so don’t be sad, the poor little rich people will be suffering right along wiht the rest of us — the More the Merrier!!!!

You are correct Russ. If this all comes to fruition there most likely will be a timely evolution of change. To me this indicates if unfettered warming continues, that there will be a transition period in which world supplies decline to a point of chaos. It is that transition period that the rich will fair better than the rest of us.

Please do not take this as being my absolute view on the results of global warming. This is only speculation on my part which I believe warrants very serious considerations. I certainly am no expert and do believe that we as a world are way behind the eight ball on this one. I truly do not understand how such a serious and ominous threat can simply be denied or ignored when such drastic results could be at hand.

Posted by: RickIL at October 26, 2007 9:20 AM
Comment #237001

Pam,

Serious question here. The point of this thread is not whether or not global warming exists, but whether or not this administration has the authority, legal or moral, to edit out information in reports about global warming. Do you think they do, and if so, why?

Jim,

The question is not about whether the climate was ever “just right”, but whether a significant shift in climate would damage our society, and how much. All you are doing it throwing out an unanswerable question in order to change the subject. Transparent and silly, my friend. Let’s have real discussion instead, shall we?

Both Pam and Jim are using a classic bait-and-switch tactic on you all, and you all bit hard. Instead of discussing the continued questionably legal acts of this administration, we are instead slinging insults and discussing theology, neither of which are winnable. Global warming is happening, and anyone who disagrees is only going to skirt the issue instead of engaging in it.

So a question for all those who disagree with climate change (a euphamism the Right conjured up, BTW). If we were to do all those things us crazy Lefties want, convert to alternate fuels, invest in renewable energy sources, so on and so forth, wouldn’t this be a better, cleaner world, even if global warming is a bunch of compost? Wouldn’t reducing our dependency on foreign oil get us out of the Middle East and improve our national security? Wouldn’t doing this improve our lives? Isn’t that reason enough to try it?

L

Posted by: leatherankh at October 26, 2007 9:35 AM
Comment #237003

if global warming is incompatible with christian views then i guess these scriptures are in error seems to me like its talking about the here and now and wouldnt climate change brought on by man be included in “and there shall be famines, and pestilences” surely the resulting effects of global climate change will bring about terrible famines and pestilences…….

Mat 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all [these things] must come to pass, but the end is not yet.


Mat 24:7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places

just an observation of a former christian

Posted by: john at October 26, 2007 9:49 AM
Comment #237005

O.k. I’ll stay out of the Genesis stuff and just ask a few simple questions:

Does Global Warming exist? Seeems to me that this is pretty straight forward.

Is Man impacting Global Warming somehow? Looks like a little more debate there.

If the above equal yes, then what should we do about it? Exit science; enter into the world of politics.

See, I’m confused on exactly what the political goals of the GM crowd are? Kyoto? New regulation? Banning all cars? Logan’s Run? I’m certain they are not just pointing this stuff out so that we can prepare our sun tan oils.

If this is just politics, then the science doesn’t really matter anyway. There are very few actual facts in politics anyway. So shouldn’t we just skip that part and delve straight into what is the political agenda here?

Posted by: George in SC at October 26, 2007 9:54 AM
Comment #237006

George,

The science exists.
The doubt is being raised by those that believe that we can blithely ignore the toxins we put into the air/water/earth, because we cannot afford to address the problems (if they even exist), or even worse, it will all work out because some spiritual entity will surely come along to take care of it for us.

Climate change is real. The US Navy has observed the Polar ice cap melting, and suggested that by 2050 there would be no ice on the cap during the summer months. This study was done in 2002.

So what do we do?
Do we continue to berate and make fun of folks like Gore that are advocates for change, or do we actually become pro-active, and do something about the problem?

Posted by: Rocky at October 26, 2007 10:26 AM
Comment #237012

Rocky-

So what do we do?

Again, both sides are using the science for political gain; Al and Co. are using it to advocate doing something while their opponents attack the credibility of the source (a typical political tactic used on these blogs everyday) in an effort to thwart their political gain.

We’ve left the world of facts and figures and entered into the fantasy land of political discourse. So instead of bickering about tactics why don’t we just cut to the chase and bicker about proposed solutions?

And that’s the “something” in let’s do something…. What is it?

Posted by: George in SC at October 26, 2007 11:13 AM
Comment #237013

“The question is not about whether the climate was ever “just right”, but whether a significant shift in climate would damage our society, and how much. All you are doing it throwing out an unanswerable question in order to change the subject. Transparent and silly, my friend. Let’s have real discussion instead, shall we?” Posted by: leatherankh at October 26, 2007 09:35 AM

Sorry leatherankh, but you have just confirmed my point. The liberals are attempting to find solutions to the unanswerable question. Much of what we know of earth’s climate would indicate that in the past the climate was considerably warmer with lush vegetation and great species diversity. Naturally occuring warming and cooling favored some species and caused others to become extinct with no impact by humans. There were periods of great concentrations of co2 followed by much lesser amounts in the atmosphere. Who would argue that this was not a natural cycle? Now mankind, in its arrogance believes the climate of the past 50 years is best for our species and must be maintained at all and any cost. That is a false construction as there have been many periods in the past when climate was more favorable to humans and other species. I also believe that the world’s climate is changing as it has over the eons. What I refuse to believe is that it is man-made and therefore somehow controllable. It is also arrogant for man to believe climate should only benefit him and not all living things on the planet. I too want clean air and water. I too want alternative energy sources. I too want all the earth’s peoples to prosper and enjoy their lives. We are not apart on these desires. We part company as I am a realist and many of you believe you can not only control us…but also climate. This is a fool’s dream.

Posted by: Jim at October 26, 2007 11:36 AM
Comment #237014

RickIL:

“There currently are many people in this world who are impoverished and suffering because their climate is in decline.”

We here in Indiana know where to get food, and we know who gives it. Indiana farmers have produced over 1 billion bushels of corn this year, that the country can’t even eat. These impoverished and suffering people are welcome to purchase it if they like. Oh, but they are impoverished. I’m sure they have something in exchange for food. How about their land? Sounds like a fair exchange to me.

Why should I listen to people that are pushing an issue like global warming with all of its so-called dire effects, and these people don’t even know where food comes from? Even a dumb jackass knows who gives him food. When you figure it out, do the impoverished and suffering lands a favor and inform them, too, although more than likely, they already know.

Posted by: Pam at October 26, 2007 11:53 AM
Comment #237015

George,

What is there really to discuss, or bicker about?

It is a given that we need to cut back on our usage of petroleum. We should be using it only for the jobs that cannot be accomplished some other way.
We should be using mass transit to help wean us from our cars.
We should be using low energy products.
We should be exploring alternate forms of energy including nuclear.
We should be recycling everything that can be recycled, and not just for profit.
We should be ignoring those that want to make this a political football, and become pro-active ourselves.
That’s you and me.

On the political side, we should be cracking down, with harsh penalties, those companies that refuse to clean up their act.

The solutions were suggested decades ago, yet most people have ignored them because they might make us a tad uncomfortable or they think cutting back a little on their lifestyles is degrading.
America is the richest, most wasteful country on the planet, and simply sitting back and bitching about other countries that pollute accomplishes nothing.

If we really think spending the money now, when things aren’t totally out of hand, is expensive, how much is it going to cost us when things do start to get out of control.

Your mother, my mother, Mother Nature, or even some spiritual deity isn’t going to come and clean up our act for us.

It’s time to wake up and smell the pavement pal. We’ve been partying like it’s 1999 since the Industrial Revolution started, and the party may be over, and sooner than we think.

Posted by: Rocky at October 26, 2007 11:56 AM
Comment #237016

For Pam and other flatearthers

If you cannot manage to acept scientific eveidence consider the geopolitical effects of our dependance on fossil fuels. Our troops are at risk for control of oil supplies. Our Navy spends most of its time patrolling sea lanes to protect oil shipment. We bow down to despotic,non-Christian countries that persecute Christians and subjugate women. Sooner or later we will run out of oil. Smog is not good.There are other reasons to move away from fossil fuels than climate change.

Posted by: Bills at October 26, 2007 12:22 PM
Comment #237018

RickIL:

“There currently are many people in this world who are impoverished and suffering because their climate is in decline.”

Okay, this is what is going to happen. We give the impoverished and suffering people our surplus corn. The impoverished and suffering people give the United States their land. We ship Indiana farmers to the land that we have acquired. The Indiana farmers plant corn, the impoverished people harvest and eat the corn. Problem solved. (Hint: Don’t worry about the climate, that will follow the Indiana farmers).

But, you know what the funny thing about this whole global warming issue is? The Republicans are about to cave in to all of this garbage. Don’t get me wrong. I’m all for clean air, water, and land, and the list of things in Rocky’s last comment. I’m just against lies and scare tactics to try to motivate people into doing the right thing. Just don’t try to scare people around me, that’s all. I can’t even stand police sirens. That’s fear motivation to me. It’s my pet peeve.

Posted by: Pam at October 26, 2007 12:56 PM
Comment #237025

Pam
Do you mean scare tactics like “If we do not let Bush trample civil rights or if we do not support stupid wars the Muslum terrorist will make us all convert”,or “If you do not do exactly what my shallow interpritation of a 5000 year old,heavily edited religious tome dictates you will go to hell” kind of fear tactic? I hate those too.See,common ground.

Posted by: BillS at October 26, 2007 3:12 PM
Comment #237026

The weatherman on the nightly news can’t even get the weather for the next day right, and I’m supposed to believe a bunch of soon-to-be out-of-work, trying-to-hang-onto-their job scientists about some global warming and about how people are going to be starving and fighting over food, and bullcrap like that. What a lie from hell. Using all that high-falooting technical jargon that the average citizen can’t understand, trying to talk over somebody’s head like, “Listen to me, I’ve got all the answers!” And, just what problem have they managed to solve? Nothing. Can’t solve nothin’. Couldn’t hit a bull in the butt with a surfboard. Couldn’t find their own butts in the dark using both hands. And, then they think they can predict the future. I thought that was God’s job. They probably have never turned over a page in the Bible in their entire lives and they have the nerve to think that God would reveal the future to them. God wouldn’t even spit in their direction. And, what’s funny is, the Christians are just lapping up whatever they say. Imagine that. God revealing the future to pagan unbelievers. The prophets are not talking about global warming. What prophet is talking about global warming? None. Only one man of God has had the guts to say anything about global warming, and that was Jerry Falwell, and he said it was a myth. And, he was right. No men and women of God are even talking about global warming. They are talking about marriage and the family, and relationships. If global warming was something to be concerned about like these global warming “alarmists” would have us believe, men and women of God would be crying from the rooftops. I bet those Republicans are just lapping this global warming bullcrap up, too. Just because the global warming experts are “scientists.” And, the Republicans call themselves Christians, too. This is just too funny for words.

Posted by: Pam at October 26, 2007 3:13 PM
Comment #237031

“…a 5000 year old,heavily edited religious tome…”

I dare you to try and get rid of it. Go ahead, I challenge you to burn every single copy of the Bible on earth. It will still be here, long after you return to the dust that you came from. Now, run along and go and try to figure that one out, since you don’t have anything else to do besides try to make a living off of fictitious scientific escapades, like global warming.

Posted by: Pam at October 26, 2007 3:57 PM
Comment #237033

It comes down to the current powers in government, do not think that the American people are smart enough to know what is good for them, or they are afraid that once we do find out how bad it is, then we will start hollering for the funds that are wasted in Iraq, be spent on something worthwhile, like alternative fuel, instead of sending money over to the Saudis. Maybe actually spend some money for the good of Americans instead of everone else.

Posted by: KT at October 26, 2007 4:09 PM
Comment #237036

Paul Siegel-

Excellent Post. Censorship- Eviscerated Report,

an Impacts on the Health of Americans! A serious

an compelling debate, an we here from folks who

think they are safer if they stick their head in

the sand as an ostridge does when confronted with

a serious problem. Then some folks believe if you were

to throw Gasoline on a fire, you will be able to

extinguish or alter the debate.(Flame Batters) An a few are truly

concerned about our future. Perplexing as it may

seem, things have a way of coming out right, even

though a few obstructionists try their dumbest to

ruin the rights of others!

Posted by: -DAVID- at October 26, 2007 4:27 PM
Comment #237037

——above post, here should be (hear)-sorry

Posted by: -DAVID- at October 26, 2007 4:31 PM
Comment #237039

Pam

I am not sure why I am responding to your views, but at any rate here goes. Yes of course everyone knows where corn comes from. You and I are neighbors. I live in the midst of some of the best corn producing land in the world. It comes from the earth. It is planted, harvested, sold, bought and distributed by man with machines created by man via the evolution of science. It is the single most prominent product of my region. It and its by products are used in countless products. And it most definitely is a product that is reliant on certain growing conditions to thrive. It is a very weather reliant product. And to be honest most of the corn raised is field corn. It is mostly used to feed cattle and as I said earlier, by products. Climate change is a product of global warming. Where will all this corn you hope to feed the world with be grown when the climate is no longer suitable? Are you telling us that some deity will magically provide for us when mother earth is no longer capable of doing so?

It is your right to put all your faith in scripture and those who sell it to you. But to ignore the realities of change simply because some millionaire cultist, preying on the fears of those who support him, tells you that global warming is not real is plain foolish. To ignore and repudiate the realities of science is just plain ignorant. Without science you would not be sending electronic messages across the world, driving cars, flying, watching Jerry Falwell on television, enjoying the benefits of modern medicine etc. etc. etc. You are welcome to stick your head in the sand and deny that climate change is real. As for myself I am a realist and would prefer to face it head on and do whatever is possible to necessitate change for the better.

Posted by: RickIL at October 26, 2007 4:47 PM
Comment #237042

Jim

That is a false construction as there have been many periods in the past when climate was more favorable to humans and other species. I also believe that the world’s climate is changing as it has over the eons. What I refuse to believe is that it is man-made and therefore somehow controllable. It is also arrogant for man to believe climate should only benefit him and not all living things on the planet.

Yes Jim there have been many periods. And they have been studied documented accounted for and for the most part explained by science. They have all been pretty much part of a cyclical pattern. The problem here is that our current situation does not fit that pattern of cycles. It is out of place in the pattern of past dramatic climate changes.

Who is saying that climate change should only benefit man? It stands to reason that what is good for us should also be good for the survival of most species that coexist with us. That is barring those species which are being deemed extinct as a result of human population and its after effects. I certainly can not fathom how attempting to preserve and maintain the wondrous beauties of this planet we all call home can be considered arrogant.

Posted by: RickIL at October 26, 2007 5:14 PM
Comment #237053

RickIL,

You forgot to mention that without science, all that corn we keep hearing about wouldn’t exist.

Posted by: Rocky at October 26, 2007 6:49 PM
Comment #237055

RickIL:

I appreciate all the advancements of science, but isn’t it kind of funny? All of those activities resulting from science that you described in your last comment produce the waste material that is responsible for pollution and the so-called effects of global warming. Every single one of them. Everybody just needs to clean up what they mess up. And, Christians don’t need television to move the Word of God. They didn’t have radios, electronic messages, telephones, computers, cars, jets, TV, etc., etc. back in 30 AD. It was just 12 guys walking in some sandals. And, the Word of God spread like wildfire. Isn’t that interesting? And, the Word of God is still here today. Why is that? Now, if that’s not an opportunity for research, I don’t know what is.

And, pardon me, I don’t care how good the earth is, but any farmer will tell you, and common sense should too, that if it doesn’t rain, you aren’t going to have much of a harvest. Yahweh is the rain god. Yup, you should be thanking the rain god, aka, the storm god. His name is not mother earth. You’re giving credit to the soil, when you should be giving credit to the one who brings the rain. Even the native Americans knew about him. They called him Great Spirit. They knew, and still know that rain comes from him. They always had plenty of food. They even helped the first settlers in the US with food. And, how about what’s going on in Georgia? There is plenty of earth down there. Too bad they can’t drink it. They could use some rain, you think?

Also, I have to correct you. You only eat because I, and millions of other Christians like me, say grace before we eat our meals each and every day. Get rid of us, and you’d be dead in a heartbeat. Chew on that for a while. When you figure it out, perhaps you can do some research on it for some university, and have a lifetime of job security. That’s right, you live near a Christian that prays. And, just like the rain, that Christian’s blessings are just falling down on you. If he moves, you’re in trouble, unless there is another Christian around, and there are plenty of us around, so you don’t have to worry. Climate change is real alright. It changes whenever the Creator, who sends the rain, wants it to change. And, that’s the bottom line.

Posted by: Pam at October 26, 2007 7:05 PM
Comment #237058

“Also, I have to correct you. You only eat because I, and millions of other Christians like me, say grace before we eat our meals each and every day. Get rid of us, and you’d be dead in a heartbeat. Chew on that for a while.”

I’m sorry, I just have to ask for some facts, not faith.
You are entitled to your beliefs, what ever they are but the Christian “faith” didn’t spread like “wildfire”, that, is a historical fact. It has taken over 2,000 years for Christianity to reach only 33% of the worlds population, and I would bet dollars to doughnuts that only 1 in a 1,000,000 of that 33% believe as you do.
So please, don’t insult our intelligence. Back up your prostelitizing with facts.

Posted by: Rocky at October 26, 2007 8:06 PM
Comment #237061

Rocky, don’t forget that Christianity did not spread much until Constantine decreed that Christianity shall be the official imperial Roman religion. At that point, the choice was to either convert or face the sword of the Roman Army.

Posted by: Warren P at October 26, 2007 8:50 PM
Comment #237064

Warren,

I didn’t really forget, but I am sure there are some here that have. The same holds true for the manifest destiny crowd.
Christianity was spread by the sword throughout the New World, including the Native American heathens, that believed in the “Great Spirit”, and “Mother Earth”.
Kinda like the way we are trying to spread Democracy.
History is a funny thing, it’s filled with indisputable “facts”. It doesn’t require faith. It actually happened.

But thanks anyway.

Posted by: Rocky at October 26, 2007 10:08 PM
Comment #237071

Pam,
“Climate change is real alright. It changes whenever the Creator… wants it to change.”

I understand you perceive the world as a part of an all encompassing Creator. Nevertheless, whether everything is a matter of free will, or predetermined by the Creator, it does not relieve an individual of a personal responsibility to do what is right, nor does it relieve an individual of the same responsibility towards family and others.

I still see no reason why your religious beliefs make the idea of anthropogenic Global Warming unacceptble. Perhaps it is the will of God that humanity change the world through Global Warming. Perhaps it is the will of God that humanity reverse the change. To presume to know that will is… well… presumptious.

The point is, none of us live our lives as passive fatalists. What we do know, and where I am sure you and I agree, is that we have an obligation to do our best, and do what we think is right.

The article which started this thread points out that the Bush administration has knowingly changed the data and opinions of knowledgable people in order to conceal the dangers of Global Warming. They are concealing evidence. They are lying. Perhaps they are lying because they want to protect the groups which give them the most money, the fossil fuel industries in particular. Big Oil and Big Coal make enormous amounts of money by preventing the development of alternate energy sources.

Posted by: phx8 at October 26, 2007 11:35 PM
Comment #237073

Just another example of the lies and deceit, and sneaky behind the scenes behavior of the Bush White House. I don’t believe a thing they say, and every time I see Bush on tv giving a press conference, I just turn the channel. Bush is a loser, and I have absolutely no respect for someone who has no clue whatsoever what it takes to be a world leader. Bush is the die hard Cowboy wanna be without a horse.

Posted by: Tom K at October 26, 2007 11:43 PM
Comment #237079
Rocky, don’t forget that Christianity did not spread much until Constantine decreed that Christianity shall be the official imperial Roman religion. At that point, the choice was to either convert or face the sword of the Roman Army.

That is a load of baloney. When Constantine assumed power, Christians were still being slaughtered for their beliefs, and he made that illegal when he adopted Christianity. There is NOTHING in the historical record about non-Christians being killed for not converting under Constantine (and in fact, by the time of his death, most Romans were still polytheists in the old Roman tradition).

Pam, I don’t think that skepticism about the questionable parts of what global warming alarmists tell us requires any religious beliefs at all.

Unfortunately, much of the debate is being driven by two irrational factions:

1). Corporate interests, who will use anything (even religion) to challenge anything which threatens their bottom lines.

2). Left-wing interests, who see in global warming a chance to have government step in and start controlling everything from the economy to personal behavior. And will use anything, including bad science, to reach that goal.

Unfortunately, even the “science” we see and hear about this subject is being polluted by these contradictory interests. We don’t need religion to be captured and manipulated by one side of this debate any more than we need to have science suffer that same fate.

Posted by: Loyal Opposition at October 27, 2007 12:47 AM
Comment #237085

LO,
Global Warming is a global problem. But I know of no major religion in the world, other than the American evangelical sects, which deny the science behind Global Warming. It is something of a mystery to me, why American evangelicals should take that point of view. My guess is that they take their cue from conservatives like Bush, Limbaugh, Hannity, and so on. But that is only a guess. And even some of the evangelical sects have begun to acknowledge the perils of Global Warming, so at this point it would not be fair anymore to suggest they are all in denial.

The only major governments opposed to international cooperation are the conservataive governments of the US and Australia. Even the Chinese have begun to indicate a willingness to cooperate.

Some of the people in denial base their views upon economic self-interest. Others base their denial of facts upon philosophical views. Because Global Warming, by its very nature, requires viewing the world globally, and because it can only be effectively addressed with international cooperation, many reject the facts. They reject it because they see the world through a lens or nationalism, or a belief that free markets will solve the problem without the conscious direction of government.

Global Warming is the worst possible problem for American conservatives, because it undercuts everything they mistakenly believe.

Posted by: phx8 at October 27, 2007 1:36 AM
Comment #237116

“Man can make clouds. Just not big enough to cause rain in targeted locales, YET!”

I sure do hope that I’m living in the day that man can make clouds big enough to cause rain in targeted locales. I want to be around when a bunch of them spend a lot of money getting that cloud right where God doesn’t want it to rain, and then see God command the wind to blow that sucker into oblivion, and flick it away as if it were something he had found in his nose.

Now, like I said before, climate is spiritual. And, these global warming scientists are for the most part nonspiritual, or natural men. The natural man cannot understand spiritual things, no matter how many titles or degrees he has behind his name, or no matter what kind of fancy technical jargon he uses, or no matter how many numbers he throws around. These drought situations, especially in the US are probably the result of some spiritual problem, or a spiritual attack. And, from the tone of some of the comments on this site, it’s a wonder that we are not all toast by now. Apparently, it is not bothering Christians in the US, because if it were, they would know just what to do about it. It doesn’t bother me in my community, because we have our community in control.

(And, as you can probably tell, I am not your everyday, garden-variety, namby-pamby, wimpy-wimpy, milk-toast Christian. I stare God in his eyeball everyday. There are only a few of us around.)

Posted by: Pam at October 27, 2007 7:11 PM
Comment #237123

Pam, I’ve known a whole lot of very hardcore Christians (having grown up in a fundamentalist Christian household), and I must say that your remarks seem a lot more like parody than the real thing.

From a religious point of view, “targeted” rain clouds would be nothing more than a technologically new form of irrigation, and you just don’t hear actual Christians saying that God will become angry if you water your azaleas with a watering can. By your logic, if he wanted those azaleas to grow, he’d send them rain, and it’s an affront to his will to sprinkle the water over them yourself.

Phx8:

Global Warming is the worst possible problem for American conservatives, because it undercuts everything they mistakenly believe.

I can understand why someone would say that, considering how the political battle-lines currently appear to be drawn over this issue.

But I don’t think there is anything either fundamentally “conservative” or “liberal” about it. Much of what’s going on is a result of having a Republican administration currently in power and that administration being the focus of anger over the status quo.

The status quo, however, is not likely to be altered by “liberals” when they have the power to do so. The Clinton administration, for example, never signed on to Kyoto. Nations like those in Europe whose governments and populations are supposedly for it haven’t actually shown the determination to actually make the sacrifices necessary to implement it.

And what’s more, the steps needed to curb global warming would be absolutely devastating to the world’s poor, and it remains to be seen if liberals with power would ever have the stomach to match their rhetoric to actions that would likely plunge the poor into deeper misery than the world has ever seen.

The liberal response (obviously) is that well, “new technologies” and “alternative fuel sources” will be developed and solve the entire problem. But the truth is that those solutions do not EXIST, and it’s frankly unlikely that they will any time soon. It’s tantamount to saying (as Pam might) that God will solve the entire problem.

In any case, the solution would lie in technology, and that technology is not going to suddenly materialize just because you have the “correct” liberal attitudes. In the meantime, you’ll either have to just keep kicking the can down the road or—if the problem is as serious and obvious as you say—embrace the necessity to destroy millions of lives for your beliefs.

Posted by: Loyal Opposition at October 28, 2007 12:23 AM
Comment #237125

Carbon tax. Until we are ready to take this step, nothing else really matters. So many people like to debate and blame, so few want to go to the solution.

Posted by: Jack at October 28, 2007 12:33 AM
Comment #237133

I do not believe that the drought conditions that we are experiencing are a result of man-made global warming. Perhaps it is just the result of God’s blessings being withdrawn from the US. Some might respond, “But, this is America!” And, “America is Go-o-o-d’s country!” Well, it doesn’t look like it to me. Maybe it’s not. From some of the weather maps that I’ve seen from Google earth, most of the US looks drier than Iraq. So, is this really Go-o-o-d’s country? I don’t think so. But, that’s just my opinion. And, you know what they say about opinions: “An opinion is like a bass ole - everybody’s got one.”

Posted by: Pam at October 28, 2007 10:58 AM
Comment #237138

Loyal Opposition:

“Pam, I’ve known a whole lot of very hardcore Christians (having grown up in a fundamentalist Christian household), and I must say that your remarks seem a lot more like parody than the real thing.”

Pardon me, but you wouldn’t know a very hardcore Christian if one came up to you and bit you on the hind end. If you did, they would be teaching the weaker Christians and leading unbelievers into worshiping God in spirit and in truth, the way he is looking for, and the whole country wouldn’t be going to hell in a handbasket like it is. You don’t have to listen to me, though. There are so many lies out there that I don’t blame you for not taking me seriously. Is anyone asking you to? There are a ton of lies out there. And, people are spiritually ignorant beyond belief. You would have to be a very unique individual to wade through the lies, most of them put out by organized religion, to get to the truth. And, as for my remarks, and you probably already know this - I really don’t care what you think about my remarks.

Posted by: Pam at October 28, 2007 12:10 PM
Comment #237141

Loyal Opposition:

“Pam, I’ve known a whole lot of very hardcore Christians (having grown up in a fundamentalist Christian household), and I must say that your remarks seem a lot more like parody than the real thing.”

I’ll say it again, you just wouldn’t know what to look for in a very hardcore Christian. The average human being is spiritually ignorant bordering on retardation. I know what to look for, and I haven’t been in the presence of a hardcore Christian in over 11 years and 2 states. There are none on TV or radio. Talk about a spiritual drought. Talk about spiritual thirst. I can talk to you about it. I finally ran into a few on the internet, but there’s nothing like being in their presence. I would have to travel 150 miles to be with them, but I just don’t have the energy that I used to have. I would share, but some of you need to do some spiritual exercise on your own, and besides, I’m really not supposed to, anyway. You have to be more spiritually mature to understand why I can’t share with you. You probably wouldn’t even be interested. That’s the main reason. But there’s terminology for it, and I don’t want to offend anybody by using it. The US is suffering from a spiritual drought that seems like it is manifesting itself physically. The drought is too widespread. It is not man-made global warming. And, the country is also in an incredibly dense spiritual fog. I know that for sure.

Posted by: Pam at October 28, 2007 2:23 PM
Comment #237144

Let’s move the discussion back on topic, folks, Global Warming. The topic IS NOT Christianity.

Posted by: Watchblog Managing Editor at October 28, 2007 3:25 PM
Comment #237145

Loyal Opposition:

I read your response to my comment about the targeted clouds and have changed my position. God will not be angry over “targeted” rain clouds. But “targeted” rain clouds sure will make me angry, therefore, I will command the wind to blow those suckers into oblivion, only if I’m alive to see it, of course. And, if you
don’t think I will be able to do it, by spiritual means, then you need to read your Bible more often. And, if I’m not around to see these targeted rain clouds, I will leave instructions for those who come after me to see that it doesn’t happen. This is available, spiritually, however, I don’t expect you to understand spiritual things, since you are a natural man or carnal Christian. Christians have more power than you, or even they know about. Targeted rain clouds, as well as man-made global warming, offends my Christian sensibilities. To me, man-made global warming and its so-called effects break every rule in the book, so to speak.

Posted by: Pam at October 28, 2007 3:40 PM
Comment #237146

“Targeted rain clouds, as well as man-made global warming, offends my Christian sensibilities. To me, man-made global warming and its so-called effects break every rule in the book, so to speak.”

So I would presume that you aren’t aware that some of these scientists on the Global warming bandwagon are Christians, and would probably take offence at your characterization of them not only being wrong, but soon to be unemployed as well. So far you haven’t provided us with any proof that they actually are wrong.
I would suggest that until you can provide that truth, that we allow them to keep their jobs.

As for “breaking every rule in the book” you might want to expand your library just a bit. The sum of human knowledge is found in more books than just the Bible.

Posted by: Rocky at October 28, 2007 4:21 PM
Comment #237149

I especially admire the White House protecting me from low gas prices, helping to open my mail before it comes to my house, making sure my phone calls are “helpfully” recorded, taking away the worry of habeas corpus, and allowing my family to pay for the war in Iraq for several more generations. I don’t think I could ever go back again to the President telling the truth, the Vice President being a man of honor, and a government that I could respect and serve in uniform. I am so glad that now, after just six and a half years, my President has at least turned the rest of the world against my beloved country and made the future for my children so much more dangerous. I am particularly gratefull that he has helped his super-rich friends to obscene wealth and his business friends unlimited access to the public trough without the slightest oversight. I certainly do hope the President has a relaxing retirement on his new 100,000 acre ranch he bought last year in Paraguay. Maybe we could all go and visit him their some day. More pushups, please, Drill Sergeant?

Posted by: What's the fus, Gus at October 28, 2007 7:03 PM
Comment #237201

Now, get this. The Republicans, are going to end up caving in to this so-called man-made global warming and end up funding this useless man-made climate change research. Man-made climate change? Sounds like an oxymoron to me. Anyway, the Republicans, who represent a bunch of Christians, who, for the most part, aren’t aware of the fact that they can spiritually control the weather. This is clearly spelled out throughout the Bible. Perhaps the Bible is not true. Now, some Christians do indeed know of this power, because I heard about a group of them diverting a hurricane just a couple of years ago. And, I’ve heard about a man that turned away a tornado single-handedly. And, I also know even from personal experience that this power is available. But, for the most part, Christians, especially those who call themselves scientists, don’t know that they can control the weather, which is clearly spelled out thoughout the Bible, Old Testament and New. Then, after all this, the Christians are going to have the audacity to continue to go around trying to push a book on people that they don’t even believe in. That’s what gets me. That’s going to be funny. But, that’s just me. And, what do I know? Just think of me as the 800-lb gorilla in the room. You don’t have to listen to me. Just ignore me. Go ahead, ignore me. It’s okay. And, who knows? Maybe the Republicans won’t cave in to it. If they don’t, maybe it will be divine intervention.

Posted by: Pam Johnson at October 29, 2007 12:22 PM
Comment #237204

Oh Pam, I absolutely guarantee you, nobody thinks of you as an 800 lb gorilla. Your arguments are backed with no facts whatsoever, no data, no valid sources; just vague personal anecdotes, lots of references to a primitive tribal religion from the Middle East, and holier-than-thou statements about spirituality. I appreciate your presenting your point of view. I find it very different, and interesting, and in that sense I think it makes a valuable contribution to discussion. But under no circumstances should you think of yourself as a large gorilla.

Posted by: phx8 at October 30, 2007 1:58 AM
Comment #237208

tomd,

It’s STILL the same UGLY TRUCK.

Whatever the uglyness.
What matter is it’s coming toward us. All of us. And faster.

Do you want to bet your life, the lives of your children and the lives of their that it’s just an optical illusion or will you, following basic safety instinct, move away from a possible dangerous course?

Posted by: Philippe Houdoin at October 30, 2007 6:46 AM
Comment #237209

Pam,

Man-made climate change? Sounds like an oxymoron to me.

Sounds like being moron to me.
And we know since long how men can be morons eventually, right!?!

Posted by: Philippe Houdoin at October 30, 2007 7:01 AM
Comment #237210
And, as you can probably tell, I am not your everyday, garden-variety, namby-pamby, wimpy-wimpy, milk-toast Christian. I stare God in his eyeball everyday. There are only a few of us around.

Thanks God!
;-)

Posted by: Philippe Houdoin at October 30, 2007 7:04 AM
Comment #237212

Pam,

I have a question for all those global warming experts. Why are they always all bundled up when you see them up there in the Arctic or wherever they take their measurements? They always have on big, furry hats, big coats, and they always have gloves on. I know it is somewhat cold up there, but the way they make things sound with this global warming business, they should be able to afford to lose some of the heavy clothing. They’d be more credible if they did.

Sure. In just a few decades the average temperature in artic areas goes up from -37° to -34°, but it’s not enough to convince you that the world climate is warming.

BUT sacrifice some scientific guy there by forcing him being naked while claiming it’s 3° above the oldies -37° would bring him some credibility in your mind?

Hello! Use your brain.

Posted by: Philippe Houdoin at October 30, 2007 7:15 AM
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