Democrats & Liberals Archives

Don't Explain the Problem; Just Cut Taxes

How can we win the Iraq War? Cut taxes. How would you reduce crime in America? Cut taxes. How would you reduce the budget deficit? Cut taxes. Is there any time you would raise taxes? No, never. Always cut taxes. This seems to be the position of all Republcian candidates for president, except for Ron Paul.

Rudy Giuliani seems to love this idea more so than any of the other Republican presidential contenders. At yesterday's debate, one of the questioners, David Yepsen, asked Guiliani:

Mayor Giuliani, how do you answer — in Minnesota, Governor Pawlenty, who vetoed an increase in his state gas tax, said now he may consider one. Is this Republican dogma against taxes now precluding the ability of you and your party to come up with the revenues that the country needs to fix its bridges?

Giuliani did not answer directly, but you can guess his viewpoint from this:

David, there’s an assumption in your question that is not necessarily correct, sort of the Democratic, liberal assumption: "I need money; I raise taxes.”

Later, Yepsen questioned another Republican:

Governor Romney, do you want to cut taxes to fix more bridges?

It never occurs to Republicans that you need taxes to run a government - even an incompetent government such as we now have. As a matter of fact, it costs more to run incompetent governments than efficient and useful ones.

No matter what the problem the Republican answer always is "Cut taxes."

But like everything else in this administration, it's a lie. Republicans cut taxes for the affluent and raise taxes for the middle class. This is part of the trickle down philosophy: You want good government, you pay for it; we, the wealthy, already have government that serves our needs.

Cutting taxes is great as a political motto for Republicans. Don't worry or talk about the problem. The solution always is "CUT TAXES."

Posted by Paul Siegel at August 6, 2007 4:41 PM
Comments
Comment #228533

Paul:

I’m fascinated. Who said they would cut taxes to win the war?

“It never occurs to Republicans that you need taxes to run a government…”

Really?! Wow. I knew the Repubs had lost some IQ points, but I had no idea.

This post is a complete waste of time. What possible purpose does ridiculous hyperbole like this serve?

I suggest you get constructive or get off. You only fuel the fire with this crap.

Or was that your intention all along?

Posted by: Chi Chi at August 6, 2007 5:12 PM
Comment #228535


Raising taxes is great as a political motto for Democrats. Don’t worry or talk about the problem. The solution always is “RAISE TAXES.”

Posted by: cliff at August 6, 2007 5:28 PM
Comment #228536

Paul
Don’t you think we pay enough taxes? What little relief I got was welcomed.

Posted by: KAP at August 6, 2007 5:28 PM
Comment #228538

Chi Chi,

It’s not Paul that keeps chirping the mantra-esque Republican bywords. He’s only observing what anyone watching the Republican debate could see. Of course, there are plenty of more substantive things to talk about, and actual Republican politicians, especially governors, do acknowledge the necessity of some taxes for government to do its job. But on the campaign trail and in the messaging it certainly seems obvious to this observer that cutting taxes is one of the fallback messages whenever they can’t answer a question more substantively. You can hardly blame us for occasionally being flip in mocking that, even if there is a tad of hyperbole involved. Otherwise you’re holding Paul to a higher standard than Guiliani, who seems to expect us to take it on faith that lowering taxes will bring in more revenue just because he can point to a couple of examples where he claims it did just that. There are plenty more which show the opposite. One thing for sure about this anti-tax Republican mania of the past 28 years is a rapidly growing divide between the wealthy and the poor. And that’s unhealthy for us and our future - more than a few rich folks are even scared by it.

Posted by: Walker Willingham at August 6, 2007 5:42 PM
Comment #228539

Doesn’t say much for the voters who support them, does it, that such a simpleton answer to all ills of the nation has such currency to trade for a vote.

Posted by: David R. Remer at August 6, 2007 6:20 PM
Comment #228540

Chi Chi,

Actually, Tom Delay said the most important thing that could be done during a war was cut taxes (that was before he resigned from the House). That’s a paraphrase, but I’m pretty sure you can Google it.

Posted by: Donna at August 6, 2007 6:22 PM
Comment #228557

If only the rich benefit from tax cuts, why do Republicans keep on advocating such cuts so openly. Surley, it must be bad politics to appeal to a small minority. Dems should be happy. In fact, you should go around calling Republicans the party of lower taxes and brag that Democrats are not like that.

I do not enjoy paying taxes, but my motivation in not wanting them raised is NOT to save myself a few dollars. I want the government to be less intrusive into my life. The more taxes they collect, the more they can do to bother us.

I also do not believe all taxes are equal. Captial gains should be taxed likely. Taxing captial gains is like cutting growing branches off a fruit tree.

I also strongly advocate carbon taxes.

But raising taxes is never cost free. When we decide to tax, it means that we believe the government has a better judgement re how to use the money than the taxpayers. There are many cases when this is true or necessary, but many others when it is not.

Posted by: Jack at August 6, 2007 9:04 PM
Comment #228568

Paul,

Is there any time you would raise taxes? No, never. Always cut taxes.


No. There is entirely too (oooo) much taxation in this country; if the gov’t wants more money, then let them reallocate the funds that they already have available. Hell, let them prove that they are fiscally responsible, first.

It is actually the other way around, though; the left is hell-bent on raising taxes with everything. Gas prices high; raise the gas tax. Minnesota Bridge collapsed; raise taxes. Tax the rich…blah, blah, blah. It never ends.

The left is so hell-bent on the gov’t interfering in people’s lives that they want people (constantly) dependent on the gov’t. Keep in mind, this is the same gov’t that cannot secure our borders or run industries (airline, oil, healthcare) successfully; yet, they want to take over people’s lives. They are threatened by individuals.

Posted by: rahdigly at August 6, 2007 10:16 PM
Comment #228572

If taxes are so good, where are the Democratic constituents out there protesting:

“Support our Troops, Raise our Taxes!!”

“Destroy Big Oil, Raise Gas Taxes!”

“Build our Bridges, Raise our Taxes!”

“Feed the Poor, Raise our Taxes!”

“Save our Earth, Raise our Taxes!”

“Give us Healthcare, Raise our Taxes!”

“Pay our Heat Bills, Raise our Taxes!”

“Pay our Mortgage, Raise our Taxes!”

“Fund our Education, Raise our Taxes!”

When the Democratic Party has their speakers give speeches about our troops, high gas prices, our infrastructure, feeding the poor, saving the Earth, giving us Universal Healthcare, providing assistance to families, paying for government housing, and funding Education, at their Democratic National Convention, I want to hear these chants ring out throughout the entire building!! These are the perfect chants for Democratic contituents to show overwhelming support for the Democratic hierarchy. Such chants would give the Democrats a mandate to carry out their wishes upon the people. Certainly, if the Democratic Party constituency is truly behind the Democrats, we will hear these chants reverberating throughout the Convention.

JD

Posted by: JD at August 6, 2007 11:04 PM
Comment #228586

JD, they are saying ‘raise THEIR taxes’, meaning give me what I want but make someone else pay for it.

What they fail to realize is that by the very nature of our society the middle class WILL end up paying those new taxes no matter how much they are targetted to the rich. So when they fail the cycle repeats itself until we end up… well where we are. A government trying to provide every aspect of our lives and dictate every other while doing so with their hands in our pocketbooks (of course, it costs to do that and the politicians need expensive houses, cars, staff, etc…)

Posted by: Rhinehold at August 7, 2007 1:01 AM
Comment #228598
Captial gains should be taxed likely. Taxing captial gains is like cutting growing branches off a fruit tree.

Oh, you mean pruning. I heard that’s good for the tree. Keeps it healthy.

Posted by: American Pundit at August 7, 2007 3:06 AM
Comment #228602

I think I get it now, how dumb of me that someone hasn’t figured it out by this time.
Lets see how all of this shit comes to fruition.
All of us paycheck earning grunts should work 40-70 hrs. per week, then all of our employer’s send our wages and their profit over to some bureaucratic agency, then they in return send us whatever they deem appropriate for our living expenses.

Damn, all of the countrys problems are solved!!
Now there will be healthcare for anybody and everyone that can cross our borders, After all we must have equal access for everyone.

The school system can have new, bigger and better
buildings with all the latest and greatest equipment, so nobody will feel underprivileged.
The system can now hire the best and brightest educator’s our money can buy.
Hell, the system could start them out with a six
figure income, which must be turned over to the
government for a fair distribution of their living expenses.
Now the kids can learn how to rap with the best of them in between their learning all the cultural
bullshit the system predicates upon them.
After all they must be taught how to accept and not to offend anyone, no matter how sick or depraved their lifestyle is.

Now on to the nations infrastructure, no need to worry, problem solved, the bureaucrats got it covered.
There will be no need to rebuild all of the bridges and highways since the government will
now regulate what, where and when we drive.
I can almost smell the clean green fresh air now!

Just think about all the big fancy buildings the bureaucrats will have, damn, now they can replace
the U.N. building that we so desperately need.
Don’t forget about the five million sq. ft. court houses that project the power structure that we must obey and bow down to, especially when we’re caught driving on the wrong day, or the wrong place, or the wrong type of vehicle.
Now these bureaucratic shit eating despots can have reeducation centers for all they deem necessary for further brainwashing.
Remember, clean and green, if not, off to the center.
Remember, no mention of God, if you do, off to the center.
Remember, not to offend with hate speech, if you do, off to the center.
Remember, no derogatory statements against any one political party or faction, you must include them all, (equal time I guess), to the center you go.
Now these S.O.B’s will have all the money they need to solve all the problems of the globe and to create their utopia.

As for taxes???? FUCK NO, I’m for total confiscation and gov. control, after all they are so much brighter and they know whats better for us then we do.

Lets have an election and no one shows up to vote!
What a hoot!!

The path to enlightenment is seldom chosen!
The junkyard is full of dreams!
If you won’t control you will be controlled!
The two most common things in the universe are
hydrogen and stupidity.

Posted by: Perry at August 7, 2007 7:17 AM
Comment #228605

I have questions. How can you lower taxes in the era of no bid contracts????????????
Should we not have accountability??????? Who will pay for the unbelievable amount of corporate welfare we are handing out??????? Take these people of welfare!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Go out and get an honest job like the rest of us!!!!!!!! You will not need to raise taxes if you take these lazy #&%@* of welfare. The republicans have created the largest welfare program in the history of this country. The rest of us have to work and pay our taxes, take them off welfare and make them get a job and pay taxes like the rest of us. If you take them off welfare we can generate a tax base by shifting the money over for fixing the schools, roads and bridges. All you have to do is take bids on the projects and ask for accountability. Think of what this would do for the economy!!!!!!!!!! Don’t you understand how a business works????? Make a wise investment, take bids for the project, get some accountability, and enjoy the return on your investment!!!!!!!! Get off welfare!!!!!! Think how good you will feel to get out and do something productive for a change.

Posted by: Outraged at August 7, 2007 9:28 AM
Comment #228607

I thought the two most common things in the universe were stupidity and delusion. Thanks for the laugh.

Posted by: Mike in Tampa at August 7, 2007 9:49 AM
Comment #228614
Don’t you think we pay enough taxes? What little relief I got was welcomed.

I’m guessing you’re either benefitting from ending the marriage penalty or the child tax credit. Both of those were put into the GOP tax cuts at Democratic insistence as the price for their support.

Those middle class tax cuts make up less than 25% of the total tax cut package. All the rest goes to capital gains, stock dividend and inheritance (on estates over $4 million) tax cuts. Most people don’t benefit from any of those — not even if they have a 401k.

The middle class tax cuts were unanimously renewed a couple years ago. Democrats love middle class tax cuts and want more of them. They’ll be payed for by rolling back the other 75%+ of Bush’s tax cuts that only benefit the top 2% wealthy elites.

KAP, that’s not going to affect you a bit — except to give you more middle class tax relief while balancing the federal budget.

Posted by: American Pundit at August 7, 2007 11:47 AM
Comment #228618


I would love to see a comparison of say the 12 largest industrialized nations tax rates. I wonder where American would be ranked on that list? Is our tax burden larger or smaller than most of the other nations?

Posted by: jlw at August 7, 2007 12:09 PM
Comment #228622

The reason why people want taxes cut is b/c taxes are too(oooo) high and gov’t spending is out of control! Taxes should be cut and the gov’t (Fed, state, local) should be “Fiscally” Responsible!!

Posted by: rahdigly at August 7, 2007 12:27 PM
Comment #228623

Smaller. Our national debt is larger.

Posted by: David R. Remer at August 7, 2007 12:28 PM
Comment #228624

Our tax burden is smaller, but we are more free.
Imagine how much less our tax burden was and would be IF we had continued along the Constitutional Republic path our founders laid out for us.
Imagine how more free we would be IF we had continued along the Constitutional Republic path our founders laid out for us.

Instead, our laziness has taken us away from that path and onto the path of being just another “democracy.” A path which will end just as any other “democracy” ends, in failure.

Posted by: kctim at August 7, 2007 12:43 PM
Comment #228629
but we are more free.
How am I more free than a Brit, kctim? Just curious. Posted by: American Pundit at August 7, 2007 12:58 PM
Comment #228644

I am going to have to put myself in the reallocation crowd. We should stop wasteing defense dollars on stupid,useless weapons systems like star wars and the B1 etc. and put the money to infrastructure and hugher education. We would be more secure in the long run.

Posted by: BillS at August 7, 2007 2:32 PM
Comment #228649
Smaller. Our national debt is larger.


There is more money coming in, paying down the deficit, to the IRS via higher tax revenues collected b/c of the tax cuts.

Posted by: rahdigly at August 7, 2007 3:08 PM
Comment #228653

rahdigly, and our national debt continues to grow. Now about to turn 9 trillion dollars. Deficits of any size grow the national debt.

Also note, the economy is slowing, and with that slowing will come reduced revenues. Cutting deficits in half infinitely still means a growing national debt. Republicans swan song over reducing deficits is as bogus an argument as WMD in Iraq was. Republicans were handed a 5.65 Trillion national debt, and now it is 8.9 Trillion. So much for cutting taxes. It just doesn’t work in addressing the bankrupting of the nation by debt.

Our trade deficit last year was over 800 billion and the average is over 3/4 trillion PER YEAR. That it 3/4 of trillion U.S. dollars leaving America every year and not returning and not circulating throughout our economy to create jobs, pay down debts, or improve education.

Tax cuts, the Republican fantasy has been exposed. Yet its adherents simply reject reality in order to keep from admitting they were wrong or duped. Such cognitive dissonance is truly amazing.

Posted by: David R. Remer at August 7, 2007 3:32 PM
Comment #228669
There is more money coming in, paying down the deficit, to the IRS via higher tax revenues collected b/c of the tax cuts.

That’s just not true. It’s a fact that without the tax cuts, more money would be coming in. Didn’t any of you guys take basic math?

Posted by: American Pundit at August 7, 2007 7:55 PM
Comment #228670

In fact, if we just roll back the tax cuts that affect the top 2%, then the budget balances.

Posted by: American Pundit at August 7, 2007 7:56 PM
Comment #228672


“You work every day of the year, except for three lousy weeks. You make around a hundred thousand dollars. Your boss takes two thirds, and gives you one third, and you give a third of that to the government. Your government uses what it takes to build all the roads and schools and police and pensions, and your boss takes his share and buys a mansion on an island somewhere. So naturally you complain about your bloated inefficent Big Brother of a government, and you always vote for the pro-owner party. How stupid is that.”—- Fourty Signs Of Rain by Kim Stanley Robinson.

Posted by: jlw at August 7, 2007 8:26 PM
Comment #228685

jlw,

That Kim Stanley Robinson is obviously not very learned in math or understanding of basic governmental facts.

The ‘INFRASTRUCTURE’ is mostly paid for by taxes on gasoline and automobiles, as it should be. The majority of our income tax goes to entitlement programs. The second ‘majority’ is for national defense.

And instead of buying one guy a mansion, as you say, we are buying several thousand men (and women) mansions (more than one actually) and beg and scrape for a bit of that money to come back to us somehow.

A better quote would be ‘Income taxes are evil in nature.’ — Rhinehold

Posted by: Rhinehold at August 7, 2007 9:45 PM
Comment #228686

Btw, I wonder where this country would be if there were no business owners? I don’t understand why people who risk their livelyhood and retirement, etc to start, run and employ most of the middle class are seen as the evil ones while the ones who take our income, at the point of a gun, to redistribute it as ‘the majority’ see fit are seen as the good guys?

It just doesn’t make any logical sense to me.

Posted by: Rhinehold at August 7, 2007 9:50 PM
Comment #228700

AP said: “In fact, if we just roll back the tax cuts that affect the top 2%, then the budget balances.”

That is simply NOT TRUE!

Democrats have exempted 11 bills from PAYGO already, and there is no sign of their foregoing these exemptions. Iraq, even if we pull out, is going to require a billion a week to maintain ready response forces in the region. Added to the PAYGO exempted spending bills past and coming, and the slowing economy ahead, the rescinding the temporary tax cuts of 2001-2003, still results in deficits, American Pundit.

Here is a graph from CBPP (PayGo exempted Bills not included in graph) :


Posted by: David R. Remer at August 8, 2007 12:14 AM
Comment #228705

Rhinehold, that is a decidedly one sided and prejudiced view. The goal of redistributing wealth to insure the welfare of the nation and its people DOES NOT require war on business owners.

As has been the case for many decades, government has taxed business and capital gains, AND YET, business has prospered in America. It is not an either, or, proposition. It is a ratio proposition. How much revenue can be extracted from business as compensation for government protections, infrastructure, and defense which those businesses could not survive without, while, insuring businesses prosper and continue to provide jobs.

Your, this or that, premise is totally and completely out of touch with reality and history and is prejudiced toward a view that business profitability should trump human suffering, cost sharing, and wealth redistribution that benefits the whole nation of people. What business could survive without public roads and subsidized rail and port transportation infrastructure, police and military defense, the court and legal infrastructure that protects and enforces contracts, and a host of other services provided by the government (the people) at large?

It is just and right that business include in their operating costs reimbursement to the government, (the people) for the services it/they provide for businesses benefit and protections.

Posted by: David R. Remer at August 8, 2007 12:41 AM
Comment #228711

David, it’s not my view, it’s the view of the majority of progressives I hear from. I support ending all corporate welfare and making sure that businesses help pay for the services they use with usage fees, but I do not view them as ‘evil’ or ‘good’. They just are. Some are better than others (which is why I work for one of the better ones).

How many times do we see an attack levied on ‘big business’ as an evil entity? The term ‘evil corporation’ gets over 2 MILLION hits on google.

Posted by: Rhinehold at August 8, 2007 1:08 AM
Comment #228720

Rhinehold

Businesses “just are” is not correct. They are not a product of nature like nuclear families or stalagtites. The are commercial entities licensed by the state that must adhere to whatever said states require,period.You are correct that some behave responsibly and some do not but bottom line is they behave for the bottom line.That compass is not the same one a reasonable and decent human being uses although some times it may point in the same direction.That is why it it is so destructive to democracy to give them the same rights as individuals.

Posted by: BillS at August 8, 2007 2:15 AM
Comment #228740

According to Novak, self styled prince of darkness, defecits and the debt do not matter, only taxes matter.

I think that the funny thing about our current political lineup to me is that the Democrats, elected by the blue states, do a better job of looking after the interests of the red states, and the Rpblcns, elected by the red states, do a better job of looking after the interests of the blue states.

A confederacy of states has effectively been re-established, and the individual states are looking after their residents to the extent of their financial ability to do so, since the federal government is mostly there for military and war expenditures. Lower federal taxes are actually more in the interests of the blue states than the red.

Posted by: ohrealy at August 8, 2007 10:43 AM
Comment #228745

This might present a problem with the dollar and everything else:

China threatens ‘nuclear option’ of dollar sales

Posted by: womanmarine at August 8, 2007 11:36 AM
Comment #228776
Chinese officials have hinted that they may cash in its trillions of dollars in U.S. foreign reserves as a way to threaten the United States congress to ease up on its push for re-evaluation of the Chinese yuan. If China began liquidating these massive investments, the U.S. financial markets would face a major tailspin.
Posted by: womanmarine at August 8, 2007 4:18 PM
Comment #228777
That is simply NOT TRUE!

David, your CBPP graph is from 2004. I have a CBO spreadsheet around here somewhere from 2005 that backs me up.

But the point I was making is that tax cuts don’t bring in more revenue. They bring in less. That’s just basic math.

Posted by: American Pundit at August 8, 2007 4:19 PM
Comment #228790

Rhinehold,

David and everyone else knows you’re right.
In every decade in the last 50 years where taxes were raised the economy went south within five years of passage. In every instance that they were lowered the economy skyrocketed. That is fact. But, not only the economy, but income to the government as well.
The problem has never been lower taxes, but completely uncontrolled spending. It is embarrassing that the government can’t do their tasks with the exhorbitant funds we give them. And that is true of both parties though the Democrats have always been far and away worse in the spending category!

JD

Posted by: JD at August 8, 2007 8:20 PM
Comment #229100

AP, true tax cuts while stimulating the economy do NOT generate net gains in revenues, Bernanke and Greenspan have both testified to this before Congress. (Both Republicans BTW).

But, it is also true that rescinding those tax cuts would not end the deficits. You must take into account the vast increased spending programs that have been implemented like the Rx drug plan under Medicare. Those ongoing obligations now exceed the revenues of rescinded tax cuts on the wealthiest, by a substantial margin.

It still is amazing to me how Democrats continue to defend spending as not the problem and Republicans continue to defend tax cuts as not the problem regarding debt and deficits. BOTH Democrats and Republicans are responsible for these deficits and debt and that fact could not be more blatantly obvious if it were Jimmy Durante’s nose on your face.

Posted by: David R. Remer at August 12, 2007 2:21 PM
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