Democrats & Liberals Archives

The Myth of the Gang of 88

There is a myth circulating these days that a group of 88 Duke professors bought an ad that essentially lynched members of the Duke lacrosse team. In fact, the actual ad says almost nothing about the rape case.

If you click on the ad (and I hope you do), you will see that it is mainly quotes from students and community members complaining about how much racism and sexism they see around Duke. In typical academic style, they are trying to zoom out and see the big picture. I've never been to Durham, so I won't pretend to know whether the statements are accurate. Maybe Duke is a hotbed of bigotry, or maybe the professors who published the ad kept looking until they could find enough whiny students to quote.

In any case, the ad does not indict any particular individuals. The closest it comes to making an assertion about the facts of the case is

These students are shouting and whispering about what happened to this young woman and to themselves.

That's as close to libel as the ad gets. Some unnamed thing "happened to this young woman". In hindsight, it does appear that nothing much really happened. But the so-called Gang of 88 were far from the only people assuming that the young woman was attacked by somebody. When a woman says she was raped, it is human nature to be sympathetic and assume that there is some validity to her claims.

There are only two quotes that allude to the accused players (however vaguely) at all. For the sake of fairness and completeness, I will publish them both:

If it turns out that these students are guilty, I want them expelled.

This is a remarkably mild statement. People are who guilty of rape should go to prison. And notice the "If..."

I can’t help but think about the different attention given to what has happened from what it would have been if the guys had been not just black but participating in a different sport, like football, something that’s not so upscale.

I don't have much to say about this one. It is basically just an assertion that our system of justice is rigged against poor black people. Crazier things have been said.

No doubt, a lot of people should be embarrassed about how they handled the Duke rape case, most of all Mike Nifong. Hopefully this case will remind us all that "accused" doesn't mean "guilty". That applies to the Duke professors, too. They are basically being tried in the media for libel, but they are almost being libeled themselves.


Posted by Woody Mena at June 19, 2007 6:16 AM
Comments
Comment #223432

To give you some idea what I am pushing back against, consider this piece by Thomas Sowell. He refers to the ad as “hysterical”. I’m not seeing it.

Posted by: Woody Mena at June 19, 2007 7:06 AM
Comment #223433

A follow-up letter by the same group. It has led to charges of revisionism, but I think they accurately describe their earlier words.


Posted by: Woody Mena at June 19, 2007 7:17 AM
Comment #223434

If the kids were liberals the left would have supported them. So the politically correct school tried and convicted them in advance and now it has settled out of court, paid them off for their very disgusting behavior.

Most likely the school got caught not having clear policies they could follow in a situation without passion and the prospect of being biased or falling prey to a politically correct agenda that costs them millions of dollars once the kids were found to be innocent.

It really is a hard situation. If your childs roommate is charged with murder….do you want that student to continue to room with your child until they are proven guilty? Of course not.

What’s funny is the left still wants to oppose the innocent students, punish them, rewrite history, and support the politically correct lying stripper.

Posted by: StephenL at June 19, 2007 7:20 AM
Comment #223435
If the kids were liberals

They weren’t? The issue never even occurred to me.

It really is a hard situation. If your childs roommate is charged with murder….do you want that student to continue to room with your child until they are proven guilty? Of course not.

I was reminded of the Duke case when the tragedy at Virginia Tech occurred. In that case people were asking why the university didn’t do anything. But we can’t have it both ways. We can’t demand that all the dangerous students get expelled and all the harmless, innocent students get due process. Universities don’t have a crystal ball.

What’s funny is the left still wants to oppose the innocent students, punish them, rewrite history, and support the politically correct lying stripper.

Who is doing these things?

Posted by: Woody Mena at June 19, 2007 7:28 AM
Comment #223436

I’ve read the article, it talks as if the rape were a fact, as if these guys did it, it’s pure slander….and a “disclaimer line” or two using the word “if” doesn’t clean up the massively negative and harmful impact this had to have on the INNOCENT students who were FALSELY ACCUSED and from the looks of this ad…falsely found guilty by their own teachers.

The School has now settled, no doubt paying millions of dollars for the privilege of behaving like radicalized left wing attack dogs when they got a chance to accuse students of a politically incorrect crime. Political correctness it appears means those who are deemed to be not politically correct do not get equal treatment with those who are. And even when they are found to be innocent, radicalized and hateful left wingers never have to say they’re sorry!

The school and faculty should have put out a solid statement indicating that these students are innocent until proven guilty and the school and faculty do not presuppose their guilt nor condemn them until such time as they be found innocent or guilty in a court of law. That could be combined with say, a policy the requires anyone being indited for particular crimes or felonies to be suspended until such time as the matter is cleared up.

So the left spent a lot of time smearing innocent kids. Now they want to say, hey, we have no remorse, no guilt, no accountability for our disgusting actions. Lets twist and spin away our moral responsibility for our own disgusting actions in condemning the innocent!

I’m not surprise at that. How about just admitting you were wrong to condemn them for something they didn’t do? For admitting you tend to respond to most news events first as a radicalized left wing spokesperson. Isn’t it easier to be honest than to lie?

Posted by: StephenL at June 19, 2007 7:38 AM
Comment #223437

StephenL,

Well, I hope other people read the ad. You are seeing something there that I’m not seeing.

It sounds like you want the professors to apologize for saying the kids were guilty (correct me if I am wrong), but they didn’t say that so they would have slander themselves to satisfy you.

Posted by: Woody Mena at June 19, 2007 7:46 AM
Comment #223439

Woody Mena, Get off your high horse!

That thing is full of attack lines like this: “But it is a disaster nonetheless. These students are shouting and whispering about what happened to this young woman and to themselves”

Why do you think the school settled? Because it didn’t want to have support those kind of attack lines to a jury. Shouting about “what happened to that girl” when NOTHING happened to that girl. The faculty signed on to that crap? And YOU JUST CAN”T SEE IT? How convenient.

If it were your innocent child that was being smeared and knifed in the back….you would get it then. Left wing hate and lies are no less hate and lies simply because they are “politically correct”.

Posted by: StephenL at June 19, 2007 8:02 AM
Comment #223441

Take it easy. First of all, there was no way Duke University was going to be sued because of something their faculty members wrote. So if they settled, it had to with their officials actions like shutting down the lacrosse team.

Secondly, there is a world of difference between alluding to “what happened” and saying that certain people are guilty of a certain crime. Some people think that hiring a stripper is a terrible act of exploitation by itself. I strongly disagree, but if I have that point of view then something bad happened.

We just have a huge difference of perception here in terms of what the words in the ad mean.

Posted by: Woody Mena at June 19, 2007 8:12 AM
Comment #223443

Woody, how do you separate talking about what happened to the girl, accepting it as fact with NOT attacking the students who are falsely accused.

Lets Read this thing a little closer and cover the lines you didn’t want to deal with.

“These students are shouting and whispering about what happened to this young woman” NOTHING HAPPENED TO THE WOMAN.

“We go to class with racist classmates” NO, they were not racist, they were not guilty, they did not do it.

“if something like this happens to
me ” Nothing happened!

“no one is really talking about how to keep the young woman herself central
to this conversation, how to keep her humanity before us” No, she was not an “innocent victim that no one was paying attention to, she was a liar who was destroying the college experience of some young men because people were paying attention to her.

“The students know that the disaster didn’t begin on March 13th” No, there was no disaster this is more pre judging and smearing of innocent people who as it turned out….were found to be innocent.

The school paid millions in a settlement to these falsely accused kids for disbanding a sport? YOu believe that? Think before you spin, think! That’s not believable. The school turned on these kids and then they settled rather than face the public humiliation in a court room and risk MASSIVE settlement by a jury.

“I am only comfortable talking about this event
in my room with close friends. I am actually afraid to even bring it up in public” They didn’t do anything, they were NOT guilty.

Look at all those departments lining up against these students! A few disclaimer lines does not excuse this backstabbing.

Stop defending that which cannot be defended. Stop supporting a left wing public lynching of innocent people. You can’t cover up and spin away a lynch job like this with a disclaimer or two.

Posted by: StephenL at June 19, 2007 8:43 AM
Comment #223445

I don’t really know what else to say here. You see almost every sentence as a statement of guilt.

Posted by: Woody Mena at June 19, 2007 8:59 AM
Comment #223450

Woody,

I find it very, very interesting that the ad says…

“If it turns out that these students are guilty, I want them expelled.”

No where in the ad does it say…

“If it turns out that these students are innocent, I want the accuser prosecuted.”

Guilt by omission.

Typical.

Posted by: Jim T at June 19, 2007 10:53 AM
Comment #223451

StephenL, I think you are forgetting that these quotes are from before we learned these people were innocent; at the time the DA was stating that these guys were guilty left and right. If you want to blame someone for ruining these innocent kid’s lives, 100% of the balme lies with the DA and not the school.

Posted by: Warren P at June 19, 2007 10:56 AM
Comment #223453

Woody et al

The bottom line is that no rape occured. There was no racism involved except in railroading the suspects. All that stuff in the add is just reacting to something that never happened.

All these fools jumped to the conclusion that something was rotten. They were right. But what was rotten was the DA pushing through a prosecution. What was rotten is his pretending this crazy woman was credible and that somehow racism was an issue in her not being believed.

The Duke guys were put through a terrible ordeal. Their sport was ruined. Their coach lost his job. All out of hysteria.

All those who stoked it should be ashamed of themselves and perhaps ask what in their world view made them so guillible and stupid.

Bottom line is that the players are innocent. All those involved in saying otherwise were either lying or wrong. They should feel bad about it.

Bottom line 2 is that it was NOT about racism except as those who tried to push the rape charges made it about racism. There is no deeper context to this.

They cannot now say that “sure our facts were wrong, but the fundamental truth is right.”

Posted by: Jack at June 19, 2007 11:51 AM
Comment #223454

Jack,

I’m not sure whose facts you mean. If you mean Mike Nifong’s, I have no argument there.

If you mean the ad, it is really just a bunch of subjective reactions. There are scarcely any facts there to be wrong about.

If you mean the Duke administrators, they obviously should have been more skeptical. But then, how do you think universities should handle a student who is indicted for rape? Should he be allowed to stay on campus? I think of a lot parents would say no, it is too dangerous.

To all the conservatives (and liberals, etc.) to who outraged about this,

What do you think we should do to make sure this doesn’t happen again? Should we make sure that all defendants, even poor ones, have a good lawyer? Should we abolish the death penalty, knowing that innocent people will be convicted? Should we make sure the government can’t lock people up without a trial?

Cases like these should make people say, “Thank God for defense lawyers.”


Posted by: Woody Mena at June 19, 2007 12:12 PM
Comment #223457

StephenL-
Why do you assume the college students were conservatives?

Additionally, hasn’t it been the position of conservatives for some time now that prosecutors who don’t zealously pursue every case and rack up convictions are contributing to the decline of civilization?

Your party has helped to create an environment where respecting the civil liberties of suspects and defendants is being soft on crime, where the authorities are assumed to be in the right, and the accused assumed to be deserving of their predicament. If this had been a case involving a terrorism suspect instead of a bunch of rape suspects, you would have sided with the Prosecutor.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at June 19, 2007 2:14 PM
Comment #223458

Woody,

Thomas Sowell is a crack job. His column runs in my local paper on Fridays. His tendency is to latch on to the smallest thing, blow it out of proportion, and make it the national priority.

all,

The ad mainly want to encourage students to talk about what happened, not about the specific people or facts, but the issues of rape and race which often are not talked about.

My father went to Duke in the early sixties. Back then, everyone serving in the dining halls was black, the students were all white. Circumstances have changed mightily but it wasn’t that long ago. We need to talk about racism and rape, both of which occur a lot on student campuses (supposed hotbeds of liberalism that they are). We are supposed to be all equal under the law but society certainly is not and unfortunately the two mix. It works both ways too. Witness Nifong’s callous and destructive posturing and opportunism. He thought he had something to gain by attacking white students without facts apparently and based mostly on the notions of racism and privledge. A few decades ago Lester Maddox was elected governor of Georgia based only on his infamously chasing blacks out of his restaurant with an ax handle and peddling a bicycle backwards while sitting on the handle bars. The difference is the system of rule of law and evidence works today against rogue prosecutors like Nifong while systemic problems of race in prosecutions and difficulty of ascertaining of facts in rape cases works against justice.

The right often clings to some idealogy of fairness and equal treatment in the absence of racism or sexual assault. They think ingnoring racism is OK, that it is not the government’s job to intervene. But if it weren’t for government’s intervention we wouldn’t have had the progress we’ve seen since Lester Maddox. Whether it’s Kennedy sending in the National Guard to enforce desegregation, Johnson twisting arms to get a civil rights act, or policies of affirmative action conservatives like Sowell would not be able to pretend race doesn’t matter.

Posted by: chris2x at June 19, 2007 2:15 PM
Comment #223464

I’ve been a single man for some 30 years and have gotten to know a lot of people. From the self made and silver spoon wealthy to the alchoholic janitors and yes even strippers. Personalities have always interested me.
Having said that when this story first broke and I saw the frame the media wanted to put this in. I could only laugh a little and think, “guys your putting your faith in the word of a stripper.” Whatever you want to say they are not known as beacons of character and truth. And here you have kids who had high goals and worked very hard to be able to attend Duke. And then there is the left saying “what there’s no racism…no victim (white boys don’t count)…impossible…these boys are white and privlidged…well we will still not apologize”.
It took me until my early 20’s to realize I have no need to feel guilt except to my own conscience, not what the left tells me I’m guilty of.

Posted by: andy at June 19, 2007 3:08 PM
Comment #223466
All those who stoked it should be ashamed of themselves and perhaps ask what in their world view made them so guillible and stupid.

Jack,

Do you mean to suggest that you knew all along that the woman was lying?

That would be interesting, because according to the archives you didn’t post anything until this January, ten months after the case broke. Why did you hold back this insight for so long?

andy,

It sounds like strippers are fair game for rape in your view.

Posted by: Woody Mena at June 19, 2007 3:24 PM
Comment #223467

Woody,

There is nothing wrong with the ad. It doesn’t presume guilt on the attackers whom we know now to be innocent. Rather, it addresses the existence of racism and sexism. As someone with black and female friends, I know they still exist in our culture.

I’m afraid, though, that you are not going to get much confirmation of your views from the Right side.

I will say I am tired of certain men of God using such incidents to make political hay and to increase, in their own minds, their stature.

Posted by: Gerrold at June 19, 2007 3:29 PM
Comment #223468

andy,

Apparently you still do feel responsible as no one on the left said you were guilty. What on earth did the left say about your guilt? This is just more of the white man victim mentality. It is one of the most whining, self-pitying and distorted victim mentalities I have heard and from the self-proclaimed ideology of self-reliance. The notion that I or the liberal ideology need to apologize for Mike Nifong’s destructive grandstanding is just another conservative bogeyman.

To the right… just because racism can cut both ways doesn’t mean it is even close to the injustice done by the majority white Americans to all manner of peoples. I am a white American and I can see the work needed for justice in my country. I don’t feel ashamed or guilty because of this, just the opposite. After all I didn’t commit high crimes or misdemeanors. Only if I continue to put myself in the white camp instead of the American one, feel under attack, become reactionary and thus oppose change for justice’s sake would I need to feel guilty.

It’s typical of people of all ideologies but regarding white oppression the right needs to just grow up. Racism is not just the white man’s burden but we all have to deal with our history if we want a more just country. Just because other places in the world have even more cruel and unjust racism doesn’t mean we can’t work on our own problems.

I’m sure there will be those on the right who will get all bent out of shape, think I am anti-American because I look at my country with a critical eye. Sorry folks, I was raised on constructive criticism and the ability to look at my and others actions with detachment. The result is I see criticism as a good thing. Whether that criticism is valid is a different point all together.

Posted by: chris2x at June 19, 2007 3:36 PM
Comment #223469

Woody, typical. Again, I will restate the left will not instill guilt and shame on me.

An investigation that takes off way too quickly, a very liberal college. Foaming at the mouth media, liberals and faculty demanding these kids blood and future. And at the center a strippers accusation, not thats theres anything wrong with them (Sienfeld).
It might have turned out they were guilty it just smelled funny. Anyway who was right?

Posted by: andy at June 19, 2007 3:47 PM
Comment #223470

chris2x,
First off lets get one thing straight, I am absolutely a victim of Nothing! You’all on the left own that little phrase.
This country offers choices and options that no other civilization on earth has ever offered it’s people. I have taken advantages of these options to the best of my ability and I will live with my results.

Posted by: andy at June 19, 2007 3:58 PM
Comment #223472

andy,

At least we agree this is a great country with plenty of opportunity and that the Duke Lacrosse case was a travesty of justice.

to the conservatives,

Unfortunately, if you think an ad addressing dialogue and the need to be heard and talk about rape and racism is trying to make you feel guilty then you need examine your feelings (liberal touchy-feely talk). Based upon the preponderance of evidence and history of racism in our country your feelings of white victimhood must be based on something else. A few cases of racism cutting the other way don’t amount to much.

Posted by: chris2x at June 19, 2007 4:23 PM
Comment #223474

The Duke Lacrosse case was a terrible rush to judgement and I always thought so. It was a function of media hysteria feeding peoples apparent need for outrage and justice, despite the facts. (If you think this is a liberal bias I don’t know what to say) The supposed MSM is made up of for-profit enterprises after all. The main bias is what it has always been, give the people what they want (or at least what they think we want).

The fact the supposed crime was as much about race as the actually suggested crime, rape, shows how little regard rape actually gets in American culture or any other for that matter. After all, if it was black-on-black or white-on-white rape it would be just another man-on-female crime.

Posted by: chris2x at June 19, 2007 4:29 PM
Comment #223480

andy,

You don’t have feel guilty about whatever it is you feel guilty about.

Perhaps my “fair game” comment was misconstrued. If no one ever took the word of a stripper, than they would be me at the mercy of rapists because it would usually be “he said, she said”. Frankly, that is probably the case now. They should probably all have armed guards.

Posted by: Woody Mena at June 19, 2007 5:22 PM
Comment #223481

What the ad explicitly presupposes is that a “disaster” happened. What Woody is apparently blind to is that the ad was taken out by professors, not students. The professors selected the quotes to include in the ad. The ad was designed to turn up the volume while a criminal prosecution of students was pending.

Sorry, Woody. You want to strip the ad of ALL CONTEXT in order to excuse those who placed it and in order to deny the presuppositions it contains, which are self-evident in the context of what was occurring. You want to do that because the group of 88 share your ideology. That a group of professors would place such an ad while a criminal prosecution of students was pending is shameful even if the students were in fact guilty.

Posted by: TkMcP at June 19, 2007 5:22 PM
Comment #223483

chris2x,Good stuff. Its nice that someone is adding quality thoughts to the discussion.

I don’t see what this has to do with the left, or any political ideology. It was a juicy story with an over-zealous DA and media. I’ve never given it much thought.

Its interesting to watch StephenL and andy blame and guilt trip “the left” and the “liberal university”. I guess there is something to the myth, huh Woody. I never would have suspected that an overblown bogus rape charge in NC was somehow caused by a spectre of a political ideology, but that seems to be what quite a few people are advocating.

Everyone knows this is all Bush’s fault.

Posted by: darren159 at June 19, 2007 5:38 PM
Comment #223485

darren159 said,

Everyone knows this is all Bush’s fault.

LOL. Nice timing, funny and to the point. I too wish thoughtful commentary and not caricature did rule the political waves.

Thanks for the compliment.

Posted by: chris2x at June 19, 2007 5:59 PM
Comment #223486

TkMcP,

Actually, I don’t really share their ideology. I doubt that Duke is really the hotbed of racism and sexism they make it out to be. But if they see their community that way it’s their prerogative to say so.

It never ceases to amaze me how quickly people turn to the idea that NOBODY should say ANYTHING about a pending criminal trial, when it supports their argument. I guess I won’t be reading anything negative in the Right column about William Jefferson before he is convicted?

Posted by: Woody Mena at June 19, 2007 6:10 PM
Comment #223487

TkMcP,

I don’t think the ad was designed to “turn up the volume” but to turn up the dialogue on race and rape on campus which is after all what their stated intent was.

It’s a fair question of whether it was the right thing to do with real people’s reputations at stake but I think it was done tastefully, not mentioning the students charged. Duke students needed to talk in a communal fashion about subjects like rape, sexism, and race which students often stick their head in the sand about. Call it a teachable moment. I don’t think it was shameful at all.

Posted by: chris2x at June 19, 2007 6:10 PM
Comment #223489

Duke students needed to talk in a communal fashion about subjects like rape, sexism, and race which students often stick their head in the sand about.
Hah, says who? You? The liberal professors? I can think of about a million places I’d rather be than in a room with metro’s and new age hippies listening to their brianwashed ideology.
Look I know you need victims to get elected but just because someone doesn’t want to discuss issues under your narrow frame doesn’t mean thier head is in the sand. Broaden the frame and you might be surprised.

If anything needed to be dicussed it was, if your going to hire a stripper make sure you have good references.

Posted by: andy at June 19, 2007 6:43 PM
Comment #223494

Warren P


“I think you are forgetting that these quotes are from before we learned these people were innocent; at the time the DA was stating that these guys were guilty left and right.”


last i checked, in this country your presumed innocent until proven guilty. you had politicaly correct duke staff rushing to condem an act that never happened. you’de think these college educated folks, who obviously had no common sense, rushing to believe an overzealous prosecutor who just happened to be up for re election, and a democrat, would be smarter than that. looks like once again PC ideaology trumps common sense.

Posted by: dbs at June 19, 2007 7:13 PM
Comment #223495

andy,

There is way to much rape going on at college campuses. I don’t know why talking about that makes one a hippie or metro or whatever label your fixated on. Obviously, if “this is not acceptable and you can be prosecuted to the full extent of the law” was working we wouldn’t have so many instances of rape going on.

While your singing kumbiya and ignoring real victims of rape others are trying to improve things on college campuses. I see nothing “narrow” about that so you are going to have to be more specific.

Posted by: chris2x at June 19, 2007 7:19 PM
Comment #223500

chris2x

the fact that the staff would choose to place the ad at all, shows that they believed that it had happened, and were in CYA mode. they wanted to let everyone know that they condemn this type of behavior. unfortunately they weren’t in the least bit interested in the damage to the reputations, or the lives of those wrongly accused.

Posted by: dbs at June 19, 2007 7:33 PM
Comment #223502

That’s a good point. The would be leaders of these “discussions” are the very same people who want to ruin future’s to validate their racist and victim society views. No thanks, I’ll talk to sane people.
If you want to broaden the discusion I would throw out that we need to shorten the list of what is considered a victim. Free up a portion of Americans so that they can truly experience what it means to be an American. But I know that is just heartless and worse yet you lose votes.

Posted by: andy at June 19, 2007 7:52 PM
Comment #223504

The real scandal is just why aren’t these lacrosse players in Iraq along with the Bush twins?

Posted by: BillS at June 19, 2007 8:05 PM
Comment #223506

I must say this has been a fascinating, and unintended, psychology experiment.

I everyone people to read the ad, but the words hardly mattered to some people. They were already predisposed to the idea that it was bunch of PC college professors who were trying to lynch some poor white guys.

If you read the ad without prejudice it never says that the accused are guilty. In fact, it explicitly acknowledges that they may NOT be guilty. Some call that a “disclaimer”, but there is nothing to disclaim.

The power of suggestion of amazing. Tell some people “Liberals say there’s no elephant here” and they will see an elephant.


Posted by: Woody Mena at June 19, 2007 8:13 PM
Comment #223509

no draft. volunteer military.

Posted by: andy at June 19, 2007 9:03 PM
Comment #223511

Woody,

After reading the add, I see this more that the professors were distancing themselves from the whole “party” aspect and all the connotations associated with a Black stripper performing for a group of predominately “rich” Southern white boys that play an elitist sport for a rich Southern school in a mostly disadvantaged area than prejudging the lacrosse team of the rape.

All this hand waving about liberal professors is merely a smoke screen to hide a very real problem.

The team was stupid to hire a Black stripper. The stripper was equally, if not more, stupid for not having a body guard.

The school was correct for suspending the team, pending further investigation.
But perception is everything, and the school should not have just jettisoned the team until the investigation was complete, one way or the other.
Rape is a serious crime. That the “stripper” seems to have lied about the crime is reprehensible.

Though had these been Black athletes with a white stripper this whole incident could have turned out very differently, and, IMHO, much worse.

Posted by: Rocky at June 19, 2007 9:26 PM
Comment #223514

In focusing only on the ad, you lose sight of the full context in which it was published, which included members of the faculty making much less guarded statements in the local and national media, giving speeches, demonstrations, and even beating pots and pans outside of the lacrosse player’s residence. There was also the distribution of wanted posters with not just the accused players but the faces of ALL the members of the lacrosse team, and even when the gang of 88 wasn’t directly involved, they were definitely feeding (and certainly not standing against) the mass hysteria and witch huntthat ensued.

In this evironment, the ad and who was targeting was pretty clear.

Posted by: Loyal Opposition at June 19, 2007 9:39 PM
Comment #223516

Woody


I did not take a strong interest in the case until I wrote that post. If you follow my posts in general, however, you will find that I often say that we should wait for the process. I do not think prosecutors should talk to the media re cases in process.

There is a general problem with rape cases in that they protect the identity of the alleged victim but not of the alleged perpetrator. It is probably worse to be publicly accused of rape than of being rape. In this case, the “victim” either lied or was deluded and the poor guys were castigated for a year.

What I meant re the ad etc is that many in the university community were just a little to eager to talk about racism, sexism etc when all this case was really about was a dishonest or crazy woman and a dishonest DA. That is actually a more interesting story, like the old Perry Mason.

BTW – the legal process worked. What caused the trouble was the dishonest DA (who was brought to justice), the media and the PC establishment that made this case much more than it was.

Stephen

There so clearly was not a case. The reason this is such an interesting case is because it was so completely absurd.

The DA should have taken the charges seriously, even though the accuser was a bit on the flaky side. BUT after finding no evidence to support that she was raped at all (not to mention not by any of the team), finding several of the accused had alibis (one was filmed at an ATM) and finding contrary DNA evidence, he should have given up.

Posted by: Jack at June 19, 2007 9:54 PM
Comment #223519

“After reading the add, I see this more that the professors were distancing themselves from the whole “party” aspect and all the connotations associated with a Black stripper performing for a group of predominately “rich” Southern white boys that play an elitist sport for a rich Southern school in a mostly disadvantaged area than prejudging the lacrosse team of the rape.”

Was this quote the clincher for your assesment?

“I can’t help but think about the different attention given to what has happened from what it would have been if the guys had been not just black but participating in a different sport,like football, something that’s not so upscale.”

Posted by: andy at June 19, 2007 10:16 PM
Comment #223522

Actually, it was this;

“Regardless of the results of the police investigation, what is apparent everyday now is the anger and fear of many students who know themselves to be objects of racism and sexism, who see illuminated in this moment’s extraordinary spotlight what they live with everyday. They know that it isn’t just Duke, it isn’t everybody, and it isn’t just individuals making this disaster”

And this,

“You go to a party, you get grabbed, you get propositioned, and then you start to question yourself.”

I live in Phoenix. In neighboring Tempe is Arizona State. ASU has for decades been widely known as a party school, and only recently has begun attempting to clean up it’s image.
Binge drinking and date rape aren’t acceptable behaviour, and if this incident at Duke helps students in this country realize that they’re not invincible, and they’re actually there for an education, then perhaps something good can come out of this.

There were no winners here.

Not the team.
Not the stripper.

And certainly not the DA who unethically put career before the truth.

Posted by: Rocky at June 19, 2007 10:45 PM
Comment #223523

Liberal professors have always had big mouths, that’s not suprising. What is suprising is the recent utter lack of discretion. It’s a common disposition among young leftist collegiates, and their professors to root for the minority and against the majority. The collegiates themselves, mostly coming from middle to upper middle class white families are immediately indoctrinated by self loathing leftists, who hate crux cuts, a mother and a father, SUV’s, Ronald Reagan, and anything that in any way is white-bread. They claim to have pity, empathy, and the ability feel compassion upon request. These are people who are in touch with themselves, and able to cry. They were weeping uncontrollably for the hooker, right on cue. They spat at their students. Never an apology though. Never a, “whoops, we were wrong”. Only crap like, “It happened, and is still happening to minorities, so this miscarriage of discretion is justified”. How about any and all miscarriages of justice being reviled? What happened to the higher understanding and depth that these liberals are supposed to be endowed with? No, not in their narrow view of reallity. She had to be telling the truth according to them, not only because she was black, but because she was a prostitute, and a woman. According to them, black people are incapable of telling a lie, any woman who accuses rape was definitely raped, and prostitutes have already been given an eternal free pass circa Julia Roberts.

Posted by: Todd at June 19, 2007 11:14 PM
Comment #223525

Todd,

Yeah, but how do you really feel?

Posted by: Rocky at June 20, 2007 12:06 AM
Comment #223527

The ‘idiot 88’ should have been fired.

Posted by: David at June 20, 2007 1:11 AM
Comment #223528

What happened to the higher understanding and depth that these liberals are supposed to be endowed with? No, not in their narrow view of reallity.

Nice post Todd. Make them think, why are we always supposed to look in the mirror? Their solutions (pc, gov. handouts, shame) don’t work, give good old conservatism a chance.

Posted by: andy at June 20, 2007 1:14 AM
Comment #223537
There was also the distribution of wanted posters with not just the accused players but the faces of ALL the members of the lacrosse team,

LO,

I deplore the poster and the tactic “guilt by association” in general. Which is what you using when you try to associate the professors with the poster.

The ‘idiot 88’ should have been fired.

Thankfully there is such a thing as academic freedom, and you can’t fire faculty members for complaining about racism and campus safety.

Posted by: Woody Mena at June 20, 2007 7:13 AM
Comment #223539

Since we all seem to agree that Nifong’s behavior was inexcusable, I encourage everyone to also read this piece in Slate claiming that his conduct is not at all unusual and it is just a fluke that he got punished.

Key graf

Despite their terrifying power to ruin lives, prosecutors are afforded almost unparalleled discretion to do their jobs and extraordinary deference from the courts. As a result, serious sanctions for prosecutorial misdeeds are virtually unheard of. This makes it highly unlikely that Nifong’s comeuppance will deter aggressive prosecutors. Instead, his punishment will be seen for what it is: a freakish anomaly.
Posted by: Woody Mena at June 20, 2007 7:22 AM
Comment #223546

Another right-wing blame-the-liberals piece by Kathleen Townsend. Should makes a couple of good points, but this sentence struck my eye:

If the university really wants to redeem itself, a better remedy would be for university President Richard Brodhead to institute a new academic program to examine how totalitarian, politically correct groupthink is destroying America’s institutions of higher learning.

Anyone see the paradox here?

By her logic, a totalitarian institution should start a program to investigate its own totalitarian nature! That would be pretty self-defeating wouldn’t it? Surely they would find all of the dissidents and throw them in the gulag!

Posted by: Woody Mena at June 20, 2007 8:25 AM
Comment #223558

Jack,

Nifong has crashed and burned. I hope the students’ lawyers in civil suits squeeze him for every penny. This points out the need for defendant’s rights to be scrupulously honored, and for prosecutorial misconduct to be punished.

That said, do you really find it necessary to claim that being accused of rape is worse than being raped? That strikes me as astonishingly insensitive. Like most males, I know women who have been raped, and I could never look them in the eye after making a statement like that.

Look, being falsely accused is terrible. So is being raped. That’s all that needs to be said.

Posted by: Gerrold at June 20, 2007 11:01 AM
Comment #223839

Gerrold

In this case the accuser was lying. There no rape had occurred. There have now been many cases where DNA evidence has exonerated men and it is always the case that the man is innocent until proven guilty. They should show their pictures only after/if they are found guilty.

It is possible to accuses someone of rape when none occurred, as in the Duke case. If you shield only one party, you may invite abuse and false accusations.

Posted by: Jack at June 23, 2007 12:10 AM
Comment #240994

How you can defend the Gang of 88 is beyond comprehension. But, it’s cool - you’re obviously a liberal who doesn’t care about rights of others and it demonstrates liberal irrational thought perfectly.

Posted by: Maria at December 18, 2007 8:23 PM
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