Democrats & Liberals Archives

Education: Kryptonite To Republicans?

The dumber we are, the more likely we are to vote Republican. That’s a fact. Indisputable and irrefutable. Ok, Im being deliberately provocative and I fully recognize that the country has many, many smart Republicans. But the figures don’t lie - voters in blue states (2004 Presidential election) are on the whole smarter than voters in red states. So I pose the question at the end of this analysis: why?

The following chart is derived from the 2004 Census Report On Educational Attainment. The full report, from which I stripped this data, is here.

I added to that report the way the state voted in the Presidential election of 2004, and I then calculated the number of people per state with the level of education specified. (This information came from the 2004 Census - I divided the over-25 population in each state by the percentage of graduates to come up with the numbers.)

I then tallied the numbers of people with the specified level of education and divided by the total red or blue population to derive an overall percentage of people with either a college or high school education across the country, broken down by party.

The result, as you will see below, is very telling. In states that voted for Kerry, the average percentage of college graduates is 30.177%.

In states that voted for Bush, the average percentage of college graduates is 24.932%.

If we assume that a college education is an indicator of intelligence, we can then hypothesize that the average voter in a blue state is 21% smarter than the average voter in a red state. (24.932 x 121% = 30.168). Ok, that's silly. I retract.

The disparity between Republican states and Democratic ones is smaller when one analyzes the High School results. Red states had an average of 83.145% High School graduates, compared to the blue states’ 85.903% average graduate rate.

It is interesting also to note that red states occupy the bottom 10 places in the state ranking, and only 2 of the top 10. (Colorado, of course, bucked the national trend by voting for Democratic control of both its House and Senate, while still inexplicably voting for Bush - and Colorado has by far the largest percentage of graduates, at 45.7%, some 9% ahead of Hawaii at #2.)

Seriously for a moment, do you think that this does, to some extent, explain why education suffers major cuts under Republican administrations? Are the Republicans afraid of a more educated populace?


RED STATES:

Total Number Over 25 – 97,180,000

Total Number H/S Grads – 80,801,000
Total Percentage H/S Grads – 83.145%

Total Number College Grads – 24,229,000
Total Percentage College Grads – 24.932%


BLUE STATES

Total Number Over 25 – 91,201,000

Total Number H/S Grads – 78,345,000
Total Percentage H/S Grads – 85.903%

Total Number College Grads – 27,522,000
Total Percentage College Grads – 30.177%

Posted by Jon Rice at May 30, 2007 10:51 AM
Comments
Comment #221661

Jon,

You’re going to get some pretty heavy criticism for this post.
I think it’s about time we recognize the “trailer park” segment of our society and their contributions to politics.

“That school didn’t learn me nothin.”
anonymous from Kentuky

Posted by: Andre M. Hernandez at May 30, 2007 11:30 AM
Comment #221664

Andre - yeah, I’m going to take some flak. It’s designed to stimulate some debate, so I hope it doesn’t start a flame war instead.

I really do want to hear any hypotheses regarding what I see as a correlation between lower education and Republican policies on that subject - perhaps I’m blinded by my liberal spectacles, or perhaps there really is something here. Either way, intelligent argument is encouraged, and I hope to hear from folks on both sides of the fence.

Jon

Posted by: Jon Rice at May 30, 2007 11:49 AM
Comment #221667

And when you get all the way to the left this is how smart you really get to be! Yahhhh Cindy Shehan, now that the far left has disappointed you too, maybe you should go to Cuba and get even smarter:

Venezuela’s Chavez widens attack on opposition media
Wed May 30, 2007 9:11AM EDT

By Christian Oliver

CARACAS (Reuters) - Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez on Tuesday called opposition news channel Globovision an enemy of the state and said he would do what was needed to stop it from inciting violence, only days after he shut another opposition broadcaster.

Tens of thousands of Venezuelans marched in Caracas in a fourth consecutive day of protests over Chavez’s closure of the RCTV network - a move which has sparked international criticism that the leftist leader’s reforms are undermining democracy.

Posted by: scott at May 30, 2007 12:23 PM
Comment #221669

Oh, ok, you considered people “smart” when they (actually) voted for Gore and Kerry?!!! Well, all I have to say to that is: Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha!Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha!….. Ok, ok, I’m done…wait…Ha! Ha!Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha!… whew.

Some of you lefties just crack me the f*ck up; it’s a good thing you’re not taking seeriously, otherewise something like that wouldn’t be as funny as it (actually) was.

Posted by: rahdigly at May 30, 2007 12:26 PM
Comment #221671

Rahdigly - I notice that you don’t even attempt to refute the evidence. I take your silence on the facts to mean that you accept my hypothesis… thanks.

Posted by: Jon Rice at May 30, 2007 12:29 PM
Comment #221673

I am not quite sure what you are getting at here.

Are standards of living lower in red states as well? Are they less productive?

They may be less “educated” but that does not make them less intelligent.

Posted by: Zeek at May 30, 2007 1:04 PM
Comment #221674

Jon, I think the reason for the disparity is quite simple. On a local level, states that voted for Kerry spend much more money on their education systems. For example New Jersey spends twice as much as Utah (source). Also, certain Blue states have a very long history of support of education, one key example is Massachusetts where the first University in the United States was established as well as the first secondary school and the first public school system. Also I think that in some areas, the continued high levels education within the population is fostered by spending by the local governments that encourages HiTech businesses to locate there. It should not be a suprise that regions like Route 128 and Silicon Valley are located in Massacchusetts and California.

Zeek, you are correct, education does not equal intelligence, but a high level of education means that all of one’s intelligence is being utilized. Low levels of education result in people’s intelligence being squandered.

Posted by: Warren P at May 30, 2007 1:16 PM
Comment #221680

So intelligence can be measured on whether people voted for Bush or Kerry? Let’s face it, neither of those men were/are very well liked. Many voters actually said they voted for who they believed to be the lesser of two evils.

If the Bush/Kerry test is going to be our measure of intelligence, the political parties must be the least intelligent part of our society. After all, they nominated them.

The blue-state red-state thing is crap too. The ‘06 congressional election was a realigning election. I’m not saying the Democrats will take the White House in ‘08, but I guarantee the map will look different. If a candidate tries campaigning in only a few states Bush/Kerry style, he’s going to be in for a shock.

Posted by: TheTraveler at May 30, 2007 2:24 PM
Comment #221681

Jon:

I hate this blue state/red state distinction, which polarizes the citizenry. We have this distinction because Republicans love it - they love polarization and the shouting across the divide. That’s how they get votes.

Democrats should avoid this and concentrate on logic, not attacks and smears.

Talking about logic, your conclusions are not logical. You have determined that more people in one group graduate college than people in the other group. How does this indicate that the first group is more intelligent than the second group? Did you consider income, convenience, religion, desire, custom or many other factors?

Posted by: Paul Siegel at May 30, 2007 2:28 PM
Comment #221682

Jon,

“Seriously for a moment, do you think that this does, to some extent, explain why education suffers major cuts under Republican administrations?”

Is this premise true??? Do Republican administrations cut education budgets severely???
Or do you just make something up and pass it off as true?

Dept of Education Appropriations

1993 $32,462,458
2001 42,061,403

2002 $56,177,032
2007 67,382,629

Notice that there was a greater increase in Pres. Bush’s first year in office than in the previous 8 years by Pres. Clinton.

But don’t let these figures get in the way of your argument.

Posted by: wkw at May 30, 2007 2:37 PM
Comment #221683

Yes, Paul is right; you’ve taken one variable and run with it when, in fact, there are many variables to consider. Even so, the high school graduation rate is virtually the same, and the college graduation rate is only 5 percent higher for blue states. I’m not a statistician, but I do know that some sort of regression analysis has to be run before these figures have any meaning. And that means nailing down other significant variables. (My apologies for the mathematically inclined; I claim no expertise.)

Posted by: Gerrold at May 30, 2007 2:41 PM
Comment #221684

Just remember: I have seen republicans claim the colleges are staffed with liberals. That must be the reason.

Posted by: womanmarine at May 30, 2007 2:55 PM
Comment #221685

Warren, if we are still referring to institutionalized education, I believe you are wrong. In many cases the school systems teach narrower ways of viewing the world and discourage non-traditional thought processes. I am not saying our educational system is completely worthless, but it has major flaws. So major that I do not believe people that have a “higher education” are necessarily utilizing a greater percentage of their potential.

Though it is always good to learn, it is not always good to be taught.

Posted by: Zeek at May 30, 2007 3:36 PM
Comment #221687

womanmarine

You are absolutely right. I personally have no formal education beyond highschool. I can not even begin to imagine how many times I have heard from persons of my same education level or less that they are doing just fine without any formal teaching. And that they do not need all that college educated thinking power to succeed in this world. In other words they regard the more educated as some sort of alien liberal life form not rooted in everyday realities. To be honest that mentality is nothing more than a means to validate their lack of formal education. I have never given this a thought before this thread but I would have to say that most of those statements come from very hard core republicans of which my area mostly is. On the other hand I do live in a college town of which I would say that most of the college staff is liberal oriented. I do not put much stock in any of this. Mostly I think people and their political leanings in general are simply a product of their family upbringing.

Posted by: ILdem at May 30, 2007 3:52 PM
Comment #221688

Jon,

I believe after the last Presidential election a few other demographics were talked about including blue States earning more money per capita than red states and possibly leading towards the second demographic that red states received outlays from the federal government as a greater percentage than blue states.

In other words red state republicans who bemoan government do not mind more largesse than they deserve. In this way, the socially conservative red state republicans actually do not vote completely against their econmomic interests because liberal largesse favors the poor over the wealthy. How’s that for irony?

But more to your point, there has been a strong anti-intellectual strain to the Republican party for some time now. Bad science, assaulting schools for teaching evolution, bullying name calling such as “pointy-headed liberal” while Limbaugh’s minions reveled in calling themselves “ditto-heads” (I still can’t believe that one, it just makes me laugh).

Couple that with federal mandates such as “No Child Left Behind” and then refusing to fund it as promised (thus leaving lots of children behind) is just more bad education policy. I’d be interested in seeing what amount the educational funding increase wkw speaks of is due to that horrible bill. I for one would like the feds to stay out of education policy as they largely have for decades until this administration. Talk about big government. More irony!

Posted by: chris2x at May 30, 2007 3:57 PM
Comment #221689

WKW - ah, the old ‘making statistics lie for your own argument’ argument. Well, let’s have a look at the REAL figures, not the conveniently inaccurate ones you suggest.

You see, Dept of Ed appropriations are what Congress approves. They’re NOT what the President asks for.

So, if we look at the last three years plus 2008…

2005 President’s Request: 72,240,069
2006 President’s Request: 69,433,078
2007 President’s Request: 64,518,953
2008 President’s Request: 62,609,499

Yeah, I can definitely see a trend there, WKW.

Posted by: Jon Rice at May 30, 2007 4:02 PM
Comment #221690

Lol, WKW - even Fox News, that bastion of truth and fairness, ran a story last year on Bush’s proposed education cuts, mentioning that the increases at the beginning of his tenure were because of broad bipartisan support for increasing education funding. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,184005,00.html

Posted by: Jon Rice at May 30, 2007 4:10 PM
Comment #221694

I’ll take a stab at the question. The majority of the red states contain the most people without h.s. educations, people who are on gov. assistance, and people who just don’t give a damn about anything. This in turn leads the people of that state to vote conservative.

Posted by: Andy at May 30, 2007 4:53 PM
Comment #221697
a high level of education means that all of one’s intelligence is being utilized.

I would have to argue that this statement doesn’t exactly follow cause and result.

Just because you have level of education, as measured by some yardstick most likely level of years in college, degrees, etc, in NO way proves that someone is using their intelligence at all.

Most people get by and get degrees in college without ever using their ‘intelligence’, but rather are able to simply reply back what they were told on a test. Education and Intelligence are not the same thing. Some people who are ‘educated’ are unable to function in real life while some who are uneducated are able to take advantage of opportunities or create their own in order to invent, design, create or lead.

Perhaps it is the constant left view that education = intelligence without examining the missing aspect of critical thought and thinking outside of the box that has them in their confined way of examining our current social issues. Meanwhile, the lack of critical thought on the other side explains much of the continued insistence on treating people a certain way or being willing to deny people basic human rights simply because they think an invisible man sitting in the sky has told them to do so.

In fact, the continued support the the FEDERAL department of education, which has presided over this horrible decline of education in this country starting with the day it was put into place and continuing to today, makes me believe that critical thought is INDEED lacking on both sides of the aisle.

Posted by: Rhinehold at May 30, 2007 5:04 PM
Comment #221700

I’ve seen a lot of highly educated people but a lot of them lack one thing and that is COMMON SENCE.

Posted by: KAP at May 30, 2007 5:23 PM
Comment #221703

Rhinehold - I fully agree that an education doesn’t necessarily mean you’re able to function in the real world… or vice versa. I can think of several examples myself.

For instance - didn’t George Bush attend Harvard? Or by using this example, am I misunderestimating his intelligence? (After all, I’m sure he earns enough to put food on the children of his nukular family.)

Posted by: Jon Rice at May 30, 2007 5:33 PM
Comment #221704

I think I misstated my opinion. What I meant was that education is necessary for a person to realize the full potential of their innate intelligence. For example, imagine if someone took Einstein or one of the other great minds of humankind and left him on an isolated island while he was still an infant. Even if one provided this person with a continuous supply of food and other necessities, this person would not magically come up with any of the brilliant ideas they would have done if they had been educated as was done during their actual lives.

I guess Zeek is correct by stating that I am referring to more than institutional education when I refer to education. Nevertheless, institutional education plays a critical component of one’s overall education; other parts are played by one’s family, the society surrounding oneself and other things.

My overall point is that education is the key to revealing one’s intelligence. Not that education=intelligence or any similar conclusions.

Posted by: Warren P at May 30, 2007 5:39 PM
Comment #221712

Jon:

Seriously for a moment, do you think that this does, to some extent, explain why education suffers major cuts under Republican administrations? Are the Republicans afraid of a more educated populace?

I think it means that there are more jobs requiring a degree in urban areas than in rural areas.

If you look at the 2004 presidential race county by county you can see that blue counties are mostly urban, red mostly suburban/rural.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/vote2004/countymap.htm

Craig

Posted by: Craig Holmes at May 30, 2007 6:34 PM
Comment #221713

And you wonder why the right wing Repubs call us elitists…

Yay!!! We are so smart and educated, no better way to persuade people into being Dems by showing contempt for their supposed “lack” of intellectual prowess; it’ll make them feel GREAT!

Pride goeth before the fall my friends…

Posted by: greenstuff at May 30, 2007 6:40 PM
Comment #221714

More education does not mean smarter. I know a couple PhD’s that aint got the sense to get in out of a thunderstorm. How smart is that? And they both vote Democrat. :)
Two of the smartest people I ever knew never got past the 8th grade. Yet both were able to read, write, do math, knew history, and had just plain old common sense. One could add, subtract, multiply, and divide any list of numbers you read him in his head and come up with the correct answer every time.
More importantly, they successfully raised 8 of their 9 youngins, were productive members of the community, and had the respect and trust of the folks they knew. That’s more smarts than any education can ever give.
And they both were born in, grew up in, and lived their whole lives in a ‘red’ state.
The thing is that both have been dead for 30 years now and are still getting smarter.

Posted by: Ron Brown at May 30, 2007 6:44 PM
Comment #221719

Jon,
I went searching for some other data to back you up or revoke yours. You however have managed to find the only data, I think. I can’t find yours either or much else either.

I did however find the following information which might be of interest to all of those involved in discussion.
It sort of backs you up.

http://uspolitics.about.com/library/bl_education_vote.htm

Posted by: Linda H. at May 30, 2007 7:41 PM
Comment #221726

Warren said,

My overall point is that education is the key to revealing one’s intelligence. Not that education=intelligence or any similar conclusions.

Well put. I understood what you meant. Of course, the reaction on the right predictably does little to no defending of education.

Posted by: chris2x at May 30, 2007 8:17 PM
Comment #221730

Warren, I was just pointing out that people can easily confuse what you mean by “education” as it is a slightly ambiguous term.

Posted by: Zeek at May 30, 2007 8:52 PM
Comment #221736

Jon,

“I notice that you don’t even attempt to refute the evidence. I take your silence on the facts to mean that you accept my hypothesis…thanks.”

I think it was obvious what I thought about your “hypothesis”. It (truly) was too funny to even refute at the time. The fact is that I don’t believe in your notion of “education”; meaning, there’s a difference today between “information” and “education”. We are in the information age; however, it is not the same as being informed and educated. I (truly) believe the more “informed” the audience is the better educated they are. Therefore, I do not believe the left (blue staters) are more “informed” than the right (red staters).

Look at the left; they can’t get their message across in the arena of ideas; so they go to the schools, judges, and “slander” category. Look at the Universities with all the (far) left professors that teach their anti-Bush/War/America rhetoric to the young students. Then, when they get caught, by a student that brings a tape recorder to the lecture, they clam up and hide behind their tenure or teachers union or the 1rst Admendment. Look at the lefties on campus; banning military recruiters and interrupting conservative speakers via riots or by throwing pies! The activist judges, the ones turning a blind eye to these rapist and criminals; they are not conservative judges.

Finally, the libs are the ones that are pushing this “fairness” doctrine, not the righties. Look at how well that fairness doctrine is doing in Venezuela with that fat “socialist” pig Chavez; it’s utterly ridiculous. And, look how pathetic the libs are at talk radio; they can’t get their (hateful) message across to the public b/c it is harder to “trick” or “mislead” an informed audience like the talk radio audience. Talk radio is informing; they debunk the MSM “journalist” and newscasts on a daily basis; at the same time, allowing other viewpoints to be voiced on that subject.

So, that’s why I laughed (so hard) at your “hypothesis”; reality and the cold, hard facts prevented me from taking your comment seriously (at first). Ha! (oop) :0)

Posted by: rahdigly at May 30, 2007 9:59 PM
Comment #221743

“Limbaugh spoke at the Manchester School of Technology, which trains high school students for careers in the construction, automotive, graphic arts and other industries. The school highlighted one of the nine goals he outlined: increasing support for alternative schools and community colleges.

“We have sent a message to our young people that if you don’t go to college … that you’re thought less of in America. We have to stop this,” he said.
Associated Press

OOPS! Sorry, I got that quote wrong. It was supposed to read:

“Clinton spoke at the Manchester School of Technology, which trains high school students for careers in the construction, automotive, graphic arts and other industries. The school highlighted one of the nine goals she outlined: increasing support for alternative schools and community colleges.

“We have sent a message to our young people that if you don’t go to college … that you’re thought less of in America. We have to stop this,” she said.
Associated Press

Gee, Jon! It looks like your little Democratic darlin’ is chastisin’ you a bit!

JD

Posted by: JD at May 30, 2007 10:43 PM
Comment #221746

rah, that’s either clever parody or … I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt.

Posted by: Gerrold at May 30, 2007 11:13 PM
Comment #221747

JD,

Huh??? Clinton tells young people that they can be educated and trained without having to pay out enormous tuitions and fees, and somehow she’s turned Republican? Please explain…

Posted by: Marysdude at May 30, 2007 11:22 PM
Comment #221748

So lets take away the voting rights of those ignorant red state people. Consolidate control in the hands of those “intelligent” blue state people where it belongs. After all if they are better educated and by inference have better views and ideas why shouldnt the blue voters be in control. Democracy shamocracy, its survival of the fittest and that means the cream rises to the top and those most fit (educated) to rule should rule.
If this is not what you meant you could have fooled me.

Posted by: carnak at May 30, 2007 11:59 PM
Comment #221756

rahdigly,

We are in the information age; however, it is not the same as being informed and educated. I (truly) believe the more “informed” the audience is the better educated they are.

Yeah right. Keep confusing opinions with facts, belief with science, claims with truth, information with knowledge and knowledge with understanding it.

[anti-left rant and conspiracy theories cutted]

Finally, the libs are the ones that are pushing this “fairness” doctrine, not the righties.

I didn’t know honesty in claim was a left value only. I’m disapointed.

Posted by: Philippe Houdoin at May 31, 2007 4:58 AM
Comment #221758

I’m sorry to say this, but the only thing your calculations can possibly prove beyond doubt is; no matter how smart you think you are… no matter how much someone’s told you what a great education you’ve got, you still believed that you had a choice in 2004 (if you voted).

The ‘Bad Mommy, Bad Daddy’ system of governance doesn’t work in the home either, and it’s finally beginning to stink badly enough that people are wondering “did somebody just crap on my head?”.

No, the dominance of the two-tone party is beginning to collapse. Maybe in this election, or the next, or the one after that, but soon, our politicians will eventually grow balls big enough to stand up to the status quo, and drop the letter from their name.

Just look at it for what it is: timeshares in tyranny. A professional wrestling bout. A mockery of choice altogether.

Posted by: wtc7 at May 31, 2007 6:28 AM
Comment #221759

I often speak in catch phrases, since that’s what works in this society - instant wisdom… pre-cooked wit. Something that can be snapped into a sig, or quickly blurted before the commercial break. But I’d like to expand a little on the folly of the two-tone party government.

Both colors believe that one day, they will have total control of the government, and then we’ll finally find utopia, and all those who opposed it will see the errors of their ways and join in the rejoicing for the success of the “democracy”. BOTH colors always tell you how they don’t, didn’t, and couldn’t get enough votes to “do the peoples work”. The other color is always hindering our Utopia, no matter which color we choose.

I remember hearing Randy Rhodes, a so-called liberal radio talk show host, tell one of her callers, who was talking about supporting a third party, that “they don’t have a chance, face it! Just pick a side play the game”. That confirmed, for me, my belief that the mass media conglomerates serve to protect the two-tone party. They like that we think of politics as a cute little family feud.

The whole point is; there is no choice, no matter if everyone picks the same color, or none at all. The ruling class has been playing this game for a long time.

Posted by: wtc7 at May 31, 2007 7:04 AM
Comment #221760

jon et al

The use of blue and red to extrapolate to other characteristics shows a lack of education or at least that you have not learned much from any statistics course you took AND you really do not understand the nature of voting or your country. You are counting the wrong thing.

Blue/red is an interesting construct. It is important because of the way the electoral vote goes. But remember that people vote and when their state is a majority blue or red, it does not mean they voted that way.

Take California. Dems won the major cities. Republicans take the affluent suburbs and the country. Is Watts better educated than Orange County?. More Californian voted for Bush in California than the total population of heavily Dem Vermont. You could find similar patterns in Texas going the other way.

Lots of studies have demonstrated the demographics of the parties. The Dem party is bimodal. It is strong among the least educated and the very well educated. In other words, the uneducated welfare recipient votes Dem and so does the professor at Harvard. The Republicans are stronger in the middle. People with some college and college graduates vote Republican. It is also true that voting Republican tends to rise with income also until the very top (rich entertainers and George Soros types). Income tends to follow intelligence over a person’s lifetime.

To exaggerate, extrapolate and be uncharitable, and I will be in the sprit of this pose, Republicans tend to be stronger among those who really work. Dems get the lazy poor and out of touch academics, those that depend on the efforts of others to produce the things they need and use.

Posted by: Jack at May 31, 2007 7:44 AM
Comment #221764

I love this supposed epidemic of college professors using their classrooms as podiums for their political beliefs. Umm, sorry folks, never seen that happen, and I went to a frickin’ LIBERAL ARTS COLLEGE! We’re talking about a place where you can take T’ai Chi as an elective and 1/4 of the student body is of an “alternative sexual orientation”. I cannot remember one single time politics even came up in the classroom, let alone having a teacher try to brainwash me into becoming a liberal. I think it’s another example of the Right grasping at straws.

L

Posted by: leatherankh at May 31, 2007 9:31 AM
Comment #221765

Jack said:

To exaggerate, extrapolate and be uncharitable, and I will be in the sprit of this pose, Republicans tend to be stronger among those who really work. Dems get the lazy poor and out of touch academics, those that depend on the efforts of others to produce the things they need and use.

Well said, “and I will be in the spirit of this post”. I agree that the “spirit” of this post seems to be to jab. It doesn’t seem very productive for the blue side to jab those from whom they need cooperation to move legislative agendas forward. My experience has been that when you insinuate someone is stupid for not agreeing with your political viewpoint, you effectively shut out dialog and possible cooperation/compromise.

Mike in Tampa

Posted by: Mike in Tampa at May 31, 2007 9:51 AM
Comment #221766

I dont know guys, I would think that those in any state that vote either democrat or republican (with what the parties are putting forth as candidates lately) may want to take a minute clear their minds and then ask themselves Why?

Posted by: j2t2 at May 31, 2007 10:24 AM
Comment #221768

I said: “Ok, Im being deliberately provocative and I fully recognize that the country has many, many smart Republicans. But the figures don’t lie - voters in blue states (2004 Presidential election) are on the whole smarter than voters in red states. So I pose the question at the end of this analysis: why?”

Perhaps my question should not have claimed that Dems are ‘smarter’ than voters in red states. It should instead have postulated, as has been suggested in these comments, that blue states are more adept at uncovering their citizens’ intelligence through better education. And perhaps that, in itself, is the answer to my question.

Regarding blue-state red-state delineation. Whether you like it or not, the majority of states are firmly in one camp or the other. Yes, there are some purple states - but Utah is never going to be a Democratic stronghold, and Massachussetts will never be a Republican one. The lines are valid, on the whole.

I’d just like to remind everyone that this post asked a question - I suggested one possible answer, but I was open to listening to new ones. Indeed, I welcomed them.

Criticizing me for being uncharitable is fair - I did indeed take a couple of pokes at our Republican cousins. However, almost nobody has suggested an alternative - one or two people have mentioned the preponderance of educational facilities in blue states, but other than that, only WKW has really argued with my figures.

Jon

Posted by: Jon Rice at May 31, 2007 10:43 AM
Comment #221769

More telling are some of the other points that those who voted for Bush reveal
Majority that don’t believe in Evolution
Majority who believed that Iraq had something to do with 9/11
Majority who are against Gay rights

These attitudes and beliefs do not require any measurement of education level, but does reveal an intellectual vacuum regardless of education obtained.

While the education system might be considered “liberal” — could there be some correlation that the more effort one spends in intellectual reseach and discovery, the more progressive (aka liberal?) one becomes?
I know that in my youth I was quite conservative (grew up that way — and was rabidly so — a real Barry Goldwater conservative) — but as I grew, obtained education (both formal and of the school of hard knocks variety) I became a bit more understanding, compassionate and less judgemental of those who were different from me.
Lack of formal education, while maybe not necessary to become financially successful (lots of businesses started by high school grads, etc) it does help someone to better educate themselves.
It does open up the doors to diverse thought and experiences.
Many of the successful (financially) people who I met that do not have higher education are still very limited in their view of the world.
They hold many misinformed ideas about other cultures and people. The have also had little knowledge outside of their own regional issues and information/history — they just didn’t have any interest in looking or obtaining that knowledge — and I believe it was because they were never exposed to the possiblity enherent in engaging in discussions with people with diverse viewpoints.
When you are limited to coffe-shop discussions with your own home-town people, and they are all reinforcing each others ignorance — it is a bit tough to obtain a realistic view of the world outside the city limits.

I think that while looking at education levels might be a bit limiting in this debate, perhaps it would be more telling to look at the beliefs and attitudes held vs the political viewpoints

Posted by: Russ at May 31, 2007 11:03 AM
Comment #221771

For one thing in Iowa for instance who had the highest literacy rate in the nation at one time educates their kids and they have to move. They move out of the rural zones into areas where the jobs are. During the high tech period that was out west. Many people went south to find jobs in graphics arts, as engineers, doctors etc. Houston for instance has many majory hospitals that are world class. A great place for a doctor or nurse.

Posted by: Edith Dodds at May 31, 2007 11:32 AM
Comment #221774

Jon,
After having looked hard and long for evidence to back you or refute you, I did realize something rather interesting.

The population information included in the Census Report data also includes a break down for education in racial groups, White, Black, Hispanics, and Asians, as well as break downs for gender, cultural, and social economic variables.

I wonder what we would find if one ex-stipulated this information in to the Red\Blue state voting areas.

I don’t have time to do this, but it might prove interesting to check it out.

Just a thought. Below are some of the sites I located for this purpose.

http://www.census.gov/prod/2004pubs/p20-550.pdf


http://www.allcountries.org/uscensus/253_educational_attainment_by_state.html


http://www.census.gov/prod/2003pubs/c2kbr-24.pdf

http://www.childtrendsdatabank.org/indicators/1HighSchoolDropout.cfm

http://www.childtrendsdatabank.org/index.cfm

http://www.questia.com/googleScholar.qst?docId=5002568204

Posted by: Linda H. at May 31, 2007 12:12 PM
Comment #221783

The main difference between the red and blue states is historic patterns of land ownership, and different origins of the immigrant population, from countries with poor educational systems.

Until fairly recently, well educated individuals who sought high political office in some states, pretended that they were less educated than they actually were, even though their state had excellent higher education systems, for a small segment of the population.

In our country at large, there is a prejudice against people who are too smart, too educated, or have non-traditional employment or lifestyles. This attitude is probably more prominent in the red states than in the blue states. There is a contrary prejudice among students against classmates that are older in a grade with younger children.

Many of the examples given above are comparing ipods and oranges. UT vs NJ would seem to be a wash to me. Everything probably costs more in NJ than UT.

I grew up in a blue state, IL, which had a strong emphasis on education, and lived many years in FL, where I mostly had contact with well-educated people. In a suburban/rural community where I lived, people my age had attended one of 3 segregated high schools that were later combined into one larger school, but few minority students actually attended the combined high school.

In Chicago, a recent crime that shocked many people was perpetrated in part by a 15 year old who was supposed to be in a program at a local high school for overage teens who had never actually qualified for high school.

Back in the Clinton administration, a DoE official made a surprise visit to a large high school in Chicago and found that the school was mostly empty, with only about a fourth to a third of the inflated enrollment actually attending classes.

There are about 80,000 serious juvenile criminal offenders in the county.

That is why No Child Left Behind makes a good slogan, but actually doing something about it takes more than talk.

Posted by: ohrealy at May 31, 2007 1:23 PM
Comment #221787
but actually doing something about it takes more than talk

And you force education onto someone who doesn’t want it how?

The only way to help people is to motivate them to want to do it themselves. It takes a different mindset, not more money being thrown at it.

What is your suggestion?

Posted by: Rhinehold at May 31, 2007 2:29 PM
Comment #221790

Jon-

Wouldn’t the polling data be a better indicator by taking the State factor out of it? After all the State matters only in who wins or looses and not who votes.

CNN 2004 Presidential

Bush and Kerry split the college educated crowd and Bush won the some college or no college vote. In the end I don’t think there is much you can read into the vote by education in 2004; only 4% of voters rated it as the most important issue.

Posted by: George in SC at May 31, 2007 2:55 PM
Comment #221804

Jack,

In the spirit? Then I must take personal offence. I work damn hard and am rather liberal. I just have a different intellectual bent based on the education I’ve received in and especialy out of the classroom (You can very well say the exact thing). Hard working Republicans and lazy Democrats is just another stereotype with no basis in fact. You’d find few corporate managers (let’s say Republican) who work as hard as a union brick layer (let’s say Democrat). Capital and entrepeneurs versus laborers might be a better political distinction. Even income level does not explain why the social conservatives vote against their pocketbook so often.

Still, as important common sense is, it continues to be elevated above intellect and education along mythic proportions. The obtuse, myopic, and stubborn too often get elevated to common sense status among both parties but especially the anti-intellectual Republican one.

Also, as long as we are delving into stereotypes, how many lazy welfare recipients do you think actually bother to vote?

Posted by: chris2x at May 31, 2007 5:16 PM
Comment #221806

““That school didn’t learn me nothin.”
anonymous from Kentuky”

Andre M. Hernandez,

Hoo R U 2 speek?

U spelt awl wurds bad.

Shood be: “skool lernt me nuthin”!

Durn libbys!

Posted by: KansasDem at May 31, 2007 5:37 PM
Comment #221823

“While the education system might be considered “liberal” — could there be some correlation that the more effort one spends in intellectual reseach and discovery, the more progressive (aka liberal?) one becomes?
I know that in my youth I was quite conservative (grew up that way — and was rabidly so — a real Barry Goldwater conservative) — but as I grew, obtained education (both formal and of the school of hard knocks variety) I became a bit more understanding, compassionate and less judgemental of those who were different from me.”
Posted by: Russ at May 31, 2007 11:03 AM


You seem to be living life backwards, Russ. I find that I was much more liberal as an absurdly brain-numb kid believing the E.R.A. pushing English teachers of my youth, and the radical animal rights and environmental crowd of my Science teachers.

Then I realized that dolphins are not as smart as humans, and E.R.A. was just another hobby of the radical feminist left.

When I became aware of the real agendas behind some of these groups I grew more and more conservative with age. I also began seeing how they spoke of tolerance and acceptance, yet trashed anyone who did not have the same views, calling them dumb, uneducated, and religiously superstitious. It didn’t take me long to “wise up”. There is a difference between wisdom and knowledge.

JD

Posted by: JD at May 31, 2007 8:06 PM
Comment #221826

Jon,

I believe Russ nailed the real problem in his post #221769. It’s much more a matter of ideology than it is education.

One simply must ignore history and science to stay in sync with todays Republican party. I think Arianna Huffington had it about right when she referred to the current bunch of Republican presidential candidates as “Neanderthals”.

You need look no further than the recent opening of the new conservative, fundamental Christian museum that places man among the dinosaurs. No lack of education there, just a strong ideological belief that the freakin’ world is flat, and the sun revolves around the Earth!

Oh, and Monica Goodling can’t possibly be called uneducated. Just follow the red dots………….all the way to dominion. Of course it becomes more clear all the time. Iraq will be another South Korea????????????

Putin has love in his heart!!!!!!!!!!!And, golly gosh gee whizz, if everything goes to hell, at least W. was on god’s side. Armageddon was inevitable anyway so He was doing god’s will.

Posted by: KansasDem at May 31, 2007 9:14 PM
Comment #221839

The problem with this post is that it panders to the same kind of polemics that it claims is a problem in politics.

Republicans offered men like William F. Buckley in years past. I learned a great deal from watching Firing Line. The plethora of think tanks that Republicans offer adds greatly to the political debate depth. Finally, there is Ron Paul, who is ignoring the usual polemics and challenging all candidates to discuss real issues that effect us all rather than Gay Marriage or Flag Burning.

Why not discuss these issues rather than pander to calling your audience dumb?

Posted by: barneygoogle at May 31, 2007 10:38 PM
Comment #221840

Chris x

This whole post deals with silly stereotypes. This whole blue/red thing is just annoying. It is significant in terms of electoral votes. Otherwise it is meaningless. I am sorry you are personally offended. You should not be any more than I should be personally offended by the title that education is not a Republican thing.

BTW – I do not think many “career” welfare recipients vote unless someone gives them a bottle of wine or cigarettes and tell them the name of the Dem to vote for. Fortunately they usually get lost on the way to the polls or distracted by shinny objects.

Posted by: Jack at May 31, 2007 10:42 PM
Comment #221849

No, are you daring to suggest that someone who, say, thinks Saddam Hussein was behind 9/11, or that Rush is a genius (and scientists are dumb), might, in fact, not be thinking straight? That just might be a little too true to be considered fair and balanced!

Posted by: TAK at June 1, 2007 12:45 AM
Comment #222563

Although these numbers are interesting…it doesn’t say anything about those that actually voted. For example, California voted something like 45% Republican and 55% Democratic. Only 35% of California’s population is college educated. Sooo…it could be that all the college educated people voted Republican and only “uneducated” people voted Democratic. What you really need to do is look at the education level of the actual voters. This is interesting too because if you look at D.C., for example,it has 45% of population with a college eduation and it voted 90% for Dems. We know that nationally college educated people vote at about twice the rate of non college educated people…So we know that most of the uneducated people in D.C. voted Dem.

Conclusion…That chart is explains nothing.

Posted by: Anon at June 7, 2007 5:13 PM
Comment #229179

K. M. (Ohio but proudly serving in Iraq now), B.S., M.S.T., M.S., M.ed

I’m a Republican and proud of it.

Posted by: K.M. at August 13, 2007 3:00 AM
Comment #236131

Let’s look at the issues supported by liberals. Abortion on demand, euthanasia, Gay marriage, Sex Ed for three and four year olds with fairytale about a man marrying the prince. This indicates a split down the middle on ethical issues. Of course kids are taught in liberal schools. Another thing is in agricultural states whose children move to where better jobs are lower the states IQ average. Iowa lost many geniuses to states like Texas during the dotcom boom.

Posted by: Eden Carroll-Weiss at October 15, 2007 11:20 AM
Comment #244828

http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/tables/08s0386.pdf

You should research more before jumping to conclusions. That is what an educated democrat should do anyway. I find it common among democrats to reach for such cheap shots as your blog mentions. The truth however speaks more loudly.

An Educated Republican

Posted by: You are wrong at February 7, 2008 5:41 PM
Comment #266218

Hmmm… well I have always been in the top 5% levels of any type of educational facility from which I gained book knowledge. I am far from dumb and I prefer to choose after deep research and looking at all the angles. I also gained knowledge from the teachers/trainers and their opinions. Our educational system has been on a consistent thrust to invoke socialistic thought through the classroom. In some cases, I went head to head with teachers that did not want free thinking, only word by word memorizations to the problems of our terrible “capitalistic government”. That in my view is the “brain-washing” of America to believe they are smarter than those who do not agree with them. To block out all ideas that challenge their thought processes and call them dumb, stupid, ignorant, afraid, in the middle ages, etc. It also turns the masses of “educated” into lambs of one thought process without questions to the lies that are blatantly in front of them by anyone who claims to be one of them. While the street smart individuals have had no “conditioning”, they still question tactics, and seek better answers to life’s freedom than shrieking prejudice, homo-phobia, religious zealout, and ignorance that is not worth listening to about those who do not agree. My experience with many (not stating all) Dems is their diligently focus on their party no matter what. You question the Leave no child behind program and yet I see no mention of the lack of improvement in the Chicago School District CAC program that gave over $110 million to the group that Obama was working as a leader for the years before he went on the campaign trail. There are a few questions here. Why couldn’t that much money make a difference on the portion of the Chicago schools that were affected by it? Why are the only films circulating from schools from that area indicating the show of a “militant” type support of Obama as their “savior”? If the students in that program showed no difference from those in the same city that did not benefit, then how is he helping them? If he made no change there, how can he prove he will make change in the US government?
Who is he having push his prolific number of “smoke” bills through to completion? Does he really intend to make them a reality? Or, is he taking advantage of the “educated” trained to believe their “smoke” and not see the whole picture of what is ahead if someone who believes himself to be a kind and offers a new logo for a powerful nation … I may not like either candidate,however, I appreciate the little freedom I do have… I do know what I am voting against and it isn’t democracy.

Posted by: tobea Truthseeker at October 8, 2008 5:49 PM
Comment #266220

Hmmm… well I have always been in the top 5% levels of any type of educational facility from which I gained book knowledge. I am far from dumb and I prefer to choose after deep research and looking at all the angles. I also gained knowledge from the teachers/trainers and their opinions. Our educational system has been on a consistent thrust to invoke socialistic thought through the classroom. In some cases, I went head to head with teachers that did not want free thinking, only word by word memorizations to the problems of our terrible “capitalistic government”. That in my view is the “brain-washing” of America to believe they are smarter than those who do not agree with them. To block out all ideas that challenge their thought processes and call them dumb, stupid, ignorant, afraid, in the middle ages, etc. It also turns the masses of “educated” into lambs of one thought process without questions to the lies that are blatantly in front of them by anyone who claims to be one of them. While the street smart individuals have had no “conditioning”, they still question tactics, and seek better answers to life’s freedom than shrieking prejudice, homo-phobia, religious zealout, and ignorance that is not worth listening to about those who do not agree. My experience with many (not stating all) Dems is their diligently focus on their party no matter what. You question the Leave no child behind program and yet I see no mention of the lack of improvement in the Chicago School District CAC program that gave over $110 million to the group that Obama was working as a leader for the years before he went on the campaign trail. There are a few questions here. Why couldn’t that much money make a difference on the portion of the Chicago schools that were affected by it? Why are the only films circulating from schools from that area indicating the show of a “militant” type support of Obama as their “savior”? If the students in that program showed no difference from those in the same city that did not benefit, then how is he helping them? If he made no change there, how can he prove he will make change in the US government?
Who is he having push his prolific number of “smoke” bills through to completion? Does he really intend to make them a reality? Or, is he taking advantage of the “educated” trained to believe their “smoke” and not see the whole picture of what is ahead if someone who believes himself to be a kind and offers a new logo for a powerful nation … I may not like either candidate,however, I appreciate the little freedom I do have… I do know what I am voting against and it isn’t democracy.

Posted by: tobea Truthseeker at October 8, 2008 5:50 PM
Comment #266222

sorry for the double post, my connection to the internet dropped and it said the connection was not completed… I also notice a typo in the last sentence .. not kind, it is meant to be king as in ruler of the people…

Also I see several references in here that uneducated welfare trailer residents, etc are the ones voting for the Republicans. Yet, they say the same people are voting on Obama’s ticket, which is it?

Posted by: Tobea Truthseeker at October 8, 2008 5:58 PM
Comment #269566

What if you say ability to earn or household income is actually the measure of “smart”

Certainly no better than the ridiculous college graduation stat, but interesting numbers none the less.

http://www.newgeography.com/content/00246-2004-presidential-vote-household-income

Posted by: tt852 at November 5, 2008 1:46 PM
Comment #269669

I usually say it this way. Voting Republican does not make or prove someone to be unintelligent. But being unintelligent often makes someone vote Republican. It’s the way conservatives try to win an election. “That other guy’s gonna raise your taxes!!!” Oh no!!! That’s obviously the worst thing in the world. Bush didn’t raise my taxes, but my cost of living went way the hell up during his tenure. Taxes do exist for a reason, and while I never want mine to go up, treating “he’ll raise your taxes,” as such an absolute evil is a way to pander to lowest common denominator thinking.

It’s just like “He knew Bill Ayers, who was a radical that bombed government buildings!!!” Again, sounds awful, why would we want someone like that? Obviously he condones bombing buildings.

W., Quayle, Palin. Do you think the Republican party didn’t know that all three would come off as unintelligent? Of course they knew that. They knew there’s a huge contingent of people out there who will be put off by “all those liberal smarties.” Who would you rather have a beer with, Bush or Kerry? I’d rather have a beer with my friend Chris, and I don’t want that dude running the country!!!

Posted by: Greg McGill at November 6, 2008 9:20 AM
Comment #303056

J.C. Grant proved that the exact opposite is true. The redder the area, the more educated. The bluer the area, the less educated. And, it’s not even close. You should have done it by congressional district to get a more accurate picture. The least educated areas in red states are blue. And, the most educated areas in many blue states are red. http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/2750401/presidential_politics_more_educated.html?cat=47

Posted by: Rex at July 4, 2010 12:09 PM
Comment #312454

Karl Marx said it was easier to rule stupid people…

Ever wonder why the cost of a college loan doubled under the Bush administration, or why No Child Left Behind was never funded?

Posted by: Nick at November 5, 2010 12:04 PM
Comment #312455

Response to Rex and his research, The Pew Research Center tells a much different story on education. The most highly educated group, including graduate degrees is by far the Liberal Democrats:

http://people-press.org/report/?pageid=945



You will notice that they have more education as a whole than any other group, and double the number of graduate degrees of the next closest group.

Posted by: Nick at November 5, 2010 12:11 PM
Comment #337294

I think one of the things you see with a higher level of education is a greater willingness to research things that people tell us.

People will be more willing to believe what they are told by other persons we think are “trustworthy sources”. One reason I think media which uses circus act attraction tends to play better in areas where education levels are suffering.

Fact checking and research does not require intelligence but it does take a person who has been taught how to do it.

Posted by: Steve at February 27, 2012 5:40 PM
Comment #337295

Comment to Nick, Yes this material agrees with what you said. I think you may have miss-spoken {typed}.

Posted by: Steve at February 27, 2012 5:45 PM
Comment #378349

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Comment #378350

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علاج التخسيس
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أفضل عمليات التخسيس
تدبيس المعدة
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عملية بالون المعدة فى مصر
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كى العصب السيمبثاوى بالمنظار
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كى العصب السيمبثاوى بالمنظار
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عيادات تخسيس
علاج السمنه

Posted by: marwa safwat at May 14, 2014 7:14 AM
Comment #378352

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Posted by: marwa safwat at May 14, 2014 7:17 AM
Comment #378353

شركة تنظيف خزانات بالطائف
شركة مكافحة حشرات بالطائف
شركة تنظيف المنازل بالطائف
شركة تنظيف بالطائف
شركة تنظيف شقق بالطائف
شركة نقل عفش بالطائف
شركة كشف تسرب المياه بمكة
شركة عزل اسطح بمكة
شركة رش مبيدات بمكة
نقل عفش مكة
شركة مكافحة حشرات بمكة
شركة تنظيف مجالس بمكة
شركة تنظيف موكيت بمكة

شركة رش مبيدات بالرياض
كشف تسربات
شركة نقل اثاث بالرياض
شركة تنظيف خزانات بالرياض
شركة تنظيف فلل بالرياض
شركة تنظيف بالرياض
شركة تنظيف بالرياض
شركة تنظيف بالمدينة المنورة
شركة تنظيف بيارات بالمدينة المنورة
غسيل خزانات بالمدينة المنورة
نقل عفش بالمدينة المنورة
شركة تخزين عفش بالمدينة المنورة
مكافحة حشرات بالمدينة المنورة
شركة رش مبيدات بالمدينة المنورة
جراحات المنظار للسمنة المفرطة
جراحات المنظار للسمنة المفرطة
خدمات منزلية بمدينة الدمام
موقع فرسان الدمام للخدمات المنزلية
موقع امجاد المدينة للخدمات المنزلية بالمدينة المنورة
موقع فرسان المدينة للخدمات المنزلية بالمدينة المنور
موقع رحاب المدينة للخدمات المنزلية بالمدينة المنور
موقع امجاد جدة للخدمات المنزلية بجدة
موقع امجاد جدة للخدمات المنزلية بجدة
شركة تنظيف فلل بمكة
شركة تنظيف منازل بمكة
شركة تنظيف خزانات بمكة
شركة تنظيف بمكة
نقل عفش بجدة
اسعار ايجار السيارات فى مصر
رقم تليفون ليموزين المطار
ايجار سيارات ليموزين مصر
همر ليموزين
شركات الليموزين فى مصر
ايجار سيارات القاهرة

Posted by: marwa safwat at May 14, 2014 7:21 AM
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