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Brits Confessed To Everything Just Like Khalid Sheik Mohamed

A sorry spectacle, those Brit hostages confessing to spying on Iran, then when released taking it back. AP is reporting today that isolation, pressure and sensory deprivation contributed to the confessions they made prior to their release [*]

Too bad they weren't made of sterner stuff. Why, even Khalid Sheik Mohammed withstood four years of torture and sensory deprivation before he confessed to everything under the sun.

All joking aside, can anyone really believe that torture and sensory deprivation are really useful after this sorry demonstration?

Time to stop. Now.

Posted by Rob Mann at April 6, 2007 11:19 AM
Comments
Comment #215343

I’ve heard nothing to suggest that the British hostages were tortured, or from the sounds of it, even physically abused. Of course, their abduction in Iraqi waters was “abusive,” as was their being put on television, but that doesn’t really relate to “torture” per se.

I don’t know where you’re getting this claim that they suffered “sensory deprivation,” unless you’re trying to give a heavy-sounding name to being blindfolded.

Posted by: Loyal Opposition at April 6, 2007 12:04 PM
Comment #215345


Yeah mann…
Why can’t we all just play nice…

NOBODY really wants to hurt ANYBODY…

Posted by: cliff at April 6, 2007 12:56 PM
Comment #215346

well, I guess the point is if they give it up just under “pressure” and in isolation, what would they have done under actual torture like KSM?

Posted by: Waldo at April 6, 2007 1:03 PM
Comment #215347

LO….check this out. Guess it’s a judgement call, and we all have opinions on when, or if to cave in. What does seem obvious is that our military positions regarding captives differs quite clearly. They are alive, safe and home though, and that is a good thing.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070406/ts_nm/iran_britain_dc_74

Posted by: Sandra Davidson at April 6, 2007 1:04 PM
Comment #215359

Wooooow,

I just read that.

It kind of makes you think of all our soldiers that endured physical torture, rape, issolation for months and sometimes even years, yet they don’t talk.

Kind of makes Britain look a bit soft to me.

Really makes me appreciate the level of training our troops recieve as well.

This is why we are the super power, and I am not talking military strength, I am talking about self sacrifice for the greater good.

If that is what England is calling torture, then the won’t stand a chance if their ever invaded again.

Just another example of why I am proud to be an American.

Posted by: Bryan AJ Kennedy at April 6, 2007 3:18 PM
Comment #215361

Not fair at all Bryan.
They were in a different situation than troops at war. They had done nothing wrong and in fact, took measures to not do anything which could escalate into hostilities. They should be commended for what they did and had to endure.

I’ve served with Brits and they aren’t a bunch of soft pansies. They are some of the finest soldiers around. Good people.

Besides, even though Rob here and the media would like to link sleep deprivation and the such to the Ghengis Khan style torture they believe we do, I doubt if they really think they were tortured as such.

Posted by: kctim at April 6, 2007 3:37 PM
Comment #215364

It would have been nice if while dressed up in bad suits and given bags of parting gifts by their kidnappers those British hostages weren’t acting like people who’d just won a new bedroom set and a Caribbean vaction on the Price is Right. That was kind of pathetic, but not the big deal some are making it out to be.

Yes, it’s true as some commentators have been pointing out in the media, that people like John McCain endured years of imprisonment and torture rather than make false confessions.

This is a different situation, though. For one thing, it really didn’t matter what they confessed to, since no sane person could think their act was anything but fake.

This kidnapping and the subsequent event was disturbing not so much for the behavior of the hostages but for the reaction of the EU and United Nations, who once again showed themselves to be worthless.

Posted by: Loyal Opposition at April 6, 2007 5:21 PM
Comment #215365

McCain DID eventually confess under torture:

http://cathyyoung.blogspot.com/2005/11/more-from-anti-anti-torture-camp.html

as does everyone eventually. Which is why the military just tells people to hold out as long as possible and tell as much BS as possible.

Posted by: always blue at April 6, 2007 5:28 PM
Comment #215379

Torture is pointless. You break into a person’s will, rather than into their memory banks. The difference is, you’re making somebody suggestible, which means the wrong turn of phrase from YOU can screw up the content you get from the interrogation.

I have no doubt KSM is guilty of a lot. I would, however, have liked to know precisely what he was guilty of, who he was actually associating with, and what exactly was planned by al-Qaeda in the years ahead, and I am willing for this country to give up the pleasure of paying that guy back for the pain he’s caused in order to further disadvantage the enemy.

I challenge anybody who defines the methods used at Gitmo and Abu Ghraib as not being torture to willingly undergo these methods. It would be illuminating seeing what their take on things would be after they start seeing the bugs coming out of the walls, or once they experience the wonders of feeling like you’re being drowned.

It’s quite easy, isn’t it, to speak for other people’s experiences, rather than speak from one’s own.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at April 6, 2007 9:46 PM
Comment #215382

This is really silly on several levels, but let me just list the first few -

1. The British sailors could not confess to anything. They were either in Iranian waters or not. That is checkable. It makes no difference what they say or do not say.
2. KSM was a known terrorist before. His confession to 9/11 does not really add anything to the case.
3. What we really wanted from KSM was information to break future plots.

Stephen

Abu Ghraib was a crime. Nobody defends it and everybody is ashamed of it. Nobody was trying to get any information from those guys. They were not being asked to confess to anything. There is nobody who disagrees with you that this was a crime. It was not policy. It was bad guys who were punished. This one is a red herring.

Nobody would like to undergo Gitmo. I would not like to spend time in prison in general. Yet I understand there are times when it is appropriate. If I killed someone, I would expect to be thrown in jail and I expect I would call it unfair, maybe even torture.

Many journalists, politicians of both parties and others have visited Gitmo. It is a prison.

Posted by: Jack at April 6, 2007 10:29 PM
Comment #215387

Don’t they train soldiers to admit to anything in situations like that? Everybody knows those guys weren’t really sorry — or happy to be wearing the bad suits.

Posted by: American Pundit at April 6, 2007 11:13 PM
Comment #215395

AP

You are right. But the larger point is that uniformed military cannot confess to anything except being uniformed military. By definition, they cannot confess anything re their country’s intent. I suppose they could confess to some personal crime, but that is not what the Iranians were looking for.

I am not ashamed of the military guys. I am distressed by some of the craven and stupid reaction by westerners. We should just assume it is BS and move on.

Posted by: Jack at April 6, 2007 11:43 PM
Comment #215403
I am distressed by some of the craven and stupid reaction by westerners. We should just assume it is BS and move on.

If by “westerners” you mean the idiots on FOX Noise who are saying the Brits should have fought to the last bullet, I agree.

Posted by: American Pundit at April 7, 2007 12:11 AM
Comment #215406

And BTW, this is why I’m so disappointed in Republicans. Most Republicans obviously have NO faith in the strength of our country.

The very idea that talking to our enemies somehow weakens us as a nation is ludicris. This country, even after having our military gutted in a poorly-planned unnecessary war in Iraq, is still the strongest country in the world.

Despite having our economy gutted by the massive national debt and trade imbalances run up over the last six years, America is still an economic powerhouse.

Despite the black eye given to our country by Abu Ghraib, Gitmo, and the Afghans we tortured to death at Baghram airbase, American movies, food and culture are popular everywhere around the world.

The very idea that America can somehow be weakened by talking to our enemies just shows a disturbing lack of faith in the strength of our country. The Republican Party is full of people like that.

Posted by: American Pundit at April 7, 2007 12:29 AM
Comment #215417

Nobody would like to undergo Gitmo. I would not like to spend time in prison in general. Yet I understand there are times when it is appropriate. If I killed someone, I would expect to be thrown in jail and I expect I would call it unfair, maybe even torture.

Posted by: Jack at April 6, 2007 10:29 PM

No doubt you would Jack. I just imagine you would also expect a fair trial carried out promptly first however.

Posted by: Paul in Euroland at April 7, 2007 7:02 AM
Comment #215430

Paul

If I went to Afghanistan to fight for the Taliban, I would be happy not to be shot on the spot.

Posted by: Jack at April 7, 2007 10:45 AM
Comment #215444

Jack
I kind of feel sorry for that stupid kid doing 20 years for helping the Talaban. When he joined them at least some of them had been called “freedom fighters” by Reagan and given arms and training by the US. They were not even on the terrorist watch list. After 9/11 they changed overnight to the enemy. His sentence should be commuted. He was not much of a soldier and was just there. Wrong place /wrong time.

Posted by: BillS at April 7, 2007 12:14 PM
Comment #216151

BillS,

You forgot to mention that the 9/11 hijackers only flew into the World Trade Center because they forgot to allow for the wind! Wrong place at the wrong time!

JD

Posted by: JD at April 12, 2007 12:37 AM
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