Democrats & Liberals Archives

"Oh what a tangled web..."

The Bush regime lied to get us into the war in Iraq. Now, as Bush might say; “In Texas we got a sayin… When uh - when uh - you got a - a - a - tangled can o worms… it uh… its uh… its like a net you see… and uh… there is evil doers in the world… Ha Ha and some some of ems liars you see… and uh that is what the tangled can o worms means. You see… Ha Ha…” He is a happy guy - stupid - but happy.

The Shiites in Iraq are warning us not to mess them in this so called crack down / surge. See: Shiites protest arrest of Iraqi lawmaker's son They are willing to roll over and play dead as long as we take their side in the civil war and fight their civil war for them. Mean while the lying Bush Regime is beating the drums of war with Iran and accusing them of arming the insurgency in Iraq, but saying nothing about the fact that Saudi Arabia is supplying the Sunni insurgents with the weapons and training to bring down helicopters. It should be noted that the ability to bring down helicopters is a key component to defeating military occupations in modern warfare. That is how the Soviets were defeated in Afghanistan. The Afghans made the roads to dangerous by using improvised roadside bombs and then used our missiles to shoot down Soviet Choppers and Soviets were beaten. Thanks to our friends, the Saudis, the insurgents in Iraq are now developing the ability to shoot down our choppers. This war has long since become unwinable. It is now becoming straight up - flat out - lost. The Bush Regimes preferred solution: Start another war with Iran. See: Cheney: 'All options' available for Iran Now, sit in the full lotus position, take a few deep cleansing, relaxing breaths, and contemplate the tangled web. We are allying ourselves with the Shiites in the Iraqi civil war as the only hope of achieving stability in in Iraq. Those self same Shiites are closely allied with Iran, yet this President wants start a war with Iran which will open Pandora's Box in Iraq. Mean while we are close allies with the Saudis who actually are arming the Sunni insurgency against us in Iraq. We are playing both sides against the middle - unfortunately - we are in the middle.

It appears that Sigmund Freud was correct after all. One of his basic principals was repetition compulsion - the need to recreate and relive traumatic events. It appears that this one poor deluded sick Texan needs to recreate and relive the Alamo on a megalithic scale. It is either that, or Armageddon, or both.

Posted by Ray Guest at February 24, 2007 8:36 AM
Comments
Comment #209524

Evidence of Saudi involvement in arming Sunnis?

Posted by: bills at February 24, 2007 10:35 AM
Comment #209537

And all the Dems who voted for the war before they were against it and President Clinton lied about the Iraqi threat OR were so stupid that Bush could trick them. Of course in the Clinton case, he made the policy of regimee change for Iraq in 1998. It is hard to blame Bush, but I know you can figure it out how if you create a sufficiently tangled web.

Posted by: Jack at February 24, 2007 11:48 AM
Comment #209541

Jack Jack Jack At least most of the Dems have said it was a mistake to vote to give bush the unlimited power to wage war. Oh and some Reps now know it was a mistake. When are the rest of the neo-cons going to wake up or are you going to follow bush right over the cliff.

Posted by: Jeff at February 24, 2007 12:46 PM
Comment #209542

Clinton made the policy of regime change? Did that policy say it was to be done through war? That’s the basis for pre-emptive war?

Give me a break.

Posted by: womanmarine at February 24, 2007 12:49 PM
Comment #209549

Hey Ray, don’t forget to credit the newspaper or TV station with Bush’s quote at the beginning of your article. That’s funny stuff. Sadly believeable, but funny.

Posted by: ray at February 24, 2007 1:11 PM
Comment #209553

gw….you just said a mothfull. Too bad Shrub isn’t listening to your advice too. He gets all the information from his field commanders and if he doesn’t like what they tell him…..he fires ‘em. Way to go shit-for-brains.
This fool is taking us down and the speed only accelerates. Our standing in the world won’t recover for years, and those who come behind us are in for the fight of their lives. We just need to bring in a giant Hoover and suck all the garbage out in one “swell foop” !!!

Posted by: Sandra Davidson at February 24, 2007 1:34 PM
Comment #209557

Um, ah… uh… isn’t that, a, uh… an ad hominim attack? I mean, uh… making fun of someone, ah… right, that sure is, or is not, rather, a logical argument.

Democrats have swung far, far, far to the left because of the war. This will likely destroy their electoral chances for years to come.

Posted by: eric simonson at February 24, 2007 2:04 PM
Comment #209556

What the hell does my dad have to do with anything I said, unless you don’t believe that women can have and use their own minds…. and even though he is no longer living, he can influence me and my decisions?!?!?! Tread easy there gw, and watch the personal attacks.

Posted by: Sandra Davidson at February 24, 2007 2:04 PM
Comment #209567

Jeff

If the Dems were to say, “We went into the Iraq war based on certain assumptions, which turned out not to be valid. We now believe that the cost of staying in Iraq are higher than the costs of leaving.”

We might disagree about modalities, but it would be a decent debate.

What I reject is the Dem BS that Bush (whose intelligence they otherwise disparage) lied to them so effectively that Senators with decades of experience were just taken in. In some cases they are just being dishonest. In others, I think they have really convinced themselves it is true, in order to clear their own guilt. In either case, their acussations poison the well and destroy an honest debate.

So Dems should just get down from their high horse. Some (not many) of them opposed the war from the start. Although they mostly did it for the wrong reasons, they can at least claim to be consistent. Those who were with the majority back in 2003, can say that they have changed their minds, but they have no right to claim anything else about themselves or anybody else.

Posted by: Jack at February 24, 2007 2:34 PM
Comment #209568

gw……since attacking the messenger is supposed to be a no-no on here, I’ll just forgo any further troll-feeding.

Posted by: Sandra Davidson at February 24, 2007 2:37 PM
Comment #209575

gw

I suggest you review the facts. And try to be nicer. I do not worry about being a loser, BTW. Some would call me that; most would not. am unlikely to be able to change the verdict at this late date in any case.

Posted by: Jack at February 24, 2007 2:55 PM
Comment #209579

gw I think we can all agree that you do not need to use the kind of words that are on your posts. We can all be adults and disagree without the use of cuss words and trash talk.

Posted by: Jeff at February 24, 2007 3:12 PM
Comment #209583

gw Most of what I here is the truth about the bush but most people don’t call him cuss words. Shit bloggers does apply to at least one person on this blog!!!

Posted by: Jeff at February 24, 2007 3:26 PM
Comment #209589

Is this necessary or even acceptable to watchblog? I thought it wasn’t okay to attack the messenger? I am no prude but crass is crass.

Posted by: womanmarine at February 24, 2007 4:18 PM
Comment #209594

Eric, You mean like in ‘06? Yep, that’s a far left stance, opposition to stupidity.

Posted by: gergle at February 24, 2007 4:52 PM
Comment #209603


How about a list of all the things that Bush and especially Cheney have been right about concerning Iraq? Jack? Eric? This war is 4 years old, the list must be enormous.

Posted by: jlw at February 24, 2007 5:24 PM
Comment #209606

Hey Guys!!

Who the heck is GW? Where are his\her posts?
It’s awfully hard to follow this post if for no other reason that it seems to hinge on GW’s comments.

As for whether Bush lied - I thought that was a given at this point. Whether the Senators and Representatives should have been able to know that the information they were given was false - well, frankly I don’t see how - unless each one could have individually read the Administrations’ minds telepathically. This includes the Republicans.

Posted by: Linda H. at February 24, 2007 5:58 PM
Comment #209615

Linda H….. I just went back to check, and all of gw’s posts have been romoved from here……he had gotten pretty caustic and abusive.

Posted by: Sandra Davidson at February 24, 2007 7:13 PM
Comment #209617

ray wrote:

Hey Ray, don’t forget to credit the newspaper or TV station with Bush’s quote at the beginning of your article. That’s funny stuff. Sadly believeable, but funny.

I thought that I made it clear in the way that I phrased it, that that was not an actual quote Bush. I was just free syling the sort of thing that he might say.

I assume gw’s comments for rules violations. I deliberately wrote a provocative article. I am sorry if I provoked rules violations. We critique the message - not the messenger here. It is more effective anyway.

Jack,

Good criticisms. I am not sure that I have time to fully answer. I will address your comments about Democrats being inconsistent. As you may remember from previous discussions. I was opposed to this war before it started. I participated in quiet candle light war protests before it started. I should of have made much more noise. In fact I also opposed the war in Afghanistan. Like many Democrats I was cowed into relative silence by the right wing proto-fascist fervor that was sweeping the country at that time. I changed my position after the war started and supported it because I understood that it was important for imperial powers to win their wars. When I came to see that the war was unwinable I changed my position back to opposition. My point is that there is nothing wrong with people (Democrats) changing their position in light of changing circumstances and new information. Further, there is nothing wrong with people being mad as hell that were lied into a life and death decision (war) of massive proportions.

Bills wrote:

Evidence of Saudi involvement in arming Sunnis?
See: Saudi denies may interfere in Iraq to back Sunnis “Me thinks they dost protest too much.” See also:Saudis to back Sunnis if U.S. leaves Iraq See also:Saudi Citizens Funding Iraq Insurgents See also: Sixth Downed Copter in Three Weeks NOT a Trend I will grant you that none this constitutes proof of Saudi government activity but as Bush might say: “This crap sure smells like smoke and where there is crap there is fire. That is a sayin they have down in Texas”

Posted by: Ray Guest at February 24, 2007 7:35 PM
Comment #209623

Jack,

Do you even remember Bush saying that he wasn’t really going to go to war, but needed congress to authorize it so that Iraq would know the threat was a real possibility? When he was saying that, and meanwhile planning to actually invade - wasn’t he lying? Does believing the president during a national crisis make us stupid?

Posted by: Max at February 24, 2007 9:02 PM
Comment #209634

Jack,

To add to what Max is saying here: We may have been fools to believe Bush one time. We won’t make that mistake again. Bush has no credibility with us or the world. His Regime is still lying. The military, under his direct command, keeps saying that the choppers are just crashing or landing hard. Then terrorists / insurgents claim to have shot them down and produce videos proving it. Then the military says; Oh yeah, they were shot down. It is a sad day in hell, when the terrorists have more credibility than we do.

Posted by: Ray Guest at February 24, 2007 10:20 PM
Comment #209635

Of course, the Bush Regime does want to admit that the choppers are being shot down for political reasons. That would mean that the gig is up. It is over, finished, kaput, done. So they lie and lie some more, and bully the mass media into keeping quiet about their obvious lies.

Posted by: Ray Guest at February 24, 2007 10:24 PM
Comment #209653

We cannot leave Iraq. Leaving would give Al Queda victory!!! We must stay for however long it takes.

I am sure our brave GI’s would not dishonor thier dead by abandoning the job. We must honor them by keeping them in the field.

Posted by: Juan dela Cruz at February 25, 2007 5:25 AM
Comment #209655

Juan, over 59000 American Service Members died and before they did they were given the same bs by the government that was in at the time. Got to stop the commie’s in Nam or they will take over the world, bs, and if you believe what you said, why not join and go over there. I had 2 sons there at the beginning, one who thinks Bush is the biggest A**Hole in the world, the other thought Bush was right, now he is wondering.

Bush and cronies feed Congress a bunch of bs to get their ok to go into Iraq. Even the intelligent (oxymoron name) community now says that the info given to Congress was skewed, and did not show the real intel.
As far as this blog or any blog, or newpaper/tv show, are they tell the whole story, not at all, they are telling you what they want you to know, and skew all the facts to their point of view. In the end it is all propaganda.

KT

Posted by: KT at February 25, 2007 8:12 AM
Comment #209657

Thanks KT - well said. I would add that neither Juan nor Bush define what victory means nor does either address the issue that it absolutely pointless to continue fighting a lost cause. Even if one foolishly thinks that the war was and is a just cause it is still pointless to fight a lost cause. If it is lost, and I think it is, come home, keep your powder dry, and prepare for the big one.

Posted by: Ray Guest at February 25, 2007 8:57 AM
Comment #209659

gw, was banned from WB a long time ago. He managed to sneak in again, but, caught, and banned yet again. If you see comments from gw in the future, just ignore them, since they will be deleted when discovered.

Posted by: Manager@watchblog.com at February 25, 2007 9:30 AM
Comment #209661
We cannot leave Iraq. Leaving would give Al Queda victory!!! We must stay for however long it takes.

Funny…al Qaeda wasn’t even active in Iraq until the US invaded and forgot to seal the borders (but guarded the oil ministry building!)…

Posted by: Lynne at February 25, 2007 10:39 AM
Comment #209670

Is the Bush administration now stacking the deck to remove prosecutors that might act against them?

Once a scoundrel, always a scoundrel. The core of this admininstration is rotten. Britney may need rehab, but Bushco needs jail time.

Posted by: gergle at February 25, 2007 12:17 PM
Comment #209674

gergle,

The Post went into a bit more detail about that last week:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/02/17/AR2007021701509_pf.html

“Republicans complained to Gonzales about McKay’s decision not to intervene in the disputed Washington gubernatorial race in 2006, which a Democrat eventually won by 129 votes.”

“Lam was the target of repeated complaints from conservative House Republicans, who asserted that she was lax in enforcing immigration laws.”

“the cases that have gotten most of the attention among Democrats in Congress involve public-corruption investigations. In San Diego, Lam oversaw the probe that resulted in the guilty plea of then-Rep. Randy “Duke” Cunningham, a Republican. Two others connected to that case, including a former senior CIA official, were indicted two days before Lam left the job”

“Bogden in Nevada and Charlton in Arizona were also in the midst of investigations targeting current or former Republican members of Congress when they were fired.”

Posted by: KansasDem at February 25, 2007 1:36 PM
Comment #209703


The quickest way for Congress to end the war in Iraq and to prevent a war in Iran is to pass a law that says that no American company can profit from their oil.

Posted by: jlw at February 25, 2007 11:52 PM
Comment #209711


Associated Press-Ipsos poll 2/12-15/07

63% oppose sending more troops

61% mistake to go to war in Iraq

68% oppose cutting off funding for war

60% oppose cutting off funding for more troops

64% more troops will not stabalize the situation

56% Iraq war is a hopeless cause

Guess # of U.S. troops killed-median guess 2,974

Guess # of Iraqi civilians killed-median 9,890

Percentage of Americans who don’t no anyone who has served in Iraq-83%

CBS News poll 2/8-11/07 Disapprove of the way Bush has handled the war

All 68%
Republicans 36%
Democrats 90%
Independents 70%

Perhaps the reason a majority don’t want the funds cut off is because they think Bush will do more harm to the troops than he already has.

Perhaps the reason that the people believe that less than 10,000 Iraqi civilians have been killed is because they don’t want to believe that we have been responsible for more than 100,000 possibly as many as 500,000 dead Iraqi’s.

Posted by: jlw at February 26, 2007 1:16 AM
Comment #209723

jlw,

I don’t know about you but there’s very little difference in the guilt scale between murdering 3,000 soldiers vs. murdering 100,000 people vs. murdering 500,000 people vs…

Posted by: Dave1-20-2009 at February 26, 2007 11:25 AM
Comment #209757


Dave1-20-2009: As Bob D. said, you don’t count the dead when God is on your side.

Posted by: jlw at February 26, 2007 4:26 PM
Comment #209823

“There’s an old saying in Tennessee — I know it’s in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on…shame on you…fool me — you can’t get fooled again.” - George W. Bush, Nashville, TN, September 17, 2002.

Posted by: Boomer at February 27, 2007 9:43 AM
Comment #209866
The people who think a guy walked on water versus the people who think a horse can fly.
— Scott Adams about the clash of Islam and Christianity. . Posted by: Dave1-20-2009 at February 27, 2007 1:22 PM
Comment #209900

I’m sick of all this nonsense (“Bushit”) that the Democrats are just as much as fault in this whole thing. Who, at the very least, deliberately fudged the intelligence reports? The Democrats wanted to give Bush the option to attack, but they didn’t know how irresponsible or psychopathic this whole administration was then. Even so, they correctly knew it wouldn’t matter how they voted. After the whole thing was revelealed for what it was, which party went out of their way to stifle any disagreement/dissent dictator-style, smear anyone who disagreed (like calling Democrats who served their country “cowards”), and keep up the supply of BS and propaganda?


“Democrats have swung far, far, far to the left because of the war. This will likely destroy their electoral chances for years to come.”

It’s amazing how GOPists can create and believe in a false reality so well. The extreme (and not so extreme) left was kicked out of the Democratic party a long time ago. Part of this whole problem is Democrats trying to be Republican-lite (sucking up to Big Business, trying to pander to the right, and putting “bipartisanship” over right and wrong). On the other hand, Republicans/conservatives certainly haved moved so far to the right it even makes moderate ones who disagree with the Party look “far left.”

I guess nowadays sticking up for the truth or questioning the Greedy Oil Party is something ultra-“liberal” these days. What a bizarre time we live in! By the way, you should check out the latest polls of the America people to see how only “far left lunatics” would dare question it.

Posted by: mark at February 27, 2007 11:02 PM
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