Democrats & Liberals Archives

Insurgency + Civil War + Profiteering = Mess

Some people want to stop using the term insurgency when it comes to the situation in Iraq and call it what it is, a civil war.

Those people are only half right.

The Iraq war, a failed occupation based on "flawed"(invented) intelligence, conceived by a group of elitist neocons who refused to fight in Vietnam themselves, is both an insurgency and a civil war.

Our soldiers are facing insurgents who use IED's and well coordinated attacks to kill and wound our troops who heve been attempting to rebuild Iraq ever since the Rumsfeld/Cheney ill conceived "Shock and Awe" aka. (kill everything) phase of this bungled war was over.

The rapidly growing sectarian violence proves that Iraq is in the midst of a civil war also. Our troops are fighting against groups who attack Muqtada al-Sadrs' shiite militia one day and the very next day have to protect others from his militias' attacks. Sunni-Arab groups killing Shia-Arabs and vice versa sure sounds like civil war to me.
The White House does not want to admit that Iraq has fallen into a bloody civil war for fear that the American people will begin to call the war a mistake. I have news for the Bush administration, we've known this was a mistake for a very long time. Some of us knew this from day one.

The intelligence was bunk, the execution flawed, the equipment lacking, the exit plan nonexistent and the profiteering by Haliburton KBR has been nothing short of shameless.

We need to turn to others for help. We need to sit down with Middle Eastern leaders who share our interests in the successful rebuilding of Iraq. We need to begin to pull our troops into Kuwait. We need to begin listening to our military commanders.

We had many allies in the war on terror after we were attacked by terrorists on 9/11. We need to get them back to the table. We should investigate what, if anything has been rebuilt in Iraq. We need to change the harmful, disreputable tactics utilized by the Bush administration that have served only to destroy our world standing. We must push the Democrats and Republicans to fight the war on terror in a way that reflects what America stands for and not based on a ridiculous scheme cooked up by right-wing ideologues and embraced by fear mongerers.
Do not boubt that Iraq is in the middle of a civil war, that our troops are facing a fierce insurgency and the only success the Bush administration has had in Iraq has benefited Haliburton KBR only.

We've been watching it unfold for three years. It is a tragedy that could and should have been avoided.
There are no easy solutions or quick fixes, but we must start by reaching out and admit failure.

It is not a sign of military weakness to pull out, it just means we have an incompetent President. It is not a sign of weak U.S. resolve if we change"the course", it just shows that our President and his staff of deferment loving jackasses who hid from a war they themselves could have participated in, were wrong on every level regarding the outcome of attacking another country based on made up charges of WMD, with a small, underequiped force lead by an ignorant(culturally, militarily and historically) moron like Rumsfeld, with dreams of profiteering from oil revenues and overcharging the tax payers.

It's Bushs' screw up, but it has to be fixed by everyone. Now.

Posted by Andre M. Hernandez at November 28, 2006 9:15 AM
Comment #196752

Bush continues to lie to himself and lie to the American people, hoping we will participate in the fiction. He truly is in a “state of denial.” Cheney is worse, if possible, with his blithe pronouncements about how Iraq is going “remarkably well.”

(Hint: you can tell Cheney is lying when he prefaces a comment with “I have not seen that” or “I have not read it,” or anytime the word “context” appears in one of his statements. With any luck at all, he will resign soon for “health reasons”).

Iraq has devolved into a civil war. Pretending otherwise is foolish.

According to a poll last month, over 70% of Americans do not believe Bush has a clear plan for Iraq. Over 60% favor withdrawal in a year or less.

The Iraqi government of al-Maliki is within an eyelash of falling. Moqtada al-Sadr has threatened to withdraw from the government if Maliki meets with Bush in Jordan, and that may effectively end democracy in Iraq. (They are meeting in Jordan because Iraq is too dangerous for Bush to risk). Given the hundreds of thousands of casualties, it might make sense to let the government fall, and replace it with an Iranian-allied Shia fundamentalist government, led by SCIRI, Hakim, & Dawa.

I am not saying that is a good thing. I am saying that seems the best that can be hoped for. Civil wars usually end in a military victory by one side or the other. Might as well cut to the chase.

Posted by: phx8 at November 28, 2006 6:12 PM
Comment #196756

Andre M. Hernandez,

No doubt about it.
It’s a mess.
Should our troops be used to baby-sit a civil war?
Why do some worry about more training?
Who is training the insurgents?
Iraq is going to have its civil war with or without us.

Posted by: d.a.n at November 28, 2006 6:21 PM
Comment #196814

“It’s Bushs’ screw up, but it has to be fixed by everyone.”


The key word is “everyone”. But almost everyone laughs at the idea of a draft. Everyone balks at an increase in taxes to pay for the war.

No one wants to face the facts. We’re now in the middle of a hornets nest and the hornets are muliplying faster than WE can.

In hindsight WE:

(1) Never should overthrown Saddam,
(2) Since we did we should have carried out a true
occupation to the tune of One Million troops.

Now that time has passed we have few choices. We can’t really revert to a true occupation without toppling another Iraqi regime, but we can either do that or keep sending Americans to train people that will eventually turn against us.

At this time the Biden plan is the best option. Maliki and the rest of Iraq’s leaders should be presented with two options:

(1)Allow the implementation of the Biden plan, or
(2)We just leave and watch from a distance.

Right now our troops are being played like pieces on a chessboard. WE are not in control, WE are the pawns, and Bush put us in this position. We’re right on the edge of a “tipping point”. If we go backwards we can postpone the “fall” but we’ll pay the price later on. OTOH if we alter course now we might be able to prevent disaster, but it will take a hell of a lot more troops and a total disarming of all Iraqi’s along with a forced division of the sectarian factions.

It won’t happen without the DRAFT. So, it won’t happen.

Posted by: KansasDem at November 29, 2006 12:24 AM
Comment #196828

If you step on a hornets nest, what do you do?
Stay and be stung over and over (to death)?
We should start pulling out and watch from a distance.
Iraqis will have their civil war with or without us.
Iraqis need to get their own act together.
Yes, we exacerbated the situation, but the Iraqis still need to get their own act together.
We’ve been there long enough.
We’ve done enough.
None of this is making the U.S. safer.
It is right to endanger our troops trying to stop their civil war?
What about Darfur?
Why only the interest in the middle east (oil perhaps?).
Should a Draft be started for a foreign nation’s civil war?
Again, that’s a misuse of our troops.
The mess in Iraq is NOT making the U.S. safer.
In fact, one could make the argument that the whole mess has made the whole world less safe?
Our troops can’t be the world police.
Our troops deserve MUCH better.

Posted by: d.a.n at November 29, 2006 8:39 AM
Comment #196837

Bush and all his cronies are well aware of the melting pot of death they deceptively led our troops into. They are also well aware that their motives were greed. They do know that Iraq is mired down in civil war as a result of our occupation. Also that the insurgency is primarily aimed at the americans and not associated with the inner struggles of their new but failing government. It is said that Bush is in denial. I do not believe he is in denial at all. His dilemma is that he will have to live with the burden of this failure and the uneccesary deaths of thousands for the rest of his life. Plus the history books will portray his reign as one of the worst presidencys ever.

That is unless he can somehow turn this mess around into some sort of positive. That of course is the reason for the current mad scramble around the middle east. He and his cronies realize that this is their best last ditch effort to save face in the wake of complete failure in Iraq. And to avoid a totally humiliating and shameful legacy.

No, he is not in denial. He is in a race to save the credibility of his presidency.

Posted by: ILdem at November 29, 2006 9:44 AM
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