Democrats & Liberals Archives

Republicans and the Forces of Evil

Generally speaking, Americans are tolerant, and have diverse opinions - which makes boards like this a great forum for lively debate. Sometimes, however, we see actions that are so vile, so reprehensible, so abhorrent, that everyone’s reaction is the same. Sometimes we look on evil so absolute that it is completely unmistakeable.

I refer, of course, to that vile scourge called "telemarketing". Read on, my friends - if you think you can face the horror I'm about to describe.

The GOP is now employing robot telemarketing devices - you know, the kind that play recorded messages to you? - in a particularly nasty way. The call starts out sounding like a plug for the Democrat - but if you hang up (and who wouldn't?) the robot just calls you back, over and over again. In other words - it pretends to be the opponent while doing its best to thoroughly annoy you. They call at night, and early in the morning, and they usually start "Hi. I'm calling with information about [Dem candidate]".

This, my friends, is unquestionably the face of evil.

These calls have been tracked to the NRCC. It's happening in New Jersey, Pennsylvania, New Hampshire, and in several House districts (at least 15).

Has this happened to you?

My advice - don't get mad, get even. Depending on where you live, this may actually be illegal, and the link above gives advice for how to take action - including the phone number of the robo-call company in charge :-> And don't forget to vote tomorrow.

Posted by William Cohen at November 6, 2006 11:35 AM
Comments
Comment #193587

It must drive wiretappers crazy.

Posted by: Trent at November 6, 2006 12:08 PM
Comment #193601

How refreshing it would be to have real debates, televised, on issues…each candidate would have to state their stance and how it differs from their opponent…but no negative ads, no telemarketing…maybe a couple billboards (not negative)…

What a different campaign it would be if the candidates could only talk about where THEY stand…every ad Randy Graf (R) has run has had nothing to do with where he stands on any issue…it’s all about his opponent…and at least one ad he’s run has been proven to be an out and out lie…yet he is still permitted to run this ad ad nauseam.

I’m tired of voting for pretty (?) faces and would love to actually hear a candidate speak to what they believe are the main issues, side issues, and what their stance is on their issues…I don’t really care if they fish or hunt or write poetry…I want to know their position on that which is important to me, my city, my state, and my country.

Period.

Posted by: Lynne at November 6, 2006 12:45 PM
Comment #193603

I hear that in the old days, politicans would post signs claiming to be their opponents and offering free beer at such and such a place. Of course there was no free beer and the agreived drinkers would presumably blame the other side.

I have gotten calls from real people and robots from both sides. Some are obviously aimed at my answering machine, since nobody talks for the first few seconds and then the robot comes on and says, “sorry I missed you, but …”

It is not a tactic limited to Republicans.

On this very watchblog, I have found people writing in claiming to be Republicans. They write some terrible stuff, usually full of misspelling, but properly using complicated grammar. Soon after we get a “response” pointing out who stupid Repubicans are. Of course, both outrage and response are written by the same guy.

Posted by: jack at November 6, 2006 12:51 PM
Comment #193609

Jack,

Is that really you? He He!

I love the debates on Watchblog, even with poseurs and misspellings (I confess to being too lazy to spell check and being a master typographic errant).


Lynne,

How great that would be. I would never expect a mundane, perfectly poised enviroment, as I doubt you do, but it sure would be nice if both sides and the independants could agree on campaign reform that would bring a semblance of real issue oriented debate.

Posted by: gergle at November 6, 2006 1:16 PM
Comment #193612
It is not a tactic limited to Republicans.

The New York Times says it is tactic limited to Republicans, before now only used to market products. A quick search for “telemarketing” on the FOX news sites show several instances across the country where “RNC tele-marketing is called illegal.”

If you look at the Times website, you will see that the Republican tele-marketing uses push-poll (which is illegal) -like questions, such as “Do you want terrorists to have the same rights as Americans?”, which Democrats are hardly advocating.

Sorry. Your side is just sleazier. Nice kneejerk response though to say this stuff is done all the time by both sides. No matter what the crime, the Republican reaction is “Dems do it too, just as bad.” I’ve yet to hear: “That’s terrible. No one should do that.”

Posted by: Max at November 6, 2006 1:28 PM
Comment #193619

William

First of all do you have any rational corroboration that does not come from the wackos. Second, how does making phone calls equate to voter supression. I can get in my car and go to the polls even if my phone is still ringing.

Posted by: Keith at November 6, 2006 1:42 PM
Comment #193620
On this very watchblog, I have found people writing in claiming to be Republicans. They write some terrible stuff, usually full of misspelling, but properly using complicated grammar. Soon after we get a “response” pointing out who stupid Repubicans are. Of course, both outrage and response are written by the same guy.

This is the opposite of how it is for us Democrats, who get to watch a president who uses terrible grammer, and can hardly spit out a complete sentence. Then we get to come here and have rightwing bloggers like you tell us what a genuis he is.

Posted by: Max at November 6, 2006 1:44 PM
Comment #193622

“It is not a tactic limited to Republicans.”

Really, jack? If that’s true, could you post a link to any actual evidence of Democratic candidates using this tactic - ie, deliberately annoying voters at home with repeated robocalls, while pretending to be the opponents? I didn’t see one in your post….

Personally I think this just an article of faith for Republicans now - that anything Republicans do is ok by definition, because sometime, somewhere, someone in the other party did something similar. But I’ve got good news, guys - by this same argument, it’s ok for you die-hard Red Teamers to vote Democratic tomorrow. Sure, crossing party lines is wrong, but Lieberman does it all the time, so what the hey, you can too….

Keith - “do you have any rational corroboration that does not come from the wackos. Second, how does making phone calls equate to voter supression.”

Keith, this is clearly “just breaking” and hence not perfectly reliable - but there are lots of witnesses to this speaking up, and many of the links above are local news stories, not DailyKos diaries. I think this will reach the MSM by tomorrow, if it is indeed true.

As to “voter suppression”, I think the idea is that if voters are disgusted with the both candidates, they’ll stay home - which generally speaking would suit the incumbents just fime.

Posted by: William Cohen at November 6, 2006 1:53 PM
Comment #193624

Max - “I have found people writing in claiming to be Republicans. They write some terrible stuff, usually full of misspelling…”

Now Max, I think you’re being too hard on SicEagle & Eric S. Remember, attack the massage, not the misinger.

Posted by: William Cohen at November 6, 2006 1:59 PM
Comment #193627

William

Which link is a solid news source?

Posted by: Keith at November 6, 2006 2:22 PM
Comment #193628

The truth is, I hate to misspell things, to mess up what I’m writing. Unfortunately, I’ve grown accustomed to trying to write these things fairly quickly, so I end up noticing all my typos and grammatical errors at about the point that I’ve pushed the “post” button. (I just had to correct a couple errors now)

As for Jack’s theory as to why rude misspellers show up to post republican sentiments, it’s possible, but it’s unproven, and so the simpler of the two arguments, that they’re real, is probably the better of the two.

The qualities of the leaders become the qualities of the lead. We either choose our leaders carefully, or we may just choose to fail.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at November 6, 2006 2:28 PM
Comment #193631

Keith-
I think you would discount this news until FOXNews decided to report it, and then you would take their position. Am I wrong?

There’s a good reason your party’s falling out of favor: You’re too cut off from the reality of what other people think and know to get a good read of what your party can do to sway people’s opinion. You no longer know your enemy, nor how to fight them.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at November 6, 2006 2:37 PM
Comment #193632

Stephen

Some are real. But don’t you think it odd that we get posting by some people who never post otherwise, full of obvious straw man arguments and then followed by a well timed rebuttal? I am 99% certain that some people do this, and I think you probably know who I mean (not you, BTW).

It is an easy tactic. On the blog nobody knows who you are. Some bloggers probably actually have multiple personalities; others just play at it.

Posted by: Jack at November 6, 2006 2:42 PM
Comment #193644

Jack-
I believe its possible. But I also believe it can become a means of not acknowledging the depths to which hatred of liberals has been stoked. I think the editors would know if somebody was playing both sides of the argument, because both sides would have the same IP address.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at November 6, 2006 3:34 PM
Comment #193657

Jack,

Anyway… so that’s it? You think everybody does it, and so it’s okay? Or, people on blogs do it, so it’s okay? These candidates should be jailed.

And IF anyone does it here, they should be banned.

Max

Posted by: Max at November 6, 2006 4:14 PM
Comment #193666

Jack-

Whenever fraud can be exposed, it should be exposed. Noticing a bad act and not doing anything to stop it is no different than aiding and abbetting a criminal, except that instead of criminal penalties there are personal and social ones. Therefore, you should definately voice your suspicions well before they reach the 99% certainty mark.

I just hope this isn’t a justification for, or an attempt at divorcing the radical right wing posts that so often come from our side.

Posted by: Kevin23 at November 6, 2006 5:00 PM
Comment #193670

Kevin, Max et al

There have been several occassions on these blogs where such attempts have been outed and contested. It is hard to tell when someone is clever. There are some posts by regular liberal posters that I would suspect of being provocations, but they express an actual liberal bent.

About a year ago on the blue side there was part of a thread where several people were arguing whether I (Jack) was evil or just stupid. I was hoping evil won, but I did not stay to find out.

Re jailing etc - that is just silly. We have a long tradition of people playing such roles. Ben Franklin frequently did such things, sometimes playing an old woman. It is part of the game. I personally do not do it because I spend all my time putting down liberals in my own name.

My point is lots of people play this game. The fact that you really believe it is only a Republican ploy makes me wonder about your frames of reference.

Posted by: Jack at November 6, 2006 5:10 PM
Comment #193673

Jack,

Don’t you guys EVER get tired of pushing the “Democrats do it, too!” button? (OK, strictly speaking you said it’s not just Republicans. Minor difference.)

It seems like no matter what accusation is made against the GOP, someone from other side is ready to say that Democrats do it too. Is there any limit to how far you guys will take that ploy?

“Republicans rape nuns and eat puppies alive.” “DEMOCRATS DO THAT, TOO!”

“Dick Cheney is a evil robot.” “MANY DEMOCRATS ARE EVIL ROBOTS, TOO!”

“Bush just opened a bottle of nerve gas on TV.” “CLINTON DID THAT, TOO!”

Sheesh.

Posted by: Woody Mena at November 6, 2006 5:18 PM
Comment #193675

Well, matching IP addresses seems like a pretty good BS detection system for WB. Someone would have to use a different computer everytime they posted to prevent detection. That’s a lot of effort just to argue with one’s self. But I’d never say never when dealing with people.

Posted by: Kevin23 at November 6, 2006 5:28 PM
Comment #193680

Jack says “lots of people play this game”.

Well, it’s being played a lot this year, anyway - by Republicans. On large scale, in many places, as attested to by half-a-dozen or so news stories. Deliberately annoying voters at home with repeated robocalls, while pretending to be the opponents…your campaign donations at work, Jack. This isn’t one cross-dressing geriatric prankster, this is thousands of dollars being spent on hundreds of thousands of annoying, misleading and quite possibly illegal calls.

You claim the same game is being played by Democrats…but I can’t help noticing that you’ve yet to provide a single piece of evidence to support this claim in spite of repeated challenges.

Looks to me like the GOP is now the party of spam as well as pork.

Posted by: William Cohen at November 6, 2006 5:41 PM
Comment #193684

William

What have you got? A bunch of liberal bloggers and some articles where Dems say Republicans are doing these things and Republicans say they are not. This is not proof.

I have recieved calls from both parties and several candidates. They all have been annoying, but I believe they were in good faith.

I am afraid this is like the Dems Ohio and Florida game. Lots of smoke, some heat, no fire.

Posted by: Jack at November 6, 2006 5:54 PM
Comment #193700

Sorry Jack. There have been plenty of non-blog sources given to you. It will be all over the MSM tommorrow. Good. that is the best way to stop this tactic is to make it backfire. I understand that nobody likes to admit they have been had but your refutations are getting to the foil hat bordor line. The people you have been defending are not deserving of your support. We have been trying to tell you that for years now.

Posted by: BillS at November 6, 2006 7:58 PM
Comment #193703

If this is happening (and we don’t even know that it is), so what?

Whatever it is, it is not “the face of evil,” and it’s not even illegal. At worst, it’s annoying, and at best it’s just a rather silly and ineffective method of campaigning.

What a commentary on the Democratic party though.

I guess it’s easy to say that we should stop fighting evil in Iraq when you think that the real “face of evil” is automated phone calls.

Posted by: Neo-Con Pilsner at November 6, 2006 8:20 PM
Comment #193708

Pilsner,

“rather silly and ineffective method of campaigning.”

No, it is ingenious. I would not be surprised in the least if many people sitting on the fence were swayed by this tactic.

Posted by: Zeek at November 6, 2006 8:44 PM
Comment #193716

Zeek, I know that a lot of people are not very engaged politically, but I seriously doubt that anybody who knows and cares so little about the candidates is going to vote anyway, much less go to the polls and vote for one person instead of another simply because they’re annoyed by automated campaign phone calls.

There’s a war on, for goodness sake, and someobody is going to vote merely to get revenge for an annoying phone call? It’s too ridicuolous to believe.

Posted by: Neo-Con Pilsner at November 6, 2006 9:11 PM
Comment #193718

the homogenization of the republocrats is nearly complete; the democrats running candidates that are more conservative than some republicans - at a time when all the democrats have to do to win is shut up and show up… the republicans running *as* democrats (steele democrat?), or omitting their affiliation altogether… and now they are funding each other’s annoying ads?

if this weren’t so pathetic, it might be funny.

Posted by: Diogenes at November 6, 2006 9:17 PM
Comment #193721

Diogenes, Steele a Democrat? He’s a lot more conservative than a whole lot of Republicans in Congress. All I can think is that you see a black face and assume: Democrat. Well, Democrats have taken the black vote for granted for too long now and offered them nothing, and the Republicans want to help African Americans help themselves.

Posted by: Neo-Con Pilsner at November 6, 2006 9:35 PM
Comment #193723

typical.

you would assume i am a racist rather than take the time to investigate the issue.

one of steele’s *own* campaign bumper stickers says “STEELE DEMOCRAT”. i very well know that he is a republican.

as for your assertion regarding the republicans’ intent to help blacks, the republicans have more than proven that the only ones they intend to help are *themselves* - the country, the constitution, and the people be damned.

“He’s a lot more conservative than a whole lot of Republicans in Congress”

while i’m not in a position to knowledgeably debate steele’s political beliefs, i would hardly accept your assessment of what constitutes a ‘conservative,’ as the defining one…neocon.

Posted by: Diogenes at November 6, 2006 9:51 PM
Comment #193726

Pilsner,

Why do you reference only the politically apathetic? You can care about politics but be swayed by this tactic if you are really undecided on who to vote for and have a slightly primitive rationale. I agree that in a landslide or otherwise dominant election that this would be ineffectual but with so many dead-heats across the nation this kind of tactic is going to be of some use.

Posted by: Zeek at November 6, 2006 9:55 PM
Comment #193727

Woody

the difference is when Republicans get annoying calls we hang up the phone and move on with our lives.

Posted by: Keth at November 6, 2006 9:56 PM
Comment #193728

FCC regulations state that whoever is responsible for the robo calls must state who they are at the begining of the call. The republican calls mention the democratic candidate first which suggests that the democrats are responsible for calling at 4am. Therefor, the calls are indeed illegal. ABC has finally picked up the story and the others will follow. The republicans are claiming that they can’t be held responsible for everyone who is doing the robocalls. But, Ken Melman authorized and payed for them.

Posted by: jlw at November 6, 2006 9:59 PM
Comment #193732

Diogenes, “Steele Democrat” is a slogan for Democrats who support Steele. It’s like Reagan Democrats, and nobody thought Reagan was a Democrat.

If anyone voted for Reagan thinking he was a Democrat, they were idiots.

By the same token, if anybody hears or sees the slogan “Steele Democrat” and thinks that means Steele is a Democrat and votes for him on that basis, then they’re simpletons with such a poor grasp of politics that they deserve to be fooled.

Posted by: Neo-Con Pilsner at November 6, 2006 10:02 PM
Comment #193733

jlw

“The republicans are claiming that they can’t be held responsible for everyone who is doing the robocalls. But, Ken Melman authorized and payed for them.”

Did you call him and he told you that?

Posted by: Keith at November 6, 2006 10:03 PM
Comment #193734

This isn’t even the worst thing the Republican’ts are engaged in. They are also calling African American voters and telling them that if they try to vote they will be arrested, or that if they voted in the primary election then they don’t need to vote again in the gerneral election.

CNN is reporting that these calls are illegal because they do not identify who is calling at the start of the call.

The DNCC’s Rahm Emanuel has said that they will be persuing civil action against the NRCC following the election.

Posted by: JayJay at November 6, 2006 10:07 PM
Comment #193736

very enlightening.

so if someone lies to you, it is *your* fault for believing it - clearly they hold no responsibility for your gullibility… so that’s how those assholes get to sleep at night.

regardless, not my point at all. try re-reading my post.

Posted by: Diogenes at November 6, 2006 10:14 PM
Comment #193737

Diogenes

I believe the bumper sticker was a reference to the expression “Reagan democrats”.

Posted by: Keith at November 6, 2006 10:17 PM
Comment #193738

…and someone should fill in your commander-in-thief. what was it he said, “fool me once…”

…now there is a simpleton with a poor grasp of politics.

Posted by: Diogenes at November 6, 2006 10:17 PM
Comment #193739


Keith: How did you guess.

The Democrats have filed a cease and desist order and called on the justice Dept. and the FCC to investigate.

Keith: At the end of the calls-paid for by the RNCC. That is ken Melman and they don’t spend a dime on anything without his consent and approval.

Robocalls are illegal in Indiana so the republicans outsourced the job to India and people with very thick accents are calling to complain about the democrats stance on illegal immigration. One republican candidate is extremely upset about the calls made on his behalf, claiming that the accents were so thick that they couldn’t be understood.

Posted by: jlw at November 6, 2006 10:24 PM
Comment #193740

This letter was written to the Justice Department, the Federal Communications Commission, and the Federal Election Commission by Rep. John Conyers, Jr. and John Dingell:

“We write to demand an immediate investigation concerning allegations of unethical and possibly illegal prerecorded phone calls designed to confuse voters in Tuesday’s election. These misleading calls are made late in the evening, or during the night, in an effort to generate anger at the Democratic candidate, who is in no way associated with this harassment. In fact, the calls are being funded by the National Republican Campaign Committee, which has reportedly provided $600,000 to fund this deception.

There have been numerous media reports about these calls, which appear to be occurring in dozens of districts. It is also our understanding that the Republican Party has been forced to stop the calls in New Hampshire.

According to the Associated Press, one individual “received three prerecorded messages in four hours. Each began, ‘Hello, I’m calling with information about [Democratic candidate] Lois Murphy [in the Philadelphia area].’” The Philadelphia Daily News reported that “[t]he calls, which begin by offering ‘important information about Lois Murphy,’ are designed to mislead voters into thinking the message is from her.”

The New Hampshire Union Leader reported that a “national Republican group yesterday scuttled a pre-recorded phone call effort the state Attorney General’s Office said may have violated New Hampshire law by contacting residents listed on the federal Do Not Call registry.”

In Illinois, The Barrington Courier-Review reported that a resident received the following phone call - “Hi. I’m calling with information about [Democratic Candidate] Melissa Bean.” She received the same call a total of 21 times since October 24.” Others reported receiving the same calls, none of which were paid for by Ms. Bean or any Democratic group.

If true, these allegations could violate a number of federal laws and legal requirements. Among other things, 47 CFR 1200 (b)(1) provides that prerecorded telephone messages must “[a]t the beginning of the message, state clearly the identity of the business, individual, or other entity that is responsible for initiating the call.” Section 441h of the Federal Election Campaign Act provides that no agent of a federal candidate shall “fraudulently misrepresent himself or any committee or organization under his control as speaking or otherwise writing or acting for or behalf of any other candidate or political party.” Section 441d(d)(2) specifies that communications must provide a statement as to the party responsible for it, and the campaign finance laws generally prohibit fraudulent and deceptive activities. A number of state laws also appear to be applicable, such as New Hampshire’s which prohibits calls to individuals on the federal Do Not Call registry.

Given the magnitude and seriousness of these charges, we ask that you immediately investigate and take action to protect the integrity of our electoral process and hold the culpable parties responsible.”

Posted by: JayJay at November 6, 2006 10:25 PM
Comment #193741

Diogenes, if the Democrats made a bumper sticker that said “Hillary Clinton Republican” and any Republicans voted for her on that basis, or on the basis of automated phone calss, then those people are so stupid and uninformed that I’d be ashamed to say that my side had any “right” to their vote.

Virtually all of these BS voter manipulation scandals that Democrats holler about are predicated on the assumption that huge numbers of Democratic voters are so unbelievably brain-dead and lazy that absolutely any trick, ploy, or even potential disorientation prevents them from voting for Democrats.

That says a lot about what it means to be a Democrat.

Posted by: Neo-Con Pilsner at November 6, 2006 10:27 PM
Comment #193742

steele has been deliberately ambiguous. yes, i believe it is clearly his intent to deceive the less politically savvy among us.

he has been using slogans such as ‘ready for change?,’ which does apply in his case, yet has been a national slogan for the democrats as well. intentionally misleading.

he also has been relying on the general bias that if a person is black, they will be a democrat = relying on the very bias which neocon accused me of. imagine that.

running as a republican should not be something that one has to hide, play down, or be ashamed of. if it is, then that says a whole helluva lot more about what it means to be a republican.

Posted by: Diogenes at November 6, 2006 10:29 PM
Comment #193743

Conyers and Dingell. Now there’s the Democratic brain trust.

Why don’t they just say: “Our voter base is so unbelievably ignorant that they must be legally insulated from anything that might confuse them and distract them from voting for us.”

Posted by: Neo-Con Pilsner at November 6, 2006 10:32 PM
Comment #193744


JayJay: Great job. Melman is already under investigation for the phone jamming in New Hampshire during the last election. Perhaps before to long, Ken will be where he deserves to be.

Posted by: jlw at November 6, 2006 10:38 PM
Comment #193745

whether or not it should be, the (D) or (R) is used by a great many people as a heuristic. they don’t necessarily know what the individual stands for, but they fully understand what the (D) or (R) stands for. they often base there votes soley on that, right or wrong - and they have a general idea about what kind of policy positions to expect from that individual.

furthermore, these people (who you so derisively refer to as ‘stupid’ or ‘brain-dead and lazy’) are often too busy working to care for their families to concern themselves with the ongoings of their morally and politically bankrupt representatives in DC.

finally, i call many of these people my friends (republican and democrat), and thereby take offense to your comments on all of their behalf. quite obviously, the elitist neocon persuasion of the new republican party has entirely lost touch with the common folk (who constitute the majority of america).

Posted by: Diogenes at November 6, 2006 10:44 PM
Comment #193746


If the voter base is so unbelievably ignorant that illegal calls confuse them, them the dems deserve to loose. Is that your argument Neocon?

It takes a moron to vote for a moron. If you support George Bush, you should not be calling people ignorant (not knowing the facts.)

Posted by: jlw at November 6, 2006 10:51 PM
Comment #193747

I, for one, welcome our new robot overlords.

Posted by: eric simonson at November 6, 2006 10:53 PM
Comment #193750
If the voter base is so unbelievably ignorant that illegal calls confuse them, them the dems deserve to loose. Is that your argument Neocon?

Yep. That’s about it.

Except delete “illegal” and insert “annoying” since it’s highly unlikely that it’s illegal. If anything, it’s probably protected free speech under the First Amendment.

Hey, I have an idea. I’m gonna call my buddy Karl Rove right now and tell him that we should plant bushes near voting centers. Get it? Bush!! I’m pretty sure that Democrats will fall for it. And that 100 posts on the Daily Kos will erupt with indignation!

None of this matters anyway because this whole automated phone call thing sounds a lot like the thousands upon thousands of another tin-hat tin-pot Democratic conspiracy theories.

Posted by: Neo-Con Pilsner at November 6, 2006 11:00 PM
Comment #193752

—Regardless of what is being said here today,
seeing Christie, running for Governor in Florida,
running down state an refusing to be on stage
with President Bush who had come to campaign for
Christie, just about says it all. Sorry Neo-Con!

Posted by: DAVID at November 6, 2006 11:02 PM
Comment #193754
On this very watchblog, I have found people writing in claiming to be Republicans. They write some terrible stuff, usually full of misspelling, but properly using complicated grammar. Soon after we get a “response” pointing out who stupid Repubicans are. Of course, both outrage and response are written by the same guy.

I am 99% certain that some people do this, and I think you probably know who I mean (not you, BTW).

Jack,

I’m have no idea who you suspect, but I promise that I do not post under the name rahdigly.

Also, this has been done on the other side. About a month ago, I was debating someone on your side, and pointed out that he wasn’t making any sense. Suddenly, a “liberal” I’d never seen here before came in to translate his ramblings into real words and agree with him. Of course, within a few minutes, he accidentally agreed with himself in the wrong name.

It was very funny.

Posted by: LawnBoy at November 6, 2006 11:07 PM
Comment #193758


Dave: I saw the Bush/Christie article. It wasn’t oh I have another engagement, it was an outright refusal to be seen with Bush. The only one left for Bush to support was Kathern Harris and no one likes her anymore, not even George and Jeb. Never the less, he probably doubled her vote count from 2 to 4.

I just watched classic Bill Clinton at the Webb rally in Virginia courtesy of TPM and You Tube.

Posted by: jlw at November 6, 2006 11:31 PM
Comment #193759


No way it could possibly be illegal if republicans are doing it. They are moral and never do anything illegal.

Posted by: jlw at November 6, 2006 11:35 PM
Comment #193775

NCP:

Virtually all of these BS voter manipulation scandals that Democrats holler about are predicated on the assumption that huge numbers of Democratic voters are so unbelievably brain-dead and lazy that absolutely any trick, ploy, or even potential disorientation prevents them from voting for Democrats.
These calls aren’t aimed at the base of Democratic voters, but at swing voters. Either side, like it or not, is dependent on convincing swing voters in addition to getting out their base. After six years of suffering through Bush and twelve of a Republican controlled House it amazes me too that swing voters still exist, but not everyone is as immersed in politics as you and I, NCP.

Swing voters might perfectly reasonably vote against someone they find annoying, and it’s a dirty trick plain and simple. I can see how it sounds overwrought to equate “an annoying phone call” to “the face of evil”, but Mehlman wouldn’t be doing it if he didn’t think it might influence the outcome, and control of Congress has huge ramifications measured in billions of dollars, so I think the characterization is not at all far off.

Posted by: Walker Willingham at November 7, 2006 2:38 AM
Comment #193786

Lawnboy et al

I accept that conservative side people have done this too. Exactly my point is that some people on both sides engage in dirty tricks.

What I find unbelievable is the liberal idea that all their guys are honest and above board. Each election we hear complaints about election fraud. More of those SUSTAINED are against Dems. We have the tire slashing in Milwaukee, the poll staying open in St Louis, altzheimers ward voting solidly Dem, street people being bribed with booze and cigaretts.

ALL the big political machines since Tamany Hall have been run by and for the benefit of Dems. It is ironic and more than a little annoying to have them now stand tall and claim to be the aggrieved party.

Posted by: Jack at November 7, 2006 8:45 AM
Comment #193791

One more writeup on this, with some useful-looking links (eg “how to sue the auto dialers”):

http://politics.slashdot.org/politics/06/11/06/2011251.shtml

And thanks to Jack and NeoCon for clarifying the Red-Team position on all this. To summarize, they seem to like it - and can’t come up with anything similar to complain about on the Democratic side (excepting Tamany Hall). I’m glad we’ve worked that one out.

All true blue Red-Teamers, let’s hear you give three cheers for Ken Mehlman and Karl “spam-the-voters” Rove - sing their praises for once again lowering the bar for integrity of the American electoral process!

And everyone everywhere - go vote!

Posted by: William Cohen at November 7, 2006 9:12 AM
Comment #193792

Neo-Con

I find your arrogant, elitist, holier and more intelligent than thou attitude nauseating. Your outlook on people of less education and political savvy is a shining example of exactly what most of this country detests in regards to the current admin.

The fact that people do not have a degree in political science or a degree at all does not mean they are stupid or uninformed. I personally believe that the middle and lower classes right now are more aware, and care more about what is going on in this world than they have been in a few decades. This is because they are sick and tired of being trod on and lied to by the group you support. It is demeaning and condescending to personally place yourself in a class above and actually believe that you are somehow better. This makes you appear as a shallow person with limited views and no concern for the less fortunate.

I was up and at the polling booth early this morning. In front of me were three voters obviously on their way to work that had never voted before. Their work clothes told me that they were laborers of some type or other. This tells me that people are aware and concerned. And you know what, there was a line longer than I have ever seen in any election in recent history.

And just to keep in line with the jist of this post. The robo calls and continuous calling are very annoying, are illegal, and are horrendously deceptive. Of course they are republican based and just another reflection of how low these moraly corrupt people will go to retain control of the power and money.

Posted by: Middleclassdumbass at November 7, 2006 9:12 AM
Comment #193796

William

I have gotten calls from both parties. I even got stuff from environmentalist groups trying to scare me with tales of deforestation. I did not think that was an election issue, but they assured me that it was a Republican plot. My experience in the last couple of weeks informs my opinion. I live in a county that is split, a state which has a close race and I am exactly the proper demographic that both sides think they want me. I know about this. I do not need the weather report to tell me it is raining.

Liberals are concentrating on one side of this. They are annoyed by the Republicans, who they consider unfair, but just think the Dem efforts are fine and above board.

When this election is over, most of the accusations will not be sustained. Just as in Ohio or Florida, the Dems make lots of fuss, but they have nothing to show for it.

Posted by: Jack at November 7, 2006 9:45 AM
Comment #193803

Neocon-
Actually, it’s illegal in many of the places that its done, and if I remember my telecom policy correctly, you can be held liable for actions that present a person’s character in a false light, or unauthorized use or misuse of their image and/or name. That’s why photographers have you sign waivers, and the movies have disclaimers saying “This is a work of fiction, any resemblance…”

In short, it’s actionable where its not legal.

Also to beconsidered is the “Do Not Call list” that reportedly this robo-calling blatantly ignored. Breaking that law can be very expensive.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at November 7, 2006 10:59 AM
Comment #193805

Yes, this is evil. So are: things like this.
And this too.
And also this.

Posted by: Adrienne at November 7, 2006 11:27 AM
Comment #193807

This doesn’t sound right either.

If any of you Democrats have problems voting, feel free to call the Democratic Party’s national voter protection hotline:
1-888-DEM-VOTE

Posted by: Adrienne at November 7, 2006 11:31 AM
Comment #193810

Well, as I predicted, this is in the MSM today….there’s a article subtitled “Republicans Deny Subterfuge as Phone Barrages Anger Voters”

..critics say Republicans crafted the messages to delude voters — especially those who hang up quickly — into thinking that Democrats placed the calls. Republicans denied the allegation, noting that their party acknowledges its authorship at the recorded calls’ end.
Posted by: William Cohen at November 7, 2006 11:44 AM
Comment #193811

Just remember who to thank for all of these electronic votin machines. Al Gore.

Posted by: Keith at November 7, 2006 11:44 AM
Comment #193813

Al Gore single handedly forced every county board of electors to purchase a certain types and brands of voting machines? Wow. I guess I missed that story despite reading the paper every day.

It would be much closer to fact to say that he was involved in one of the tightest races in history which might have been influenced by voter fraud. Everything else that happened from there on out was the product of thousands of individual efforts all working for the cause of eliminating that fraud in the future. Al Gore may be a big name, but he is not in physical control over thousands of state and county election officials.

Posted by: Kevin23 at November 7, 2006 12:01 PM
Comment #193818


Yes and we can thank the republicans for tampered or nonworking Diebold machines. But, not even Ken Blackwell ( who is still in charge of elections in Ohio) can rig the election again, maybe for Dewhine and other republicans but not for himself unless he can switch his vote for Stricklands. I had to use a Diebold machine with a sticker over the Diebold name.

Posted by: jlw at November 7, 2006 12:16 PM
Comment #193821

Adrienne

Your articles include accusations. Let’s see if they pan out as the DID NOT in Ohio.

Re the CNN article, YES, I wish those mostly Democratically controlled counties mentioned would get their acts together. I do not know if your fellow party memebers are evil, but I suppose they are just Dems.

Kevin et al

It is correct that all these new voting machines were purchased in response to the Florida problem.

You remember the butterfly ballot. The one designed by Dems in a Dem controlled county.

Posted by: Jack at November 7, 2006 12:46 PM
Comment #193824

Here is a good case study of how the Dem slime machine works to create the appearance of impropriety and then is shocked, shocked to discover it. It is only AFTER the election that we usually find smoke but no fire, but by then Dems have firmly put the myth into their storybook along with their great mythical battles in Ohio or Florida.

Posted by: Jack at November 7, 2006 1:24 PM
Comment #193825

Today is election day.
We had an unusually heavy fog this morning in Kansas City.
Election day? Bad weather? Both on the same day? No way!
No doubt that Bush (who is controlled by Cheney, who is controlled by Rove, who is controlled by evil corporations) created this fog with his weather machine in order to discourage Dem voters from voting this morning.

How much more “proof” do you Republicans need?

Posted by: kctim at November 7, 2006 1:25 PM
Comment #193828

To those Republicans who think non-stop campaigning helps their campaigns:

I live in SC. The elections here include our House Representative,our Governor’s race,and a few state races.

Neither party seems to care about our state races, but Boy have the Republicans been driving me up the wall regarding the House seat. Ralph Norman, Republican is challenging Democratic. Incumbent,John Spatt for our House seat.

My husband and I have received so many cards, that I probably could have paid my GAS bills just from the postage they used.

We have had phone calls from former Republican governors, Laura Bush, the wife of our current Governor, Mark Sanford, some guy named Joe Wilson, the candidate, as well as unknowns trying to tell me to vote for the Republican challenger. We have had so many that I finally started counting LAST week, on Sunday October, 29th. In just 10 days, I have had 57 phone calls - at all hours of the day and night. That’s not counting the ones I expect to receive today - and I’ve already voted.

I did actually have a live phone call last night, and I chewed out the poor young man who called. I told him that all the money spent on Ralph Norman should have been turned over to help the deficit,and I was tired of Norman’s, and the insistent Republican cards and phone calls. I also told him, that for a short while I considered voting for Norman, but since the Republican Party obviously couldn’t handle its own money, and insisted on being redundant, they had almost convinced me I didn’t want ANY Republicans elected for anything. My theory is if they can’t control the use of their monies, whose to say they can control mine when it comes to governmental spending.

I have received 2 calls from the Democrat Party, both with REAL people!!!!

I know the “Do Not Call” List does not apply to political parties, but frankly I wish it did.

If the callers had actually given me information about their candidate’s stand on the issues maybe I would feel differently. However, even after researching on the Internet to see where Norman stands on the issues, I couldn’t find anything!!!! None of his ads, cards, or calls provided this information. His voting record in the state of SC simply can not be used to figure out where he stands on Iraq, the economy,education, and immigration. His, and it appears that most of the Republicans running today don’t have minds of their own, or at least won’t express them. Every ad, card, or call I have received has been against Mr. Spatt. NONE have actually said WHAT Norman will DO, wants to DO, or how he plans to DO ANYTHING.

I have spoken at length with John Spatt on the phone - HE actually does call back when there is a message, and at least understand why he voted in the manner he did, even if I disagreed with him.

Obviously this has me leaning towards the Democrats - if sadly to admit, only to get back at all the irritation the Republicans have caused me.

Posted by: Linda H. at November 7, 2006 2:25 PM
Comment #193829

Before I head to my polling place, I thought this was an interesting start to the day:

Already problems with machines

Posted by: womanmarine at November 7, 2006 2:26 PM
Comment #193834

My district in N.CA has reported a record surge of absentee ballots. The county clerks office says that indicates a record turnout. This is a heavily Dem district. Lets hope this carries across the nation.

KCTM: You are so funny and clever. Will you think it is so funny when congress really starts investigating and finds that what this regime has done makes watergate look like a fraternity prank?

Posted by: BillS at November 7, 2006 2:51 PM
Comment #193839

I will find it very funny Bill, just as I did with the clinton “regime.”
Sadly though, I think the right will ignore, excuse and defend their guy the exact same way the left did with clinton.

Then how can I find it funny?
Each time you guys make total asses of yourselves by putting party before country, it opens the door a little more for a real American to get elected.

So you guys keep playing your little partisan games. Keep defending your side and only complain when the other side does it.
Sooner or later, the people will grow tired of it and maybe somebody who actually cares about the country and its Constitution will finally get placed into power.

Until then, I will keep on finding it funny and I will keep on laughing. And since liberals are the bigger whiners and the bigger hypocrits, I will be laughing especially hard when they are the ones lying and clinging to their “hopes and dreams.”

Posted by: kctim at November 7, 2006 3:54 PM
Comment #193851

“furthermore, these people (who you so derisively refer to as ‘stupid’ or ‘brain-dead and lazy’) are often too busy working to care for their families to concern themselves with the ongoings of their morally and politically bankrupt representatives in DC.”

Working and careing for their families doesn’t make a person politically aware. I agree that if a person is too dumb to vote then his or her vote shouldn’t count.

Posted by: tomd at November 7, 2006 5:26 PM
Comment #193852

It’s here…the November bomb shell hit the papers at about 2pm PST:

BRITNEY FILES FOR DIVORCE!

That might be just the thing the republicans needed to keep many young democrats at home this election. The timing sure seems suspicious. I’m betting dollars to donuts that Karl Rove was behind this one. Way to steal another election republicans!

On a serious note…GO VOTE!!

And that K-Fed is a real scumbag isn’t he? Good for her…now back to that career thingy.

Posted by: Kevin23 at November 7, 2006 5:34 PM
Comment #193862

I went to vote a short time ago. There was some construction on the street and a sign saying “sidewalk closed. Use other side.” I am sure that tricked more than a few Dems. You may read about it tomorrow.

Posted by: Jack at November 7, 2006 7:12 PM
Comment #193868

“Working and careing for their families doesn’t make a person politically aware. I agree that if a person is too dumb to vote then his or her vote shouldn’t count.”

that was exactly my point. when one spends their life working their ass off to support a family, politics takes a distant back seat to more pressing priorities.

…and what test would you apply to measure a person’s intellect before allowing them to vote? kinda harkens back to the days of jim crow, and poll taxes - is that what you want?

be careful when you develop your ‘voting’ test, that you don’t set the bar too high for you, yourself, to pass.

either way, it matters little. like it or not, this is a democracy, where even the most hateful neocons, the most deluded commies, and the most ignorant dumbasses get a vote that counts.

Posted by: Diogenes at November 7, 2006 8:08 PM
Comment #193870

Election Theft Round-up

Posted by: Adrienne at November 7, 2006 8:28 PM
Comment #193872

No Chads, But Electronic Voting Glitches

Poll Workers Struggle With E-Ballots

Posted by: Adrienne at November 7, 2006 8:42 PM
Comment #193885

Dem literature inside polling station

Poll watcher being threatened

Posted by: Jack at November 7, 2006 9:45 PM
Comment #193891

… and if the Dems win, will you all still claim something was wrong with the voting?

Posted by: Jack at November 7, 2006 10:06 PM
Comment #193899

Jack:
“if the Dems win, will you all still claim something was wrong with the voting?”

America is voting on machines that can be easily hacked, have all kinds of glitches, and many have no paper trails. Is something wrong with this? Damn right there is! If Democrats win, I am hoping we can finally get some real focus on effective election reform — focus that isn’t all about rewarding voting machine companies simply because they supported the Republican Party, and the hell with whether what they’ve sold to We the People actually works, or is accountable or not.
I realize that you’ve never trusted or believed in my sincerity on this issue, but now perhaps you will see that it means more to me than simply seeing the Democrats win (much as you know I heartily welcome a win for the left). This is about ALL AMERICANS of ALL political stripes being able to vote, and of having that vote counted as correctly, accurately, and accountably as is possible. What has happened today informs us that we are a very, very long way from meeting that goal.
Maybe you’re tired of hearing me talk about this issue, but I’m afraid I will not be letting up on it — because our voting systems are just too chaotic. If the phrase “a government by and for the People” is to have any meaning at all, the viability of our votes is not something that can or should be ignored.

Posted by: Adrienne at November 7, 2006 10:45 PM
Comment #193924

—Adrienne— Looks like An army of Democrats came
out an over rode all those opsticals, Senate, House,
an Governors. (SWEET)

Posted by: -DAVID- at November 8, 2006 4:35 AM
Comment #193959

Linda H.: I am so glad I only use a cell phone. I had a Spratt campaigner (I live like a block away from the Spratt HQ in Rock Hill) stop by the house, but that was the end of my contact. It didnt’ escape my notice that virtually every neighborhood in RH was decorated with Spratt signs, and that the Norman ones were to be found in front of abandoned buildings, public right of ways, and outside check cashing joints. How nice that Spratt coasted to victory so handily…and now holds the Budget Committee’s gavel. How nice that Spratt won York County, where the democratic party doesn’t even have a listing in the phone book.

Regarding election fraud:

Am I the only one who thinks that both sides have a point here? YES, you should need ID to vote: our governor was turned away yesterday at his Sullivan’s Island precinct. This crap about people not being able to afford an ID is ridiculous; you can’t function in real life without one. Similarly, there should be a paper trail for every voting machine in the country. If there is nothing to hide, there should be nothing to fear.

On a general note, what a wonderful day for America! I might just have to go back and read all those stupid comments how the GOP would keep control because of the “robust” economy (how is this the new adjective for everything?) and the “silent majority” who support the war in Iraq.

Most of all, good riddance to Rick “Man-on-dog” Santorum.

Posted by: Jacob in SC at November 8, 2006 9:32 AM
Comment #194067
… and if the Dems win, will you all still claim something was wrong with the voting?

Surely you jest? Our election system is atrocious! From the electronic systems that are so easily hacked all the way to the fundamental problems of campaign fund raising and a two party system to begin with. Our nation’s election system is so far off track from the intentions of the founders of our country now it’s hardly recognizable.

It’s not a partisan issue, it’s a matter of saving our democracy for each and every one of us.

Posted by: Taylor at November 8, 2006 3:44 PM
Comment #194188

jack,

You’re certainly sounding very sour now that you people are about to be pounding the pavement, especially now that Webb is in. If I were a bigger person I’d try to say something more concilitory than “At least you still have Betty Bowers

The real question is “Will there be more subpeonas issued than Signing Statements?”

P.S. Weak links, btw. Big jump in the first video, I.e. no proof or even the slightest evidence that the handouts were in a polling station. The second video is just as bad, you can’t bring cameras into polling stations. That is intimidation by itself.

Posted by: Dave1-20-09 at November 8, 2006 11:55 PM
Comment #194449

The NRCC spent large amounts to defeat Tammy Duckworth. Someone I know in that district, received these robocalls daily. I could not understand why she was receiving these calls, but her last name is Goldberg.

Posted by: ohrealy at November 10, 2006 12:25 PM
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