Democrats & Liberals Archives

Did You Catch the "October Surprise"?

Believe it or not, we have been facing the “October surprise” for several weeks now. Democrats have been expecting it and looking everywhere for it and not finding it. Why not? They have been looking in all the wrong places. The “October surprise” is the drop in gasoline prices - courtesy of oil companies rooting for Republican dominance.

Some people were suspicious when the wildly zooming prices of gas suddenly started falling. Not Republicans, who started telling us that the falling gas prices were part of the excellent economy. Now, however, we have the results of a study by the nonprofit Foundation for Taxpayer and Consumer Rights, titled "Oil Companies' Record 3rd Quarter Profit Reports Omitted 'October Surprise' Profit Drop." The report tells us:

The recent sharp drop in gasoline prices from this year's record highs is steeper than the drop in the price of crude oil, indicating that refiners are taking less profit in order to push the retail price lower as the election approaches, said the nonprofit Foundation for Taxpayer and Consumer Rights (FTCR). It is a pattern that is also evident, though less sharply, in the autumn of the last two election years, 2002 and 2004.

Oil companies love the Republican administration and want to keep Republicans in power. After all, ExxonMobil earned about $10.5 billion in only 3 months. They earned it, you know, during the time when the gas price was high, over $3 a gallon. So, how much can it hurt to reduce prices for a while? It is a very small price to pay in order to keep Republicans, who love gas and oil companies, in power.

If you want cheap gas prices, better fill'er up before November 7. After that, regardless of the results of the election, gas prices will probably start inching up again. It will be disguised one way or another. However, you can be certain gas prices will go north.

Pretty neat "October surprise." Almost missed it. But like all the other Republican dirty tricks, it will not work. Americans know the economy has improved only for the rich. The economy for ordinary Americans is in the doldrums. If you want any improvement in the economy for all Americans, vote for Democrats.

Posted by Paul Siegel at October 31, 2006 4:48 PM
Comments
Comment #191938

Paul:

There is an easy test to your theory. We take the average cost of a gallon of gas now, and then compare it to the average cost of gallon each month for the next 3-4 months.

By your theory, the price should go up for November, December and January after having dropped artificially low.

The caveat to this exercise is to look at these months historically. Certain months have historical rate increase or decrease, so that would need to be factored into the equation.

Let’s find out if you are right. If you are, then congratulations on sniffing it out now. But…if you are incorrect, I’ll hope you are big enough to admit it.

Posted by: joebagodonuts at October 31, 2006 5:05 PM
Comment #191940

Ok, I know nothing about economics, so…
How does the price for a barrel of oil fit in here?
Are OPEC and others rooting for a Republican win also?

Posted by: kctim at October 31, 2006 5:09 PM
Comment #191944

joe, I was not aware this kind of drop at the pump was backed by seasonal or other cyclical factors. If you have any evidence supporting that I would like to see it.

Assuming legitimate market factors are not the cause, yes, we would expect a rather rapid increase after the elections are over. Although, that could be effected by whether or not the Democrats take over the House and Senate.

Posted by: Zeek at October 31, 2006 5:15 PM
Comment #191945

Paul, this canard has been soundly fisked in several places. Even NPR ran a story on how people think the market is being manipulated but it really isn’t.

Posted by: Wulf at October 31, 2006 5:18 PM
Comment #191948

Your right my friend, and it will work. Republicans will maintain control of both the House and the Senate. The “Silent Majority” does not want a bunch of Socialist Neo-Libs running our country, the proof is in the last few elections. Whether it be gas prices, the great economy, the Patriot act keeping our country safe, the war of democracy in Iraq, many thing point to a glorious Republican victory next week and for many years to come!

Posted by: Maxcroft Squire Muhldoon at October 31, 2006 5:20 PM
Comment #191952

The October surprise is John Kerry’s despicable, low, and demeaning insult to the highly educated young Ameicans fighting in Iraq. The real October surprise is his absolute refusal to apologize and taking a tactic from the Democratic play book, blaiming the Republicans for his remarks. John Kerry has no shame, no honor, no dignity, and no honesty. He should resign.

I will fix Mr. Kerry’s remarks. “If you study hard and do your homework you will succeed. If you don’t, you wil get stuck in the Democratic Party.

Posted by: Peter at October 31, 2006 5:26 PM
Comment #191954

Maxcroft, you are out of your mind. Anyone who is even casually paying attention knows the Republicans are in deep trouble. Gas prices aside, the economy, Patriot act and Iraq are exactly the reasons your GOP will be outsiders looking in on Nov 8th. And I for one can’t wait for the investigations, indictments and (fingers crossed) impeachment to start a-buzzing. Party’s over, time to pay the check.

Posted by: David S at October 31, 2006 5:29 PM
Comment #191965

David S: I don’t think Maxcroft is out of his mind. Maxcroft is a native from the State of Denial, aka, LaLa Land… you know, the guys who first wanted to stay the course but now don’t want to stay the course but who will again want to stay the couse come Nov. 8.

Posted by: Dr. Poshek at October 31, 2006 5:53 PM
Comment #191967

Anyone who thinks that gasoline prices are not influenced or even directly manipulated by the 2 or 3 (thanks to Repubs who approved mergers saying it ‘won’t hurt consumers’)humongous oil giants has their heads in the (oil) sand. Duh, refusing to build refining capacity on the excuse that environmental regulations make it impossible to get permits to me clearly demonstrates oil companies are manipulating gas prices by restricting the supply of finished product. About half the price of a gallon of gas depends on the price of crude. The rest is refining, transportation and profit. Paul is right, the greedy bastards will very willingly sacrifice a few billion in profit now for the hope and chance of even higher, more obscene profits in the future.

Steve

Posted by: Steve at October 31, 2006 5:55 PM
Comment #191970

Let’s examine lower gas prices. We have had no hurricanes even threaten off-shore drilling rigs, no closing of refinerys, the vacation driving season is over, the middle East is not in flames, the world “spot-market” price of crude is down, Russia, Canada, Mexico, and others are pumping furiously to obtain valuable American dollars for their treasury…and the best reason you can find for lower gas prices is a fix by Republicans. Geez…it is obvious that the folks who didn’t do well in school, that John Kerry Heinz was speaking about, are you…the liberal fruitcakes on this site. And, obviously oil products will go up in the winter heating season. Do any of you blathering liberals have any concept of the commodities market that operates world-wide. Those who buy and sell oil set the market price, and there are many millions of them all over the world, some are not even Republicans. Are any of you even slightly aware of the principle of supply and demand. Next time corn, soybeans or coffee takes a price increase I’ll blame Libs for casting a spell on the weather.

Posted by: Jim at October 31, 2006 6:09 PM
Comment #191971

Anyone with a half of a brain can tell you the party in power will do everything to stay the course ! What is interesting about this election are the people that stupid on the right ? They have an excuse for all the crooks and then some and a lot of people believe in no wrong.
How can they look at the death toll and all those injured service men and women and not see that all this is a bunch of crap . I guess that in the end we get what we deserve . On oil , life , crooks and all the rest . peach

Posted by: peach at October 31, 2006 6:11 PM
Comment #191978

I wonder if all those who are so hasty to “poo-poo” Pauls opinion have even bothered to read the link he provided? I’ve suspected gas price manipulations for some time, but in fairness, it’s only that: suspicion.

Consider though where the majority of Oil Co. political donations go:

http://www.opensecrets.org/industries/indus.asp?Ind=E01

Is that evidence of anything? No, but my suspicions remain.

Posted by: KansasDem at October 31, 2006 6:41 PM
Comment #191984

Well, it looks like the big oil companies have figured out which party is going to come out ahead in this election. The price is starting to go back up already. See http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061031/pl_nm/energy_election_gasoline_dc_1

Posted by: Ronnie at October 31, 2006 6:58 PM
Comment #191991

It amazes me how the Republicans forget how Bush made a joke at finding the WMD’s under chairs and tables at a dinner he was at.That was as low as you can go after our soldiers were loosing their lives. Now it’s a different story when Kerry says something. What a bunch of clowns, they are getting desperate and grasping at straws.

Posted by: Darlene at October 31, 2006 7:18 PM
Comment #191992
The October surprise is John Kerry’s despicable, low, and demeaning insult to the highly educated young Ameicans fighting in Iraq.

This is not true. John Kerry made a mistake and screwed up a good joke. What he said was, “You know, education, if you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. If you don’t, you get stuck in Iraq.”

What he was trying to say was, “Do you know where you end up if you don’t study, if you aren’t smart, if you’re intellectually lazy? You end up getting us stuck in a war in Iraq. Just ask President Bush.”

As a retired soldier with twenty years of service to my country I find it despicable that republicans would constantly go after our war heroes for their own political gain.

If republicans really cared about our soldiers, as they claim, they would get on with a plan to withdraw them from Iraq. There was not sufficient reason to invade that country in the first place. The blood of thousands of dead service members and hundreds of thousands of innocent men, women, and children are on the republican’s hands. It’s bush and the republicans running this country that are truly the evil of this world.

Posted by: Ronnie at October 31, 2006 7:21 PM
Comment #191994

Jim,

I am a very sucessful investor and moderate to liberal. The recent fluctuation of gas prices had absoulutely no relationship to the normal market forces. Only someone living in lala land could think that. One simple test is the profit percentages greater than 100%. duh!

Posted by: Frank at October 31, 2006 7:27 PM
Comment #192006

Ronnie

Well thenJohn Kerry must be an idiot. Bush did better in college than Kerry.

Not only that but if that was the case (a botched joke) wouldn’t the right thing have been to say, I’m sorry I did not mean to insult the brave men and woman in our military. Instead of saying that his words were taken out of context (which is tough to do when you have the recording).

The only botched joke was Kerry’s bid for the presidency.

Posted by: Keith at October 31, 2006 8:22 PM
Comment #192010

Jim, Frank, kctim, and Paul—

A portion of the drop in oil prices at the pump is the drop in price per barrel [normal market forces like weather, global politics, and seasonality].

However, there is a component that is easy to manipulate. The futures market. As speculators drive up the price of oil futures the price at the pump goes up faster than the price of crude—and visa versa. If large industrial investors decide to “take profits” the price will fall quickly. If you notice, the Dow just “happened” to really spike upward as the oil prices droped. This is due to large investors moving money out of the futures market and into the blue chip stocks. This will inflate stock prices. As smaller investors see the “strength” return to the stock market they will buy back in—but buy high. This will allow the institutional investors to “take profits” and repeat the cycle. We have seen this cycle for a while now—Dot.com bust, bond market, housing bubble, metals futures, oil futures, now back to stocks.

This ability for speculators to operate in the marketplace is actually fairly neccessary in our economy. They absorb some of the risk of doing business. For instance, if you want to sell your homemade organic orange juice it would be in your interest to lock in an agreed upon price at which you will be buying your oranges from the grower before any storms come and drive up your costs due to supply shortage. This allows you to not need to raise your prices. As a grower, you can lock in a price so that if the market is over supplied you don’t loose out. It is the futures traders that bear the risk of the price fluctuations as they “gamble” on the future price of the commodity. That said, as some of you might know—one who holds the big stack in a poker game can influence how those at the table play the hand.

Posted by: jrb at October 31, 2006 8:31 PM
Comment #192011

“The October surprise is John Kerry’s despicable, low, and demeaning insult to the highly educated young Ameicans fighting in Iraq.”

Peter,

Try the truth on for size:

http://capwiz.com/iava/bio/?id=298

Kerry ranks a B in his support of the troops with the Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America.

You can see how your favorite Republican ranks here: http://capwiz.com/iava/dbq/officials/

“No Senator in either party was given an A grade by IAVA. Thirteen Senators received a rating of A- and all of those were Democrats. A total of 23 Senators were given a B+ rating and 22 of those were Democrats as well. The other was Independent James Jeffords of Vermont, who caucuses with the Democrats.”

“the worst grade received by a Senate Democrat was higher than the best grade granted a Republican.”

Many thanks to Bob Geiger.

http://bobgeiger.blogspot.com/2006/10/vets-group-proves-gop-does-not-support.html

Posted by: KansasDem at October 31, 2006 8:32 PM
Comment #192017

keith,

Being a veteran myself I was not offended by Kerry’s comments. It seems to me that people who defend “the troops” aren’t really looking out for “the troops” because if they were they would be trying to get them out of harms way. I’ll tell you who offends me, Bush and his administration and their carelessness with American lives. Another point, none of those conservative hawks have ever served! Maybe they wouldn’t have been so quick to commit our troops if they had.

Posted by: lefty at October 31, 2006 9:00 PM
Comment #192020

KansasDem,

Thank you for the links.

Posted by: jrb at October 31, 2006 9:03 PM
Comment #192027

Eh-h-h, I hate to tell you but the October non-surprise (considering the source) surprise is the single-handed self-destruction of the Democrat Party by no one less than Senator John Kerry and his disdain and disrespect for the American military, once again.

Kerry reflects the underlying position of the Democrat Party leadership.

Kerry was unfit decades ago. Kerry is unfit today. Kerry is unfit. Period.

Posted by: n.pike at October 31, 2006 9:34 PM
Comment #192036

n, pike

So I guess you would rather support people that are supposedly fit, but too cowardly to go. One that touts how great our military is, but when given the chance (Bush, Cheney) to put their money where there mouth is choose not to participate. The fact that John Kerry was shot defending our nation isn’t enough for you. I guess you feel that being a greedy politician who has never, ever had to sacrifice one single thing for this nation is more fit and deserving of our respect than those that have. Oh wait isn’t that the overlying positon of the neocon party.

Posted by: Jim at October 31, 2006 10:08 PM
Comment #192039

Kerry’s comment:
“You know, education, if you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. If you don’t, you get stuck in Iraq,”

He was talking about the idiot we’ve got for a president.

The Idiot we’ve got for a president:

“The senator’s suggestion that the men and women of our military are somehow uneducated is insulting and it is shameful. The members of the United States Military are plenty smart, and they are plenty brave, and the Senator from Massachusetts owes them an apology.”

Tony Snowjob:
“What Senator Kerry ought to do first is apologize to the troops. The clear implication here is, if you flunk out, if you don’t study hard, if you don’t do your homework, if you don’t make an effort to be smart, and you don’t do well you, quote, ‘Get stuck in Iraq,’”

Kerry’s rebutal — far better than the joke!!!:

“This is a classic GOP textbook Republican campaign tactic. I’m sick and tired of a bunch of despicable Republicans who will not debate real policy, who won’t take responsibility for their own mistakes.”

From a statement Kerry released:
“If anyone thinks a veteran would criticize the more than 140,000 heroes serving in Iraq, and not the president who got us stuck there, they’re crazy.”

“I’m sick and tired of these despicable Republican attacks that always seem to come from those who never can be found to serve in war, but love to attack those who did.”

“I’m not going to be lectured by a stuffed suit White House mouthpiece standing behind a podium, or doughy Rush Limbaugh, who no doubt today will take a break from belittling Michael J. Fox’s Parkinson’s disease to start lying about me just as they have lied about Iraq.”

“It disgusts me that these Republican hacks, who have never worn the uniform of our country lie and distort so blatantly and carelessly about those who have.”

“These Republicans are afraid to debate veterans who live and breathe the concerns of our troops, not the empty slogans of an Administration that sent our brave troops to war without body armor.”

“Bottom line, these Republicans want to debate straw men because they’re afraid to debate real men. And this time it won’t work because we’re going to stay in their face with the truth and deny them even a sliver of light for their distortions.”

“No Democrat will be bullied by an administration that has a cut and run policy in Afghanistan and a stand still and lose strategy in Iraq.”

Posted by: Adrienne at October 31, 2006 10:10 PM
Comment #192040

About half the price of a gallon of gas depends on the price of crude. The rest is refining, transportation and profit.

Ah, you’re buying gas on the Indian Reservation, aren’t you? That tax-free gas is a good deal. Too bad most of us don’t have access.

Posted by: Wulf at October 31, 2006 10:12 PM
Comment #192044
Kerry was unfit decades ago. Kerry is unfit today. Kerry is unfit. Period.

Kerry is a decorated war hero and should be honored as one. Is this how you support our troops? Kerry’s comments do not offend me at all.

Ronnie Wright
U.S. Army Ret.

Posted by: Ronnie at October 31, 2006 10:20 PM
Comment #192045

Adrienne,
I loved Kerry’s reply, too. I’m glad somebody grew a backbone.

Posted by: Brian Poole at October 31, 2006 10:22 PM
Comment #192046

Adrienne

How foolish of us to think that John Kerry would trash the military.

…I am not here as John Kerry. I am here as one member of the group of 1,000 which is a small representation of a very much larger group of veterans in this country, and were it possible for all of them to sit at this table they would be here and have the same kind of testimony….


WINTER SOLDIER INVESTIGATION

I would like to talk, representing all those veterans, and say that several months ago in Detroit, we had an investigation at which over 150 honorably discharged and many very highly decorated veterans testified to war crimes committed in Southeast Asia, not isolated incidents but crimes committed on a day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command….

They told the stories at times they had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam in addition to the normal ravage of war, and the normal and very particular ravaging which is done by the applied bombing power of this country.

We call this investigation the “Winter Soldier Investigation.” The term “Winter Soldier” is a play on words of Thomas Paine in 1776 when he spoke of the Sunshine Patriot and summertime soldiers who deserted at Valley Forge because the going was rough.

We who have come here to Washington have come here because we f eel we have to be winter soldiers now. We could come back to this country; we could be quiet; we could hold our silence; we could not tell what went on in Vietnam, but we feel because of what threatens this country, the fact that the crimes threaten it, not reds, and not redcoats but the crimes which we are committing that threaten it, that we have to speak

Posted by: Keith at October 31, 2006 10:24 PM
Comment #192048

Nice try, KansasDem. I did a little investigating of the Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America that provided these grades of our senators. I thought it was funny that all the senators that received high grades were democrats - that simply doesn’t pass the sniff test. (Not that the best grades should have gone to republicans, but they probably shouldn’t be so one-sided.)

First, the IAVA based their grades on how senators voted on legislation compared to the IAVA position on the legislation. The IAVA opinion must correspond pretty closely to democratic opinion for the grades to be so lopsided.

Second, the executive director of IAVA, Paul Rieckhoff, gave the Democratic radio address to the Nation on April 30, 2004, and has frequently been critical of George Bush and the war in Iraq.

I’m not saying the folks at IAVA haven’t served this country well, and don’t deserve to have an opinion, I’m just saying before you call something the truth you need to consider the source and examine it first.

Posted by: nchoosier at October 31, 2006 10:28 PM
Comment #192049

Adrienne,

Kerry did pick a hell of a poor time for a “bungle”. I’d like to see some outrage over letting Maliki order our troops out of Sadr City. We still have a man missing there!

We clearly now have 140,000 American troops at the beck-n-call of someone who bristles at any US criticism. Something is really, really wrong with this picture.

Posted by: KansasDem at October 31, 2006 10:31 PM
Comment #192056

Keith,

Thanks for pointing out that Kerry was brave enough to take an unpopular position and speak the truth.

Posted by: KansasDem at October 31, 2006 10:42 PM
Comment #192059

KansasDem

What truth?

Not one thing he said was ever shown to be true

Posted by: Keith at October 31, 2006 10:49 PM
Comment #192066

I appreciated Kieth Olberman’s comments tonight. I’m not quoting exactly but words to the effect that GW is..um..having a hard time understanding that Kerry was saying if you don’t work hard and do good in school you make dumb decisions and get stuck in Iraq. Hopefully the right wing talking heads will pick up on this and come to comprehend the target of Kerry’s barb.
(It was not the troops.)

BTW for the last couple of months, I have been referring to the falling gasoline prices as the Pre Election Day Fire Sale On Gasoline. I may have it wrong too, but if it walks like a duck, and talks like a duck….

Posted by: keepinon at October 31, 2006 11:06 PM
Comment #192068

Eric Herzberg, Jr., of Severna Park, Maryland. Herzberg, 20, a proud Marine, was killed in Iraq 10 days ago. He was buried today at Arlington National Cemetery.

Eric’s father shared this tribute to his son:

“I’m Eric Herzberg, Lance Corporal Eric Herzberg’s father. Thank you all for coming here to honor Eric, especially those of you who traveled great distances. We are humbled by the show of support and love for our son.

I would especially like to thank Kevin Kavanagh for being here today. Kevin’s son, also named Eric, also 20 years old and also from Severna Park, was also killed in Iraq last month. Kevin has been a tremendous source of support this week.

We are here to pay our last respects and to honor Eric. The word “honorable” has at least 10 different meanings in the dictionary. I think almost all of them fit Eric but this one is my favorite:

A keen sense of ethical conduct: INTEGRITY. Describing one whose word, once given, is a guarantee of performance.

We received the news of our sons’ death with shock and then uncontrollable grief. We’ve cried for him many times each day, at the most unexpected thoughts or memories. Eric, when I think of why we cry so hard for you—

It’s not because you are in pain. We know that now you are at peace now.

It’s not because you were unprotected and alone when you died. Not only were you with your friends, your brothers, but you had legions from across America praying for you.

We cry for you not because you were unprepared. You had the best training in the world, the best equipment, and the best leadership. And you prepared yourself by deepening your relationship with the Lord who made you. I believe you knew how temporary this world is and you prepared yourself for the next world by reading His word every night.

And we certainly don’t cry because we think of you as a victim. The victims right at this moment are us—your friends and family, particularly your mother Gina, your sister Katie and your brother and best friend Matthew. We feel almost immobilized with grief right now - but we know you would not want us to remain in this state too long. We know that you want us to continue to serve others as you did.

No, we don’t cry for you because of those things.

We cry for you because of the huge sense of loss we feel, which is also felt by our community of family and friends. And we grieve because of all those whose lives you now won’t touch here on earth. Eric, we all needed your presence here. Today we feel that sense of loss for what you won’t accomplish on this earth.

Yet still, through all this, we remember the Marine with compassion who turned thoughts of hate and division into love, affection and unity—one Iraqi at a time.

We remember the son who always spoke the truth, and can help heal wounds—even those within his own family.

We remember the friend who is always loyal and faithful.

And the spiritual warrior who never shied away from necessary battles but always brought his faith and humanity with him.

Eric, we cry because we know you would have been a dad who would have raised kids just like you.

Yes, we came here to honor you, Eric, but we had it all backwards. It is you who have honored us. We feel honored just to have known you as long as we did, and to have seen the example of your life. You were tested under the most trying of circumstances and your character, integrity and never went unnoticed.

“Blessed is the man who endures temptation, for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life, which the Lord promised to those who love him.” James 1:12

I know you are wearing it well son. Goodbye for now. We love you.”
_____________________________________________________
If only John Kerry had integrity.

Posted by: Keith at October 31, 2006 11:07 PM
Comment #192069

Keith, was anything Kerry said during this speech proven to be a lie?

Posted by: j2t2 at October 31, 2006 11:08 PM
Comment #192072

j2t2
To what are your referring?

Posted by: Keith at October 31, 2006 11:13 PM
Comment #192076

Vietnam atrocities revealed in report
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2003/10/20/vietnam_atrocities_revealed_in_report_boston_globe/?page=1

This Is Rumor Control Interview: Tiger Force Soldiers Speak, Part I
http://www.thisisrumorcontrol.org/node/2281

I could go on but I assume you can get on the internets and use the google.

Posted by: KansasDem at October 31, 2006 11:20 PM
Comment #192077

October Surprise happen today…..Kerry gave you all the surprise and I have got to say…no surpise to me…

Posted by: Mattie Young at October 31, 2006 11:23 PM
Comment #192079

kansasdem

We’ll just have to see what comes out in the trial, won’t we?

VVLF: Veterans Sue Kerry Associates

Posted by: Keith at October 31, 2006 11:29 PM
Comment #192082

to the Kerry commenters, like Peter:

Today in Iraq our President and our Defense Secretary (who claimed he knew nothing of it) and the American military abandoned a U.S. soldier taken hostage by removing check points and withdrawing troops, therefor caving into the Shiite militias and its murderous leaders who have consistently killed our brave U.S. soldiers

now who supports the troops? there’s a reason kerry was the story and all bush did was travel back in time to 04, its b/c 06 is killing the GOP! I hope we get people with real backbone in Congress, not a bunch of enriched, entrenched Republicans who say one thing but then do the other ala Mission Accomplished, Healthy Forrest, Clear skies, etc. They can give themselves pay raises 4 times over for incompetence but can’t raise the minimum wage? Go figure.

Posted by: g_remedy at October 31, 2006 11:34 PM
Comment #192083

So exactly when are the Bush twins going to inlist? Now that would show respect for the troops and I bet their unit would get all the armor they needed. Oh,they might be targeted. Gee,seems to me all our sons and daughters in iraq are being targeted.

Some great news for Republicans though.Special arrangements have been made for them to vote on Nov.8th so they do not have to assosiate with all those nigger loving communist queers and illegal aliens that,as we all know,comprise the democratic party.So mark your calenders.

Posted by: BillS at October 31, 2006 11:38 PM
Comment #192087

g-remedy,

Exactly! The Republican’ts don’t give a hoot about the everyday man, woman. But they will sure be happy to send you to Iraq. They make the economy so bad that the military is an only option for some folks (mostly poor folks)and then send our men and women over there to die for nothing. Remember when they said we were going over there because they had WMD’s and then when none were found they chose another lie,”We are over here to spread democracy”. I don’t see us trying to “spread democracy” in the Sudan or anywhere else for that matter. Dick Cheney’s daughter is man enough why isn’t she toting a M-16 in Iraq? Or better yet the drunk Bush twins. God forbid!!

Posted by: lefty at November 1, 2006 12:06 AM
Comment #192089

I think sending them off to Iraq is a good idea.They will both come home in body bags,then Chimpy will be crying over their bodies.Plus we will not have deal with any more of them coke snorting Bushes.

Posted by: thelibertine at November 1, 2006 12:30 AM
Comment #192092

lefty, thelibertine, bills

You people are f——ed up in the head.

Posted by: Keith at November 1, 2006 12:44 AM
Comment #192099

Brian, me too. I’m all for growing backbones on every Democrat.

Kansas Dem:
“Kerry did pick a hell of a poor time for a “bungle”.”

I don’t see it that way at all, KD. The gaff turned into an opportunity to open a can of whupp-ass and say some things that really do need saying.

“I’d like to see some outrage over letting Maliki order our troops out of Sadr City. We still have a man missing there!”

I know, and I think it stinks. :^(

Keith, I love Kerry’s Winter Soldier speech. He needs to return to eloquently speaking the truth as he sees it. If he did, he’d then become a true elder statesman.
This is actually what every Democrat needs to do — fearlessly.

Posted by: Adrienne at November 1, 2006 1:12 AM
Comment #192100

We always seem to find a way to keep the children of the wealthy and powerful out of military service. Its as American as apple pie.During the Vietnam war,for example, there were college deferments or if all else failed there was national gard postings if you had the right strings to pull.Now many of our troops signed up for help with college so it works automatically. Rich kids do not need that help. There have been a few notable exceptions. John Kerry was one of them. There are others.In WW2 there was JFK and GHB,both of whom could have gotten out of service, but for the most part it is the sons and daughters of working class people that do the sacrificing. Under this regime the wealthy are even passing the cost of the war onto the working class with massive tax breaks for the rich. Enough is enough.
During the Civil War one could avoid the draft by paying someone else to serve. Maybe not such a bad idea. At least a guy could make a buck.How about in exchange for the tax breaks the rich have to take on the responsibility of college tuition,a home,and medical care for one soldier for every one of their children that is not serving?

nchoosier: Your logic is odd. So the IAVA has no credibility because they support members of the party that is better on veterans issues? Perhaps if you beleive veterans issues are important you might consider doing the same.

Posted by: BillS at November 1, 2006 1:27 AM
Comment #192115

I’m amazed at how powerful and influential these idiot Republicans are. Apparantly they are responsible for every bad thing that happens in the world, hurricane damage, etc, and can single handedly control gas prices to their advantage, improve the economy in order to win elections. I tell you what, if the democrats can run the economy and the stock market into the toilet and increase gas prices so that I can’t afford to drive my kids to school. I’ll vote for them. Make sense?

Posted by: cd at November 1, 2006 7:18 AM
Comment #192121

BillS - if a group of republican vets published grades of the senators, and republican senators received passing grades while democrats failed, what would you think of the grading system? Exactly.

Posted by: nchoosier at November 1, 2006 8:02 AM
Comment #192133

You people do not get it…

Kerry screwed up…(joke or no joke)
He should have immediately apologized.

He single handedly energized the Republican party. If you do not take both houses it is Kerry’s fault.

Kerry must have had a Republican speech writer, because the timing was perfect. I do hope all the Democrats come to his rescue like you are all doing and defend him. It will be the best thing that ever happened to the Republicans since 1994.

You all should know by now that perception is reality. The facts do not matter. That has been quite evident since 9/11 (on both sides of the political aisle).

Posted by: discerner at November 1, 2006 8:37 AM
Comment #192138

Keith,
I was referring to your winter solider posting of 10:24 pm. It was a long time ago but I dont remember VVAW being criticized for lying, they were criticized for opposing the war. There was denials regarding the atrocities claimed but I dont remember any investigations that cleared the issue in favor of either side.

Posted by: j2t2 at November 1, 2006 8:50 AM
Comment #192155
I hate to tell you but the October non-surprise (considering the source) surprise is the single-handed self-destruction of the Democrat Party by no one less than Senator John Kerry and his disdain and disrespect for the American military, once again.

I guess you don’t know that Bush was a history major at Yale? That he was a “C” student? That Bush obviously didn’t learn any history, that’s why this country is in such dire straits in Iraq? You aren’t aware of the truism that “those who don’t learn from history are doomed to repeat it”??

Kerry said nothing about the troops…that’s in your own mind…it says something about you. Do you know what it is??

Kerry soundly and clearly criticized the “president” of the US, George W. Bush…the fact that so many interpret this to mean he was criticizing the troops says more about the people doing the criticizing than it does about Kerry.

Posted by: Lynne at November 1, 2006 9:30 AM
Comment #192169

You libs slay me. You love playing with words. is is depends what you mean by alone. Kerry is consitent in his remarks about the military. He critised them when he got out of Viet Nam He said they terrorize woman and children in the middle of the night, and now he says you gotta be bumb to be in the military. Main stream America gets it but you libs dont have a clue. As far as Kerrys record in Viet Nam give me a break how do you get three purple hearts in 3 months and not spend one day in the hospital.

Posted by: Thomas at November 1, 2006 10:03 AM
Comment #192174
Kerry is consitent in his remarks about the military. He critised them when he got out of Viet Nam He said they terrorize woman and children in the middle of the night, and now he says you gotta be bumb to be in the military.

Kerry testified before a Congressional hearing during the Vietnam Conflict about the atrocities the troops were committing…that’s not criticizing, that’s telling the truth before a committee investigating wartime atrocities…and he said nothing about the troops…that’s your interpretation (so one would wonder what’s in your mind!)…he was criticizing our uneducated president…it’s so obvious that Bush, the Yale history major, knows no history or he wouldn’t have pushed for this quagmire in Iraq.

Posted by: Lynne at November 1, 2006 10:07 AM
Comment #192185

Lynne,

How about Kerry’s history grades:

The transcript shows that Kerry’s freshman-year average was 71. He scored a 61 in geology, a 63 and 68 in two history classes, and a 69 in political science. His top score was a 79, in another political science course. Another of his strongest efforts, a 77, came in French class

Under Yale’s grading system in effect at the time, grades between 90 and 100 equaled an A, 80-89 a B, 70-79 a C, 60 to 69 a D, and anything below that was a failing grade. In addition to Kerry’s four D’s in his freshman year, he received one D in his sophomore year. He did not fail any courses.

”I always told my Dad that D stood for distinction,” Kerry said yesterday…

See http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2005/06/07/yale_grades_portray_kerry_as_a_lackluster_student/ for the complete facts.

Posted by: Rob at November 1, 2006 10:32 AM
Comment #192201

Lynne did you know that Bush had better grades then Kerry? Lynne please explain to me how Kerry gets three purple hearts in three months without spending one day in the hospital. I wonder if he knew that three purple hearts got you out of Viet Nam.

Posted by: Thomas at November 1, 2006 11:08 AM
Comment #192205

nchoosier: OK I’ll bite. First find me a group of Republican vets that support cuts in veterans funding so rich people can have more tax cuts and I’ll let you know what I think about them.


Apoligies. My partisan hackles are up.There is much to admire in real conservative thought. Hard work, self-reliance and respect for individual rights and integrity. This country needs those values. One must be in a state of denial to believe that the current Rep leadership can hold both houses of congress legitimately after the midterm. So then what for the Reps. It is my fervant hope that the genuine conservatives take back their party from the neo-con corporate shills that have stolen it. A good model/precedant is the rise of the Bull Moose faction under Teddy Rosavelt. Time for you guys to take out the trash.

Posted by: BillS at November 1, 2006 11:21 AM
Comment #192207

BillS,

I would generally agree with you.

However, I will not put my country in jeopardy by voting democrat to “teach the republicans” a lesson. It is simply not worth the risk. It is the old two evils scenario.

Posted by: discerner at November 1, 2006 11:25 AM
Comment #192215

To all of you who think only the poor and the stupid are enlisting in the military.

Who Bears the Burden? Demographic Characteristics of U.S. Military Recruits Before and After 9/11

Posted by: Keith at November 1, 2006 11:37 AM
Comment #192231

Discerner: As to wether the Dems would put the countries security at risk there is considerable debate. Many,including myself have concluded that the current regime has put us more at risk. You may disagree but there is certainly grounds for concern.One of them is the failure of the current Rep leadership to fully implement the recomendations of the 9/11 Commission. Doing so is a top priority of the House Dem leadership. Also Murtha’s suggestion of over the horizon deployment of US troops in Iraq is not only logical but appears to be what is being sought by the Iraqi government.What ever direction we take it is also clear that the current Rep leadership has made many,many tragic mistakes in Iraq.Please remember that the Dems are also the party of FDR and JFK and although perhaps overly cautious in matters of war,that tradition runs strong in our party. Vote how you will but basing your choice on fear is not valid.
I am responding to you and others like nchoosier because A. I have the time and B. because having read some of you post I recognize that you are not Rush/Coulter dittoheads like so many right wingers trolls that post here and your opinions deserv respect. Thank you

Posted by: BillS at November 1, 2006 12:09 PM
Comment #192244

BillS - thanks for the thoughtful response. I think that, though we may disagree on which party is better suited to lead this country and the state of the Iraq war, we can all agree that we will all be better off if we have more balance and utilize the ideas and abilities of people from both sides of the aisle. I post here because I would rather banter with you all and exchange ideas than to read the blogs on the other side.

That said, you missed my point on the IAVA grades. The IAVA’s opinion is valid and deserves credibility. But it is just that, an opinion, and not necessarily “truth” like KansasDem initially said.

Posted by: nchoosier at November 1, 2006 12:31 PM
Comment #192245

Kieth: Thanks for the link. No one is saying our troops are stupid. What those stats do show is that most of our troops come from working class families and access to higher education is more difficult for them. Many joined for,among other reasons, to help gain access to college. This is not a consideration for the children of the wealthy. They expect it as a birth right. Personally I will put the intelligence and can do abilities of working class kids up against the spoiled brats of the rich any time.

Posted by: BillS at November 1, 2006 12:31 PM
Comment #192266

Thomas:

I got better grades than Bush, too…and I didn’t bankrupt any businesses…

Posted by: Lynne at November 1, 2006 1:05 PM
Comment #192272

My Goodness….read this blog….and then tell me why so many believe the Democratic Party is made of the so rich they have no idea and the ignorant.

Posted by: P.J. Y. at November 1, 2006 1:20 PM
Comment #192286

BillS,

You and I both know that FDR and JFK would roll over in their graves if they knew how the Democrats and the Republicans have changed. It is a moot point.

The bulk of the 911 commissions recommendations are in play. There are discrepancies on the implementation and deployment.

I have NO fear, Never had, Never will, I do not care who is in power. Are YOU afraid? It sounds like it…

What will it mean if you do not get both houses? (BTW The average pickup of seats in a midterm election for the party out of power for a 2nd term President is 44.)

Posted by: Discerner at November 1, 2006 1:48 PM
Comment #192287

It’s amazing! I write an article about cheaper gas prices, and suddenly we’re talking about Kerry. Republicans are so skillful at changing the subject that they are not even aware that they are doing it.

Posted by: Paul Siegel at November 1, 2006 1:49 PM
Comment #192310

Paul-

I wondered if anyone was ever going to point that out.

Posted by: jrb at November 1, 2006 2:34 PM
Comment #192327

P.J. Y-

“My Goodness….read this blog….and then tell me why so many believe the Democratic Party is made of the so rich they have no idea and the ignorant.”

I read it. Now prey tell me, fellow conservative, what the hell you are talking about? The only ignorance I have seen are the folks who claim to know all about market forces effecting gas prices but avoid talking about the unregulated mergers, exploitation of the tax code, opening up the futures and commodities markets to institutional investors, etc. All these things had a direct causal relationship to rising gas prices, and they were all avoidable at the governmental level. This administration and congress refuses to enforce our laws or close obvious loopholes.

So how is it that these republicans who blindly support this administration with useless reality-free general statements about a “free market” somehow avoid your wrath and labels of “so rich they have no idea and the ignorant”?

Posted by: Kevin23 at November 1, 2006 2:58 PM
Comment #192330

Kerry bungled a joke. Bush bungled a war. What’s worse?

Posted by: Bearz at November 1, 2006 3:01 PM
Comment #192337

yep -youre so right. i had that one figured out weeks ago. ive also planned on filling up on the day before elections . ive told others about this scenario playing out and advised them to do the same. anyone that cant see through that one needs some real friggin help or theyre on the ignorance is bliss train!. wake up and smell the coffee - itd be real good for a survival tactic. guess im really surprised theres so many ignorants out there or they just dont want to admit whats really going on. thanx for the confirmation.-paul.

Posted by: paul at November 1, 2006 3:10 PM
Comment #192340

Discerner: I am not so sure FDR and JFK would roll over but I am sure Ike would, especially at this regimes erosion of habeas corpus and attacks on SS,not to mention a poorly planned and executed forign war. The ascension of the military-industrial complex he so eloquently warned us of has come to full power under Bushes leadership.

Paul: Please forgive my wanderings. Of course lower gas prices are part of the attempted fix. Did you read yesterday where the feds are abondoning their attempt to collect back royalties from them. Another little payoff we taxpayers get to cover. We are all in for a f*****g after the election,no matter who wins.

Posted by: BillS at November 1, 2006 3:17 PM
Comment #192342

kevin23,

The only ignorance I have seen are the folks who claim to know all about market forces effecting gas prices but avoid talking about the unregulated mergers, exploitation of the tax code, opening up the futures and commodities markets to institutional investors, etc.

Care to elaborate?

Posted by: jrb at November 1, 2006 3:19 PM
Comment #192367

Come on BillS…Do you really believe what you wrote? Neither party is the same…they both have become more liberal and amoral through time.

We’ll see what the voters truly think next week.
If the Dems do not get both houses, they will have a lot to rethink about who they are and what they are really saying.

Posted by: Discerner at November 1, 2006 4:18 PM
Comment #192421

I think Discerner is an authoritarian dip shit.Thomas was playing with his G.I Joe dolls,while John Kerry was being shot at.

Posted by: thelibertine at November 1, 2006 6:36 PM
Comment #192422

I don’t know about anyone else, but after “enjoying” a few weeks of “lower” gas prices they went up here in PA .11 cents in less than 5 hours. But it takes weeks and even months for them to drop down. Go figure, if thats not manipulating the prices for someones own good I don’t know what the hell is. As for Kerry’s mistake, that’s one in the face of how many by the repugs. My parents always taught me if you haven’t walked in someone else’s shoes don’t think you know what they went or are going through. As far as the repugs not serving our country they should be the ones apologising to our military for putting them in harms way without having the guts to do it themselves.

Posted by: Sherri at November 1, 2006 6:36 PM
Comment #192451

>>

Interesting. Prices went down 11 cents overnight here - SE Texas. From 1.99 to 1.88. Makes since, however. Exxon can’t maintain recordbreaking profits if everybody in the country gets a break.

We can’t accuse oil co’s of being stupid. That’s pretty darn intelligent, sneaky, but intelligent.

Oh, sorry, I got off subject. Bush sympathizers twisted the initial subject once again. Go Kerry. You can make a lot more stupid remarks before you get near catching up with Bush’s stupid remarks, complete with banners, “MISSION ACCOMPLISHED”. Or my very favorite, “We were welcomed by the Iraqis; it just wasn’t a peaceful welcome.” Duh, ya think, Dubya?

Posted by: Scott at November 1, 2006 7:43 PM
Comment #192493

Discerner: I certainly do believe what I wrote. Actually there is a great deal of evidence that the national discorse has move furthur to the right over the last several years. Case in point:The conservative Nixon proposed a national health care plan nearly identical to the Clinton proposal that was attacked in some quarters as Marxist.Another : Goldwater was pro-choice.
When you say more “liberal “It is necessary to define your terms. May I suggest you go to the source and look up the political connotation in a dictioary. You may be surprised.

Posted by: BillS at November 1, 2006 8:55 PM
Comment #192505

That’s very interesting Scott, we haven’t seen gas lower than 2.08 since before summer here, when the “peak” travel season began, it’s 2.19 in most places here. It would be nice to have it below 2.00 again. Geeaazzz I wonder why Tx gets to be so lucky, maybe because it’s Bush’s home state. But I don’t know that for sure so I shouldn’t speculate.

Posted by: Sherri at November 1, 2006 9:23 PM
Comment #192517

Sherri-

In California, where I live, it has just dipped under $2.48 [and people are happy]. Over the summer it cost me over $95 to fill my gas tank.

Posted by: jrb at November 1, 2006 9:34 PM
Comment #192557

“We’ll just have to see what comes out in the trial, won’t we?

VVLF: Veterans Sue Kerry Associates”

Keith,

The outcome of that suit won’t prove diddly squat. It has to do with whether or not Kerry and Assoc. had the legal right to block their propoganda. The outcome would have nothing to do with whether or not atrocities occured in Nam.

Just as a talking point, are you aware that Don Rumsfeld ended the first investigation into the allegations against Tiger Force when he assumed the Secretary of Defense position under President Ford?

The investigation has been reopened since then and is still supposedly under review. Do you find it odd that Rummy seems to stifle these investigations or that the blame always falls on the “grunts”?

The whole Abu Ghraib thing happened without any knowledge of the commanders right?

The Southern Poverty Law Center has contacted the Pentagon about known white supremacists joining the military and had no response. Neo-nazi graffitti is showing up in Iraq!

I just don’t get it. I guess if you deny there is a problem the problem should just go away.

Posted by: KansasDem at November 1, 2006 11:48 PM
Comment #192576

Thanks for this reality check!

I did similar analysis last week … and concluded that your belief in whether this is natural or artificial probably attests to your cynicism.

Posted by: Kathy at November 2, 2006 12:22 AM
Comment #194041

Dear Keith,

You might add, of the thousands of politicians and operatives in D.C., none of these clowns lost a son or daughter to the insane war.

d. sartin

Posted by: d. sartin at November 8, 2006 2:09 PM
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