Democrats & Liberals Archives

Take Back Our Party, Take Back Our Country

The partnership of Evangelicals and Big Business at first seems like a strange combination. On second thought, it is the perfect marriage of money, power, and absolute ideology.

What is more powerful than God, Inc.? The power of the people! The Republican Party is too far-gone to rescue from the special interests. The only chance the people have of taking back the country is to take back the Party of the People.

Republican-lite, as it is lovingly known, has been taken over by a group of leaders who don't have the balls to stand-up for what they stand for. Harry Reid? Nancy Pelosi? Please!

What the Democrats need are people willing to take a firm stand for the people. Too bad the Pseudo-Moral Police are in charge; otherwise, we could just clone Russ Feingold.

This election cycle we will have the opportunity to make big strides towards reshaping the Party of the People. Of course, the voters of Connecticut will have the opportunity to send a big message to the Democratic leadership, as well as make a change in the party.

There are also 31 Fighting Dems, so far, who have made it through the primary process and will be on the November ballot. You can see who they are here.

Of course, we have seen opposition to this rebuilding from the Democratic leadership. The biggest disappointment this election cycle has been the withdrawal of Paul Hackett from the Ohio Senate race. To me, Paul represented the direction the Democratic Party should be heading. Maybe, he will still win with a write-in vote ... I can dream, can't I?

No matter what you think of Howard Dean, he has been a big catalyst in rebuilding the Party of the People. He has been a driving force for the grassroots and instituted the controversial 50-state strategy. Some argue that Dean is wasting campaign dollars on races that are un-winnable. That may be so this election cycle, but that attention at the local level will pay off in the future by bringing the people back into the fold.

Howard Dean has realized the power of the net in rebuilding the Party of the People.

A recent 50-state strategy campaign fundraiser, over the net, set a goal of 5000 donations over a two-week period. At the end of the two-weeks, 20,744 donations had been made, over 4 times the original goal. Some may find Dean crass and offensive, but the netroots really like him.

The people are tired of being ignored, but until we take control of one of the political parties, we will be relegated to obscurity.

Posted by JayJay Snow at July 13, 2006 11:45 PM
Comments
Comment #167424

JayJay,

We’re not done yet. You know Hackett came out in support of his Democratic opponent recently.

On a state by state basis we do have some good candidates getting out there. I don’t know how successful we’ll be but we can’t give up.

I would say it’s absolutely time to be Democrats again. Give the working class something to believe in and DELIVER.

We must and we will if we get loud and get proud. Somehow too many Democrats have adopted an apologetic tone. Why? We have nothing to apologize for.

Be loud and be proud. We just might save the USA.

KansasDem

Posted by: KansasDem at July 14, 2006 1:25 AM
Comment #167433

Exactly!!! The only one who should be appologizing is the village idiot from Crawford, TexASS… but we all that AIN’T GONNA HAPPEN!!!

Why do we as dems need to appologize? We didn’t vote for these big-business-neocon-bigotted-biblethumping-boneheads!!!???

The repugnants made there bed and now they have to find some way to blame it all on Bill Clinton… but they can’t, since it’s now been 8 freakin’ years with these YAHOOS in charge in all branches of the GOVT!!!

Give uber-goober Karl Rove sometime and he’ll come up with some lameass way to connect it back to Bill somehow, at least well enough to make believers out of the big-business-neocon-bigotted-biblethumping-boneheads!!!

What sheepel!!

Posted by: Dave in NorCal at July 14, 2006 2:25 AM
Comment #167440

Interesting ideas guys, to expand the Democratic platform beyond “I hate Bush” to include:
- I hate Business
- I hate Christians
- I hate “TexASS”

THAT’S what I call a ‘Big Tent’ party.

I hope I don’t sound too practical here, but how about instead focussing on what Democrats would *do*?

Posted by: Brian at July 14, 2006 4:02 AM
Comment #167447

Brian
Check out JayJay’s link and see where a large chunk of the “Fighting Dems” are from, it’s Texas and that spells trouble for the repugs.
You can try to do the typical republican spin on JayJay’s post and try to make it say something it does not but you better brace yourself for a rough fall.

Posted by: mark at July 14, 2006 7:32 AM
Comment #167449

Got to agree with Brian, have to let the public see and hear what Democrats can do other then bitch and complain about the republican party and leadership. Why because I am one of those Evangelicals Christians but not a republican, and I am getting tired of hearing about how christians are bible thumping republicans.
I consider myself independent, but lean more Dem then Rep. If it continues as the “I hate” instead of this is what we want to do, what we can do, then I think you will still lose.

Posted by: KT at July 14, 2006 7:40 AM
Comment #167450

Mark-

Brian isn’t spinning anything. He’s just being realistic. Until the Dems come up with a cohesive, workable plan to govern, they are seen as a party of hate and jealousy. They also need to get the plan out to the people. Put it out and let the people decide if it works.

It would also help if the Dems could agree that occasionally the President or the Republicans do something good.

And, before all the invective and namecalling starts, I am not a Republican, I am a libertarian who doesn’t always go with the Libertarian line. At this point, I am leaning Democratic in the Fall and maybe 2008, depending on the candidates and platforms.

Posted by: John Back at July 14, 2006 7:41 AM
Comment #167451

I urge everyone to follow JayJay’s advice and if you are not already doing so to get involved in your local Democratic Party. Many of you have put up posts saying how you have had it with the Dems. Consider the alternative, do you really want to continue seeing red? It would be great if a third party could have an impact but it not going to happen any time soon. Get involved, get local, get something done besides sitting at your computer bitching and moaning about where the Democrats are at. Getting involved at the local level is a whole lot easier than what you might think and if enough of us liberals do it we can take back the Party.

Posted by: mark at July 14, 2006 7:45 AM
Comment #167454

John Beck
The main reason that Dems are seen as the “party of hate and jealousy” is because of the extremely effective republican spin machine. Their ability to follow the party line really pays off whenit comes to spinning. Yes, there are some Dems who preach hate but they don’t hold a candle when it comes to the likes of Rush, Sean, Chaney and many of the republicans.

Posted by: mark at July 14, 2006 7:53 AM
Comment #167457

This fall could be exciting if we really cleaned house (and Senate). I think every incumbant should be booted out - republican, democrat or independant. Clear out everybody and start over. Then start a movement to get rid of the electorial collage and have elections decided by the people who vote. What a concept! Next they might think about booting out the lobiests so the constituants might have a voice equal to the influence peddlers and the Abranoff types, then the new congress might try policing themselves by actually reinstating the ethics committee and holding anybody not up for reelection this term feet to the fire.

The way I see it both parties are equally quilty of childish behavior.

Posted by: Pam Dunbar at July 14, 2006 8:07 AM
Comment #167464

Just a personal favor for anyone who has a few minutes…

———-

Taking back our country: here’s what my company (business partner and my 2 employees) have done…

http://www.engagingthegrassroots.com/index.html

This isn’t a business - it’s a non-profit to help progressive people interact better and be more successful with potential voters. this project is about door-to-door canvassing. Any ideas for other needed project?

Posted by: tony at July 14, 2006 8:52 AM
Comment #167466

mark:

One of the biggest problems right now in the Democratic party is its ability to blame its problems on Republicans. Look at your statement: “The main reason that Dems are seen as the “party of hate and jealousy” is because of the extremely effective republican spin machine.

Blame the Republicans all you want, but the reality is that the Dem party has been focused on how bad Bush is. They’ve been running against Bush, as opposed to being for ideas. This is what hurts them. Republicans certainly exploit this for their own benefit, but Democrats need to take responsibility for their own actions and inactions.

If you hold that the Repubs are powerful enough to put words into the Dems mouth, to make Dems say certain things, to make Dems act in certain ways, well then you are saying the Repubs are certainly powerful. Even I did not know they were so powerful as to have a Vulcan mind control over the Democratic party.

The Dem party is in a bit of a schism. You have the left and the far left fighting for control of the party. Politically speaking, that is not a good thing because it splits the party. Better to figure out a cohesive party platform that can include all Dems rather than root out the weaker group.

Look at Joe Lieberman. Forget his politics etc. The man was the darling of the Dem party just 6 years ago, as its VP nominee. Now he is being discarded by the side of the road.

Look at Paul Hackett, who was abandoned by the Dem party in favor of one of their own. He didn’t withdraw only on his own…he was forced to withdraw because the party dried up his funding sources.

I hope the Dems can provide a salient counterpoint to the Republicans. If they only bicker amongst themselves, they will not be any kind of force. I like the idea of having options at the elections, but the third parties so far have not been viable. Neither will the Dem party unless they decide who and what they want to be.

Posted by: jeobagodonuts at July 14, 2006 8:58 AM
Comment #167469

JayJay
This topic really fascinates me, good post.
If I am reading it right, you are saying the Democrat party is too moderate, “Republican-lite,” and that is why people have been rejecting their platform. You believe now is the time to move even further left.
If the Republican PR machine has convinced voters that the word liberal is so bad and only represents the “far left” interests, why do you think validating this belief will work in the Dems favor now?

There is a big difference between liberal Democrats and average Joe Democrats and the sooner the Dem party realizes this and starts respecting this difference, the sooner they will start winning elections.

Do our country a favor and give us a candidate that even the average Joe Democrat can support.

Posted by: kctim at July 14, 2006 9:38 AM
Comment #167477

If there is no room in the democrat part for Lieberman and other moderate candidates, there is no room for me either. Let the wings (far left and far right) form their own parties and leave the rest of us alone to battle for the middle “thinking” American. I just hate all this bullshit. Jim

Posted by: Jim Martin at July 14, 2006 10:21 AM
Comment #167489

This article is a blaring example of the democrats’ huge weak points. They think they have no corruption. They think they have no special interests. They slam the extreme right (who are those awful awful people who really believe in Christianity and its principles … God, Inc. is it?) yet support people like Sheehan & Belafonte who in turn support America haters like Chavez. (I think Chavez is right by the way, heck with the USA for being its #1 customer! Who do we think we are buying one of Venezuela’s rare export products?!)

Then there’s Howard Dean … which would be like the Republicans having Ann Coulter as their Party Chairman. Ridiculous is as ridiculous does I suppose.

Posted by: Ken Strong at July 14, 2006 11:00 AM
Comment #167494

Great article, Jay Jay.
And excellent posts Kansas, mark, and tony (wonderful video!).
We don’t need to listen to the rightwing spin, or to the discouragement of others who want the Democratic party to be nothing more than Republican Lite.
We all just need to get active in our communities, wherever and whenever we can, and keep moving ahead…

Posted by: Adrienne at July 14, 2006 11:24 AM
Comment #167505

“We don’t need to listen to the…”

Couldn’t that be part of the Dems problem?
They didnt listen to the people, put up liberal candidates and they lost. Maybe voters are ready for a candidate that is more of a Democrat than a liberal?
A Democrat who does not hold extreme liberal views should not be viewed as “Republican lite” by the left, especially if you want to win some elections.

Now, I realize you all know whats best for everybody else and don’t want any “advice” from non-libs, so please understand that my questions and statements are being presented to help me try and learn where the left is coming from, not to discourage or spin.

Posted by: kctim at July 14, 2006 12:01 PM
Comment #167509

Here we go again.

Some while ago, I speculated exactly what it would take for the Dems and the Reps to start serving the people again, instead of serving their own special intrests.

Dems:

Dump the leadership. All they know how to do is to say, “Bush sux”. He won’t be here in 2008 and then what are you gonna do? Huh? “Bush sux” only works for so long and then it’s over and done with.
Get a message that rings true with the people. NOT the people in just “blue” states. With ALL the people coast-to-coast…and hammer that message home. Prove to the “red” states that the Dems are not a party made up of rabid, drooling at the mouth, lunatic fringe radical leftists.

Reps:

Same message. Dump the leadership. You can’t just cater to the “red” states. You have to reach out to the entire country with a message that is forceful and true and relates to everyone. You can’t just cater to one segment of the populace.

Dems:

If you want to be a “big tent” party, then BE a “big tent” party. Start trying to serve ALL the people. And, PS, you can’t be a “big tent” party by spewing hate and vitriol.

Reps:

Quit being aloof. You are the party of fiscal conservancy and social moderation. You are a party of “small government”. BE THAT! And make sure that everyone knows it. Also, words are just words. Take action and let people SEE that you are taking action to make their lives better.

Dems:

Tell the “ultra-left” to go take a hike. Tell Michael Moore and all his buddys to form their own political party…but get the hell out of the Dems so they can make the word “liberal” mean something positive.

Reps:

Tell all the “holier than thou” ultra right wing extremists to go take a hike. Tell them if they don’t like it to form their own party. Your duty to the American people is not served by a bunch of ultra right wing nut cases. It is served by showing strength, compassion and response to the will of those who elected you. You know, your bosses…the American people.

Posted by: Jim T at July 14, 2006 12:21 PM
Comment #167516

JayJay it sounds good on paper but in the real world there are just not enough folks that agree with you.The Democrats problem is the fact that no one is listening to them.The biggest lefty on cable news is Cris Mathews and his show Hard Ball has a hard time competing with the weather channel.Fox News on the other hand has more veiwers than all the liberal leaning stations on Cable and C.B.S.,N.B.C. and A.B.C. combined.You folks are fighting a losing battle.No One beleives in your problem solving skills or you Ability to Protect the American People and the bigger the war the bigger the joke the Democrats become.

Posted by: sitandwatch at July 14, 2006 12:40 PM
Comment #167519

Two points :

1. The Republicans may be in the back pocket of big business but the Democrats are in the back pocket of the union. Have the unions really did any good lately for the American economy? Look at our auto industry in Detriot today and what has happened to our Steel industry …

2. What really should be done is to get rid of both the Republican & Democratic parties and create a three party system. The Conservatives, the Liberals, and the Moderates. And since our great Country is more to the middle than either ends, I bet that there would be a majority of Moderates elected to draw on the best of the extremes.

Posted by: WRA at July 14, 2006 12:46 PM
Comment #167524

WRA
One hundred and ten percent correct.
Dividing into three party’s as you suggest is their biggest fear though and is why the extremes now control the two party’s.
Liberal and Conservative agenda’s cannot survive without the Moderates being forced, or duped, into voting for one or the other.

Posted by: kctim at July 14, 2006 12:55 PM
Comment #167526

JBD
Nice spin(not really). I did not say that the republican spin machine makes Dems say certain things, they just take what we do say and try to convince people we said something else, just as you attempted to do with my words.

Yes, we have been focused on how bad Bush is because he has been bad, causing damage to this country that will take decades to repair. With a approval rating of only 36% it’s clear the people of this country agree. And that is the reason it is so important to take control of congress so that He can be kept in check for the last two years of his term. That message needs to remain at the forefront of this campaign.

The Democratic party has always been in a bit of a schism(remember Will Rodgers line about not belonging to an organized political party) and I am glad to belong to a party that does not force its members to agree on everything, that allows us to think for ourselves and not follow the party line.

I must also disagree with your statement about Joe Lieberman being the darling of the Democratic Party. He never had that kind of popularity and did little to help Al Gore in 2000.

You are absolutley correct about Paul Hackett. That was a big mistake but I’m gald to see he is supporting the Democratic candidate.

Posted by: mark at July 14, 2006 12:59 PM
Comment #167527

“and I am glad to belong to a party that does not force its members to agree on everything, that allows us to think for ourselves and not follow the party line”

Except on taxes.
Oh, and we could also ask Lieberman how “thinking for himself and not following the party line” concerning the war, helped him with the party your glad to belong to.

Posted by: kctim at July 14, 2006 1:07 PM
Comment #167528

The real issue, as I see it, is the exact opposite of what it was in the past. Basically, Democrat solutions to the problems we face are nuanced and difficult to encapsulate in a 30 second TV ad or a bumper sticker. Republican solutions are easier to summarize. This is the problem the Dems need to overcome.

Note: don’t neceassrily equate “nuanced” with “better”. Sometimes a simple solution is best.

Posted by: David S at July 14, 2006 1:07 PM
Comment #167533

kctim

Could you be so kind as to tell me what the Democratic Party line is on taxes?

How is the Democratic Party punishing Lieberman for his views on the war in Iraq? It does appear that some of his constituents are not happy with him as they have every rignt to be. If they do not want to send him back to the senate isn’t that how it is suppose to work? Is he showing his true colors by getting ready to run as an independent before he even loses the primary?

Posted by: mark at July 14, 2006 1:42 PM
Comment #167534

tony

Awesome video! I just ordered one for our local canvassers to watch before we hit the streets. I expect it to be very helpful. THANK YOU!

How about doing one on phone banking?

Posted by: mark at July 14, 2006 1:46 PM
Comment #167536

David S

There’s a reason that Republican solutions are easier to summarize. They are sound bites, not solutions. “Stay the course” is not a solution. When you are facing problems as complex as those facing this country and the world, the “solutions” are not simple, only the talking points are.

Posted by: mark at July 14, 2006 1:54 PM
Comment #167539

adrienne & mark -

Thanks for taking the time and giving feedback. This is our first pass at producing something like this… We’ve tried for years to get into particular candidate campaigns and local or state DEM party… no interest at all.

So - we decided to just do it on our own and see what difference we can make.

mark - I’ll run the phone banking concept past the guys here …

Thanks

Posted by: tony at July 14, 2006 1:58 PM
Comment #167540

I think some here missed the point of my post. It was not about the “lunatic left” and the “Right Wing Wackos” My point was that if middle America ever wants to have a say in their Governance again, then they need to take control of one of political parties and put them in power to work for us.

It is my contention that other interests already control the Republican Party. The Democratic Party is much more open to the idea of remaking itself into the Party of the People. It will not happen overnight, but it has to start somewhere. Whether you see it or not, I believe that Howard Dean’s 50-state strategy is an attempt to bring the people back into their Governance. The fact that the Democratic Party is open to such change should encourage us to further that change.

I also disagree with the “big tent” idea. The Dems cannot be everything to everyone. The Republican Party has been successful by catering to a couple small, but vocal interest groups. The Democrat Party can be even more successful if they cater to the average Middle American voter, a group that is much larger.

For those that say that the Party should not swing any further to the left, what do they have to lose if they do? The Democratic Party has been trying to appeal to moderates since the success of Bill Clinton and his moderate platform. What has it gotten them?

Further, the Republican Party has been successful not by trying to appeal to moderate voters, but by appealing to it’s base- the far right. If your own base does not support you, then what are your chances of getting support from moderates? Whether we like it or not, moderates do not win elections. I think that is because it becomes too hard to differentiate between the current leadership and the moderate candidate. A problem I think many Democrats suffer from now. So, yes I am advocating the Dem party move to the left and work to win back the support of it’s core base, then build up from there.

The biggest lefty on cable news is Cris Mathews and his show Hard Ball has a hard time competing with the weather channel.Fox News on the other hand has more veiwers than all the liberal leaning stations on Cable and C.B.S.,N.B.C. and A.B.C. combined.

sitandwatch,

Say what? Chris Matthews is a lefty? Wow, how far to the right do you have to be to believe that Chris Matthews is a lefty? Actually, I would say that the cable newscasters that lean the most to the left are Jack Cafferty (CNN), and Keith Olbermann (MSNBC). Olbermann’s show, Countdown, is experiencing big ratings growth, while Bill O’Reilly is seeing big drops in his ratings. I was unaware that any cable news show had higher ratings than even one broadcast news show.

Posted by: JayJay Snow at July 14, 2006 2:05 PM
Comment #167542

mark:

The biggest problem with the Democratic party, in my humble opinion, is that Dems are very willing to place blame for their failures outside of their control. I look at that kind of like how my elementary school children used to blame the referee for causing their team to lose, or their teacher for them not getting a good grade….or whomever they could possibly point a finger at.

I remember the constant refrain: “But Daaaaaad, its not Faaaaaiiirrr!” And I hear that from the Dems all the time. From people claiming that the Republicans are better at spin, that elections have been stolen, that the Electoral College should be changed, that the Constitution is being subverted (forget that changing the EC would be essentially a subversion of the Constitution), that Karl Rove is an evil genius etc etc etc.

Dems need to focus on what they can control. They can control their message. Sometimes they think their message is so great that it cannot be assailed. John Kerry proved them wrong on that. He had a winner of a resume regarding Viet Nam, but he played his hand so poorly that it came back to cost him. Had he made Viet Nam a PART of his background, rather than THE PART of his background, all the resulting chaos would never have emerged. I’m not even focusing on whether the SBVT were telling the truth—I’m saying that had Kerry controlled his own message, all other messages would have been meaningless.

The Dems need to figure out who they want to back regarding Iraq. Hillary is a front runner and has supported Iraq. Kerry is a front runner who is now not supporting Iraq…wait, he IS supporting..no hang on…he’s not again. :)

By blaming others for their own problems, Dems stay with the same arguments. They assume its not them that has the problem—-but its everyone else. If only everyone else—-ie the voters—could fully understand them, if only they were smart enough, they’d get it and vote Dem. This is where they’ve been wrong.

Posted by: joebagodonuts at July 14, 2006 2:08 PM
Comment #167543
Basically, Democrat solutions to the problems we face are nuanced and difficult to encapsulate in a 30 second TV ad or a bumper sticker. Republican solutions are easier to summarize. This is the problem the Dems need to overcome.

David S.,

You are absolutly right. You could spend a whole day at the House Democrat’s website, but most people won’t take the time to read all that. It’s alot easier to just claim the Dems don’t have a plan. Sadly, we have become a catch phrase society.

Posted by: JayJay Snow at July 14, 2006 2:13 PM
Comment #167544

The Democratic Party needs to distinguish itself from the Republican Party. The Republican Party represents Big Business. The Democratic Party should represent all the people, not merely those with lots of money.

In the past the Democratic Party has been hampered in its task because it accepted money from Big Business donors. Howard Dean is getting away from this. This is why he is attacked so much.

If the netroots, who are ordinary people, take over the Democratic Party, the party will be able to go back to its original goal of working for ordinary people.

Posted by: Paul Siegel at July 14, 2006 2:15 PM
Comment #167545

JayJay thats my point your side don’t seem to be aware of anything going on in this country.Get off the blogs for a while and see what the people of this Country really think.You might be surprised.

Posted by: sitandwatch at July 14, 2006 2:18 PM
Comment #167548

jbd

You’re right, the Dems do need to work on their messages so that they are more spin proof.
While I don’t believe anyone can control their message completely, and that a message can change and evolve as circumstances change, Democrats do need to do abetter job of communicating with the public.

Posted by: mark at July 14, 2006 2:21 PM
Comment #167550

The democrat party is not the party of the people. The are wrapped up with special inrests just as the republicans are. The only glaring difference is that republicans spend less money for social programs (they still spend toooo much). If you want the party to be as it should be you need more Liebermans. But he is being kicked to the curb by his own party. I believe this is unthinkable. I am not a democrat but I believe Lieberman is good for washington even if he very liberal. I like him becuase he does what he believes to be right not what is popular. The reason the Dems are trying to kick him to the curb is becuase he is a hawk on the war. Thats the only reason they have. The dems do need to take back thier party. They should start by removing Clinton, Palosy, and Boxer. Now that being said if Dean is running the show the Dems are in trouble in the near future. He’s wasted thier money needlessly.

Posted by: Anthony at July 14, 2006 2:26 PM
Comment #167551

JBOD,

I won’t argue with your points, although I do not agree with them entirely, but I agree that the Democratic leadership is poor. That is why I am advocating fundamental changes in the party. The voters will not be able to address the problems with the Democratic leadership (ie. Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid) this election cycle. However, we can send a message to the leadership about the direction we want the party to head. Lieberman is a prime example. It is not the Democratic Party leadership that is punishing Lieberman for his views on the war in Iraq. They support his re-election. It is the Democratic voters who are sending a message that it is “we the people” who are suppose to control the government, not the other way around. Only by kicking out politicians, who do not represent where the Democratic voters want to go, can we rebuild the Party of the People.

Posted by: JayJay Snow at July 14, 2006 2:27 PM
Comment #167553

sitandwatch

Only someone with a Rush Limbough mentality would consider Chris Mathews the “biggest lefty on cable news”. What in the heck are you thinking? And with a name like sitandwatch why are you telling JayJay Snow to get out and see what the people of this country think? I’ll tell you what they think, they think that GWB is one if the worst Presidents in the history of this country and that we need to elect Dems to congress in November to keep him from doing any more harm.

Posted by: mark at July 14, 2006 2:31 PM
Comment #167554
The only glaring difference is that republicans spend less money for social programs (they still spend toooo much).

Anthony,

They do? What was that medicare part D thing? The biggest expansion in a social program in the history of medicare?

I think you are wrong about Lieberman, he part of the problem with the Democratic Party (along with Pelosi, Reid, & Hillary), not the solution. The solution is for the opposition party to start acting like it. There is a huge segment of the population that leans left, that is not being represented by our current leadership.

Only time will tell if Dean wasted money needlessly, or if we see a big payoff.

Posted by: JayJay Snow at July 14, 2006 2:35 PM
Comment #167555

Jay Jay:

“If your own base does not support you, then what are your chances of getting support from moderates? Whether we like it or not, moderates do not win elections. I think that is because it becomes too hard to differentiate between the current leadership and the moderate candidate. A problem I think many Democrats suffer from now. So, yes I am advocating the Dem party move to the left and work to win back the support of it’s core base, then build up from there.

You have just articulated in several sentences a concept I have been struggling to formulate for quite a while now. This dragging the Democratic party to the center “to win elections” is what I have labeled the Mayonaisse Factor. It smacks of Clintonian triangulation that alienates the core base of the party, and makes independents and moderates uneasy. They think “Okay, you want my vote—but what aren’t you telling me to get it? “The American voter gets enough of that from the GOP.

Thank you for saying it so ably and cogently.

Posted by: Tim Crow at July 14, 2006 2:40 PM
Comment #167556

Jay Jay:
“Sadly, we have become a catch phrase society.”

It is sad, yet I still think these catch phrases can be easily defeated. The way to do it was very well showcased by tony’s video. Outreach. Canvassing. When we talk to our neighbors and ask them about what they’re most concerned with, and then give them the Democratic candidates positions on those things, were getting our messages out best. Even a single conversation with a friendly, well-informed person who lives in their own neighborhood is sometimes all it will take to get someone motivated to go vote in their own best interest. The annoyingly repetitive barage of slick catch phrases on TV just can’t compete with real and sincere conversations.
I believe the human touch has got to be key when we talk about A Party Of The People, don’t you agree?

Posted by: Adrienne at July 14, 2006 2:41 PM
Comment #167557

Mark if this Country Hates G.W. so much why are the Dems. Having such a hard time getting their Message out?NOBODY CARES WHAT THE DEMOCRATS THINK!We allow you folks to voice your oppinion its called being nice to the Backward Minority.

Posted by: sitandwatch at July 14, 2006 2:41 PM
Comment #167558

“Get off the blogs for a while and see what the people of this Country really think.You might be surprised.”

OK - so what does this article say about your points of view?

“With less than four months to the midterm elections, the latest Associated Press-Ipsos poll found that Americans by an almost 3-to-1 margin hold the GOP-controlled Congress in low regard and profess a desire to see Democrats wrest control after a dozen years of Republican rule.

Further complicating the GOP outlook to turn things around is a solid percentage of liberals, moderates and even conservatives who say they’ll vote Democratic. The party out of power also holds the edge among persuadable voters, a prospect that doesn’t bode well for the Republicans.”

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/07/14/republicans.appoll.ap/index.html

Posted by: tony at July 14, 2006 2:42 PM
Comment #167559

“Look at Joe Lieberman. Forget his politics etc. The man was the darling of the Dem party just 6 years ago, as its VP nominee. Now he is being discarded by the side of the road.”

Uh, joebag, lieberman was never a favorite of the Democrats. Gore PICKED him, WE didn’t vote on him. I personally barely knew who he was.
If his choices now go against the Democrat mainstream, then WHY WOULD WE REELECT HIM?
Country above party, think about it.

Posted by: Observer at July 14, 2006 2:46 PM
Comment #167563

For the “Independants”: By registering as such you have given up being of much influence in either of the main parties. Your choice of course,but a poor one if you really care.I can not speak for the Reps but if you have some good ideas and are willing to get involved in your local Dem committee will accept you with open arms. They are not going to immediately do everything you want of course. It takes work and can be frustrating at times but the alternative is futility.


This talk that the Dems only offer Bush hatred and have no ideas to offer is pure spin. No basis in reality. If you mean the Dems have no ideas you bothered to read or consider you would be accurate .

To Dems: There are three main issues we should hammer on.

1. A real massive and immediate national program to achieve energy independance with a goal to eventually end the use of fossil fuels entirely . The reasons for this are obvious and profound. The resistance to this is powerful and determined. We should borrow a tactic from the right. Anyone attempting to slow or halt peogress to this end should be labeled as unpatriotic. They are.

2.Curtailment of the industrial-military complex and the imperialism it has wrought. The US spends about 50% of the military expenditures of the entire world. We are also the biggest arms dealer. Yes the world is dangerious. Also true is that we are spending far more than is necessary to provide security. This often gives us less security. Case in point: We gave WMDs to Saddam Huesien; We trained and armed elements of the Taliban including Bin Laden.

3. National healthcare. Our health care delivery system is a disgrace and an econmic millstone. Our infant mortality rate approaches third world levels. The average Frenchman gets better health care than even wealthy Americans and pays far less. The icremental approach to reform does in fact help people(children,elderly) but does not go far enough to provide real price controls. Americans know they are being ripped off. Dems know how to stop it, single payer national health care. Again there is determined opposition. We play hardball. Every Rep that opposes it get exposed as a corporate shill(they are)etc.

4. Social Security: Remember Gores promise to lock up the social security funds for the future. Remember how Bush gave the idea lip service and then proceeded to attack social security and squander the funds. Yes there is a demographic bubble comming. That is why we wisely have been paying more and more into what should have been the trust fund. Because of Bushco making it solvent into the future will be more painful but I believe most Americans a willing to do it.


There are books written on all of these topics There are many other issues that need addressing. These are all interrelated. For example,a bloated military is justified to provide secure oil supplies and uses up money that could be spent improving healthcare and securing Social Security etc. My point is this are real problems that need to be addressed and we can win by providing real solutions and sticking to them.

Posted by: BillS at July 14, 2006 3:04 PM
Comment #167567

JayJay
“Thank you for saying it so ably and cogently”

I would also like to thank you. That post helped me see where I was wrong in my thinking.

I always believed the average working joe was supposed to be the “core” base of the Dems. I had no idea that this had changed.
My bad for not paying attention.

Posted by: kctim at July 14, 2006 3:32 PM
Comment #167568
Fox News on the other hand has more veiwers than all the liberal leaning stations on Cable and C.B.S.,N.B.C. and A.B.C. combined.You folks are fighting a losing battle.

sitandwatch,

You claim Fox News has more veiwers than all the liberal leaning stations on Cable and CBS,NBC and ABC combined. If you combine just the viewership for the nightly broadcast news shows on CBS (6,600,000), NBC (8,640,000) and ABC (8,550,000) it equals 23,790,000 viewers. Fox News averages 3.3 million viewers daily. Fox News on all day does not even beat one of the nightly news programs, this doesn’t even include the Cable news networks.

As of 6-29-06 Keith Olbernmann’s ratings are up 37 percent and the O’Reilly factor ratings are down 20 percent.

Posted by: JayJay Snow at July 14, 2006 3:35 PM
Comment #167571

Tony are you going to fall for poll results again?Remember Election day 2004 You guys had G.W. on his way back to texas two years later he is still in the White House.The Republicans will pick up seats in the Senate And House of Representitives this November.Read it And Weep!

Posted by: sitandwatch at July 14, 2006 3:41 PM
Comment #167572

My only beef with evangelicals is that they should not be a privileged class and should be taxed, as should all churches. An exception for small local organizations is reasonable as they probably are largely a charitable organization. Televangelists and National Churches however are business enterprises and should be taxed.

Posted by: gergle at July 14, 2006 3:45 PM
Comment #167573

JayJay Do you for one second beleive what you say?No one Beleives The Liberal Polls Anymore.We can watch numbers live and yours dont add up.

Posted by: sitandwatch at July 14, 2006 3:47 PM
Comment #167575

So BillS; since I am a independent, if I understand you, I waste my vote, if I don’t vote for either party. Last time I looked at the Constitution, I do not see where it says that we are just a two party system. Look back in History and see how indepentents have had influence on elections some good, some bad.
My vote, my voice is as important as any Dem or Rep.
The ones that bother me are the ones who don’t vote, yet complain, complain, and complain. If you don’t vote, you give up your right to complain because you don’t care.

Posted by: KT at July 14, 2006 3:51 PM
Comment #167577

sitandwatch

You obviously don’t have any say in what I do or I wouldn’t be able to express my views as I wish. Besides, you don’t strike me as someone who spends too much time being nice anyway.

Posted by: mark at July 14, 2006 3:54 PM
Comment #167579

BillS,

I agree with two out the four items you propose - and I appreciate the fact that you offer solutions rather than just trash the right, but that’s exactly the problem with the far left - it’s not good enough to just agree on a few issues, (that’s progress in my mind). If anyone does not completely agree with every single opinion, statement or tantrum, they are mocked and labled as bible-thumping, rich, heartless, facists. (Poor Lieberman. So much for the 90% of times he has sided with the Dems.) THAT’S the problem with the message. Liberals continually lambaste the other 99% of the people who don’t lean as far as they do. That doesn’t seem too inclusive to me. But the anti-liberman, anti-pelosi, rants are all we hear. For now, feel free to belittle me as I’ll be sticking with my beer, nascar, and Lynnard.

Go Dale Jr.!

Posted by: G.K. at July 14, 2006 4:03 PM
Comment #167581

I don’t claim either party. But one thing I’ve seen so far is that if Liberman is’nt nominated and runs as an independent the Democratic party is in big trouble.

Posted by: KAP at July 14, 2006 4:15 PM
Comment #167582

That’s funny coming from somebody who thinks Lindsey Graham is a good guy. That in a nutshell is what’s wrong with the Democratic Party.

Posted by: alan pezaro at July 14, 2006 4:30 PM
Comment #167586

The Democrats have forgotten who they are. The average voter for the dems does not agree with thier platform. My father is a true dem since as long as I can remember. He is a union man. The problem is, That was the old party. That is the Liebermans. Now the party is gone to far left. I myself am a conservative. Which means I’m not to happy with the republicans. But I do respect the people who stick to thier beliefs (weather there wrong or right) and dont just say what they need to to stay in thier seat.
Now to billS and his comprehensive solutions. (better than the DNC’s)
1. I can solve the first problem drill in Alaska. Allow companies to build refineries. Get rid of mid grade gasoline. Make one standard gasoline blend for the nation. Even if we just adopt the last two we would drop gasoline prices by 50%. Now I used to work in Chevron and people who believe drilling in Alaska is going to destroy the enviornment know nothing of modern drilling exploration. (devolped by haliburton). There is nearly no oil loss. This is not what people would want you to hear but its true. I worked at the Kern River Facility. And there was a loss of 84 barrels a year. Remember this site has 20-30 year old equipment being phased out. On top of that we now dont drill strait down. we drill a whole fill it with concrete and then blast to the point of oil.
2. Your second point is we spend too much money for security. You must understand we have a military that is all over the world. We have military bases all over the planet. And we are also developing new technologies. In a technological world it is important to always have the best or you will be defeated.
3. Nationalising healthcare is a ludicris argument. For starters the wait time in all nationalized healthcare systems is incredible. Besides this anything the private sector can do it should do. The goverment would just spend money frivilisly as it currently does and people will not get better service. I dont know where you get your information rate but the mortality rate is 6.63 for every 1000 births. This is nowhere near that of ANY 3rd world country. Thiers are usually 50+ for every 1000 births.
4. Well my personal belief is SS should be abolished. It was never meant to be a long term deal. It eventually will go bankrupt no matter what you do with the current funds. The reason for this is the baby boomers. Either they are going to raise taxes exorbantly or they are going to make it harder for people to recieve it. But as I said before it was never even meant to be an entiltelment. Before they had SS people use to SAVE for thier retirement.

Posted by: Anthony at July 14, 2006 4:54 PM
Comment #167605

“Read it And Weep!”

sitandwatch -

In the words of the great “decider” : BRING IT ON!

Posted by: tony at July 14, 2006 6:11 PM
Comment #167608

“Before they had SS people use to SAVE for thier retirement.”

No - before SS, people use to stare to death. But hell, they deserve - damn old being growing old… die young and save us the money!

Posted by: tony at July 14, 2006 6:12 PM
Comment #167619

—Anthony—You have the opinion that Social Security be discontinued, what would the factual
consequences be as the end result , if you care?

Posted by: DAVID at July 14, 2006 6:46 PM
Comment #167620

—-Tony— There were many Poor houses also!

Posted by: DAVID at July 14, 2006 6:49 PM
Comment #167624

—Jay Jay Snow—By the looks of the latest polls. The Republicans will self destruct with a little
more help from the web, an the Democrats. I have also noticed some t.v. comments about good things
going on with web sites. I like your post as well.

Posted by: DAVID at July 14, 2006 7:01 PM
Comment #167625

——For any younger posters, a “poorhouse” is where
people with no money were sent!—

Posted by: DAVID at July 14, 2006 7:07 PM
Comment #167632

—very strange(Congress voted to build a wall across Mexico, Today they voted not to finance it)

Posted by: DAVID at July 14, 2006 7:21 PM
Comment #167634

I think all of you dems, liberals are fighting an uphill battle.
You must take your party back from the Michael Moores and move on dot org. These radicals have hijacked the party and will not go away easy. With these folks dictating policy the democratic party is very close to becoming a white elephant. This problem is evident in the above postings. Lots of talk but no substance nor facts presented. Keep hating our president and the american people will finally turn you off. Time will tell.

Posted by: famcampken at July 14, 2006 7:25 PM
Comment #167638

“Well my personal belief is SS should be abolished. It was never meant to be a long term deal. It eventually will go bankrupt no matter what you do with the current funds. The reason for this is the baby boomers. Either they are going to raise taxes exorbantly or they are going to make it harder for people to recieve it. But as I said before it was never even meant to be an entiltelment. Before they had SS people use to SAVE for thier retirement.”

Anthony,

You should sue you old American history teachers. The historical accounts I’ve read painted a very dismal picture of a huge percentage of the elderly in the USA before Social Security. But, even today, one third of Americans 65 and older derive 90% to 100% of their entire income from Social Security. That’s nearly 10 million people living almost solely on SS payments.

Maybe the thought of 10 million or more elderly Americans living in cardboard boxes and eating out of dumpsters doesn’t bother you, but it sends chills up my spine.

http://www.epinet.org/content.cfm/issueguide_socialsecurityfacts

KansasDem

Posted by: KansasDem at July 14, 2006 7:39 PM
Comment #167666

KansasDem, they won’t be living in cardboard boxes, the local governments will just be saddled with the additional cost of caring for the elderly. People in the poorest states will rely on food donations from churches, which is the Rpblcn policy for almost everyone who is now receiving any kind of government assistance.

Posted by: ohrealy at July 14, 2006 8:26 PM
Comment #167695

—Fancampken—No one hates your president, we just don’t like his inability to know right from wrong, I
like honest people, some one you can trust not to lie about the reason for going to war or illegally having our computers and phones tapped. Then I guess
it was alright to have his henchman disclose a CIA
agent, placing she an her group in great danger. there are to many other facts of dishonesty committed by the Administration to list. I believe the expression “you are judged by the company you keep”has begun to show in all polls being taken, I
guess Birds of a feather flock together, It is also dishonest to be a spinmiester or pathological story teller, Who would you like to be associated with? That’s what the voters will decide in Nov. an in 08

Posted by: DAVID at July 14, 2006 9:17 PM
Comment #167708

—ohrealy—You should have a bumper sticker made up
with your statements printed on them. I will even
draw a map for next vacation an display all the nice
places for you to visit. I bet you would get a big bang out of it.

Posted by: DAVID at July 14, 2006 9:49 PM
Comment #167722

KT; I did not say you waste your vote. You have ,in most states, given up any say in the primaries. You also give up the ability to influence your local county committee,Democrat or Republican or Green or American Independant or Natural Law etc.

Anthony: Thanks,now to it.The Dems are ALWAYS devided. That is the mark of a dynamic political party. It is often a weakness but it is also a strength.

1. We already drill in Alaska. Even expanded drilling would only supply months of our demand. If you want to use Bush’es analogy of oil addiction it would be like a junkie finding an old stash, not solve the problem.
You are right. Mid-grade and premium out to be phased out.
Furthur, a real national program to get off burning fossil fuels is doable. There needs be no Wright brothers to invent some great new technology,although there might be. With incentivizing,stabilizing prices, and reseach funding etc. from the feds we could “get off “forign oil in 5 years. We could stop burning oil in 10-20. Many belive,including myself, that there are grave enviormental hazards in our continueing use of fossil fuels. To much to discuss here. True or not does not matter for this discussion. The point is sooner or later we will run out of oil. All ready we as a nation are forced to kiss the butts of some of the rottenest despots on the planet. Our armed forces chief concern is securing our oil supply at this point.
2. You might want to read what Eisenhaur,a good Republican president had to say about the military-industrial complex.
They way the Pentagon procures weapons is backwards. The contractor makes more money if the item they are trying sell cost more to produce.We wind up with 2.2 billion dollar aircraft and enormously expensive weapons systems of little or no use in the type of conflict we are engaged in while our troops lack armor. We are spending money on the military at levels nearing ww2. We spend as much as the rest of the world combined. Our allies can carry much more of the load if needed.
Putting item #1 into effect would allow for a large drawdown of our forcing whose primary mission is securing our oil supply.

3. National healthcare works fine in every other industrial country in the world. Is it perfect? No,of course not. Does it work better than what we have ? Obviously. The private sector brought us to where we are. 45 million without coverage,millions more with only catostrophic coverage. Yes,long lines. Our infant mortality rate is higher than Cubas. It is somewhere around Latvias. google it. We spend more for health care than anyone and get less than most.
4 Social sSecurity,contrary to your statement, was intended to be a permenent compact between generations. It was also intened to be built on. It is the most successful social benefit programm in history. Its overhead is about 2%. Private annuities run 10 plus percent. It is also our national widows and orphans fund. My 83 year old mother lives off it. I worked all my life and expect to recieve benefits. Bushes plan to invest it in Enron was a non-starter. Raising the cap on paying into it will help. The government paying back the fund the money it has borrowed will keep it solvent for years. The political party that refuses to do that or tries to abolish it will cease to exist.

GK. Your oversimplifying. We only call bible-thumping,rich,heartless,fascist bible-thumping,rich,heartless,fascist that. No really,you are stereotyping. This beer drinking hardhat construction worker can attest to that. As for Lieberman,we didn’t take hin on to raise. He has been wrong on Iraq from the start. Why should we support him?


Posted by: BillS at July 14, 2006 11:30 PM
Comment #167736

—Jeobagodonuts—I believe we have been down this one way street before. The name of this one way street is called total Republican Control. the
street has been named this way for the past five and a half years. How many Democratic proposals
have been in-acted cumming up this republican one way street in those five an one half years? Both Democratic an Republican Pollsters are showing only one in three Republicans are going down your
Republican one way street. Check your local news!
There is a trick question, here for all those who
respond to this post with spin!

Posted by: DAVID at July 15, 2006 1:08 AM
Comment #167758

What an interesting assortment of responses from the right and ‘the middle’ (who proclaim they are not the right). They tell us we have no platform. We do, it’s just that they don’t know about it because all they know they see on foxnews and all foxnews tells ‘em is ‘the democrats don’t have a platform’. AND THEN they tell us our platform is TOO FAR LEFT. How can our platform be too far left, if we don’t have one???

And hey you, ‘moderate joe’, how about telling me what YOUR platform is.
Iraq? The right wants to stay the course, the left wants a phased withdrawal. WHAT’S YOUR MODERATE PLAN???

The economy? The right wants to borrow and spend, the left wants to tax and spend. WHAT’S YOUR MODERATE PLAN? and if your answer is ‘stop spending’ please be sure to include which programs the ‘moderates’ wish to cut. Pork Barrel spending doesn’t count because that’s less than 10% of our deficit… where and how deep do we cut to get rid of that deficit… deeper still if you’re interested in paying off the debt… are you moderates interested in that at all?

Abortion? The right wants reverse Roe v. Wade and the left wants to adhere to Roe v. Wade. What do the moderates want?

Gay rights? The right wants to deny gays the right to get married, the left want them to have that right. What is the moderate position?

Global Warming? The right says it’s a hoax and the left wants to enforce the Kyoto Protocol? Where do the moderates stand on this?

Religious Freedom? The right wants god to have the same rights as every other American, the left thinks god has no place in American Government. Where do the moderates stand on this?

Now something tells me that if the ‘so-called’ moderates here started answering these questions it would sound like they’re ordering from a chinese menu… a little bit of right, a little bit of left… with very few moderating positions in between. Further more, some would ‘moderate’ to the left on some of the issues that others would ‘moderate’ to the right…. and then they would ‘moderate’ to the right on some of the issues that others would ‘moderate’ to the left on.

You think DEMOCRATS don’t have a platform??? Let’s see the Moderates platform. (anyone wanna bet that it DOESN’T smell like 3 day old right wing fish?)

Posted by: Thom Houts at July 15, 2006 5:16 AM
Comment #167760

Thom, do you include Lieberman and Sen. Clinton in your described platform on the Middle East? If you do, you don’t know what you are talking about.

How about campaign finance reform? Is the Dem Party solid on that issue? NO!

How about how to save Soc. Sec.? Are they solid on what measures to take to save it? NO! In fact, the party doesn’t even speak of measures to save it, only rail against privatizing it or ending it.

Dem’s do seem solid on Pay as You Go for new legislation and appropriations. But, tell me, what is the Democratic Platform on bringing the deficits to zero?

And what about border security. We know what many, not all, of the Senate Democrats think, NO Security. What about the rest of the party. I know their constituents want a barrier backed by manpower enforcement. So why is the party’s politicians so at odds with their own majority constituent’s opinion on this?

How about Medicare? What is the Democrat’s plan to solve the economic train wreck heading our way via the baby boomer’s retirement and the spiraling demand for more health care against an already out of control inflation in the health care industry?

Tell me what the Democrat’s platform and plan is to solve these issues, step by step, and I may reconsider my decision to have left the Dem. Party many years ago.

Posted by: David R. Remer at July 15, 2006 5:59 AM
Comment #167763

I apologize Mr. Reimer. I guess you missed the point of my post.
There is not a 100% concensus on all of the issues by either the right or the left. But the platforms I listed are GENERALLY SPEAKING the platforms of the political wings. No, certainly Joe Lieberman isn’t representative of the left on the issue of the Iraq War any more than Rudi Giuliani is representative of the right on the right to choose.
NOW THAT WE’VE GOTTEN THAT CLEARED UP
perhaps you’d like to speak on behalf of the so-called ‘moderates’ and clue us in on the ‘moderate’ platforms on these issues.
I mean, DON’T DODGE THE QUESTION MAN… ANSWER IT.

again I apologize if I didn’t make the point of my post clear… if you forgive me this error, I will be happy to forgive your ignorance of the democrat stance on the issues you mentioned that I failed to mention.

Posted by: Thom Houts at July 15, 2006 7:02 AM
Comment #167766

“Party of the People” seldom is. If the ruling party is anti-big business, who will make jobs, pay taxes? The government cannot create jobs; they create paid positions, each needing tax revenues to make payroll. Make more gummint jobs, need more taxes.

Dems do not get it. Too stupid to see yourself shooting your own foot off.

As for Bush, he isn’t stupid, he’s speech impaired. Gore is thought impaired, his ideas appealing to the immature and ignorant.

The working class is everyone with a pay check, including CEOs. Teddy, Kerry and others are the elites. Get it? Dems always think of the guy making $5 more than them as “the rich”. Isn’t so.

You people disturb me with your half baked idiocies.


Only serious responses will be replied to.

John IQ 185

Posted by: John at July 15, 2006 7:44 AM
Comment #167769

As for Lieberman,we didn’t take hin on to raise. He has been wrong on Iraq from the start. Why should we support him?

It sounds like the war in Iraq is your only issue. Has he not been good little boy other than that? Your all inclusive tent is obviously not large enough for anyone who believes in everything in the platform except for protecting our well being.

You’re asking for independents to join you, but you rip anyone who isn’t a 100% leftist nut. Why would anyone want to deal with the abuse.

What’s happening to Lieberman is shocking. Inclusive party? You can kiss my “TexAss”, (Dave in NorCal’s ever ‘inclusive’ statement above).

The message I hear is that your are elitists.

Posted by: G.K. at July 15, 2006 9:09 AM
Comment #167792

GK: We Democrats have history. Please understand we have had hawks in the leadership before. Remember Lyndon Johnson?50,000 dead American soldiers,2 million dead Vietnamese,enormous treasure all wasted in a pointless war. We are not going to do that again.

Posted by: BillS at July 15, 2006 11:41 AM
Comment #167803

John IQ 185: You call people you do not know stupid elitest and aparently brag about your IQ. Then you want serious responses? OK, I’ll bite. This stupid elitist is a heavy construction carpenter that can probably kick your butt. Later on I am taking my family to an elitist bar b que with my elitist Carpenters Union. Beer,no wine.
The federal governments payroll decreased under Clinton. It has grown enormously under Bush. You will not believe me so google it yourself. How can such a smart guy be so easily fooled is beyond me.

Posted by: BillS at July 15, 2006 12:40 PM
Comment #167818

—-BillS— The two poster above yours most likely
could not produce a total 185 between the two of them!

Posted by: DAVID at July 15, 2006 1:42 PM
Comment #167842

I don’t see the point of criticizing Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi. Is there any particular issue you think they have a lousy position on or have mismanaged? I happen to think they’re doing a good job. Hackett isn’t running as a write-in candidate and has endorsed Sheldon Brown, a great candidate with a much better chance of winning than Hackett would have. Exhorting your readers to write him in
is not only a stupid idea, if you had any influence that kind of thing could just cost us the OH Senate race and possibly the Senate. Now maybe I’m just a little cranky cuz I spent the last 2 hours broiling in the hot canvassing for Tammy Duckworth but I don’t think someboldy who’s supposed to be a Democrat and liberal should be writing vague juvenile insults about the leaders of our party and idiotic suggestions trying to hurt a good man like Sheldon Brown. So unless you have something constructive to write please STFU, pick out a candidate and go volunteer your time and money JayJay. We’re 4 months from elecion day so your cynical kool kid bullshit isn’t welcome.

Posted by: markg8 at July 15, 2006 3:01 PM
Comment #167856

THERE REALLY SHOULDN”T BE A PROBLEM IF YOU (DNC) SAW TO IT THAT THE ELECTIONS WERE”NT TAINTED OR RIGGED.

Posted by: Laughing at July 15, 2006 3:43 PM
Comment #167866

* sigh *

Imagine there is no such thing as a Democrat or Republican.
Are incumbent politicians doin’ a good job?
Who are they?
Can you name 10, 20, 50, or even 268 (of 535 in Congress) that are responsible?

Instead, politicians are gettin’ theirs, paddin’ their golden parachutes, votin’ themselves cu$hy perk$ and rai$e$, and fueling the petty partisan warfare that too many voters are all too fond of wallowing in.
So, why keep re-electing irresponsible incumbents?

Look at incumbency rates:

The Senate has an 80% re-election rate.
The Representatives have a 99% re-election rate.
Why?
Because we keep re-electing them.
So, we must like them? No?
Or is it the petty partisan warfare that (by design) almost guarantees their incumbency.
Perhaps we should give some other valid candidate a chance?
But, more importantly, if they are irresponsible too, they should be voted our (or recalled) too.
So, how about electing someone that hasn’t already proven to be irresponsible, bought-and-paid-for, crooked, looks the other way, votes on pork-barrel, graft, and corporate welfare, panders, and lies.
Party bigots are so afraid of the other party (when there truly few important differences), and so consumed with partisan warfare, they have forgotten the one simple thing they were supposed to be doing all along.

What good are parties if both are full of irresponsible, corrupt, pandering, bought-and-paid-for, selfish, crooked, and lying incumbent politicians?

Perhaps pullin’ the party lever, and votin’ straight ticket is not such a smart thing to do. Sure, the politicians like it.

I’ve checked the records and behavior of my Senators and Representatives, and they are irresponsible.
So, they are not getting my vote.
Not just because they are incumbents.
Because they are irresponsible.
They vote against campaign finance reform.
They vote against lots of no-brainer, common-sense reforms.
They refuse election reforms.
They refuse to be fiscally responsible.
They fuel petty partisan warfare, fooling the voters, so that a majority can never exist to vote out the irresponsible incumbents, who take turns being irresponsible. And, if they get voted out, they become big-money lobbyists, and still wreak havoc and corruption all over.
Want to know how to stop that?
Just do what we were always supposed to do.

  • Stop Repeat Offenders.

  • Don’t Re-Elect Them !

Here’s what we need:

Keep votin’ out irresponsible incumbents, always.
That’s what we’re supposed to do.
Keep the good ones (there’s damn few at the moment, if any).

Posted by: d.a.n at July 15, 2006 4:49 PM
Comment #167883

—d.a.n— How do you recommend removing the stigma of each States population, believing that the Bad Politicians are not in their State, but from all the other States? Coming up with a solution to this
big problem may a good place to start! Unless people are made to realise, some of their Politicians,
should be changed, your effort, may slim to none.

Posted by: DAVID at July 15, 2006 6:34 PM
Comment #167885

d.a.n—One more thing, with all the junk bills passed in the past few years none, included any
major changes in one of our basic rights to
have a guarantee that our vote will be counted
an kept in a safe an secure place. There should also be a place to check too see that our vote was counted!

Posted by: DAVID at July 15, 2006 7:19 PM
Comment #167919

DAVID,

Don’t worry.
I am confident that some day, voters will realize that they are responsible too, and start voting out irresponsible incumbent politicians, because the pain and misery of their own negligence and apathy will give them all the motivation they need.

Education is needed.

Pain and misery is a good educator.

The sooner the better. But, when things get bad enough, they will rise up and do the one simple thing they were supposed to do all along. Vote out the cheaters.
Now, we could avoid a lot of pain and misery, if people become Educated enough, soon enough.
But, voters are hypocrites if they keep complaining about irresponsible, corrupt government, but keep re-electing them.
And that is what they are doing, as you can see above from the high incumbency rates.

Politicians are not accountable, because they don’t have to be. In fact, they can be pretty damn crooked, and easily retain their cu$hy incumbencies.

Voters only have themselves to thank for their corrupt, irresponsible government, because they keep re-electing them, and empowering them. Voters have programmed politicians to be irresponsible by rewarding them for irresponsible behavior.

I’m confident that when the greed reaches a certain point, voters will figure it out. But, that might be a while. Currently, voters are slow, apathetic, and lazy, because their pain levels are not high enough yet. The bad part is that by the time their pain level is severe, it will be too late to prevent it from lasting a long, long time.

Posted by: d.a.n at July 15, 2006 10:31 PM
Comment #167920

DAVID,

See my page about election reform.

You are right absolutely !
You should be able to verify your vote.
Transparency is needed.
That could easily be done by providing voters a randomly generated receipt number that matches their vote that is printed in the newspaper and published on the internet.

It’s that simple.

But politicians don’t want it, because they want to perpetuate the voter fraud. The want the illegal aliens votes too. Irresponsible incumbent politicians resist reforms of any kind that may reduce their opportunities for self gain, or reduce the security of their cu$hy incumbencies.

Posted by: d.a.n at July 15, 2006 10:36 PM
Comment #167961

—d.a.n — Were on the same wavelength ,getting passed in law will be a great thing!

Good Luck

Posted by: DAVID at July 16, 2006 2:36 AM
Comment #168008

Oh, I know what ya mean.
It may not happen anytime soon.
Unfortunately, the voters must learn the hard way (again), even though the simple, logical, non-partisan, responsible solution is right under their very own noses.
When the pain and misery gets bad enough, they will suddenly become interested.
The question is what form will it take?

  • Will voters simply do the simple thing voters were always supposed to do, all along (vote out bad politicians) ?

  • or wait too long, and possibly risk long-term oppression (like Russia did, like N.Korea, like many middle eastern regimes, etc.) ?

  • and risk civil unrest, civil war, revolution, or worse (possibly the gradual disappearance of the U.S., or a gradual demise into mediocrity) ?
  • Posted by: d.a.n at July 16, 2006 10:55 AM
    Comment #168049

    Bill S,

    I can tell this blog is dying off, but I hope you’re still reading this. Your response about “hawks” is pretty maddening. 40,000 allied troops died on the beaches of Normandy to keep France from falling into Nazi hands. Was that not worth it? Could it have been done without losing a single life? Where would you have drawn the line, in terms of casualties? Is the freedom of 27 million people in Iraq not worth fighting for? Is our own freedom not worth fighting for? Where do you draw the line? It slays me that you think that if the US lays down it’s arms the rest of the world will follow.

    I hope liberals stick to that message, because it will ensure only rational people prevail in upcoming elections.

    -GK

    Posted by: G.K. at July 16, 2006 2:20 PM
    Comment #168094

    GK; Do not put words in my mouth. I was talking specifically about Vietnam. It was a waste. Robert MacNamera, its chief architect agrees.

    The arguement that we went into Iraq to free them is so full of holes I do not know where to begin. It was and is for control of oil. Some of the more estute conservaive commentators on this blog agree. Where we differ is to whether that is a suitable goal. They believe it is . I believe should instead develope alternatives to forign dependance. Tie a yellow ribbon around a gas pump.

    Posted by: BillS at July 16, 2006 8:03 PM
    Comment #168138

    Lieberman for one thing is hanging on Bushs coat tail, that is one reason he will lose his office.
    The Demos have great ideals for helping the country. They know how to use their brains to get the jobs done that need doing. Al Gore has more smarts in his little finger than bush ever has in his head.We need all the new demos coming into office to get this country back to a God loving , lawbiding place to live, and the Demos know how to do that without a scare campaign .
    they can come up with solutions to get this country back on track and cut spending, get insurance for the children. And more special how to use decorum and diplomaccy to help prevent a war in the middle east if it could just wait until after the elections.Democraats like peace and they know how to talk to the people in the other countries to bring a peaceful end to this stuff that is going on now.It would never have gotten this far under Bil Clinton.And we would not have this war in Iraq , that is killing service men and women.Not to mention how many Iraqs that has been killed in the name of
    democracy.
    Democrates are God loving people also and they know God” says thou Shall not kill.”
    Oil and coal is causing Gobal warming and killing the world as we know it every day.We need some one in the W.H. that believes in Science that will work with them to stop or slow down global warming, before it kills us all.Oil and big business is pushing this counrty back in the dark ages every day in the week.

    Posted by: Suzieq at July 17, 2006 12:59 AM
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