Democrats & Liberals Archives

Wasting Taxpayers dollars (101): This waste must end

When the Senate takes to the floor this week, a proposed amendment banning flag (link) burning, I hope that every member of Congress and the Senate, who pushed this piece of legislation through, deserves to spend time in jail.

I hope that I am clear enough for everyone. I am wishing a long, painful, sentence on the members of the Congress and Senate that waste taxpayer dollars on political crap such as a constitutional amendment banning the burning of the American flag.

If it’s not wasting taxpayer dollars on other crap legislation like constitutional amendments banning gay marriage or dealing with the violence in video games, Congress and Senate blow dollar after dollar trying use legislation as a medical device to resuscitate Terry Schiavo. UGH!

Before anyone actually wastes the physical effort of typing in a response supporting this flag burning crap, I suggest you take a deep breath and think a little about what would be the ramifications if such a stupid, inane and uttering contemptuous amendment would look like. Bill Pollman wrote an interesting piece on this (link). This is political pandering at its worst; to support it would be ridiculous.

It’s not like this country doesn’t have real pressing and critical issues at hand that we have time to waste on crap like flag-burning. What happened to disaster-relief, gas and energy prices, health-care, social security, the ever growing deficit and the time bomb also known as the national debt?

Forget the hypocrisy when the very same conservative members of Congress that scream loudly through their flag-draped bullhorn “We’re at war!!!” at the Democrats when violations of civil liberties are exposed but in the same breath, they drop that mantra when they need to get votes from their ultra-conservative base. What changed? Did the war end and flag-burning become the nation’s top national priority? Nope. It’s just election-year crap. And majority party is wasting taxpayer dollars like there’s no tomorrow.

Thomas Jefferson said that every generation needs a revolution; so where’s a good revolution when you need one? It’s time that representatives stop this nonsense on both sides. It’s time to get back to work. And if the representatives aren’t going to get back to work to do the nations work, then we, as citizens should force them out of office and vote in someone that will actually work for its citizens; this waste must end.

I urge every American citizen, Democrat/Republican/Independent/your party-goes-here, to barrage your representatives with loud and clear messages that you’re sick and tired of this Congress wasting taxpayer dollars on political shenanigans and you want it to stop or else you’re out.

If not, I guess I can always hope for the jail thing.

Posted by john trevisani at June 27, 2006 8:24 AM
Comments
Comment #162166

What I think is funny is that you can’t burn the American flag but yet it’s okay to burn other countries flags… isn’t that being hyprocritical?

This country is the one that’s really going down in flames.

-Einghf

Posted by: Einghf at June 27, 2006 8:52 AM
Comment #162168

john,

What I find repulsive, is your wish of ill-will and harm to all who may support this. I thought you were the party that was anti-hate? (maybe it is conditional?)

Everyone, (including you, me and congress) is entitled to their own sometimes stupid opinion.

NO ONE, should desire harm to innocent people. (BTW, I think we are calling these people who do deire harm to others, terrorists)

Posted by: Cliff at June 27, 2006 9:04 AM
Comment #162169

Bush and the GOP i.e., The American Taliban, have nothing valid to run on so they act like spoiled children about to lose dessert after a temper tantrum during dinner. Remember Freedom Fries?

I don’t understand why they are in such a a tizzy. After all they still have voter fraud to fall back on…again!!!

Posted by: Peter at June 27, 2006 9:06 AM
Comment #162170

Cliff:
Yes, my opinion is strong, passionate and off-color. Parsing my comments, you should find that i wrote, anyone PUSHING THIS LEGISLATION through is the subject of the pain, not people who support this legislation. i said that anyone supporting this legislation was stupid. (do you see the difference?)

So please, go back and re-read my comments. i’m sure that you misunderstood the post.

Posted by: john trevisani at June 27, 2006 9:12 AM
Comment #162180

Of all the issues confronting this country this is the one hot button issue that supersedes everything?

This is pandering, plain and simple.

As this once grand country circles the drain, this is the best the republicans can do?

Frankly, I guess we deserve what we get.

Posted by: Rocky at June 27, 2006 9:51 AM
Comment #162181

I wonder…

what if I burned a copy of the Declaration of Independence, or the Constitution even!? And what about Uncle Sam, all dressed up in his stars and stripes - if I burned a mannequin of him, would that be the same? Or if I just wrote about it, or talked about it, would that be Conspiracy to Burn a Flag?

Will this be an Amendment, right up there in importance with the Protection of (Heterosexual) Marriage from Gay Marriages Amendment?

Gee, our Divine Leaders could spend a whole week on this and Parade It about on the 4th of July! How appropriate, how grandiose, how grandstanding of Them.

Now, back to the real issues…

Posted by: myles at June 27, 2006 9:55 AM
Comment #162183

While I agree whole-heartedly that flag-burning amendments and the like are a colossal waste of time and money, wishing terminal cancer on anyone is just not funny. Not at all. Have you spent any time with people dying from cancer? That’s a hell of a thing to wish on anyone.

For me, any strength your argument had was pretty much cancelled out by the callousness of that remark.

Posted by: Trish at June 27, 2006 9:59 AM
Comment #162186

Whats the matter JT? The “blame Bush for everything” strategy not working as well as you all thought it would be?
Are you guys so afraid of losing another election that you must now sink to calling the oppositions platform “crap?”
Sure there are more pressing issues, but that doesn’t mean the right should stop supporting the platform they were elected on.

Posted by: kctim at June 27, 2006 10:07 AM
Comment #162189

kctim,

Priorities, son, priorities.

Posted by: Rocky at June 27, 2006 10:10 AM
Comment #162192

I trust, Mr. Trevisani, that in the future you will be supporting the Libertarian Party??

Posted by: tim lebsack at June 27, 2006 10:13 AM
Comment #162195

Rocky
Yes, the priority of the left is to void all the issues that got the right elected.
I am sure you have seen how everytime someone mentions guns, gay-marriage, flag burning etc… somebody from the left immediately starts in with “who cares, there is an illegal war going on” or “Bush lied.”
It’s actually quite amusing to see them scrambling to try and hide their weak points.

Posted by: kctim at June 27, 2006 10:24 AM
Comment #162200

Johm: A bit strong. How about wishing them atheletes foot or head lice.
Perhaps we could add an amendment that also prohibits burning Iraqi civilians.

Posted by: BillS at June 27, 2006 10:31 AM
Comment #162201

John,

I understood your sarcasm, but why a cancer analogy? Why wish for harm? There are better words to choose from that would get your meaning across other then wishing they would die a horrible death. My comments still stand…

Posted by: Cliff at June 27, 2006 10:32 AM
Comment #162203

john trevisani:

I don’t support the flag burning amendment. Personally, I don’t have much energy on this issue—I don’t care much either way. I disagree with those who would burn the flag of their country—I can understand if they disagree with government policies etc, but the flag is a symbol of America. By burning it, it seems to me they are burning their tie to America as a country, and not just commenting on the policies of our country’s government.

I am wishing a long, painful, cancer-ridden suffering on the members of the Congress and Senate that waste taxpayer dollars on political crap such as a constitutional amendment banning the burning of the American flag.

This is one of the most vile and hateful things I’ve seen said on Watchblog. My father died of cancer. My stepfather died of cancer. My mother is in chemotherapy for cancer. My brother and sister-in-law have faced cancer. That you would so blithely wish this on anyone is a horrible thing to do. Cancer ravages people, and while you may not have experienced the outcomes of it, I have seen it firsthand, and it is not pretty.

I recognize that you may have made your strong statement in an attempt to get people’s attention. It worked, but only in the way that a young child having a temper tantrum in a store gets attention—negative attention. You crossed the line, and should retract and apologize for your statement. I see no benefit in such a hateful and hurtful statement—it has no good side to it.

It takes little intelligence to use hate as a means of proclaiming your point. On the other hand, it does take humanity to apologize for having gone too far. The path you choose will say much about you. Choose well.

Posted by: joebagodonuts at June 27, 2006 10:36 AM
Comment #162204

I can only wonder. It is a common sight where I come from, to see people flying flags ragged or in the rain.

This flag represents more than just itself. It represents the Republic, and everything behind that, including the right to burn the flag in protest, or revere it in honor.

We cannot make the flag sacred by making its desecration a crime. We only make it sacred by honoring what it stands for.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at June 27, 2006 10:38 AM
Comment #162213

Indeed, Stephen, indeed.

John, I stand in-line with those above, saying your comments are way beyond the bounds of common decency in debate here.

I respect the right to your opinion, but I think that WatchBlog ought to pony up some dollars to sit you next to Ozzie Guien in sensitivity class.

Posted by: Rob at June 27, 2006 11:02 AM
Comment #162214

A right to protest and burn the US flag is a freedom that
our founding father fought and died for.

It may not be right, but in a democracy, that right is
still called freedom.

Bush and his dictatorship can lick my nuts.

Posted by: Sonny! at June 27, 2006 11:03 AM
Comment #162216

Thanks to the majority of the American people falling out of favor with the incompetence of President Bush and his failed policies, the Republicans are playing the only card they have left: morality. From gay marriage to flag burning to video game violence, the transparanet moral compass of the right is desperate to regain favor with the only constituents they have left — the far right. Everyone else, I suspect, will see through this obvious charade that’s being played and will expect, come November, their elected representatives to spend time on issues already dividing this nation instead of creating new, self-serving issues that deepen those divisions.

Posted by: scoreggi at June 27, 2006 11:03 AM
Comment #162218

Any constitutional scholars out there. Would this amendment open up the Constitution for other changes like an abortion ban or allowing Bush to run again? Would it create another Constitutional convention?

Posted by: BillS at June 27, 2006 11:06 AM
Comment #162220

I have an idea for all you overgrown, draft-dodging throwbacks from the 60’s, why don’t you burn yourselves instead of the flag? Talk about freedom of expression.

I’d buy tickets to see that one.

Or you could just go live somewhere else.

Where is Joe McCarthy when you really need him?

Posted by: Muldraker at June 27, 2006 11:07 AM
Comment #162222

joe:cliff:trish:
My father, mother had cancer and are recovering. My aunt and uncle are recovering and have had aunts and uncles that have died from cancer. But that’s not the point, and to get this discussion back to point, i have listened to your objections and i edited the piece. Accept my apologies if i offended anyone.


Posted by: john trevisani at June 27, 2006 11:16 AM
Comment #162223

“Where is Joe McCarthy when you really need him?”

“Tailgunner” Joe is in the crapper of history, where he belongs.

Posted by: Rocky at June 27, 2006 11:16 AM
Comment #162225

I want to propose that any Congressman or Senator proposing or pushing this legislation (CRAP!) should be:

- wrapped in his own flag

- sodomized my young 14 year old boys (as part of their gay-agenda training)

- tar and feathered by all three muslim non-terrorists who live in America

- sent south of the border to be beaten as a pinata by illegal immigrants as they leave on their way to a better life in America

Posted by: tony at June 27, 2006 11:20 AM
Comment #162241

I think people should be free to burn the flag anyplace they are allowed to burn leaves or paper.

Of course, we need an addition to the law. Anyone should be free to burn the flag, but we should not prosecute anyone who kicks his ass when he does it. That kind of takes care of both sides of the issue.

Posted by: Jack at June 27, 2006 12:17 PM
Comment #162249

john:

Thanks for the retraction and editing. I’m glad you chose that path.

If I’m correct, using the flag as anything but a flag is technically desecrating it. For instance, using a flag replica as a patch for jeans would be considered improper. There are many questions of what kind of use a flag or flag replica should be allowed.

I just don’t see it as that important. I’ve always looked at people who want to slur me by calling names as lowering themselves. If I choose not to be offended by a slur, then it hasn’t really been offensive to me. I feel the same way about the flag burning. I just cant get too worked up about a person whose most deepfelt and thoughtful action regarding our country is to burn an inanimate object. It says so much more about that particular person than anything else.

Posted by: joebagodonuts at June 27, 2006 12:37 PM
Comment #162254

I just can not believe this crap. Listening to the Liberal democrats you would think it is the end of the world. The sky is falling the sky is falling, Chicken Little syndrome is set deep into the mine of most liberals and leftist. They are no civil rights being taking away by the Bush administration and President Bush is not a Hitler clone. And the only people that think this is Joe McCarthy era all over are paranoid. Gee you people are so negativity and pessimistic is beyond belief. There are more important things for the House and Senate to do than worry about the flag burning constitutional amendment yes, but it is not wasting time, the House and Senate can do more than one thing at a time. So they spend a little bit of time debating a flag burning amendment so what.

What you are advocating is the impossible and falls under the category of ‘if we live in a perfect world’ category. It is a real waste of your time thinking that you can get the United States Congress to not be a political body and only tackle the real serious problems of our time with open and honest debate. Let me clue you in, open and honest debates with out partisanship on the important matters that face this country in the United States Congress are rare.

One would think that the number one job of Congress is to represent the people’s wishes from the district or state they were elected but we all know that there real number one job is to get reelected. In the mind of a congress person, democrat or republican it does not matter, they come first. Wasting Taxpayers dollars is part of there pandering to get votes to be reelected and we are not going to stop that from happening period.

There is no reason to be cynical about the way Congress operates just accept reality and work with the system we have. You are not the first person that has wished better from our congress. The key word is wished because that is all it will ever be.

Posted by: Mr. Right at June 27, 2006 12:45 PM
Comment #162257

If Congress needs something to occupy their time, how about using the oversight function that is part of their responsibility? An investigation into alleged corrupt spending in Iraq and Katrina relief could result in saving the taxpayers potentially hundreds of billions of dollars and putting the criminals who would bilk us of that money in jail. Yet Congress voted down a bill earlier this month to launch such investigations. It is very clear that they have no interest in saving taxpayers money (or putting criminals in jail). This little amendment ploy of theirs, while wasteful, is chicken feed by comparison.

To give these amendment pundits the benefit of the doubt, you might say that they are just guilty of human nature. We all do it to some degree—rather than tackling the really big jobs, we waste our time on the little things that we (a) enjoy doing and (b) can actually complete without much stress.

But I, for one, never like to give the Neo-Cons the benefit of the doubt on anything and always look for a Rovian plot. And the certainly is one here. Their plan seems to be:

1. Put Democrats who vote against these amendments on the spot. They knew they didn’t have enough votes to pass the ban on gay-marriage amendment. They may not have enough to pass the ban flag-burning amendment either. What they intend doing is using the Democrats votes against them in their local races. That reduces the future local races to the types of name-calling issues the GOP seems to love. And the public and press seems to give them carte blanche to shape the races in this way. Therefore, a Democratic incumbent might have to fight a battle in which he is accused of being soft on flag burners (or worse, in favor of flag burning), rather than on core issues.

2. Give Republican voters, who have become apathetic because of the on-going mess in Iraq and the growing deficit, a rallying point to go out and vote. Under the best Neo-Con scenario, there would actually be an amendment pending that each state must ratify through a vote, which shapes local debate and draws voters to the polls. But even without that, if they can reduce a local race to a choice between patriotism and liberal excess (see point #1 above), they can get people riled up enough to vote.

3. Give the media something other than Iraq to report on. The American press seems all too willing to go along with these ridiculous distractions.

Not a bad political ploy on their part. The problem is that the Democrats seem to always want to take the high road, and discuss the real, meaningful issues, and are forced to continually defend themselves against absurd attacks. Despicable as the tactic may be, perhaps it’s time the Dems floated some of their own rallying points and put the GOP on their tails for a change.

1. An amendment to guarantee the right of each person to choose his or her medical treatment without government interference.

2. An amendment to guarantee the right of each person to do what they want to do in their own home without government interference (as long as they are not violating the rights or safety of others).

3. An amendment requiring elected officials to investigate all allegations of war profiteering and report all known abuses.

Make the Republicans take a stand that can later be used against them in local races. A waste of Congress’s time? Perhaps. But the public and our watchdog press doesn’t seem to care if they waste time on such issues. So perhaps the best thing the Democrats can do is fight back in the same manner.

Posted by: Stan at June 27, 2006 12:51 PM
Comment #162259

Geez Stan. Two of the three “solutions” you pose for the Dems would favor the Republicans.
Perhaps the best thing for the Dems to do would be to re-evaluate their platform to fit what voters want? That way, the Dems don’t have to sit around and HOPE that the American people will vote for them.

Posted by: kctim at June 27, 2006 12:59 PM
Comment #162264

Seem number 3 would have a big tendency to back-fire into swift boat like proportions. We pass the ammendment, then every crazy comes out of the wood work to demand investigations into the Kennedy clan, then the Bush clan, then the Clinton family, then the McCain family, etc., etc.

At least with the flag-burning ammendment all we get is some unconsionable, largely unenforceable laws. With the mandate to investigate allegations of war profiting we get a MAD scenario between the parties.

As I’ve said before here, I think the gay marriage ammendment is a horrible cause for Republicans to endorse, but I do think forcing the debate in the front does more to help gay Americans that deserve the right to marriage more than keeping it in the closet. When the ballot initiatives passed in 2004, it was with broad bi-partisan support in most cases. Given the opinion polls recently, support seems to be waning increasingly among Democrat voters and slightly among Republican voters. Keep the debate in the front and people will get more used to the idea. Keep it in the corner, and people will be free to ignore it and not challenge their own thoughts.

As to the main thrust of the article, is Congress doing silly electionering things, yes. Do they deserve jail, not unless we are willing to put political pork barreling under the same category.

Posted by: Rob at June 27, 2006 1:10 PM
Comment #162266

John-
Less federal government.

Less business regulation that prevent us from
keeping and creating well paying American jobs
Vote Libertarian,kick out the deadwood.
The revolution that this generation needs,
LESS IS MORE!

Posted by: jblym at June 27, 2006 1:13 PM
Comment #162267

joebagodonuts-
just as an aside-
can anyone who calls himself joebagodonuts ever be offended by name calling?
just trying to get the HOLE story

Posted by: jblym at June 27, 2006 1:16 PM
Comment #162271

I guess my 2-ply stars & stripes bathroom tissue isn’t going to fly?

(Sorry for the obnoxious humor, but I can’t see any other legitimate reply to such stupid legislation.)

Posted by: tony at June 27, 2006 1:19 PM
Comment #162277

mr. Right

- tell the 12 families who lost their sons or daughters in Iraq & Afg. that Congress was not wasting their time and OUR resources

- how about the 33 million people without health coverage

- how about homeless military vets (1/3 of the homeless US population)

- this Flag Burning distraction allowed another $12 billion to be added to our national deficit

- North Korea is creeping towards the launch pad with a missle that can hit US soil…

- maybe look at the Israeli soldiers ready to cross back into the Gaza Strip

- what about 10,000s of people still displaced from New Orleans…

Should I keep going?

Posted by: tony at June 27, 2006 1:25 PM
Comment #162278

Stan - Such an amendment would be absurd and bull shit. You should never force investigation on allegations alone. Anyone can make up crap allegations and use it as a political tool then both sides would be making bull shit allegations right and left and the law would require congress to investigate wasting time and money and it would be one BS investigation after another.

Sorry but the only way to determine if an allegation warrants an investigation is thru congressional committee not law because you can not write an amendment that knows the different between legitimate and Bull Shit.

That is why we have election, to elect people that know the difference between legitimate and Bull Shit, if they do not know the difference we get to elected new people next election. If you do not like the makeup of current congressional committee members we can change it thru the power of the vote that is how it works.

Posted by: Mr. Right at June 27, 2006 1:28 PM
Comment #162280

jblym:

I typically don’t mind people calling me names—I do admit to getting exercised when people call other people names. Don’t know why that is, but sort of a ‘fair-play’ mindset, I guess.

An old boss of mine used the term ‘joebagodonuts’ as a description of generic people. Instead of saying “any Tom, Dick or Harry”, he used to say “any joebagodonuts”. So I adopted it with tongue firmly in cheek as a way of reminding myself that I am just an ordinary guy—one of many standing in the crowd, not above the crowd.
The boss was Italian from a strong Italian community—perhaps it was a saying peculiar to his cultural upbringing.

It’s my name, but I freely admit the plagiarism of it. He’d be proud to know I still use it.

Posted by: joebagodonuts at June 27, 2006 1:32 PM
Comment #162281

—I would like to know where all this rage was when we were taken into a war based on prefabrication’s draped on the honor of defending our flag of our democracy. Where is all your rage when some of our politician’s drape themselves behind the very foundation of what our flag stands for, committing crimes against our citizenry. Where is your rage, when the head of our senate is leading this flag amendment debate may be indicated himself. When you live in a glass house you should not throw stones!

Posted by: DAVID at June 27, 2006 1:33 PM
Comment #162298

Tony,

Your list of critical items has been around for 50 plus years…They are never solved completely and are always with us…

So, just what is your point?

Posted by: Cliff at June 27, 2006 2:11 PM
Comment #162301

DAVID,

Where is your rage against those who falsely accuse people?

Where is your rage against those who deny the facts of a situation because it does not fit the ideology?

When you live in a grass hut, you should not play with matches.

Posted by: Discerner at June 27, 2006 2:15 PM
Comment #162305

“Your list of critical items has been around for 50 plus years…They are never solved completely and are always with us…”

Huh? Name one that I mentioned that’s been around for 50 years…

These are present day IMMEDIATE concerns… that obviously trumps some BS political football of an issue like flag burning. Can you find an example of flag burning that isn’t older than the issues I brought up? I haven’t seen a flag burnt is ages…

Posted by: tony at June 27, 2006 2:22 PM
Comment #162310

Apparently some have taken my post as a serious proposal of constitutional amendments. It is not. I am not qualified to propose meaningful amendments to the constitution and if I were to even try I would take more than 5 minutes to come up with three of them. These were three admittedly wacky examples. My intention was to suggest that the Democrats propose legislation and/or constitutional amendments that put the Republicans in an indefensible position. Expose their hypocrisy by making them take an unpopular stand.

Posted by: Stan at June 27, 2006 2:37 PM
Comment #162312

tony,

Come on…

- families have been losing their sons or daughters in conflicts since the foundation of our country. Is that good?…No…

- there have always been people without health coverage. Is that good?…No…

- there has always been homeless military vets. Is that good?…No…

- this Flag Burning distraction has been talked about since the 60’s

- Some foreign country has been creeping towards the launch pad with a missle that can hit US soil since WWII. Is that good?…No…

- Israeli people have been fighting for their survival since…

- what about 10,000s of people still displaced from New Orleans. (however, there are always these types of problems)
This my friend is a good one…
I am leaving in 2 weeks to take 52 people down to work in New Orleans. This will be my families 3rd trip down to help out. The red tape down there is a tragedy, BTW…most of it is the local governments handywork and short-sightedness…Don’t get me started…

I do not doubt that these issues are relevant…I’m just saying we have had them for a long time.

Posted by: Cliff at June 27, 2006 2:42 PM
Comment #162314

“Expose their hypocrisy by making them take an unpopular stand”

The Republicans have already cornered that market Stan. They expose the hypocrisy of the left at will.
What Democrats need to do is to create a platform that Americans can agree with.

Posted by: kctim at June 27, 2006 2:44 PM
Comment #162315
I am wishing a long, painful, sentence on the members of the Congress and Senate that waste taxpayer dollars on political crap such as a constitutional amendment banning the burning of the American flag.

John:

So, you don’t think Congress should spend time protecting army vets and anyone else who is offended by this nefarious act? You don’t think Conress should discuss an overt act of inflammatory, violent hatred towards this country, and debate taking action against it? You don’t feel like discussing an issue that unequivocally disrespects all that America stands for? You don’t feel impassioned to at least talk about it?

That’s almost as offensive as the act itself…

Posted by: Alex Fitzsimmons at June 27, 2006 2:46 PM
Comment #162316

Alex,

“So, you don’t think Congress should spend time protecting army vets and anyone else who is offended by this nefarious act?”

How about Congress addressing the underfunding of veterans benefits?
How about Congress spending less money on wizz-bang defence systems and more money on actual soldiers?

Posted by: Rocky at June 27, 2006 2:53 PM
Comment #162318

Alex: Last year flag burning in protest occured exactly three times. What we are watching is so much hot air. I have heard it called a WMD. Weapon of mass distraction. You do not think they could find something more important to do?

Posted by: BillS at June 27, 2006 2:57 PM
Comment #162319

Alex:
To answer your question, no. Congress has better things to do. That’s the point.

The flag may represent to you, your undying loyalty to the United States. And you may even show your respect for the flag by displaying that flag on your front lawn as a show of patriotism. And that is fine for you. You have the right to show that freedom of expression.

But others may see it differently. Others may see the flag as a representation of hatred and bigotry and therefore may have a different view of its representation and what they do with that flag, positive or negative is an example of the same freedom of expression that is afforded to you.

But here’s a secret: it’s not about the flag; it’s pandering.

Posted by: john trevisani at June 27, 2006 3:01 PM
Comment #162320


Many veterans are offended by someone burning the American flag. Many veterans may not like it but they know it is part of defending the Constitution.

Some say America, love it or leave it. others say America, change it or loose it.

Some see a peace sign and call it the footprint of the American chicken. Others see a peace sign and think peace on earth good will to men.

Do they all have something in common?

Posted by: jlw at June 27, 2006 3:01 PM
Comment #162322

Rocky and BillS:

3 times? Who reported that? And just becasue there were only three reported incidents doesn’t mean it isn’t occuring more frequently.

How about Congress addressing the underfunding of veterans benefits? How about Congress spending less money on wizz-bang defence systems and more money on actual soldiers?

Rocky, I’m not saying we shouldn’t be spending time on these issue, all I’m saying is that flag burning is a legitimate concern, if for nothing else, then for pride and respect for this great country. Also, who says Congress can’t talk about defense systems, veteran benefits and flag burning simultaneously?

Posted by: Alex Fitzsimmons at June 27, 2006 3:05 PM
Comment #162333

Cliff—

I’m also sure that politicians have been wasting time on crap legislation for more than 50 years… but what’s your point.

Every single item I posted is of of grave concern to America… today… now! This flag burning constituion (along with it’s counter - part the week before) is politics at the expense of immediate need. It is ABSOLUTE crap.

That’s my point.

Posted by: tony at June 27, 2006 3:28 PM
Comment #162346

tony,

There have always been important things (grave concerns) to take care of and there is always “crap” legislation going on at the same time…
So what!!!

What is crap to you is someone elses fertilizer…

Posted by: Cliff at June 27, 2006 3:52 PM
Comment #162350

Cliff
Well said.
The left knows it can’t win if wedge issues take over. So, in order to win, they must trivialize or negate the wedge issues, much as they do with any positive that may come out of Iraq.
Its about votes!

Posted by: kctim at June 27, 2006 3:57 PM
Comment #162351

John,

I agree completely. This is a smoke screen. But you should be careful about using words like “Revolution” and “Force” in your text. Although it may be a sound analogy, big brother is watching.

Posted by: fuzzwart at June 27, 2006 3:57 PM
Comment #162356

Cliff -

So your point is that this is crap legislation - for the sole purpose of getting votes… they waste their time and OUR resources with this crap, but hey… it’s nothing new so don’t worry about it? If you agree that these are grave concerns and that this is crap legislation, why do you come across like you are arguing against my point? You seem to agree with me on everything except that point that wasting Congressional time is a bad thing.

kctim -

You prop up the virtues of “wedge issues” and then attempt to knock the left for being all otu the votes? What exactly do you think wedge issues are all about? Seriously…

Posted by: tony at June 27, 2006 4:07 PM
Comment #162365

Let’s fix some REAL problems that exist…e.g., the following, which is costing all of us (as is our entire medical “establishment” and non-negotiable drug pricing…along with sinful profits of health insurance companies ($87 million PROFIT for Humana for first quarter 2006) and insane hospital profits like the following:

The Orthopaedic Hospital of Wisconsin made nearly 52 cents in profit on every dollar it took in last year, making it the most profitable hospital and maybe one of the most profitable businesses in the Milwaukee area.

Posted by: Lynne at June 27, 2006 4:17 PM
Comment #162375

—Discerner - I believe your side on the (R) are the folks who got their fingers burned an you can answer all your questions with a question if you like, free speech and all, but just Plain old Spin, is sch-ear ignorance.

Posted by: DAVID at June 27, 2006 4:27 PM
Comment #162395

DAVID,

I expected this reply from you…

Your questions were NOT questions, they were presupposition at best and not of an honest inquiry. Your desire is not to know the facts, but only to reinforce what you wish to believe.

My main question to you however, begs for a simple answer…

Where is your rage against those who falsely accuse people?

Posted by: Discerner at June 27, 2006 5:02 PM
Comment #162418

Tony
“You prop up the virtues of “wedge issues” and then attempt to knock the left for being all otu the votes? What exactly do you think wedge issues are all about? Seriously…”

Wedge issues are also about getting votes.
IMO, most people don’t believe Iraq or the debt would be any different if a Dem were in office and there is a good chance that wedge issues may, yet again, determine the outcome of some elections.
The Republicans are slowly trying to remind their voters that the wedge issues are still a part of their agenda.
The Democrats don’t want these wedge issues to be a factor in the elections, so they will try to ignore or downplay their importance.

“Anybody but Bush” didn’t work and “We voted for the war but are really against” might not be enough either.

Posted by: kctim at June 27, 2006 5:32 PM
Comment #162425

Discerner—Show me who I falsely accused.

Posted by: DAVID at June 27, 2006 5:44 PM
Comment #162460

Yahoo! Alerts Yahoo! News - My Alerts - Edit Alert
Tuesday, June 27, 2006, 3:32 PM PDT
WASHINGTON (AP) The Senate has rejected a constitutional amendment to ban flag desecration

Posted by: Sandra Davidson at June 27, 2006 6:42 PM
Comment #162582

John,
It is a simple rule for the Republicans controling the White House and Congress. That is not the real Republicans but the ultra conservatives who have stolen the GOP. When you get caught with you hands in the “cookie jar”, vote down a minimum wage increase, give more tax breaks to the mega wealthy etc. you simply drag out the old protect us from the flag burners ammendment and protect our straight marriages from gays ammendment.

IT IS A WONDERFUL ORCHESTRATED SMOKE SCREEN and there are many Americans who still believe that the Republicans care for them and their ideals. P.T. was correct, they are born every minute.

But this is just from a Godless, US. hating, unpatriotic, baby killing, tree hugging etc Democrat. This the true CRAP that acting President Rove, Sean and Ann are spreading about anyone who is a Democrat and especially liberal. Again there will be many people who will believe anything as long as you package it in a conservative label and claim to love our Country.

Posted by: C.T. Rich at June 28, 2006 12:23 AM
Comment #162591

Alex: Sorry. That three times was from a pro=flagburning amendmant group. I recycled the artical and cannot recall their name. I understand that there were seven more burned in an act of vandelism somwhere. Still not an epidemic.
Interesting that the only allowable way to dispose of a flag is by burning. Groups like the Boy Scouts retire hundreds of flags a year by burning. The only difference in the acts is in the minds of the burners. So what people are thinking should determine if it is a criminal act?Do you want to live in a country that punishes thought?

Posted by: BillS at June 28, 2006 12:52 AM
Comment #162621

—All the (R) spin casters taking most of the day an all the evening spitting all this venom, maybe you could try an be civil an give us three of the greatest accomplishments of the current administration with out any spin.

Posted by: DAVID at June 28, 2006 3:27 AM
Comment #162640

“We are rightfully outraged when anyone attacks or desecrates our flag. Few Americans do such things and when they do they are subject to the rightful condemnation of their fellow citizens. They may be destroying a piece of cloth, but they do no damage to our system of freedom which tolerates such desecration… .
I understand how strongly so many of my fellow veterans and citizens feel about the flag… . I feel the same sense of outrage. But I step back from amending the Constitution to relieve that outrage. The First Amendment exists to insure that freedom of speech and expression applies not just to that with which we agree or disagree, but also that which we find outrageous.

I would not amend that great shield of democracy to hammer a few miscreants. The flag will still be flying proudly, long after they have slunk away.”

—- Colin Powell

Posted by: tony at June 28, 2006 7:01 AM
Comment #162685

John, thanks for the rewrite.

Posted by: Trish at June 28, 2006 10:35 AM
Comment #162898

John; I agree with everything in this post, but look at history! Virtually every law passed by congress in the last 20 years has made things worse! No matter how good they sounded, they either were poorly drafted, or we were decieved, or both! I believe one of the main reasons that Bill Clinton was the best president we ever had, since I have been paying attention (since Ike), is that the impeachment stopped most other congressional business! This administration is the worst! Everything that they pass makes things worse, this is why I support impeachment of this president, it would slow down their agenda! Blue sky, Iraq, No child left behind, Port security, Medicare reform, estate tax reform, Patriot act, tax cuts for the rich, Homeland security….! Need I go on? I say, let them waste time and yes our money on worthless bills that do nothing! Otherwise they will be passing bills that “Goose step” all over out rights, take our jobs, lower our standard of living, take from the middle class and the poor and give to the rich and big corporations, unjustified wars, MORE dept…! Need I go on? The more time they waste, the less time they spend sticking it to us!

Posted by: Jim Soric at June 28, 2006 6:28 PM
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