Democrats & Liberals Archives

Dog Bites Man in California's 50th

The results are in from the special election in California’s 50th congressional district: Brian Bilbray (R) won. Although it is not a surprise for a Republican to win in a solidly-Republican district, this will no doubt be interpreted as a sign that the GOP will keep control of House. There are many variables at play in this one, however, and the voters in 434 other districts still need to speak.

The first big factor, which was seen as helping the Dems, is that the previous congressman in this district, Randy Cunningham (R), was indicted. Clearly, the voters in the district had no problem replacing a corrupt Republican with an apparently clean one. Bilbray is a lobbyist, but go figure. If there is a larger lesson here, it would be that Democrats can't expect the corruption issue to carry them into office by itself.

Another big factor is that the district is practically on the Mexican border, so immigration is obviously going to be an issue. Busby no doubt hurt herself by telling a largely Latino audience on 6/2, "You can all help--you don't need papers for voting, you don't need to be a registered voter to help." If you look at the whole sentence, in no sense is she encouraging illegal aliens to vote. (They wouldn't have been registered anyway.) Inevitably, the GOP, their talk radio allies, and much of the other media just focused on the six words "you don't need papers for voting" and treated it as a complete sentence.

Now, this was essentially Busby's fault. Politicians need to be prepared for their words to be taken out of context. If this was baseball, we would say that Bilbray scored on an error by Busby. The GOP can't count on this kind of luck in every contest.

The media has already referred to this as a "bellwether" election (not knowing the results), implying that it will predict the future. As you have probably noticed, however, the future hasn't arrived yet. If it turns out that the GOP keeps control of the House, we will be able to look back and call it a bellwether. Right now it is just another data point.

In summary, this obviously isn't good news for the Dems, but it isn't horrible news either. Frankly, I hope that Republican politicians see this as a huge victory, because it can only make them all the more complacent.

Posted by Woody Mena at June 7, 2006 7:59 AM
Comments
Comment #155070

Frankly, I never expected Busby to win a conservative district in which registered Republicans outnumbered registered Democrats 3-to-2. Democrats who thought otherwise were unrealistic.

But this is not great news by any means for the Republicans. Although Busby only got 36% of the vote last time out against Cunningham, she got 45% this time and Bilbray won by only about 4%. While the Democrats poured $2M into the race, the Republicans had spend $4M to hold onto the seat.

Their pockets may be deeper than ours but they are not bottomless. In districts where the 2004 Republican margins were smaller, and where Democratic turnout was much lower than Republican turnout, these results should make the Republicans cringe even more. If I am right, then Dean’s every state and every district strategy could force them to spend themselves into the ground and STILL lose the House.

Posted by: Robert Benjamin at June 7, 2006 8:55 AM
Comment #155071

Woody
ummm..if a seat by a Republican congressman caught with his hand in the cookie jar can’t be turned over by the Democrats,I don’t think Nancy Pelosi should get those business cards that say House Speaker printed yet.

Then again,he won by 5600 votes,so I am sure that the ballot box stuffing crowd still has something to say too,right.

Maybe Robert Kennedy should get on the case.

Truth be told,the Republicans are going to fight for every spot in the mid-terms…kinda like a laser beam of energy concentrated on a few select districts.

Of course,nominating dimwits like this Dem candidate who said that illegal immigrants didn’t need papers is a sure way to assure GOP control of both the House and the Senate.

I feel bad for Joe Lieberman…a staunch Dem for decades who is being hung out to dry on one issue only.

That “big” tent is now a “pup” tent and unless you adhere to far left philosophies,you are persona non grata in the Democratic party.

Let’s see what happens as the summer unfolds.

Posted by: sicilianeagle at June 7, 2006 8:56 AM
Comment #155081

Illegal immigration- just another name for “snatching defeat from the jaws of victory” for the Dems this year.

Posted by: j2t2 at June 7, 2006 9:35 AM
Comment #155089
Illegal immigration- just another name for “snatching defeat from the jaws of victory” for the Dems this year.

So what is the right approach on this issue, pray tell? Busby essentially endorsed the Bush plan. Is Bush too far left on this one?

Posted by: Woody Mena at June 7, 2006 9:51 AM
Comment #155091
Although Busby only got 36% of the vote last time out against Cunningham, she got 45% this time and Bilbray won by only about 4%.

Because our media has no interest in data, this crucial information will be lost of the vast majority of pundits and talking heads. Even though they held on to the seat, this is a big drop in support for the Republicans. The big question is if the drop is due to the Cunningham factor or more national issues. Only exit polling can tell us that.

Posted by: Steve K at June 7, 2006 9:52 AM
Comment #155092

j2t2, you’re right in part, but then again, this was in San Diego, by far the largest American city on the Mexican boarder (well, 13 miles north, technically), so should anyone really have been surprised that illegal immigration would be a hot button? It’s not a surprise that a republican won/retained this district, but to rake the House, the Dems have to a) not make blunders that hand the election to the GOP, b) be better prepare for issues that they are perceived to be weaker on, perhaps even taking the initiative on some strong issues of their own (should we dare to dream!), and c) maximize the current GOP weaknesses, especially W’s low approval ratings. But this race does appear to support the axiom that, at the end of the day, maybe all politics really are local.

Posted by: Roscoe at June 7, 2006 9:58 AM
Comment #155094

NRCC spent $4.5 million, but total Repug spending was actually $11 million - that was almost three times what Democrats spent - all that to lose nine percent of the vote in less than two years.

I don’t think the GOP has another $600 million in their pockets for the 54 seats that will be contested in November.

SE, jbod, Jack,

you better start sending that loose change in your pockets to Ken Mehlman!

Posted by: CPAdams at June 7, 2006 10:00 AM
Comment #155097

CPAdams,

The GOP certainly spent a lot of money on this race. Consider that Bilbray is up for reelection in November, you could say they paid $1 million+ plus a month for his House seat. But he might have won even if they didn’t make a big deal about it.

I would caution my fellow lefties against seeing this as any kind of moral victory. It was a loss, and there may be lessons to be learned. What they are I’m not sure yet. One of them is obviously that the candidate matters.

Posted by: Woody Mena at June 7, 2006 10:10 AM
Comment #155098

CP-

I’d wager that the GOP candidate will have more financial resources than the Democrat in at least 80% of the 54 races you mention. It’s $4 to $1 for every local office in my county.

All politics is local, and the GOP took Tip’s advice some 15 years ago and invested in local organization. Howard Dean wants the Democrats to follow suit now, but the “great leaders” (and their consultants) in Washington want to keep a national focus.

If Democrats keep thinking that political parties are about ideology then they will continue to slide. The goal of a political party is to win elections and you be the judge of which strategy above is working.

Posted by: George in SC at June 7, 2006 10:16 AM
Comment #155111

I am depressed.

Posted by: Max at June 7, 2006 10:56 AM
Comment #155117

Woody,

I’ve followed CA-50 from day one. Busby was never considered a strong candidate. I agree we’re not done. I would have preferred the win yesterday, but to choose between feeling complacent and digging in for November, I’ll choose the latter.

I think Republicans feel good about yesterday. They should. I hope they continue to do so.

Posted by: CPAdams at June 7, 2006 11:15 AM
Comment #155120

Max,

Don’t be depressed. Billbray had everything going for him but still only won by 4%. When you have money, the local immigration issue, better campaign skills, outside star power campaigning for you, and historic voting patterns on your side, and STILL can’t win without a struggle, you are in trouble. Thinking Republicans know this and are worried.

Posted by: Robert Benjamin at June 7, 2006 11:33 AM
Comment #155136


I sincerely hope this is finally going to wake the democrats. They have this attitude that the republicans have been so terrible at running the country that all the democrats have to do is tell the truth. Nothing could be further from the truth.

The republicans have made it perfectly clear that they will say anything and do just about anything to win. Lying is just part of the game to them. I have constantly reminded the dems of this but, they still can’t get over the notion that the truth will prevail. As much as I would like to believe that the voters are sophisticated enough to discern the truth, in many instances they are not.

Another fact the dems have to face up to is the republican war chest. It will be loaded this fall. The tax breaks will generate a tremendous amount of cash for the rep’s and the N.R.A. as well as the 700 club will be major collection agency’s for the republicans.

For the republicans this fall, every race will be a local race with hardly a mention of Washington D.C.. To enhance their strategy they will dig up the dirt on every democrat candidate, even the veterans who run. They will stress that although the republicans haven’t been perfect, imagine if the democrats were running things. In other words, the rep’s are bad but the dem’s are worse. The final piece of their equation will be their motto—Remember The Pork. The polls show that the voters think every Congressman is bad except their own. I believe the republicans have a winning strategy. It may not be what is best for the country. It will continue to divide the country. But, the republicans could care less. They know that the name of the game is win by hook or crook. They have the winning strategy and nothing will deter them. It is yet to be seen if the democrats can counter the republican strategy. I sincerely hope so but I doubt it.

Posted by: jlw at June 7, 2006 12:08 PM
Comment #155139

SE,

You can have Joe Lieberman. Just keep him in the basement where you store Zell Miller.

Posted by: Vincent Vega at June 7, 2006 12:16 PM
Comment #155157

Aaron a blog is more than just the author - comments are part of the dialog. But I bet Matt’s just itching to post a few. Vacation and blogging … mix just fine.

Posted by: woaicn at June 7, 2006 12:51 PM
Comment #155159

Another fact the dems have to face up to is the republican war chest. It will be loaded this fall. The tax breaks will generate a tremendous amount of cash for the rep’s and the N.R.A. as well as the 700 club will be major collection agency’s for the republicans.

Posted by: cnfalv at June 7, 2006 12:52 PM
Comment #155160

If the outcome had been different, it would have been news. This is as Woody says, a dog bites man.

However, it does show a ground truth that most races will be decided by local politics. The Dems have failed to nationalize this election as the Republicans did in 1994. They have nobody as smart as Newt. Pelosi just can’t pull it off.

Dems MAY win the House, but it sure is not certain. I would not be surprised by either outcome. My Dem friends should keep this in mind too before counting chickens.

Posted by: Jack at June 7, 2006 12:52 PM
Comment #155173

jlw,

Could it be that the Republicans are finally understanding the Democrats strategy and beating them at there own game?

Posted by: Cliff at June 7, 2006 1:14 PM
Comment #155176

Woody
“I would caution my fellow lefties against seeing this as any kind of moral victory. It was a loss, and there may be lessons to be learned. What they are I’m not sure yet. One of them is obviously that the candidate matters”

Good advice. I also believe you guys need to learn that the candidate matters but I would also add that you need to learn real quick that you are not running against Bush in 08.

Posted by: kctim at June 7, 2006 1:19 PM
Comment #155177

I think the Dems have more or less a 50-50 chance of taking over.

Charlie Cook had an interesting take on this. The title says it all, “Beware of Microscopic Majorities”. He claims that the Democrats may actually be better off staying in the minority (both House and Senate) this time. If they eke out a tiny majority, he claims, they will have no real power but still have to share responsibility with Bush.

Now, if a regular blogger made this type of claim I would not take it very seriously, but Cook knows what he is talking about. I think he may be right about the House, because the House can’t do much by itself (except impeach the president, which I don’t think is advisable). The Senate, on the other hand, has to confirm judges. If Reid can maintain party discipline, even a one-vote majority will be able to keep Bush from putting right-wing extremists on the court. So even that one-vote majority is worth going to the mat for.

This is not say that the Democrats should make anything short of 100% effort to win both houses. Based on recent history, it would be crazy to do otherwise. But if priorities have to be set, I think the Senate is more important.

Posted by: Woody Mena at June 7, 2006 1:23 PM
Comment #155181

Vincent

Joementum is the sole voice of centrist reasoning in your party.
He gets beat,and your party takes an even further turn left.
We pick up the Lieberman democrats then.
We’ll take them.
He’ll make a terrific veep candidate on our side too.
I love the guy.

Posted by: sicilianeagle at June 7, 2006 1:33 PM
Comment #155185

Woody

Do you really see Roberts and Alito as right wing extremists?

Posted by: Jack at June 7, 2006 1:44 PM
Comment #155192

I think that Samuel Alito is a right-wing extremist.

Posted by: Woody Mena at June 7, 2006 1:54 PM
Comment #155194

Look, anyone who thinks that the Democrats have a chance of taking the house and senate in the mid terms is not living in the same reality as the rest of the country.

The republican state legislatures that have changed up their voting districts have assured themselves re-election in the coming elections. Sure it will be close in some districts, but the outcome will be the same.

Face the facts, the democrats have no message, no leadership, no vision and can’t finance like the republicans. Unless something unbelievable happens, the republicans will either gain a few seats or just lose a few in the house. The senate will most likely stay in republican hands.

This election in California should wake you all up and make you realize that stale talk about the rich vs poor and universal healthcare don’t ring true in anyone’s ears.

With all that said, I must say that I am pulling for the democrats (I am an independent) and I truely hope I am wrong.

Posted by: Steven Baggett at June 7, 2006 2:06 PM
Comment #155200

SB,

Universal healthcare? Who’s talking about universal healthcare? The Democrats are talking about Iraq, security, corruption, and of course our peerless leader Bush. Other than that they are pretty much lying low

I think they would actually be better off if they DID talk about universal healthcare. The only pol who’s showing any leadership in this area is Mitt Romney.

Posted by: Woody Mena at June 7, 2006 2:15 PM
Comment #155204

So does this mean that its the democrats in congress that the american people are realy pissed at?22% approval rating Im laughing Oh am i laughing!

Posted by: lookingout at June 7, 2006 2:22 PM
Comment #155219

Woody,
I do not consider this a sign that the GOP is going to maintain their grip on Congress. If you’d ever been there, you would know with certainty, like I did, that there wasn’t a chance in hell that Busby was going to win that district. And it wouldn’t have mattered whether she’d done everything perfectly, or whether or not the GOP used their noise machine against her.
The most important thing the Dems could do is learn to use their heads about when and where they should spend their money. If they chose to be wise with it, they would start dumping a fortune into districts where the seats are actually up for grabs for Democrats.
In California’s 50th, this has never been the case.

PS to Max: Chin up, and just keep using that lethal Left hook of yours! ;^)

Posted by: Adrienne at June 7, 2006 3:03 PM
Comment #155229

I wouldn’t worry about this loss.Like Paul Hackett in my old home state of Ohio,this will prove that if you don’t lose by much in a solidly GOP district,the whole party is getting closer to being the majority!

Posted by: John Neal at June 7, 2006 3:20 PM
Comment #155233

SE,
Of course you love him. He is a wolf in sheeps clothing. Maybe you can get him to do one of your parties “Spitball” speeches. Or maybe he can give another speech about TV’s in the Iraqi homes. That is the only thing he is good for these days.

Jack,
“They have nobody as smart as Newt.”

This is the guy you use as your example? Is he still in office? The answer is no. He is a Fox News Analyst now. I ask again, this is your example of a smart guy on your side?

BTW I will take the “Pepsi Challenge” with Joe Biden ANY day of the week. Get used to the name. He will be our next President.

Posted by: Vincent Vega at June 7, 2006 3:30 PM
Comment #155238

Arienne-

That’s the failed strategy that got your party into the mess in the first place. You can’t write off red America and still be a national party.

Posted by: George in SC at June 7, 2006 3:42 PM
Comment #155246

“You can’t write off red America and still be a national party.”

Don’t you worry about what the Dems are doing, George. You just worry about the GOP who isn’t in any way conservative any longer, and who has now completely written off the entire Middle Class and the Poor — in favor of catering to the Very Wealthy (first and foremost), and the Evangelicals (second, though mostly with empty rhetoric).

Posted by: Adrienne at June 7, 2006 4:03 PM
Comment #155248

Vincent

Re Newt - Dems keep on thinking Republicans are fools and these same fools (like Newt, RR or even GWB) keep on beating them. Who is the bigger fool, the fool or the one whose rear the fool kicks?

Posted by: Jack at June 7, 2006 4:08 PM
Comment #155250

“You can have Joe Lieberman. Just keep him in the basement where you store Zell Miller.” -SE

I think Zell likes to live in the basement, what a loon.

Posted by: Chris2x at June 7, 2006 4:10 PM
Comment #155253

Remember this, incumbents have always had a big advantage over their challengers. To the shame of both parties from the California legislature to the Delay’s Texas redistricting incumbents have worked to make their districts even “safer” and it will be incredibly difficult to make real change. Things have had to get soooo bad in this country for us even to consider a change in power from one party to another. If the Dems do take back the house or senate it will because the Republicans gave it back to them with their incompetence.

Posted by: Chris2x at June 7, 2006 4:15 PM
Comment #155260

No Jack.

We get beat by:

Women in Florida with fake boobs (BTW, how well will she do in November?), Swiftboat guys, An Austrian who now understands how hard it is to run the 5th largest economy, and a bunch of bible thumpers that think guys getting married to guys is the comming of Satan.

All that being said, you are correct. The Dems have not shown us much.

But I think that is going to change, because people realize that Ken and Bill getting married in New Orleans means squat when their son is getting shot in Iraq, the money for his body armor is going to Jack Abramoff’s lawyers, and they can’t find a church because they were all taken by Katrina. All while the President is either on vacation or signing Teri Shivo bills.

Did I miss anything?

Posted by: Vincent Vega at June 7, 2006 4:27 PM
Comment #155266


Chris2x: I believe that republican incompetence and the vision that democrats offer should be the issues this fall. But, the real deciding factor will be whether or not the voters see thru the main misconception that the republicans will present. That misconception is that all the problems that the country faces were caused by Bill Clinton and the liberal democrats. And, if you think that the government is so corrupt and so incompetent under the republicans, just imagine how bad it would be if the democrats were running things.

Posted by: jlw at June 7, 2006 4:40 PM
Comment #155268

Vincent

That is what you think. We will see if the voters share your point of view. There is no doubt people are angry, but they usually make these kinds of voting decisions based on local factors. The House is closely balanced. It could change hand, but maybe not.

You have to be careful when trying to translate the general into the specific. I learned this in 1996, when a “generic” Republican could be Bill Clinton, but no real one could do it. The same thing happened to you guys in 2004 and may well happen in 2006.

A Dem win in November will make my life a little more fun. Now you guys can always claim everything in our fault. You will have to fine tune your message if you win and I will have fun making fun of it. In politics it is always easier to propose hypotheticals than defend real things.

Posted by: Jack at June 7, 2006 4:44 PM
Comment #155269

Adrienne-

I don’t need to worry about the GOP, I voted in the last Democratic primary…..

Growing up in politics I supported and admired people like Dick Riley. Where would he fit into today’s Democratic Party?

Posted by: George in SC at June 7, 2006 4:44 PM
Comment #155270
The Dems have failed to nationalize this election as the Republicans did in 1994.

.. so far.

Everyone knows about the Contract with America, but people don’t realize that it didn’t come out until September. There is supposedly a similar Democratic proposal in the works.

Posted by: Woody Mena at June 7, 2006 4:47 PM
Comment #155275

“Do you really see Roberts and Alito as right wing extremists?”

Alito just cast the tiebreaking vote in the case concerning government whistle blowers.
Can any republicans on this forum explain to me why discouraging whistle blowers is a GOOD thing???

Posted by: norby at June 7, 2006 5:07 PM
Comment #155277

Busby deserves respect. The problem is still that while the public is pissed off at the Republicans,they are slow to express their displeasure.
I am confident that the Repubs,greed,and moral turpitude will suffice to destroy any chance they have to maintain their sick grip on power. The blatant greed that shows in the Republican/BigBuisness alliance will eventually “bleed their marks dry” The marks of course are us.

Posted by: jblym at June 7, 2006 5:10 PM
Comment #155279

“and these same fools (like Newt, RR or even GWB) keep on beating them. Who is the bigger fool, the fool or the one whose rear the fool kicks?”

Winning doesn’t make you right. Just means you campaign better. Campaigning nowadays has very little to do with issues, EVERYTHING to do with image, emotions, who smears better.
I’d rather continue losing than adopt the bankrupt morals of the other side.

Posted by: norby at June 7, 2006 5:11 PM
Comment #155283

Norby

In a democracy, winning means you are right for the next two, four or six years depending on the office. If you don’t have enough confidence in the American people to think that over the course of more than 25 years they would be repeated fooled so effectively, you don’t really believe in democracy.

That whistle blower case was mostly about management and it was narrowly defined. Other posts have debated it. Not many people really cared.

Woody

I think the Dem plan is going to turn out alot like the last episode of “Lost” - confusing and disappointing with a lot of anticipation.

Posted by: Jack at June 7, 2006 5:21 PM
Comment #155291

I believe that the November election will be decided by perceived values (not actual). Every area of concern regarding this election can be summed up in some way by a value accessment made or implied by the individual candidate AND his or her party.

Whoever positions this correctly will “win” the game.

Posted by: Cliff at June 7, 2006 5:43 PM
Comment #155295

Jack,

Why is the plan confusing? Because we don’t “Stay the course?”

Just because some of the people in your party have trouble reading doesn’t make it the plans fault. Kerry outlined what could have been a successful way to deal with Iraq. I am sure you think Bush has done better, but 75% of the country disagrees with you. We were bombarded by terror threats, and 9-11 being used for every issue. I think the public has woken up. I know you have seen it happen. It didn’t take much. Just a splitscreen video of a hurricane in New Orleans and a President playing guitar with some hick.

So how are we better than we were 6 years ago?

Posted by: Vincent Vega at June 7, 2006 5:46 PM
Comment #155297

Seriously Jack.

How are we better than we were when it comes to:

Healthcare?

Social Security?

Education?

Smaller Government? (remember, this has been an ALL REPUBLICAN congress for years)

Iraq?

Or is gay marrige and Janet Jackson’s boob more important? Your party has wasted our time and more importantly our MONEY for years. Now the public is going to hold them accountable.

Posted by: Vincent Vega at June 7, 2006 5:50 PM
Comment #155300

“In a democracy, winning means you are right for the next two, four or six years depending on the office.”

Sorry, but it doesn’t. Just means you convinced more people to vote your side. You don’t know WHY they voted your way. And as an American, losing just means I have to try harder and fight for what I believe in with that much more zeal.

“If you don’t have enough confidence in the American people to think that over the course of more than 25 years they would be repeated fooled so effectively, you don’t really believe in democracy”

The average american is easily mislead as they have too much personal crap going on to really examine the individual issues with any depth.
As for your grand statement “you don’t really believe in democracy”: Utter Crap.
You have NO right to tell me what I believe in based on YOUR criteria.
The FACTS are that most people in 04 voted for bush. Todays poll numbers show that in that case, the majority was WRONG, and now realizes it. He wouldn’t win the same election today.

Posted by: norby at June 7, 2006 5:55 PM
Comment #155332
In a democracy, winning means you are right for the next two, four or six years depending on the office.

You are certainly open-minded, Jack. Apparently you support slavery, abolition, the Great Society, Ronald Reagan…

Posted by: Woody Mena at June 7, 2006 7:52 PM
Comment #155353

Geez….

Just caught up on my reading here and it seems like a funeral or something.

Poor Max is distraught and Adrienne is busy comforting him….Vincent seems mad…and everybody just has no zip today…..

C’mon…we love you…all us Repubs embrace and welcome back to reality all of lefties who had all those dreams of domination this fall….

…and the president is at 28%,the congressman was a crook,and the dem hopeful was a nitwit….

PLUS you guys are booting out Joementum from the pup tent…..

What you guys need is a plan….

Wait…let me get one for you……

:)

Posted by: sicilianeagle at June 7, 2006 8:55 PM
Comment #155370

Woody:

“But if priorities have to be set, I think the Senate is more important.”

I disagree. The House not only controls the purse strings, but as you say, can initiate impeachment proceedings. I beginning to believe that one of the most effective ways of challenging this administration is not giving it the money to execute its looney agenda.

“If Reid can maintain party discipline, even a one-vote majority will be able to keep Bush from putting right-wing extremists on the court. “

Please. This man has been one of the most ineffectual Senate minority leaders in recent history. He pulled that parlimentary stunt to force the Repubs to close down the Senate session, then went back to sleep. He had to be bludgeoned into a half-hearted attempt to cut the Alito confirmation off by voting against cloture, and that ended up being another catastrophe.

In short, he couldn’t get a group of well-trained sheepdogs across a road on a nice day.

As for the Ca.50th vote, I would think party Democrats have had enough of moral victories. Everybody wants to read the tea leaves on this—I’m with Jack on this. I beginning to believe that the GOP is going to snake this election as well. If the Dems win the House (I really don’t think they can win the Senate), I will be very pleasantly surprised.

Posted by: Tim Crow at June 7, 2006 9:55 PM
Comment #155393

Vincent

I have not seen a plan. What the Dems tell us is that they will just be better. I remember last time Dems controlled the place. It wasn’t. I am not happy with many things the Republicans have done, but when I consider the alternatives I have to vote for them.

I consider party very strongly but I still vote for the person not the party and I like my congressman and I like my Senator. Many people are like me.

If the Dems field a great candidate, I will consider voting for him/her. I have not seen many of those around, however.

On the national level, I have to say that the thought of Pelosi as speaker does make me a little sick. In the case of a close call, that would tip me toward the Republican candidate.

Norby

I don’t know if he would win an election today. Neither do you. Even after Katrina, a Zogby poll found that Bush still beat Kerry Bush is not popular. He was not that popular in 2004, but people liked the alternative less. The nature of democracy is alternatives. You almost never get exactly what you want.

You also know, of course, that Bush will never run again. Everybody will have a new choice come 2008. Will Republicans trick the voters again?

If you think Republicans have managed to fool voters for more than 25 years, I don’t see how you have much confidence in democracy. My standard is that the people are wrong a lot, but in the long run they are right. 25 years is a long run.

Woody

I give legitimacy to the person who wins the election. That is my duty and yours if we believe in democracy. I did it for Clinton. I do it for Bush. I will do it for Hilary in the terrible event she wins. That does not mean I agree with all the policies or that I like the person. It doesn’t mean that I will not work against him/her within the law. But until the next election comes along the person elected is the right person. It is a definitional thing.

Posted by: Jack at June 7, 2006 11:40 PM
Comment #155465
I give legitimacy to the person who wins the election. That is my duty and yours if we believe in democracy. I did it for Clinton. I do it for Bush. I will do it for Hilary in the terrible event she wins. That does not mean I agree with all the policies or that I like the person. It doesn’t mean that I will not work against him/her within the law.

I doubt anyone who posts here has done anything illegal to oppose the Republicans or Bush, so it sounds like you have nothing to complain about.

Posted by: Woody Mena at June 8, 2006 7:14 AM
Comment #155522

Woody

I am not complaining, just explaining. I do believe, however, that some on this side refuse to grant legitimacy to Bush. When they do that, they are not disrespecting Bush, but our whole democratic process. They have the right to work against Bush and critcize him. They have no right to question his legitmacy unless they question that of our democracy.

Posted by: Jack at June 8, 2006 10:03 AM
Comment #212232

My husband is disturbed constantly with a ring in ears, whether it is possible as that to correct? Speak it because of a high blood pressure? WBR LeoP

Posted by: Marina at March 16, 2007 4:10 AM
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