Democrats & Liberals Archives

Political Tools

Al Franken, in his book “The Truth (with jokes),” tells us that it is not true that Americans elected Bush because America is more conservative now. It’s not so. Americans voted for George W. Bush because of the successful machinations of Karl Rove who depended on 3 big political tools: Fear, Smears and Queers. He also thinks that these political tools have lost much of their usefulness and will not work in the future. The Democrats are ready to counteract them.

Republicans believe in attack. If they don't like anybody, attack. Somebody says something they disagree with, attack. He or she may become a political antagonist in the future, attack.

They attack because they believe in competition and they know for a fact that they are better than anyone else. They know that conservatism is the best philosophy. They are positive that they are right and their opponents are wrong. Theirs is a grand faith, underwritten by God, so how could they be wrong? Besides, they believe it's better to attack an opponent or even a would-be opponent - preemption - before your opponent attacks you. This is a dog-eat-dog world.

Karl Rove is top dog. He is an attacker par excellence. He represents today's conservative Republican philosophy better than anyone. He knows whom to attack, when to attack and how to attack. And he knows how to attack without showing his hand - the "hidden hand" attack. Rove is the master attacker.

His major tool was Fear. All during the campaign he had Bush talking about 9/11 and the terrible things that would happen if Kerry were elected - like more terrorist attacks. Have you noticed that lately there is no talk of terror alerts? However, there was plenty of talk before the election. Here's Franken:

"From the first terror alert on February 12, 2002 until the November 2, 2004, election, the Bush administration raised the nationwide threat level to orange, meaning a 'high risk of terrorist attack,' six times."

The only reason for it was to scare us to death and it did. Many people succumbed to fear and voted for Bush.

Smears was another tool. This he applied with his "hidden hand." All of a sudden the Lying SwiftBoaters appeared and they pummeled Kerry with lies. With their smears they destroyed Kerry's well deserved reputation as a hero and a great American. Yes, there were enough people in the country who believed these lies, enough to hurt Kerry's chances for winning.

Then, when the Republicans did not feel comfortable about winning, Rove brought out the next tool: Queers. Instead of talking about real issues, he had Bush announce the so-called marriage amendment. They offered a piece of red meat to the religious right. This sector of the Republican Party reacted in a way that brought ignominy upon Kerry - including denouncements from clergy.

The political tools of Fear, Smears and Queers were extremely effective. However, now that everybody can see the results of such endless attacks, they will not work as before. Democrats, who previously did not properly answer these attacks, are ready and keen to answer them now. More than that, Democrats are ready with their own political tools.

Our tools are very different. While Republicans are attackers, Democrats are builders. We don't want to tear the country apart; we want to build it with the aid of all its diverse sectors. We don't want to instil Fear that diminishes our country; we are eager to give Hope to the aspirations of the people. Instead of Smears we favor Truth. Instead of knocking Queers, we want to make all Americans feel good.

This November think about it. If you want conflict and aggression, vote for Republicans. However, if you are eager to to fill our country with harmony and peace, vote for Democrats.

Posted by Paul Siegel at May 18, 2006 5:38 PM
Comments
Comment #149280

Would that it were so Paul. Me, I’m just an ignorant European, but from this remove I see no sign of freshness or recovery from the Dems. Good ole Hill is being touted for 08, a woman who surely is unelectable in the US given the resentment she generates, rightly or wrongly. Kerry may well have been a war hero and all around good egg american, but he just didn’t have the presence, or gravitas to win.

Barack Obama showed himself a man to watch, speaking with fire and conviction and eloquence, but surely he’s some ways off a run for pennsylvania avenue. From my remove, which admittedly is thousands of miles away, the sense I’m getting is that whereas the Reps may be struggling, the Dems are not obviously benefitting from that. This suggest a serious malaise in the Dem party which needs to be addressed immediately. Look at all of those Americans who are looking to vote third party or anti incumbent. The Democratic party has a proud history or service and leadership. It appears to have lost its leadership muscle when it cannot inspire enough Americans to build a country that is bigger than just making yourself richer, but making the country richer in all of the things that make a country truly great.

Posted by: Paul in Euroland at May 18, 2006 6:14 PM
Comment #149282

Ironic that you chose one of Franken’s books to parrot and then conclude your post with “Republicans are attackers, Democrats are builders”. You’ve read his latest, so obviously I don’t have to explain.

Posted by: Craig at May 18, 2006 6:15 PM
Comment #149288

So, Americans are just stupidly led sheep, if they weren’t manipulated we’d all be liberals? LOL

I don’t think the country is more conservative, I just feel that Americans are just as conservative but are no longer falling for the manipulations of the Democratic party.

Posted by: Rhinehold at May 18, 2006 6:24 PM
Comment #149293

Paul in Euroland,

I’m pretty much anti-incumbent, yet, I’ve recently rejoined the Democrats. I want to fight with other progressive liberals like myself for the soul of my life-long party. Hillary and other politicians like her are exactly the types that I’d like to see go — because they’re the Republican Lites who’ve been listening to the DLC (Democratic Leadership Committee). These politicians, in my opinion, have been abandoning the base (average working class people) of the Democratic party in favor of appeasing Big Business, much the way the GOP has always done. They are who I feel have removed, as you said “the freshness” from the party. That freshness by my definition is: honesty, integrity, and real conviction toward protecting and serving the needs of the poor and middle class, and standing up for civil rights for all Americans.
I think it is these DLC types who have weakened, and thereby, driven people away from the party. I should know, because for awhile, in my anger and disgust, they drove me away! I’d like to see liberals oust these types and regain what previously made the Democrats so strong — fearlessly and proudly standing up for the average citizen.
I believe that the Dems can and will gain traction again — all they need to do that is to stop acting like a sugar-coated version of the same bitter and harmful pills the GOP has been selling for many years.
Just my opinion.

Craig,
Are you trying to say that the fact that Franken has written a book which describes in detail the low-down and dirty tactics that have recently been employed by the GOP should be considered equal to an attack on the GOP? If so, that doesn’t make sense.

Posted by: Adrienne at May 18, 2006 7:13 PM
Comment #149294

Bush may have won an election based upon the fear of Americans,but there were also a great number of folks with knowledge of his lies.I had then and have today,a fear of this administration ruining the correct interpretation of the Constitution,which is still the foundation of the way of life I hold dear.I plan on being on this earth many years more.I don’t want to be scared for my future children.

Posted by: Theresa at May 18, 2006 7:14 PM
Comment #149296

Thanks for the laugh. You Dems and your silly fantasies are very entertaining. Democrats are builders? HA! Your leaders know nothing but divisive tactics. Remember James Carville?
“If you want to fill our country with harmony and peace…” Now that’s a good one. I thought I’d split my sides laughing so hard. Are you going to ride to the polls to vote on your unicorn?

Posted by: traveller at May 18, 2006 7:17 PM
Comment #149297

Paul,

Americans voted for George W. Bush because of the successful machinations of Karl Rove who depended on 3 big political tools: Fear, Smears and Queers.

Or was it just that they couldn’t stomach John Kerry as President?

Was it that they didn’t want Bush as president…but they SURE AS HELL didn’t wan’t Kerry?

Or is it that the absolute authority on everything politics (Al Franken) is absolutely right…and all the other experts are just overeducated trailer park trash?

Hint…

When anyone puts forth their OPINION in ABSOLUTES, it’s time to introduce their book to the garbage can.

Posted by: Jim T at May 18, 2006 7:17 PM
Comment #149300

In 2000 - People were too stupid to punch Florida ballot

In 2004 - People were too stupid to understand Bush was a Nazi

Now in 2005 you’re telling me that the people’s stupidity has worn off? You may want to wait until the election.

Besides, we don’t rely on Rove anymore now that we have Diebold counting the votes.

Posted by: esimonson at May 18, 2006 7:35 PM
Comment #149302

There is no doubt that Karl Rove is a genious, evil or not. The fact of the matter is that Republicans have won by determining the rules of the game. They have done this legally by setting the tone and narrowing in on emotional issues that could turn a huge portion of the elctorate into single issue voters, even if that single issue has very little effect on their daily lives.

In both cases, it is the Dems fault for letting them do it.

The Reps deserve credit for tricking 49% of the country into believing they have their best interest at heart.

Posted by: David S at May 18, 2006 7:42 PM
Comment #149303

fear, smear, and queers may be right, but appealing to people’s greed(tax cuts, corporate welfare, etc.) played a big role as well. How do you fight that?

Posted by: mark at May 18, 2006 7:45 PM
Comment #149304

Adrienne,

Franken is infamous for attacking and personally bashing people in his books, in fact, some conservatives believe that the venom he spit (among others) at Bush last election made things worse for Kerry in the end. See the irony?

Posted by: Craig at May 18, 2006 8:01 PM
Comment #149309

for paul there is only one side of the coin. he absolutely can not say anything good about any conservatives. nada, zip, zilch. Most free thinkers can understand that both parties play a role in progressing this country. corporations arent evil. they sustain our economy. provide jobs, and innovations, which in the end benefit everyone.

dems are (were) traditionally for the little guy. without unions, trustbusting, and employment fairness laws, this country would certainly have only two economic classes. now that we have a plethora of laws on the books, unions have become obsolete, trustbusting is a footnote in our history books, and with affirmative action and hiring quotas, the pendulum has indeed swung in the opposite direction for many americans.

So what role do the dems have as “builders”? their base (as the heros for the little guy) is pretty much shot unless there are the “have nots” in this country. ask yourself this: if the economic conditions for the lower class were improved, who would the dems cowtow to? There is not one conservative out there that doesnt believe in the “american dream”. I personally love the stories of the hard working, industrious people who made something for themselves, and became succesful. Can the ultra libs (paul) say the same??? This is not an attack on paul, but merely an observations that he lambasts conservatives for their attacking, but if you read his post carefully and with an objective eye, you will see that his argument is carefully constructed to attack the attackers. Bravo paul. Im sure you fooled some of the fodder once again…

Posted by: b0mbay at May 18, 2006 8:25 PM
Comment #149311

“They attack because they believe in competition and they know for a fact that they are better than anyone else. They know that conservatism is the best philosophy. They are positive that they are right and their opponents are wrong.”

You got that right! You idiots are just too whimpy to win. You are the weaklings in gym who got picked last. LOL.

Posted by: Ed at May 18, 2006 8:33 PM
Comment #149316

FEAR: yes we were afraid of a world with Kerry guiding america.

SMEARS: Yes we were tired of the liberal media smears of Bush ie His service record.

Queers: Yes we felt under Kerry this discusting pratice would be glorified even more than it is now.

Posted by: jc at May 18, 2006 9:17 PM
Comment #149317

duh, you got that right!you idiots are just too whimpy to win.you are the weaklings in the gym who got picked last.LOL. come here bart you little sob, i am going to break your neck! Daalt! Daalt! Daalt!

Posted by: steve at May 18, 2006 9:26 PM
Comment #149318

Wow, the red team sure has their blinders on today. Good gravy, they are like pigs in slop. Exactly how many terror alerts have their been since 2004, how bout none.

And if you guys seriously don’t believe in the God, gays and guns (or fear, smears and queers) tactics that the Reps use to divide the country, then I believe that you are all sheep and deserve whatever slop the GOP feeds you.

Good luck with that, I’ll be voting Dem in the fall.

Posted by: reed at May 18, 2006 9:41 PM
Comment #149320

I see that the wrong wing attack machine is out in full force here. Thanks to Craig, traveller, eric simonson, and jc for proving that the wrong wing has only one tactic - attack. You can’t defend your positions with facts or logic, so you attack the messenger.

Remember James Carville?
I do. And he is a gentleman compared with Rush Limbaugh, Karl Rove, Dick Cheney, Dick Armey, Tom Delay, Sean Hannity, Ann Coulter, Michelle Malkin, Bill O’Reilly, Jerry Fallwell, Spiro Agnew, Robert Novak, Pat Robertson, and dozens of other hatemongers, who actively encourage Americans to hate their fellow countrymen - more than they hate OBL and more than they hate terrorists.

Wrong wingers are the REAL Hate Americans First crowd.

Posted by: EllliottBay at May 18, 2006 9:46 PM
Comment #149321
I’ll be voting Dem in the fall.

And follow the Class, Sex and Race hatred and bigotry that the Dems use to stir their voters into action. Yeah, much more moral.

Posted by: Rhinehold at May 18, 2006 9:49 PM
Comment #149323

Of course I attack, only wimps hide and wait for the ax to fall. Pre-emptive strikes are the only way to win. As to hate (not me) hate is for losers I just laugh at you guys. And sometimes I feel a little sorry for you.

Posted by: jc at May 18, 2006 9:54 PM
Comment #149327

jc,

Thanks for proving Paul’s point. Attack attack attack. When the wrong wing does it, it’s OK. When anyone else does it it’s wrong. How hypocritical can you get? Your parents must be SO proud…

Posted by: ElliottBay at May 18, 2006 10:02 PM
Comment #149328

Rhinehold

And follow the Class, Sex and Race hatred and bigotry that the Dems use to stir their voters into action. Yeah, much more moral.
The scandal-plagued Wrong wing certainly has the moral high ground, doesn’t it? Pot, meet kettle. Kettle, meet pot.

Posted by: ElliottBay at May 18, 2006 10:04 PM
Comment #149330

wow Rhinehold, can you say that with a straight face. Give a god damn break. The GOP in the last ten years has been without a doubt have become the most hateful, spiteful, bigotus bunch of people. Lets see, the GOP hates gays, atheists, non-christians, poor people, muslims, and probably many more groups of people and of course liberals (that one’s ok with me though). Did I miss any groups?

Its called bigotry, get used to the title, it fits.

Posted by: reed at May 18, 2006 10:08 PM
Comment #149332

I’m not terribly happy with the Republicans of late, but it would be an unmitigated disaster if Democrats actually took control of Congress and the White House. I’m happy to see that you and your socialist friends are still living in denial (it’s not the river in Egypt, that one is spelled differently), but please, by all means, continue.

No person, business, party or country will EVER succeed after a defeat until they evaluate where THEY were responsible, the mistakes THEY made, and how to change that behavior. I know this is particularly difficult for the Socialists because you are the party of making SOMEONE ELSE responsible. So keep making excuses. I especially love the rants that includes references to Bush as a dumb hick, and an evil genius, all in the same paragraph.

Posted by: David C. at May 18, 2006 10:19 PM
Comment #149334

Craig:
“Franken is infamous for attacking and personally bashing people in his books,”

Well, if this isn’t just too pot/kettle/black for words! Surely you must know that any attack upon hatemongers like Rush and his entire Oxicontingent of Dittoheads, Bill “Blowhard” O’Reilly, and Man “Venom” Coulter is just tat for a bunch of tits? Same goes for any attack upon the likes of Karl “Junkyard Dog” Rove(r). Every single one of these people have all knowingly stoked their fires of hatred high — therefore, they shouldn’t be at all surprised when a bucket of cold and righteous Liberal Indignation is occasionally tossed their way.

“in fact, some conservatives believe that the venom he spit (among others) at Bush last election made things worse for Kerry in the end.”

Yeah, but then, some conservatives still believe that Saddam was responsible for 9/11. Or believe that the Bush Administration and the Republican majority in Congress are full of nothing but honest and upstanding Christian men. Or think that we are winning the war in Iraq by “staying the course”. Or that the economy is doing great. Or actually believe that elections in America can be fair and accountable with no paper trails and easily hackable voting machines. Just all kinds of nutty and unbelieveable stuff.
I don’t know if you’ve noticed this Craig, but a great many of us here in the Blue column don’t put very much stock in what a lot of conservatives believe these days.

“See the irony?”

I certainly do. How about yourself?

Posted by: Adrienne at May 18, 2006 10:28 PM
Comment #149337

I dont hate queers I loath them.

I dont hate atheists I feel sorry for them.

I am realitivly poor but I work for a living and I refuse aid of any kind because I was raised to blame only myself for my problems

I dont hate muslims.I just dont trust them. An anology would be (If you get to close to a rattlesnake your going to get bit)

Ah yes liberals. You cant hate ignorance you just laugh at it.

In answer to elliottbay My parents instilled in me the ability to accept idiots and in this case they would be extreamly proud.

Posted by: jc at May 18, 2006 10:30 PM
Comment #149339

David C.

I believe the Dems believe in public works, not socialism. I believe the Republicans are looking for the father figure to tell them how to think and what to do. Backing the NSA wire tapping is a good example.

I certainly do not blame Bush for grabbing as much power as the people and the government will alow him to grab. It human nature and he does want to further the right wing agenda. Power ebbs and flows.

It seems funny to me that the red team will fight tooth and nail about gun rights and the right to have rhino-hide armour-piercing bullets in automatic high powered weapons because they believe that would start the domino effect to a total gun ban but are all too happy to give away privacy for some absolute bullshit political agenda based on security and fear of the boogeyman.

Again, I will be all to happy to cast my vote the dems way in the fall.

Posted by: reed at May 18, 2006 10:34 PM
Comment #149342

jc,

thank you very much for proving my point on bigotry. I couldn’t have said it better myself.

excellent work. I will of course pray for your soul.

Posted by: reed at May 18, 2006 10:36 PM
Comment #149344

If what I have been saying is bigotry then I guess im proud to be a bigot. But in actuality the fact that you identify reality and common sense with bigotry is proof of a stand still, look down at your toes, and put your hands at your side, and the bully will go away mentality. Thanks for your prayers I surely need them but not because of bigotry.

Posted by: jc at May 18, 2006 10:54 PM
Comment #149345

jc,

yes, loathing queers is bigotry. Distrusting muslims because of their religion is bigotry. You don’t have to feel sorry for atheist because they don’t deserve your pity.

And yes, you are in my prayers and yes it is because of your bigotry.

Posted by: reed at May 18, 2006 11:14 PM
Comment #149348

The Republicans #1 tool is a real “tool”!

My absolute favorite quote from tool #1 is, “I’m a uniter, not a divider”.

Yep, he’s not the sharpest tool in the shed, just the sharpest on his side of the shed.

Be that as it may, damn good work Paul Siegel! You always know how to bring the “bugs” out of the woodwork. Were you an exterminator in a previous life?

KansasDem

Posted by: KansasDem at May 18, 2006 11:22 PM
Comment #149350

David C,

Calling Democrats “socialists” proves the premise of this thread. It falls under the “smears” category, in case you haven’t figured it out. And it’s about as accurate as calling Republicans “nazis”.

Posted by: ElliottBay at May 18, 2006 11:26 PM
Comment #149351

Reed,
Public works are highways and parks. Fine by me. Socialism is welfare and almost everything else the Federal Gov’t does. Not fine by me. I know the differance between public works and socialism and I suspect you do too. I don’t want the NSA listening to my calls anymore than you do. I don’t like tele-marketers either. Wonder how they got my number? But if they want to search phone records for patterns of calls to overseas numbers, or known terrorist numbers, I’m ok with that because I don’t call those guys.

BTW, a few years ago the FBI busted a small computer company right outside Dallas, near where I live, for funneling money to Hamas. They did all this electronically of course, so how did they get caught? Can you say “Echelon”? Maybe, the FBI won’t say. It was either that or bank records. This happened while Clinton was President. So I ask, “Echelon” does the same thing with electronic info that this alleged NSA program does with phone call info, is “Echelon” illegal?

Posted by: David C. at May 18, 2006 11:30 PM
Comment #149362

David C,

“Echelon” does the same thing with electronic info that this alleged NSA program does with phone call info
Wrong. Eschelon required FISA approval. This program doesn’t.

Posted by: ElliottBay at May 18, 2006 11:49 PM
Comment #149368

Just to lighten this thread up a little, with apologies to the Chad Mitchell Trio :)

We’re the bright young men Who want to go back to nineteen-ten We’re Barry’s Bush’s boys. We’re the kids with a cause Yes a government like grandmama’s We’re Barry’s Bush’s boys. We’re the new kind of youth at your Alma Mater Back to silver standards and solid Goldwater Back to when the poor were poor and rich were rich And you felt so damn secure just knowing which were which.

We’re the kids who agree
To be social without security
We’re Barry’s Bush’s boys
‘Cause his hat’s in the ring
Where Westbrook Pegler once was king
Now he’s too left wing
So if you don’t recognize any old Red China
Or Canada, or Britain, or South Carolina
You too can join the crew
Tippecanoe and Nixon too
Back to Barry Bush
Back to cash and carry
Back to Barry’s Bush’s boys.

(spoken)
Why did the chicken cross the road?
To get from the left to the right.

Roses are red, violets are blue
Walter Lippmann’s a pinko, too.

A-na-ka-nee, ka-nah, ka-nay
Let’s investigate the PTA.

JEB, JEB, make your bid
I love John Birch, but oh you kid.

Mother, mother, wear a grin
And don’t complain, or we’ll turn you in.

Hold the presses, stop the mail
The Pentagon’s having a one-cent sale.

What’s the latest news statistic?
Hootenannies are socialistic.

Shut the door and lock and latch it
Here comes Lizzie with a brand new hatchet

(sung)

We’re the kids full of nerve
As long as it’s conservative
We’re Barry’s Bush’s boys
And we can’t comprehend
Why our parents aren’t friendlier
To Barry’s Bush’s boys
Why Dad once crusaded for Sacco/Vanzetti
Now all we’re doing is the same for John Paul Getty
Our parents emulated Roosevelt and Farley
But we just want to grow up to be like Ev and Charley

No college days with Socrates and Plato
When you’re Barry’s Bush’s boys
You just organize parades for the abolishment of NATO
And the rest
The entire West
So let’s go back to the days when men were men
And start the First World War all over again
That’s right you tell ‘em son
Isolationism can be fun
Back to Barry Bush
Back to cash and carry
Back to Barry Bush


And remember, “An American first, and a politician second.”
Spoken like a true American politician

Back with Barry Bush
Not with Lyndon, Ike or Harry
Back with Barry’s Bush’s boys.

Posted by: womanmarine at May 19, 2006 12:05 AM
Comment #149369

David C.

Can you honestly say that 9-11 happened due to a lack of intel?

We all know that a threat was ignored by Bush & Company. Condi tried and failed horribly to explain to the 9-11 commission why that was ignored.

Oh yeah, it wasn’t specific enough! It would be equivalent to a neighbor telling me that he overheard someone talking about burglarizing my garage because I seldom lock up, and me explaining after the burglary that no specific date was supplied.

The most serious lack of intelligence is that of our all powerful executive branch which truly lacks the “intelligence” to recognize a real threat.

It’s time for a new Repuglican slogan:
Bush Administration = BA
BA = Bumbling Asses

I like that. The bumbling ass administration. It must suck to be among that final 30% that still support this buffoon.

KansasDem

Posted by: KansasDem at May 19, 2006 12:17 AM
Comment #149377

Chad Mitchell Trio? Sadly, I know who they were and even know John Denver was a member. Now that’s more arcane than a Dennis Miller joke.

Speaking of Dennis Miller…

I wonder why Republican comedy isn’t funny enough to make it? There’s a fine line between humor and bitter derision, I guess. Republican humor kind of reminds me of the KKK meeting jokes or German humor.
Maybe it’s because Americans realize that the joke is on us. I wonder why they are all so angry? There is something very sadomasochistic about it.

Posted by: gergle at May 19, 2006 1:42 AM
Comment #149427

Adrienne, I thought Democrats were builders, not attackers? I never said that Republicans like Limbaugh and co weren’t ‘attackers’, perhaps you need some lessons in reading comprehension…or maybe you just like to argue with yourself? If a Republican blogger used one of the characters’ you mentioned to support a point and then framed himself as a peacemaker, I think you’d find the irony then - hmmm, or maybe you wouldn’t.

Yes I think you’ve made it clear that you don’t put much stock in ANY argument or viewpoint that you disagree with.

Posted by: Criag at May 19, 2006 10:10 AM
Comment #149434
Its called bigotry, get used to the title, it fits.

Me? No, seeing as I’m not a republican I doubt that I will be defending them anytime soon.

However, your attempt to deflect the criticism against you to the ‘other party’ as being worse is pretty sad. What I said about the dems is accurate, they’ve gained and held wealth by using the hatred bogeyman instead of politicking on ideals and values. “Vote for us because we don’t hate XXXX group as much as they do, and we’ll help make your lot in life better” while doing nothing for the 40 some odd years they were in control of congress to actually further that along because actually helping people means that they no longer need to in office fighting against the bogeymen and your power slips.

Posted by: Rhinehold at May 19, 2006 11:20 AM
Comment #149445

Rhinehold,

You are incorrect sir. You are describing the Republican “Vote for us because, yes we are corrupt, but so are the dems” platform.

You claim to not be replublican, I could care less. I won’t vote for the reps in the fall because of their hate-filled, vitriolic bigotted platform.

Aren’t you the same guy who keeps a loaded hand-cannon in every room of your house in case a terrorist breaks in. Believe me, I won’t vote libertarian anytime soon either.

Again, I say your attempts at calling the dems bigots is pretty damn weak at best.

Posted by: reed at May 19, 2006 12:09 PM
Comment #149448

Rhinehold,

Here is a dictionary definition for bigot just so we are on the same page here.

bigot: One who is strongly partial to one’s own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.

The might have something on the dems concerning politics, but the rest is purely republican.


Posted by: reed at May 19, 2006 12:33 PM
Comment #149456

God I hope that the fears, smears and queers tactic fails in this next election. I am starting to think that my fellow americans are a bunch of mean idiots that will run tword anything if it “hates them queers and commies”, er read terrorist lover now.

Posted by: cdp at May 19, 2006 1:01 PM
Comment #149472

bigot: One who is strongly partial to one’s own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.

Aren’t we all strongly partial to our own group, religion, race and politics…and just a tad intolerant of those who differ.

In this long thread everyone is beating the hell out of everyone else because they disagree on one or more of the points in that definition.

In the words of the man who really got the hell beat out of him…”Can’t we all just get along?”

Probably not.

All politicians are dividers. None of them from either party give a happy rats ass about anyone but their own group.

Is no confidence a vote.

Posted by: bigkenzombie at May 19, 2006 1:57 PM
Comment #149488

bigkenzombie,

Aren’t we all strongly partial to our own group, religion, race and politics…and just a tad intolerant of those who differ.

No, some people are tolerant of other people’s beliefs. Its called tolerance. I myself am not gay but I certainly don’t have a problem with people being gay if it makes there life more rewarding or in the least, happy. I don’t look at someone of middle eastern dissent and automatically believe they are muslim and even if they are, I wouldn’t hold it against them.

Their are definitely bigots in the world and the irony is, that I don’t have tolerance for those people. I guess that also makes me a bigot.

Posted by: reed at May 19, 2006 2:23 PM
Comment #149497

retards every one

Posted by: mystified at May 19, 2006 3:13 PM
Comment #149534

Craig:
“Adrienne, I thought Democrats were builders, not attackers?”

Absolutely — most liberals don’t approve of hatred and bigotry, and we advocate for positive and progressive change. It seems to me that the problem with many people on the right is that they’ve been believing the lies and absorbing the mean spirited attitudes that are being fed to them by a bunch of extremist hatemongers, and then turn around and call people on the left who expose those lies, and condemn such hatred and disrespect (someone such as Al Franken, for instance), “attackers”.
To me, this makes no sense.

“I never said that Republicans like Limbaugh and co weren’t ‘attackers’, perhaps you need some lessons in reading comprehension…”

I have never had a problem with reading comprehension, Craig. In fact, I was reading at the college level when I was still in grammar school. My proficiency in English even gave me the ability to earn money towards my tuition in college by allowing me to tutor English to fellow students. No, the problem is not in understanding what you’ve said. It is in following your logic.
You seem to think that Al Franken can be equated with Rush, and O’Reilly, and Coulter, and Rove, and I consider that ridiculous.
Franken never attacks conservatives at large the way those people attack liberals at large. The attacks Franken launches are focused solely on those who deserve them: on Far-right conservative extremists who do nothing but spread hatred for liberals, who repeatedly lie, and who disrespectfully shout down anyone who disagrees with them.

If you ever get the chance, you might listen to Frankens show on Air America Radio. He often has a old friend of his on the show — a guy who calls himself a “Dittohead” supporter of Rush. In those segments these two argue back and forth, and Franken points out, and factually refutes all of the lies that Rush has told that week, while the other guy does his best to try support those comments.
Ask yourself this: Could Rush or O’Reilly or Coulter ever do something like that? Do they even have any friends who don’t fully and totally agree with them? In my opinion, they couldn’t, and don’t. It seems clear that they don’t have the patience for that, and that they have not one ounce of respect for anyone who would ever oppose their views. Instead, all they can do to people on the left is hang up on them, or shout them down, or spew as many nasty epithets as is possible in the allotted time they have.
So, to sum up, my point is that Al Franken simply cannot, and should not, be put in the same catagory as other mean and angry partisan attackers. If you are still insisting otherwise, I would have to say that this is only because you haven’t read or listened very much to what Franken actually has to say.

“or maybe you just like to argue with yourself?”

Well, I wouldn’t say I like the feeling, but sometimes it does seem that way in some discussions with others here.

“If a Republican blogger used one of the characters’ you mentioned to support a point and then framed himself as a peacemaker, I think you’d find the irony then - hmmm, or maybe you wouldn’t.”

I find irony in you trying to equate what Franken does with what those people do. As for making points, I use my own opinons, logic and reasoning — and I expect the same from others. Where needed, I’ll go in search of information, facts and news stories to make sure my opinions and assumptions are correct, and then I’ll share those with others. Never, ever would I just repeat what some pundit had to say.

Re: Peacemaker comment
Being a Liberal, it’s true that I will always choose to go with peaceful solutions and diplomacy first, yet, I can’t consider myself a total pacifist. I have no problem being as aggressive and combative as others are when I know I am right, and where I feel it is necessary.

“Yes I think you’ve made it clear that you don’t put much stock in ANY argument or viewpoint that you disagree with.”

That isn’t true at all. While I consider myself an intelligent person with the power of my own informed convictions, I am not closed minded. I can listen to the opinions of others, and I’m very friendly with many conservative people even though I don’t agree with their views at all. That being said, I will admit that I simply cannot put much stock in anyone who is ignorant (whether willfully or unintentionally), dishonest, controlling, meanspirited and cruel, and people who lack all sense of humor.

Posted by: Adrienne at May 19, 2006 4:29 PM
Comment #149541

“Of course I attack, only wimps hide and wait for the ax to fall. Pre-emptive strikes are the only way to win. As to hate (not me) hate is for losers I just laugh at you guys. And sometimes I feel a little sorry for you.” - JC

kind of like pre-emptively striking iraq? we are winning there too right? what did the big elephant have to eat last night? its apparent your nose is far up the GOP’s ass.

Posted by: dan at May 19, 2006 4:49 PM
Comment #149604

jc,

Pre-emptive strikes are the only way to win.
Nice to see you condoning the 9-11 attacks, dude. If pre-emptive attacks are wrong for one party, pre-emptive attacks are wrong for EVERYONE

Posted by: ElliottBay at May 19, 2006 9:21 PM
Comment #149652

>>Nice to see you condoning the 9-11 attacks, dude. If pre-emptive attacks are wrong for one party, pre-emptive attacks are wrong for EVERYONE


Posted by: ElliottBay at May 19, 2006 09:21 PM

Well said…

Posted by: Marysdude at May 20, 2006 12:06 AM
Comment #149679

“Pre-emptive strikes are the only way to win.”

Well, it didn’t work for the Japanese.

Wow, here I was having a nice, sedate discussion about signing statements with several of my conservative brethren, and all the fireworks are over here. Gosh, so much has been hurled, some of it has even stuck to the walls!

Adrienne:

College work in grammer school, eh? I bet you made a great tutor. It’s amazing how much you’ve taught me in the short time I’ve been participating here at Watchblog.:-)

Keep it clean, folks.

Posted by: Tim Crow at May 20, 2006 1:14 AM
Comment #149701

You have to quit kidding yourselves. While we are the most powerful country in the world we are also the most arrogant, wasteful people in the history of the world. We throw resources out the window because if we get low we just bully the world into giving us more. You all complain about Bush attacking Iraq, but I bet you’re in your car alone when you get to work in the morning, or school by the sounds of most of your comments. High schools are doubling the size of their parking lots because kids are too good to ride the bus anymore. Cities everywhere are doubling their roadways because people are too good to carpool or take public transportation. Do we slow our speeds down to save fuel, no, we drive ten miles over the speed limit and race gas guzzling cars around silly circle tracks every weekend while our asses grow fat from half pound burgers and suitcases of beer. We vote in a president who, after a dui and three failed companies comments that the highlight of his presidency was catching an impossible seven and a half pound perch. There’s a light at the end of the tunnel, folks, but it’s just a freight train coming our way.

Posted by: Scott Burgoyne at May 20, 2006 5:30 AM
Comment #149735

Thanks, Tim! That was very kind of you to say, and I really appreciate it.

Posted by: Adrienne at May 20, 2006 11:58 AM
Comment #149879

Scott,

“There’s a light at the end of the tunnel, folks, but it’s just a freight train coming our way.”

Due to budget cuts, and the needed funding for Iraq, that light will be extinguished on Wednesday.

Posted by: Rocky at May 21, 2006 10:26 AM
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