Democrats & Liberals Archives

Lying Comes Naturally to Republicans

Whenever Republican politicians find themselves in trouble, their automatic knee-jerk reaction is to blame Democrats. If there is nothing to blame Democrats for, they merely make something up - they lie. This is exactly what the Republican National Committee (RNC) chairman, following the lead of his boss George W. Bush, has done and is doing. He is placing the blame of the mean and punitive House immigration bill on the Democrats, when he knows that it is an outrageous lie.

Everybody knows that the House is under control of Republicans. Republican chairman Sensenbrenner, pushed through his committee the nasty immigration bill that declared illegal immigrants to be felons. Democrats were against this. After the bill was approved Republicans and others complained that the law would disrupt the legal system by causing millions of jury trials. So Sensenbrenner offered an amendment to make being an illegal a misdemeanor. Since Democrats were against any sort of criminalization of illegals they voted against it.

Ken Mehlman, the chairman of the RNC, has the gall to use this latter vote of the Democrats to claim that the nasty House bill is the fault of the Democrats. It's a lie. It's ridiculous. Many a bill has been approved by the House without benefit of many Democrats. They have not listened to Democrats before and they did not listen this time. House Republicans are angry and mean and they produced an angry and mean bill.

Mehlman is worried that this angry and mean bill will hurt Republican prospects this fall among Hispanics. He is right to be worried. But he is wrong to blame the Democrats for the fix Republicans placed themselves in. To get out of the fix, he is doing what comes naturally to Republicans. He is lying.

As a matter of fact, Mehlman is placing this lie in ads written in Spanish and addressed to Hispanics. They, like the rest of us, have been fooled with these Republican lies before. But they will not be fooled again. By now, everybody knows that Republicans lie. Lying is part of what they call their superior "moral values."

Posted by Paul Siegel at April 14, 2006 5:59 PM
Comments
Comment #140726

Paul,

Excellent spin! The Democrats voted against striking the felony provision from the bill, not because they actually want illegals to be charged with a felony, but because they knew such a measure would ensure the bill’s failure in the Senate. They did it to “poison” the bill so that illegals can keep coming across the border, getting fake SS cards, and voting Democrat. Are you saying that the Dems don’t even want the misdemeanor charge that is already on the books? Let’s just open the border to anyone who wants in; sweat shop workers, welfare bums, criminals, terrorists, anyone who normally votes for the Democrats, because we know you guys can’t get enough votes among the actual CITIZENS of this country.

Posted by: Duano at April 14, 2006 6:54 PM
Comment #140727

God, can’t we have one place to debate without idiot trolls like Duano?
Go back to Yahoo boards, dude. This place is for fair debate and rational thought.

Posted by: NOrby at April 14, 2006 6:57 PM
Comment #140731

Norby-
Careful about how you phrase that.

Duano-
I think we will get more than enough votes among the actual citizens. In the meantime, it bears asking: If you’re so eager to see these people go, why are you interested in making illegal immigration a felony?

A Felony, by definition, is a crime that demands more than one year in prison. Add to that the likelihood that the caseload will be immense, and you’ve got these people mooching off of us for years.

The better approach is to make gaining citizenship easier for the poor, and enforce border policy more stringently. We make sure to punish those who knowingly employ illegal aliens harshly as well. Carrot and Stick.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at April 14, 2006 7:27 PM
Comment #140734

Duano,

The point is that if Republicans believe it should be a felony they should explain themselves and take pride in their position, not say “Democrats voted for it too.” It’s not true. Grow some balls, and take responsibility for your utter failures.

A constant refrain by the Republicans throughout these miserable Bush years has been to blame Clinton and or say that some Democrats hold the same position in cases of failure. All they’re really good for is bitching and blaming. I wouldn’t put up with this kind of behavior from a child.

Posted by: Max at April 14, 2006 7:31 PM
Comment #140739

I don’t have much of an understanding of congressional floor rules but it seems it would have been a smarter and more honorable move for the democrats simply to have not voted at all on this amendment. If it is truly their opinion that Mehlman is right to be “worried that this angry and mean bill will hurt Republican prospects this fall among Hispanics”, they could have introduced an amendment of their own removing the criminalization altogether, spoken out publicly about the bill as a whole, remained true to their principles, and let the republicans take what’s coming to them in the election. No doubt someone will say this is impossible due to technicalities, huh?

Posted by: Amani at April 14, 2006 7:58 PM
Comment #140741

If you read the press reports in left and right media, you see that the Dems employed a strategy to prevent the passage of the bill. That is the truth. Democrats are pretty good at lies too.

But let’s take your post. Democrats don’t even think it is a misdemeanor to be an illegal. You know that if you trespass in someones back yard or if your son writes his girlfriend’s name on a brick wall, those are misdemeanors.

That Dems consider petty vandalism and cutting across a neighbors lawn more terrible crimes than illegally staying in our country and lying to authorities tells you a lot about Dems and about their committment to telling the truth.

Posted by: Jack at April 14, 2006 8:08 PM
Comment #140752

It does not matter what laws are passed. The new ones will be no more subject to enforcement than the old ones. The entire argument is moot. There were a grand total of three citations last year for employers who had illegals on their payroll. Illegals are caught, go to court, are told to come back for another court date, and disappear into the big illegal void.

Until and unless the federal government shows it is going to take responsibility for repairing the leaks in the borders, there is no reason to believe they will live up to any other promise, whether their party affiliation is Democrat or Republican.

The great amnesty movement of 1986 came with promises of controlling illegal infiltration at its source and crackdowns on employers hiring illegals. The solve-all-employment I-9s were invented, which have only proven to be another annoying piee of paper employers may or may not complete. Even though there is a federal database for checking the validity of IDs, no employer is required to confirm ID. Short of a Social Security Card or Driver’s License being handwritten on flourescent pink paper, an employer can claim he/she did not know it was fraudulent documentation. There is no reason to believe 2006 will bring any different action than that NOT DONE ACTION from 1986 to date.

The government is great at passing laws, but really lousy at enforcing them or even planning for future enforcement. The laws being proposed are ludicrous. How does one prove they have been in the country five or more years? The fraudulent paperwork industry will thrive. Pay back taxes? And how do they propose figuring out what back taxes somebody owes? Totally asinine suggestion, Mr. Kennedy and Mr. McCain. Everyone with less than five years, but more than two will go back to the border, register, and be allowed back across. Well, that should bring all the illegals out of the woodwork and running for the border to do that very thing. It is not going to happen. Everyone else has to go home? That is even less likely than all of the above.

It is difficult to believe our representatives graduated grade school. Their mental faculties are seriously lacking in this subject area. Or could it be another case of they just don’t care enough to think the situation through to a logical conclusion? Politics before common sense, as usual.

Posted by: Kathy at April 14, 2006 9:19 PM
Comment #140755

It does not matter what laws are passed. The new ones will be no more subject to enforcement than the old ones. The entire argument is moot. There were a grand total of three citations last year for employers who had illegals on their payroll. Illegals are caught, go to court, are told to come back for another court date, and disappear into the big illegal void.

Until and unless the federal government shows it is going to take responsibility for repairing the leaks in the borders, there is no reason to believe they will live up to any other promise, whether their party affiliation is Democrat or Republican.

The great amnesty movement of 1986 came with promises of controlling illegal infiltration at its source and crackdowns on employers hiring illegals. The solve-all-employment I-9s were invented, which have only proven to be another annoying piece of paper employers may or may not complete. Even though there is a federal database for checking the validity of IDs, no employer is required to confirm ID. Short of a Social Security Card or Driver’s License being handwritten on flourescent pink paper, an employer can claim he/she did not know it was fraudulent documentation. There is no reason to believe 2006 will bring any different action than that NOT DONE ACTION from 1986 to date.

The government is great at passing laws, but really lousy at enforcing them or even planning for future enforcement. The laws being proposed are ludicrous. How does one prove they have been in the country five or more years? The fraudulent paperwork industry will thrive. Pay back taxes? And how do they propose figuring out what back taxes somebody owes? Totally asinine suggestion, Mr. Kennedy and Mr. McCain. Everyone with less than five years, but more than two will go back to the border, register, and be allowed back across. Well, that should bring all the illegals out of the woodwork and running for the border to do that very thing. It is not going to happen. Everyone else has to go home? That is even less likely than all of the above.

It is difficult to believe our representatives graduated grade school. Their mental faculties are seriously lacking in this subject area. Or could it be another case of they just don’t care enough to think the situation through to a logical conclusion? Politics before common sense, as usual.

Posted by: Kathy at April 14, 2006 9:28 PM
Comment #140762

Corruption always grows where there is Power, and a lack of Education, Transparency, and Education.

Lying is expected where corruption is allowed to flourish.

Just look at the shameful voting records (issues2000.org) of politicians these days.

But, government is so dyfunctional, lying isn’t even required.

The bar is set so low, some voters don’t even care anymore about the crimes their own congress persons commit.

Bought-and-paid-for incumbent politicians can create 10,000 page BILLs laden with pork-barrel, graft, bribes, and corporate welfare.

If Republicans are more corrupt (which is possible), it is only because they happen to be the “In-party”. The Democrats will probably get their turn, soon, to be irresponsible too.
They just take turns, which is why things continue to get worse.

Why is Congress unable to ever pass any common-sense, no-brainer, responsible reforms (such as One-Purpose-Per-BILL, Campaign Finance, Ban Gifts, Ban Soft Money Donatinos, pass immigration reform, eliminate the marraige penalty tax, tax reform, election reform, stop eminent domain abuse, Balanced Budget Amendment, etc., etc., etc.), but they can vote themselves a raise and cu$hy perk$ in a heart beat ?

We should vote out all of the irresponsible incumbents, and keep the good ones.

Any one know any good ones?

Before you write your check tomorrow to pay your taxes, perhaps you should see how government spends your money …

Just consider some of these fine examples of what our illustrious Congress has been doing, and some of the very difficult decisions they make daily (while our troops are dying):

  • Vote for $107,000 to study the sex life of the Japanese quail or Vote for body armor for troops with armor ?

  • Vote for $1.2 million to study the breeding habits of the woodchuck

  • more funding for disabled veterans ?

  • Vote for $150,000 to study the Hatfield-McCoy feud or more armor for humvees and military vehicles ?

  • Vote for $84,000 to find out why people fall in love or secure the nation’s borders ?

  • Vote for $1 million to study why people don’t ride bikes to work or fix the levees in New Orleans ?

  • Vote for $19 million to examine gas emissions from cow flatulence

  • shore up the plundered Social Security and Medicare systems ?

  • Vote for $144,000 to see if pigeons follow human economic laws or funding for flu vaccines.

  • Vote for funds to study the cause of rudeness on tennis courts and examine smiling patterns in bowling alleys or improve public education ?

  • Vote for $219,000 to teach college students how to watch television ?

  • vote use that money for scholarships ?

  • Vote for $2 million to construct an ancient Hawaiian canoe or secure the nation’s coastal ports ?

  • Vote for $20 million for a demonstration project to build wooden bridges
  • fix our crumbling infrastructure (bridges, roads, railways, etc.) ?

  • Vote for $160,000 to study if you can hex an opponent by drawing an X on his chest or reduce election/voting fraud ?

  • Vote for $800,000 for a restroom on Mt. McKinley or better medical care for injured soldiers and veterans ?

  • Vote for $100,000 to study how to avoid falling spacecraft or funding for better defense systems ?

  • Vote for $16,000 to study the operation of the komungo, a Korean stringed instrument or funding fight diabetes, aids, and other diseases ?

  • Vote for $1 million to preserve a sewer in Trenton, NJ, as a historic monument or improve existing and operational water treatment and sewer systems ?

  • Vote for $6,000 for a document on Worcestershire sauce or better intelligence that would prevent us from going to war for the wrong reasons ?

  • Vote for $10,000 to study the effect of naval communications on a bull’s potency or funding for communications and aerial surveillance of our borders and coastlines ?

  • Vote for $100,000 to research soybean-based ink or funding to increase produce production ?

  • Vote for $1 million for a Seafood Consumer Center or reform our ridiculous tax system ?

  • Vote for $57,000 spent by the Executive Branch for gold-embossed playing cards on Air Force Two or more and better weapons and armor for active duty troops.

See cagw.org for more examples.

Posted by: d.a.n at April 14, 2006 9:48 PM
Comment #140763

Kathy, Kathy,

(He! He! couldn’t resist) I think you’re on the hunt. This is pure politics. Neither side wanted a bill. They didn’t expect their landscapers and maids to march in the streets and are waiting to smell which way the wind blows before extending their turtle necks out too far.

Posted by: gergle at April 14, 2006 9:53 PM
Comment #140768

It’s a big fricking lie. Essentially Mehlman’s saying we’re for making illegal immigration a felony because weren’t for applying a criminal penalty. How does that work?

Truth is, we’re for deporting illegal aliens and prosecuting the employers who use them knowing their status. I’m in particular for loosening the immigration laws to make it easier for people to get in legally, while beefing up security and enforcement elsewhere. Acknowledge the demand, get better control of the supply.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at April 14, 2006 10:16 PM
Comment #140774

Lying comes naturally to everyone. It’s not lying that’s the tricky part.

Of course, the problem is when that lie affects millions of people and not much can be done to stop it.

Posted by: Zeek at April 14, 2006 10:50 PM
Comment #140775

Paul,

One “change” I would make to your statement, “Since Democrats were against any sort of criminalization of illegals they voted against it.” IMO it should state “Since Democrats were against any FURTHER criminalization of illegals they voted against it.”

After all, we don’t want the Neo-Cons nit-picking over teeny tiny indiscreprencies. Illegal immigration already requires deportation. As Kathy points out there are already sufficient laws in place. The laws are simply not enforced. OTOH border security is more important than it ever was, along with port security, etc.

Honestly, if anyone read the McCain / Kennedy bill I don’t see what fault they could possibly find with it. It’s a perfectly common sense solution to an impossible situation. The only real alternative is to start down a path to the next holocaust and we will totally be responsible for this one if we let it happen.

If anyone thinks “race” has nothing to do with it just stop and think. During the “protests”, which all remained peaceful, I heard numerous media accounts of “illegal aliens” marching in the streets. When asked how they knew how the marchers were illegal the common response was, “how do you know they’re not”. WOW! Think about it.

Since I am a Democrat feel free to blame it all on me, we’re used to it.

KansasDem

Posted by: KansasDem at April 14, 2006 10:50 PM
Comment #140783

If the democrats believed that illegal aliens were republican, then they would be in favor of stricter measures to punish and deport them. I suspect that there would be no lame discussion of the prohibitive cost of prosecution then.


Paul:

Congratulations! If you wanted to deter posting by those with different opinions you’re off to a good start with your baldfaced statement that republicans are liars. Not much nuance to that premise, but it lays your prejudices in plain sight. It must be satisfying to see your lack of civility echoed by NOrby who posted the following.

… God, can’t we have one place to debate without idiot trolls like Duano?
Go back to Yahoo boards, dude. This place is for fair debate and rational thought …

It will certainly be easier for liberal posters to pat one another on the back for their compassionate, tolerant attitudes if they succeed in suppressing all dissenting viewpoints.

Posted by: goodkingned at April 14, 2006 11:28 PM
Comment #140786

“It’s a big fricking lie. Essentially Mehlman’s saying we’re for making illegal immigration a felony because weren’t for applying a criminal penalty. How does that work?”

Stephen,

You’ve got it! Tom Tancredo from Colorado started this felony crap. Do a little “googling” on his district. Racism my friend, loud and clear. The racists must always have a race to attack. Every estimate I read puts the Mexican illegals at 52% to 60% of all illegals, but still we mostly hear about the Mexicans!

I had actually begun to place a lot of trust in d.a.n.’s words and philosophy until he professed to the philosophy of D.A. King and stated that King was not racist. That’s damn questionable. Much of his site links to VDARE. Check it out yourself:
http://www.vdare.com/why_vdare.htm
One simple quote: “But if, through some miracle of genetic recombination, Virginia Dare is reborn in Ms. Locklear’s beautiful face, John White might well have recognized her.”

Of course he speaks of Heather Locklear because her beauty is the opinion of VDARE founder, Peter Brimelow’s, ideal American woman. No racism here!

You can check out the truth at the Southern Poverty Law Center’s site here:
http://www.splcenter.org/intel/news/item.jsp?aid=51

Oh, out of fairness here’s D.A. Kings’ website:
http://www.theamericanresistance.com/index.html

You decide.

I’m proud of Kennedy crossing the isle to come up with some common sense legislation. America first!

KansasDem


Posted by: KansasDem at April 14, 2006 11:33 PM
Comment #140788

GKN,

I’m not sure if you’re republican, independent or what, but I’m sure you know I’m a Democrat.

How many times have you seen me grace the other boards with my presence? I believe the proper count would be once!

I feel no need to argue my point with those who obviously oppose me. Why some of you feel such a need to “rain on our parade” I’ll never really understand. But, it really is indicative of where your party is going.

KansasDem

Posted by: KansasDem at April 14, 2006 11:44 PM
Comment #140813

KansasDem:

To be truthful, I was unaware that the boards were intended to be segregated. I thought they were open forums. I will consider this info.

To All Dems and Libs:

Do you concur with KansasDem regarding preferring to be with your own kind?

Posted by: goodkingned at April 15, 2006 1:44 AM
Comment #140815

GKN,

I only posted that in responce to your comments towards Paul:

“Congratulations! If you wanted to deter posting by those with different opinions you’re off to a good start with your baldfaced statement that republicans are liars. Not much nuance to that premise, but it lays your prejudices in plain sight.”

Just like a republican. set new rules and then complain when someone else tries to point it out!

KansasDem

PS: I actually prefer a heated debate to one that’s lukewarm.

Posted by: KansasDem at April 15, 2006 2:03 AM
Comment #140816

KansasDem:

Good man! I’m glad to hear that. I was sure that you were made of sterner stuff.

Posted by: goodkingned at April 15, 2006 2:08 AM
Comment #140817

GKN,

You do get what I was saying then? Not asking you to agree, just to understand I was not suggesting that we “segregate”.

IMO, you suggested that Paul presented this post in a way that might discourage reading or comment from the right. I actually think it was more of a “bring it on” title, but my point was “no one’s invited to the party”! If you show up and don’t like the music don’t expect a new band though.

KansasDem

Posted by: KansasDem at April 15, 2006 2:42 AM
Comment #140821

KansasDem:

Don’t change the music for me. I posted what I did because NOrby basically invited all nonbelievers to exit the site so that the believers could have a real debate. I don’t agree with Duano most of the time either, but a debate usually requires opposing views.

The reason that I called Paul on his piece is that he often offers inflammatory and innaccurate or at least incomplete information in his topics. By presenting part of the story he spreads misinformation. One example that comes to mind is the piece about republicans killing the immigration bill. There is room for debate about the intention of the republican legislators on this issue, but it should be noted that the republicans’ stated reason for not supporting the compromise bill was the democrats’ refusal to consider as many ammendments as the republicans thought were necessary.

I’m not even saying that the republicans’ intention was not to materially alter the bill. I’m just saying that the republicans’ stated objections should be included. It wouldn’t matter to me if Paul then proceeded to dispute the integrity or relevance of the repubs’ objections. I just feel that people should get better information than talking points if they bother to spend time reading blogs.

Also, I think that the aggressive stance Paul takes causes Red aggression and prevents discussion. I don’t enjoy this sort of topic anyway. Frankly, I’m not well informed enough to add any real perspective to this discussion. I don’t follow the ins and outs of most congressional disputes. I just looked in because of the inflammatory title and responded to NOrby’s comment banishing trolls.

My apologies to Paul for focusing on him. I’m sure that he won’t lose sleep over my comments and I’m glad.

I come to the blue column because the topics are often the most interesting. Also, I don’t agree completely with any of the three viewpoints reflected on Watchblog. I am a fiscal conservative and a social liberal with libertarian tendencies. However, I support the war. You can see there is no one column that I can make my home.

Posted by: goodkingned at April 15, 2006 3:33 AM
Comment #140827

gkn,

You’re probably just being hysterical…

Posters on both sides exagerate. Paul could have said ‘All Republicans lie, but some Democrats tell the truth, but it would have toned the title to numbness. Norby might have used incorrect phrasing, but perhaps he was otherwise correct? Some don’t enter in order to discuss or debate, but rather to cuss and bate.

Posted by: Marysdude at April 15, 2006 6:18 AM
Comment #140832

Of course Republicans lie, it’s part of their M.O.
Congressional Republicans thought that by introducing frivolous immigration legislation that it would shift public attention away from the ever abyssmal and unpopular war in Iraq, which turned out to be true but as a consequence it backfired on them.
Now they need to shift attention and blame away from their party because they know that they messed up, they know they won’t get elected again and this is nothing but an act of despiration to save their sinking ship.

Posted by: Michael Ajitsingh at April 15, 2006 7:14 AM
Comment #140839

Cheers to the greatest liar of all time.

While pointing his finger in our face. “I want you to listen to me - I did not …….. We all know the rest of the story.

AND

The only way Ted would cross the isle is if he is drunk and needs to lay down for a little while.

Posted by: nunya at April 15, 2006 9:34 AM
Comment #140840

Lying is unfortunately a human thing. I mean my dog has never lied to me. Politicians love to lie republicans and democrats have turned it into an art form; it’s called spin. Fortunately we all know when someone is lying, in the case of the republicans, it is just catching up with them. I mean it’s fair and balanced (doesn’t have to be the truth)

Posted by: ed at April 15, 2006 10:07 AM
Comment #140849

Lying Comes Naturally to Republicans..


OH COME ON!!! PUH-LEESE!!!

Do you think you could POSSIBLY be more hysterically PARTISAN???

Put away the Democratic talking points…and let’s tell a couple of jokes to point out how rediculous the title of this is.

Q) How can you tell when a politician (REP OR DEM) is lying?

A) His lips are moving.


I would say that EVERYONE (yes, boys and girls…that’s REPS AND DEMS!!!) in Congress lies like a dog trotting…except that that would be an insult to the dog trotting…

Get a grip, everyone.

Lying is NOT the exclusive province of Republicans. And remember that when you point your finger (however PARTISAN that finger is…), there are 3 fingers pointing right back at ‘cha…


Posted by: Jim T at April 15, 2006 11:48 AM
Comment #140854
KansasDem wrote: Stephen, You’ve got it! Tom Tancredo from Colorado started this felony crap. Do a little “googling” on his district. Racism my friend, loud and clear. The racists must always have a race to attack. Every estimate I read puts the Mexican illegals at 52% to 60% of all illegals, but still we mostly hear about the Mexicans!
KansasDem, First of all, race has nothing to do with illegal aliens, and you are correct to discredit any one who does so. I also loathe racism.
KansasDem wrote: I had actually begun to place a lot of trust in d.a.n.’s words and philosophy until he professed to the philosophy of D.A. King and stated that King was not racist. That’s damn questionable.
KansasDem, I am not responsible for other peoples’ racism, than you are responsible for what I or anyone else says.

If there are obvious racist motives to links and other things people write that I have provided links to, or referred to, then I will denounce them myself, and remove those links and references to their sites, and join in disgust with others that loathe racism too.

KansasDem wrote: Much of his site links to VDARE. Check it out yourself: http://www.vdare.com/why_vdare.htm One simple quote: “But if, through some miracle of genetic recombination, Virginia Dare is reborn in Ms. Locklear’s beautiful face, John White might well have recognized her.”
John White was a colony governor, grandfather of Virginia’s Dare. I could be wrong, and I don’t vouch 100% for other people’s actions anyway, but I think you have VDARE all wrong. They have over a dozen writers, and while I have not read everything they have ever written, I don’t see the racism you imply. They write a lot about racial issues (good and bad), but that does not make them racist, nor does it make D.A. King for linking to the VDARE site, nor does it make me a racist for referring to them either. If they are racist, they won’t be my friend anymore.

KansasDem,
It is dangerous and unfair to condemn people by mere association. Espeicially, when you ignore all by that is said or done by that person for many years. Perhaps you should judge a person by their own actions first. Look at both, because none of us can completely vouch for any one else.

I am sorry if I have lost your respect, but let me be clear. I do not support racism. Also, all that I have written, I refer to illegal aliens; not any particular race or color. That is unimportant. The issue is the devastating negative impact of massive, uncontrolled illegal immigration. That’s all. Those that try to turn it into a race/color/nationality/ethnic issue do so as a last resort due to the weakness of their arguments.

KansasDem wrote: You can check out the truth at the Southern Poverty Law Center’s site here. … You decide.
What does the link you just provided have to do with VDARE or D.A. King’s TheAmericanResistance.com ? That sort of tactic is not fair.

KansasDem wrote:
You are refering to a link that contains racist comments by others, but have nothing to do with D.A. King or VDARE . Why?

I think if there was something glaringly racist about anything D.A. King or the dozen writers at VDARE ever said over the many years, you would have provided a lot more convincing. You, yourself, above, said “That’s damn questionable.”
So, you were not even 100% convinced of your own conclusions.

But, that does not matter.

KansasDem wrote: I had actually begun to place a lot of trust in d.a.n.’s words and philosophy until he professed to the philosophy of D.A. King and stated that King was not racist. That’s damn questionable.

KansasDem wrote:,
You infer that I am racist.
I challenge you to find anything I have posted on watchblog over the last two years that is racist (good luck).

I find your inference highly offensive.

You are entitled to you opinion, but your inferences that others are racist without evidence, or by mere association, makes your credibility “damn questionable”.

KansasDum wrote: I’m proud of Kennedy crossing the isle to come up with some common sense legislation. America first!
KansasDem, I actually agree that making it a felony for merely being here illegally is a farce. Especially when we practically invited them with freebies (i.e. welfare, Medicaid, Social Security, public education, and greedy employers of illegal aliens that profit mostly by exploiting cheap labor).

We may disagree on the solution, but that does not necessarily make those that disagree, racists.

The solution requires:

  • Several things happen simultaneously.

  • It has nothing to do with race and that should be strongly discouraged.

  • Some compassion and fairness is required.

  • We should not try to arrest or deport 12 million illegal aliens.

  • U.S. Tax payers can’t keep paying for the poverty we are importing. Tax payers are losing an estimated $70 billion per year. California alone is losing over $10.5 billion per year due to burdened education, hospital, ER, healthcare, law enforcement, welfare, Medicaid, Medicare, Social Security, voting, and prison systems, and the unknown cost of increased crime rates.

  • Secure the borders (with resources we already have; the initial cost ($8 billion) and annual cost ($10 billion) would be far less then the current annaul loses estimated at $70 billion per year; $24 billion per year in 1996 (source: Center for Immigration Studies))

  • Require enforcement of all immigration laws. Enforce the existing laws.

  • Require deportation of ALL illegal entries and visa overstays in our custody.

  • Require ALL employers to use the Social Security Verification System for ALL hires.

  • Deny ALL illegal alien births automatic citizenship.

  • Deny ALL illegal aliens a FREE K-12 education.

  • Deny ALL illegal aliens ANY and ALL ‘public benefits’.

  • Deny ALL illegal aliens driver’s licenses and in-state college tuition.

  • Verify ALL voter’s citizenship, before permission to vote.

  • Provide (at our cost) transporation for those that voluntarily want to be deported to their homeland. Most of the rest will voluntarily leave once all the freebies are eliminated.
  • If they want to become U.S. citizens, they must get in line, just like the hundreds of thousands of legal immigrants that respect everyone else, play by the rules, and do so legally.
  • Of course, lots of people want to come to the U.S.
    Especially with all the freebies and handouts, no taxes (paid under the table). Duh!
    But, the pie can’t get any bigger.
    We are seeing the usual problems associated with massive, uncontrolled illegal immigration. It creates chaos, societal disorder, resentments, crime, and fuels racism and hatred.

  • The U.S. middleclass is being squeezed by greedy corporations that now have 45-year record high profits, while U.S. median household incomes have been falling for 6 consecutive years. Healthcare, insurance, and education are becoming unaffordable. Property taxes are climbing fast.
    It is not fair nor sustainable to burden U.S. taxpayers this way, merely because some bought-and-paid-for politicians and their puppeteers (corporations, illegal alien lobbyists, greedy employers of illegal aliens).

  • The argument that all U.S. taxpayers profit from cheap labor is a myth.
    No one can prove the mythical benefits, because it is a myth.
    The costs are all too easy to prove.
    First of all, most illegal aliens are not highly skilled or highly educated. Over 50% are paid under the table (i.e. pay no income taxes; neither does the greedy employers of illegal aliens).
    There is ample evidence to show that losses in the many tens of billions per year,

  • … and those costs do not even include the massive cost of increasing crime rates, and at least one person murdered in CA, TX, and AZ every 86 hours by an illegal alien (source: GAO-5646R, GAO-5337R), 29% of all prisoners are illegal aliens, and 32% of all illegal aliens receive welfare.

The rights of foreigners, that illegally trespass our borders, do not trump the rights of a sovereign nation to secure their own border.

The U.S. is not for the public use of the rest of the world no more than your home is for the public use by anyone that isn’t invited. We must enforce the existing laws and prosecute those that illegally employ illegal trespassers.

  • Where is our companssion for the one person murdered every 86 hours by an illegal alien (source: GAO-5646R)
  • Where is your compassion for U.S. citizens that go without healthcare and access to ERs because ERs and hospitals are over-flowing with illegal aliens (of which many don’t pay)? Is this fair to U.S. tax payers?
  • Where is your compassion for the truly needy U.S. citizens that can not get help because of limited resources and 32% of illegal aliens receive welfare ?
  • Where is your compassion for the illegal aliens being lured here for sub-minimum wage jobs, creating an under-class (practically slavery) ?
  • Where is the outrage of the greedy employers of illegal aliens ?
  • Where is your compassion for the U.S. victims and survivors of crimes perpetrated by illegal aliens (29% of all prisoners are illegal aliens), and the crime rates are rising.
  • Where is your compassion for U.S. Americans who’s lives have been changed forever by illegal aliens that spread disease ? One illegal alien in Santa Barbara, California infected 56 other people with tuberculosis as reported on April 24, 2004, by the Santa Barbara Press-News, “Anatomy of an Outbreak”. Because illegal alien migration into the USA continues unabated for the past 20 years, we now have 16,000 new cases of incurable MDR tuberculosis in the past five years. We suffer 7,000 new cases of leprosy. We tolerate 100,000 new cases of hepatitis “A” in our society. Chagas Disease, which affects 14 million South Americans and kills 50,000 annually, streams across our borders as unchecked thousands of them enter our society. If you child goes to public school, they could be exposed, as thousands already have been.
  • Where is your compassion for the U.S. tax payers that lose many tens of billions per year due to all the numerous problems stemming from illegal aliens?
  • In view of all that above, how could anyone use the excuse that the U.S. would crumble (economically) without cheap labor? Even if it were true (which it isn’t), does that justify an sub-minimum-wage under-class ? The economics issue is unsubstantiated, since the majority of those low wage jobs are not highly skilled jobs. Even if it were true, are we so afraid we will have to pay a little more for something that we would condone an underclass? Are we all going to be like Senator Linsey Graham (D-SC) who said: “as a golfer, I probably benefit from their [illegal aliens] labor.” ? Nevermind that S.C. has the highest rate of violent crime (excluding D.C.) of any state in the U.S. and it is largely due to illegal aliens.
  • Where is your compassion for all of the U.S. policemen murdered by illegal aliens? On 13-Nov-2005, Brian Jackson, a Dallas policeman was shot and killed by an illegal alien, Juan Lizcano. Lizcano had become drunk and went to the home of his ex-girfriend to threaten her. As the police pursued Lizcano after he fled the woman’s home, he shot Officer Jackson, who died later in the hospital. Officer Jackson was remembered by his fellow police as someone who loved his job and always went the extra mile. In Denver, Colorado, an illegal deliberately ran over a Denver polceman in a school cross walk “breaking his legs along with severe internal injuries. This is not anectdotal. This tragedy has occurred over and over in many cities across the U.S.
  • Where is your compassion for all of the people that do not want to see a repeat of 11-Sep-2001, perpetrated by several illegal aliens ?
  • The Center for Immigration Studies in Washington indicates that U.S. households (in 2002) headed by illegal aliens used $26.3 billion in government services, but only paid in $16 billion in taxes, which is an annual loss to California taxpayers of $10 billion. That was four years ago. It’s even worse now.

Crime is only one of the many problems.
The following are other serious issues, other than crime, stemming from illegal aliens:


  • burden on education systems;

  • burden on healthcare systems;

  • burden on hospital systems;

  • burden on welfare systems;

  • burden on Social Security system;

  • burden on Medicaid system;

  • burden on severely overburdened border patrol systems;

  • burden on insurance systems; illegal aliens can/will not pay for damages they cause;

  • burden on law enforcement systems; costing California billions per year;

  • burden on prison systems;

  • voter fraud; burden on voting systems;

It’s best to stick to the facts.
Calling others racist, only destroys one’s own credibility.
Race has nothing to do with the problems stemming from massive, uncontrolled illegal immigration.
The issues have nothing to do with race, color, nationality, ethnicity into the issue.

More importantly, and of a higher priority, we must remember we also have a duty to American U.S. citizens that are going without because of illegal aliens.

Compassion is good, and needed, but we must not fail to show compassion for our own sick, elderly, and truly needy that are U.S. citizens who deserve our tax payer services more !

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Lastly, remember … no reforms (including immigration reform) are possible until one fundamental change is made first. All voters need to do is the one simple, common-sense, no-brainer, non-partisan, safe, peaceful, inexpensive, and responsible thing voters were supposed to be doing all along:


Vote out (or recall) all irresponsible incumbents, always, every election, until no more irresponsible incumbents exist, and government finally agrees to pass the many badly-needed, common-sense, responsible reforms that incumbents have refused to pass for so many decades.

Posted by: d.a.n at April 15, 2006 12:38 PM
Comment #140861

KansasDem,
By the way, illegal aliens come from everywhere of all races, color, nationality, etc. (from all over the world).
However, more than half come across our southern border (not just Mexico, but originating from many other countries (e.g. in South America, Central America, Iraq, China, etc.).
Focus on the southern border is just common sense, and it is not said with malice.
That is simply a fact.
However, it would be nice if Mexico cooperated more.
We should never concentrate on race or color or original nationality, but it can not be ignored that the southern border is the location of entry for most illegal aliens. That is logically the first place to focus on. Unfortunately, too many focus on the majority (over half of which are native citizens of Mexico).

But, anyone pointing out that obvious fact; that the southern border is the most trespassed border does not make a person a racist.

It would be best however if people just stick to the main issue of massive, uncontrolled, illegal immigration and all of the problems stemming from it. Just the facts. Just the economic factors are staggering. The increased crime rates are a serious issue of untold misery and cost … all crimes that should have never occurred.

If the number of illegal aliens is allowed to double again, and again, growing geometrically, within a mere few years, we will all become accutely aware of the problem.

The end result will be that this nation will potentially be bankrupt faster than anyone expected. Also, importing poverty, and low-educated, low-skilled labor, and forcing the burden onto U.S. taxpayers (while greedy corporations are the few that profit mostly, as evidenced by falling median wages for 6 years, increasing crime, increasing law enforcement of prisons and law enforcement, and rising property taxes to pay for increasingly expensive public education simultaneously falling quality, paying for bilingual education, etc., etc., etc.).

Also, most Americans understand all of this,k and most Americans want the problem addressed.

If the politicians continue to ignore the problem, as they do so often, they may risk their cu$hy, coveted seats of abused power.
The federal government was complicit in creating this serious problem, by forcing states and tax payers to:

  • allow illegal aliens to attend our public schools,

  • use our welfare, Medicaid, Medicare, Social Security,

  • avoid taxation,

  • avoid the need for drivers’ licenses and auto-inurance,

  • use our healthcare, hospitals, and ER doctors as their primary care physicians; 32% of all illegal aliens receive welfare;

  • deport illegal aliens over and over (dozens of times)

  • release incarcerated illegal aliens due to prison over-crowding (29% of prisoners are illegal aliens;)

  • and even vote in our elections.
  • Posted by: d.a.n at April 15, 2006 1:44 PM
    Comment #140863

    “It will certainly be easier for liberal posters to pat one another on the back for their compassionate, tolerant attitudes if they succeed in suppressing all dissenting viewpoints”

    Goodking,
    Try and actually read my words before you comment on them.
    I’m not advocating suppressing dissenting views, but stupid stereotypes are not worthy views. They are the stuff of Yahoo message board trolls.
    Here’s the comment that made me call Duano a troll:
    “sweat shop workers, welfare bums, criminals, terrorists, anyone who normally votes for the Democrats,”

    So, I’m supposed to seriously ponder his view that Democrats are made up of terrorists, welfare bums, criminals, etc? THAT’S worthy debate in your book?
    I come to this forum to actually be able to discuss and debate other intelligent people with opinions both like mine, and opposite of mine. Stupid crap like Duano posts is the antithesis of rational debate. And I’m tired of being insulted for being a Democrat. Grow up.

    Posted by: Norby at April 15, 2006 1:52 PM
    Comment #140865

    This is not an issue of race, nationality, social status, or any of the other purported reasons that the majority of Americans are against illegal alien amnesty. It is a matter of “the law is the law is the law”. I break a law, there are consequences. Why a a free pass for illegals?

    The blatant fact is the rich, and most politicians are rich, will benefit most by any law granting a pass to illegals currently in this country. They have to spin this, however, and the best way is to point the finger at their constituency and voice that shameful word, “racist”. The politician is immediately absolved of any guilt.

    In the book by Peter Schweizer “Do As I Say (Not As I Do)” he details the hypocrisy of the rich, particularly politicians, in supporting immigrant amnesty. Hillary Clinton, Ted Kennedy, Nancy Pelosi, Diane Feinstein, and even Michael Moore, the icon of liberal thinking, all have an agenda. They all either have or do make liberal (no pun intended) use of illegal labor pools. Michael Moore edits his documentaries in Canada because it is cheaper to do so there. Remember Bernard Kerik who George Bush tapped to be Homeland Security Chief pre-Michael Chertoff? He could not accept because his housekeeper is an illegal whom he had never paid taxes on. Don’t believe I ever read about Mr. Kerik suffering any consequences, however.

    This is a win-win situation for most politicians. Continued cheap labor for them and their rich constituency and shoring up the political base with the gratitude of the legal relatives who smuggled in their 50 closest relatives. They write off their complaining constituency by holding up the “race card” and shaking their head in grief that they have to represent these cruel, callous racists. Ted Kennedy, Hillary Clinton, George Bush, John McCain, could care less that any commoner may suffer fewer benefits, downgraded educational facilities, higher medical costs because of the gross expenditures for illegal aliens. Their children go to private schools, their positions ensure generous health coverage and lifelong benefits after only eight years of service. What a deal.

    Right now the borders resemble the George Washington Bridge in New York. Hundreds of illegals are crossing daily to get here before the amnesty bill is passed. The fraudulent paperwork experts are ordering extra supplies for the rush to meet the demand for papers proving the illegals have been here illegally for more than five years. Think about that twist on the old ruse. Papers proving one is illegal? Only in America.

    Who wants to wager that the $2000 fine and back taxes will never happen? How can the bleeding hearts possibly expect sub-minimum wage illegals to pay that kind of money - I smell another amnesty coming. You RACISTS will probably stomp and angrily denounce the government for not adhering to their own laws.

    Bottom Line - all politicians lie. Each and everyone of them. The nature of the beast.

    Posted by: Kathy at April 15, 2006 2:00 PM
    Comment #140868

    NOrby:

    Alright, point taken. Duano comments are hard to swallow and I admit that I frequently page down through them.

    But given that your statement … I’m tired of being insulted for being a Democrat. … is appearing on a thread entitled “Lying Comes Naturally to Republicans”, I hope that you will admit that partisan insults flow in both directions.

    Posted by: goodkingned at April 15, 2006 2:22 PM
    Comment #140875

    GK,
    The purpose of the originator of this forum is to spark debate.
    Yes, sometimes it’s a little over the top. But we dont have to be.
    If everyone would agree, I’d sign on to promising to never hurl insults, stereotypes, or troll like comments about general groups like liberals, conservatives, dem and reps, etc.
    Now, elected officials, I think, are fair game since their actions affect everyone. If you hate Harry Reid, then torch him. Just dont say things that blanket EVERY democrat like were all one big homogeneous blob.
    What say?

    Posted by: Norby at April 15, 2006 2:53 PM
    Comment #140883

    “I did have sex with that woman” …pause…. “Hillary Clinton”

    Posted by: Reporter for Doody at April 15, 2006 3:29 PM
    Comment #140885

    Not being as politically astute as many of you are, I find both the so-called blue and red sides of this site to be very informative - most of the time.

    And I like a lively debate as much as anyone.

    But then there are days like this one, where the Democrats are calling the Repblicans liars, the Republicans are calling the Democrats liars, the Libertarians don’t put much trust in either one and the Independents are, well they’re independent.

    When did we all stop being just Americans, with a common goal of making our country one that we can be proud of and the rest of the world can respect and trust?

    The preamble to the U.S. Constitution says that “We the people” created this country and “we the people” run it, via our elected officials. At least that’s the way I understand it to be.

    That’s not the way it is today. The politicans run the country as they see fit and to hell with “we the people.”

    When will “we the people” wake up and realize that our country has been stolen from us by politicians who serve what’s in their own best interests, not what’s in the best of the nation.

    It’s not a Democrat problem or a Republican problem, it’s an American problem.

    Can’t we focus less on what divides us and more on what unites us?

    Posted by: ulysses at April 15, 2006 3:34 PM
    Comment #140886

    Dems dont get it - their blind hatred of Bush obscures facts as does their constant patter about Bush lied.

    Clearly - Americans want laws to be inforced or modified. The Senate will do neither and blame Bush.

    Posted by: Reporting for Doody at April 15, 2006 3:36 PM
    Comment #140887

    >>I’d sign on to promising to never hurl insults, stereotypes, or troll like comments about general groups like liberals, conservatives, dem and reps, etc.

    Posted by: Norby at April 15, 2006 02:53 PM

    Nahh! Norby, that would require a vocabulary with words of more than four letters…few on the right can adhere to that. Sorry, I just couldn’t resist one final broad-brush…they lie down with dogs and get up with fleas, etc. In other words they are just no darned good…let’s convert them all to the ‘far side’…especially Duano…and sic-eagle…and, and, and…

    Posted by: Marysdude at April 15, 2006 3:39 PM
    Comment #140890

    “Dems dont get it - their blind hatred of Bush obscures facts as does their constant patter about Bush lied. “

    He did. Many times.
    I guess your not signing onto our little pact then?

    “Clearly - Americans want laws to be inforced or modified. The Senate will do neither and blame Bush.”

    I think the question is WHAT KIND of modification?
    And what status the people we need to work here will have.
    Felony status was just plain stupid. That would require MILLIONS of hearings and court cases, families ripped apart, kids that lived here their whole lives suddenly shipped to Mexico?
    TOTALLY unrealistic.
    What’s YOUR suggestion?

    Posted by: Norby at April 15, 2006 4:01 PM
    Comment #140918

    d.a.n.:

    You know, I’d be more inclined to read your posts if you could keep them under 37 pages!:-)

    Posted by: Tim Crow at April 15, 2006 7:06 PM
    Comment #140929
    Clearly - Americans want laws to be inforced or modified. The Senate will do neither and blame Bush.

    Posted by: Reporting for Doody at April 15, 2006 03:36 PM

    Doody,

    How does that relate to the fact the Congress is controlled by the GOPer’s? Do you think they’re finally cutting the lame duck loose even with the risk of alienating the Bush-voting donortards?

    Posted by: Dave at April 15, 2006 7:56 PM
    Comment #140949

    Ulysses,

    One lone voice, almost lost in the crowd. How wonderful to hear a voice calling for unity. Just what our great nation needs. Thank you!

    I have come to this site over the past several months and enjoy most debates. I have not posted previously as there is usually an opinion from one side or the other that will elicit a response which mirrors my own. (No need to repeat the same opinion.) Guess my label is “lurker” as was described in a previous post.

    However, I am impressed by most of you and your political savvy and never thought myself to be as politically educated; or to use ulysses discription “politically astute” as many of you. We truly need to think about ulysses message of unity, “We the People”.

    Thanks for sharing opinions from all sides. Also, thanks for the “continuing education”.

    United We Stand!!!

    Posted by: Lane at April 15, 2006 10:36 PM
    Comment #140964
    Ulysses wrote: When will “we the people” wake up and realize that our country has been stolen from us by politicians who serve what’s in their own best interests, not what’s in the best of the nation.

    It’s not a Democrat problem or a Republican problem, it’s an American problem.

    Can’t we focus less on what divides us and more on what unites us?

    Ulysses, you get it.

  • How do we help others get it like you ?

  • How do we help them see past their hatred ?

  • How do we help them see past their racism?
  • How do we help them see past their partisan bigotry?

  • How do we help them to stop wallowing in the petty partisan warfare?

  • How do we help them see how many politicians whip them all into a frenzy, and, in the end, accomplish nothing ?

  • How do we help them see that parties are neither the problem or the solution ?

  • How do we help them realize the parties are just taking turns (because it’s really incumbents; not parties) ?

  • How do we help convince them to simply do the one simple, common sense, peaceful, safe, inexpensive, non-partisan, and responsible thing they were supposed to be doing all along (vote out all irresponsible incumbents, always)?

  • Education is the first step.
    The problem is rooted in one fundamental human trait:
    The human factor must be understood, so that our systems can account for the human factor, place adequate emphasis on Education, Transparency, and Accountability, and the Power needed to accomplish anything.

    I think too many voters are under the illusion that most politicians are honest. After all, is it impossible? No. But that’s not the way it is now. Most (if not all) now, are irresponsible, and only a little research of each incumbent can easily prove it.
    That is why, these days, no one can list 10, 20, 50, 100, or even 268 (half of 535) in Congress that are responsible.

    Wow! Unless we can come up with at least 268 (half of 535) in Congress that are responsible, what does that tell us?.
    The bar is set so, so, very low.
    We hear of corruption almost daily, and we say “On well”.
    But there is one simple thing that voters could (and should) do to remedy the situation.

    Education is needed to understand how the root problem (laziness):

  • works for irresponsible incumbents,
  • but works against voters.
  • Politicians have Power by virtue of their office. Power coupled with laziness yields Corruption, because Cheaters can simply create more opportunities for self-gain by simply do nothing, or breeding chaos. Cheaters also get paid hand$omely while doing it on the job, giving themselves more unfair advantages, and making their incumbency more secure and cu$hy.

    The voters’ laziness works against them, because their lack of motivation to observe and monitor politicians, and go vote out irresponsible incumbents (always) takes time and effort for the voters, and voters don’t get paid for their time or effort. Also, it requires time and effort for the voters to maintain sufficient levels of Education, Transparency, and Accountability.

    Therefore, corrupt incumbent politicians have many unfair advantages.

    But, if voters want it enough, voters can restore a balance of power between government and the people, by simply doing the one simple thing voters were supposed to be doing all along: vote out (or recall) all irresponsible incumbents, always, repeatedly, every election, until simple, common-sense, no-brainer, responsible reforms are passed to peacefully force government to be Transparent, Accountable, and Responsible too!

    Posted by: d.a.n at April 15, 2006 11:44 PM
    Comment #140965

    Lane, Ulysses,
    How refreshing to see some common sense.
    You both get it.
    You don’t have to be alone.

    Posted by: d.a.n at April 15, 2006 11:46 PM
    Comment #140968
    d.a.n.: You know, I’d be more inclined to read your posts if you could keep them under 37 pages!:-)
    37 pages ? OOhhhhh…. that’s an exaggeration. 30 pages; maybe. : ) Posted by: d.a.n at April 16, 2006 12:00 AM
    Comment #140970

    NOrby:

    The pact is alright by me. When I first came here, I was excessively combative and I soon determined that I didn’t want to be small minded because it’s not fair and it’s detrimental to me. I think that acting small minded results in smaller minds.

    Let’s have big minds, as opposed to big heads.

    Posted by: goodkingned at April 16, 2006 12:34 AM
    Comment #140991

    Norby who posted “Cheers to the greatest liar of all time.
    While pointing his finger in our face. “I want you to listen to me - I did not …….. We all know the rest of the story.”

    That might be true… BUT the issue is the THINGS that were actually lied about…

    So Clinton cheated on his wife a lied about it! Who cares? Does that affect the President’s ability to lead the country? Does that affect foreign relations? Does that take us to war? The answer is NO.

    I don’t really care what the President does with his persoanl life and if he lies about it or not. What I DO care about is the President’s ability to lead the country n the right direction.

    The current President has failed to do so, and has only managed to take the country into war and into being despised and distrusted by most other countries in the world based on lies. And that I DO have a problem with!

    There are degrees of everything in theis world… Lie about cheating on your wife: wrong? yes! But will it affect the nation? no. Lie about intelligence gathered against Iraq and about domestic spying: wrong? extremely! Will it affect the nation? very much so. And that is the difference.

    Duano who posted “Let’s just open the border to anyone who wants in; sweat shop workers, welfare bums, criminals, terrorists, anyone who normally votes for the Democrats, because we know you guys can’t get enough votes among the actual CITIZENS of this country.”

    So what are you trying to say? that Democrats are sweat shop workers, welfare bums, criminals and/or terrorists? I find that rather insulting…


    Posted by: Elise at April 16, 2006 2:42 AM
    Comment #141009

    Who cares what either the dums or the repukes think. It is all about screwing any citizen any way either is able to do. What made this country good was the melting pot of many different people.

    Posted by: Gary at April 16, 2006 9:21 AM
    Comment #141150
    It is all about screwing any citizen any way either is able to do.

    Power corrupts. It is a human failing. The design of our systems of government, society, business, and all organizations must be adequately designed to account for the human factor . It can never be ignored. Corruption is always trying to grow. Power, opportunities for self gain due to a lack of transparency and accountability helps breed corruption.

    Posted by: d.a.n at April 17, 2006 12:46 AM
    Comment #141196

    DemoRATS GUTTLESS AND FULL OF SHIT!!!

    Posted by: saying at April 17, 2006 11:51 AM
    Comment #141197

    It seems to me that everyone has missed the true meaning of the immigration controversy. The real reason the House Republicans passed this measure was to speak to their base in the South. Republican electoral dominance has been based on the alliance of rural white southern voters with economic conservatives. The southern voters abandoned the Democratic Party with the end of segregation. This controversy is the nexus of the conflicts that may drive a wedge between the two groups. If economic conservatives can no longer stomach the racism evident in this type of legislation the split may lead to real change in the Republican Party.

    Posted by: Chesshokie at April 17, 2006 11:52 AM
    Comment #141198

    Example Wesley Clarke,john kerry,teddy kennedy,al sharpton,all 6 low class to no class generals opposing iraq war.These are all demoRATS.CHEESE EATERS ONE AND ALL.

    Posted by: saying at April 17, 2006 12:03 PM
    Comment #141201

    What is black and white has no spine hates america and lies on a daily basis to hurt america? A DEMORAT!!!!!!!!!!

    Posted by: SAYING at April 17, 2006 12:28 PM
    Comment #141239

    saying,
    What are you saying ?

    Based on flawed intelligence, and no WMD, and potential for civil war, invading Iraq was a bad idea. Noble perhaps, but does our elitist government have the right to be noble with American lives ?

    Besides, demonizing Democrats is petty partisan warfare. That’s exactly what cheater incumbent politicians want you to do.

    Don’t be their pawn.

    Think for yourself.

    Parties are neither the problem or the solution.

    We are all culpable, but the next move is up to the voters, or they will suffer the consequences the most (not the incumbent politicians, who all have golden parachutes or got their already).

    Do your self a favor and finally try the one simple, common-sense, no-brainer, non-partisan, honest, and responsible thing we were supposed to be doing all along? Vote out all irresponsible incumbents, always, every election, until:
    • no more irresponsible incumbents exist,
    • government finally agrees to pass the many badly-needed, common-sense, responsible reforms that incumbent politicians have refused to pass for many decades,
    • and our many pressing problems are finally addressed, instead of being ignored and allowed to grow in number and severity, threatening the future and security of the nation.
    ________________________________________
  • Stop Repeat Offenders.
  • Don’t Re-Elect Them !
  • Posted by: d.a.n at April 17, 2006 4:01 PM
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