Democrats & Liberals Archives

Republicans Kill Immigration Reform

Senate Republicans voted against their own immigration reform bill and killed any chance of action against illegal immigration until later in the year. The vote went along party lines, with Democrats voting in favor of immigration reform and Republicans voting against it. This isn’t really a surprise for two reasons: Republican leaders didn’t want to pass the bill (even though they could have) with more Democratic votes than Republican votes, and the Republican Party no longer knows where they stand on the issue anyhow.

The immigration bill died because Republicans couldn't decide whether they were the party of big business which needs cheap immigrant labor, or the party of national security and law & order which needs to close the border and deport all the illegals. Obviously, as the immigration compromise bill made clear, we can do both, but the Republican Party just can't deal with a 'shades of gray' solution. For them, the solution must be black or white. They have no ability to compromise -- with Democrats or with themselves -- so they deadlocked and proved themselves incapable of resolving one of the most pressing problems facing America today.

The Republican Party is fundamentally divided over the use of torture, spying on American citizens, fiscal responsibility, homeland security, nuclear proliferation, and a host of other issues. The only things that ever united this Republican Party were tax cuts and their mindless hatred of Bill Clinton. Now, with Clinton gone, they can't even agree on tax cuts.

I hate to echo the Democratic talking point, but the Republican Party really is in disarray. Republicans are incapable of leading America at this critical time in our history. As the sole political party dominating all three branches of of government, Republicans must figure out who they are, what the heck they stand for, and where they want to take this country.

Are Republicans the party of fiscal responsibility, or of populist spending and government growth? Are they the party of national security or a new haven for Hispanic votes? Are they the party of personal responsibility, or of expanded Medicare benefits? Are they the party of business and science, or of values and fundamentalist Christianity?

The Republican Party is waffling on issue after issue -- Social Security reform, tough lobby reforms, tax reform, gay marriage, stem cell research, free trade, immigration reform, the budget bill -- because they have no idea who they are or what they really stand for. These issues must be resolved, but our rudderless Republican Party is incapable of doing so.

Posted by American Pundit at April 10, 2006 11:46 AM
Comments
Comment #139563

I am disappointed with the Republicans on this. We need a wall around our country. We need to enforce the law and throw out all these criminals.

Posted by: Aldous at April 10, 2006 12:19 PM
Comment #139575

Aldous may have a point. Let’s have all the illegal immigrants start work on the wall immediately. This will provide the impetus for the “Build Yourself In For A Better America” program.

Posted by: steve smith at April 10, 2006 12:57 PM
Comment #139577

No party has a backbone on this issue.
I am not a racist but we can not afford
the price tag illegals create.
FIRST WE MUST CONTROL THE FLOW.
THEN WE MUST CHARGE THEM FOR THERE
SHARE OF THE AMERICAN DREAM.
They are good people who wish
to be Americans just as our ancesters
did. STOP THE FLOW. Then let this
sort out so it is not a issue in the
future. A Liveing wage will be protected
if no more enter to work below it.
Tax money will be saved if they pay
tax as we do. FlOW IS CONTROL so
the American dream is not lost.

We may pay more for Tomatos
but we save billions in tax money.
Min wage is a law and those who pay
less are breaking it.

Posted by: Honey P at April 10, 2006 1:09 PM
Comment #139586

Both sides are wrong in this one, the Republicans for not even being able to pass the bill even though they have a majority and the Democrats for being more concerned about trying to make the Republicans look even more silly in an attempt to win votes in November than being concerned about taking care of an issue that needs addressed.

I don’t think either side should be pointing too quickly at this debacle!

Posted by: Rhinehold at April 10, 2006 1:46 PM
Comment #139591

I agree Rhinehold.
As if getting rid of the Republicans will magically get rid of all our problems.

Posted by: kctim at April 10, 2006 1:52 PM
Comment #139597

The failure to pass an immigration reform bill is a shame, but this article is misleading because it doesn’t include any discussion of the dispute between Republicans and Democrats about allowing amendments. The Democrats wanted few or none and the Republicans had many lined up for consideration.

I don’t know the particulars of the proposed amendments so I can’t discuss that, but any analysis that doesn’t recognize the Republicans’ claims that Democrats are intransigent on the issue of amendments is, at best, incomplete. The Democrats’ refusal to consider compromise is an important factor in the failure to get this bill passed and nowhere in his article American Pundit include this information. This is just Democratic talking points.

Posted by: goodkingned at April 10, 2006 2:29 PM
Comment #139598

When New Orleans flooded which did we do first, try to get the water out of the city, or try to fix the levee first.

This is a no brainer. No bill, of any sort, should be passed until AFTER we stop the flood of illegal immigrants coming into the country. Any thing else would be trying to remove the water from New Orleans before we fix the levee.

First we stop this flood of immigrants from coming in.

After we have proven able to stop this flood of immigrants coming in, we can start thinking about what to do about the people here.

The poster is right about the Republican party though.

Posted by: Darrius Cole at April 10, 2006 2:32 PM
Comment #139599

CNN’s Andrea Koppel: “Democrats are playing hardball, and they are saying there is absolutely no reason for compromise, and they’re not allowing any debate on the floor on amendments.” (CNN’s “Lou Dobbs Tonight,” 4/4/06)

Dems are playing a spoiling game. They don’t have enough votes to do anything positive, but they have enough to stop the Republicans from doing anything.

After they crap all over the cake and then complain that Republicans are in charge and should be able to do something to stop them.

Sort of like when your spouse refuses to agree to any of your options or make any suggestions of his/her own and then complains that you can’t come up with anything.

Posted by: Jack at April 10, 2006 2:44 PM
Comment #139604

Jack,

While I agree that the dems are acting like spoiled children (they have been for 6 years now) I still think that the republican SHOULD have been able to counter all of their maneuvers. Just like the Judges and Social Security, they are just ineffective even WITH the majority on their side. It really doesn’t look good for them and people are going to ask why they should continue to have the majority if they can’t do anything with it.

Posted by: Rhinehold at April 10, 2006 2:57 PM
Comment #139606

I dunno. I didn’t see all of it, but I watched a fair amount of the committee and the floor work on the immigration bill.

From what I did see, the amendments that the Republicans were proposing on the floor(some of them), instead of ironing out details, would have significantly changed the tone and intent of the original (as amended in committee) bill.

I could certainly be wrong, but that was the information I got from what I was able to see.

Posted by: womanmarine at April 10, 2006 3:06 PM
Comment #139621

Womanmarine,
That’s what I’ve seen too. My OK senator wanted an amendment making English the official US language, and I’ve seen two others that would basically make this bill the same as the house bill. It seems like the Democrats were just trying to save the bipartisan, compromise bill from being rendered irrelevant by massive amendments.

Posted by: Brian Poole at April 10, 2006 3:56 PM
Comment #139622

Rhinehold-

I agree completely on your assessment. Just as the Democrats are a terrible minority party, the Republican seem to be inept at being the majority.

Posted by: George in SC at April 10, 2006 3:57 PM
Comment #139627

Just a thought. Would that many people be so upset about illegal aliens if they were white Irish, white English, white whatever and not brown Mexicans. Is it their skin color or native tongue that makes so many angry? Unless you are Native American or have all your ancestors born in this country before it was a country, then try to remember why your ancestors came here. If you do not know they find out.

Posted by: C.T. Rich at April 10, 2006 4:06 PM
Comment #139628

C.T.Rich:

Those racial issues have been addressed many times. For myself, color or race has no bearing at all. One of the problems is that they are the most visible right now, and perhaps the majority of the problem because of the ease of their form of entry.

Please don’t start the race crap, it just isn’t true.

Posted by: womanmarine at April 10, 2006 4:10 PM
Comment #139632

This is disappointing, but not surprising.
And, it’s not important enough to stick around to work on. Off to vacation they (congress) all go.

Since I fear nothing will ever be done, I would have been thrilled with any reform.

But, it won’t surprise me if this is debated (with no reform ever passed) all the way up to November elections, and then quickly forgotten soon after the election, and ignored until the next election in 2008, in which case the problem will have had two more years to grow even worse.

I don’t harbor hatred for illegal aliens that merely come here looking for jobs.

I unhappy with irresponsible politicians that can vote themselves a raise and cu$hy perk$ in a heart-beat, but can’t pass any badly-needed, common-sense, no-brainer reforms, no matter how many Americans already agree upon the solution.

Look at this mess caused by the irresponsibility of government to do anything:
The federal government created the problem by:
(1) forcing states to provide education to illegal aliens;
(2) forcing states to provide welfare to illegal aliens;
(3) forcing states to let captured illegal aliens loose.
(4) prohibiting hospitals from reporting illegal aliens;
(5) ignoring porous borders;
(6) calling the Minute Men vigilantes;
(7) failing to enforce existing immigration laws and prosecuting those that illegal employee illegal aliens;
_________________________________________
Stop Repeat Offenders.
Don’t Re-Elect Them !
_________________________________________

Posted by: d.a.n at April 10, 2006 4:23 PM
Comment #139635

Nice play on the race card C.T.. Shows how ignorant you must be. This has nothing to do with race. Just like most dumb people around, you simply an issue with a controversial and charged word to deflect from the real issue. It is not about race, it is about Mexico’s continual abuse of our idiotic lack of border control. It is about the millions of dollars sent over the border each year. It is about the millions in taxes and benifits that we must pay for. It is about national security (which has little to do with Mexicans and everything to do with our border with them) and it also has a lot to do with President Fox lying, and breaking promises. Do you know anything about the water “rights” given to Mexico and their subsequent abuse of the agreement and our governments inability to enforce our own treaty? I didn’t think so. Please educate yourself before speaking so stupidly. We are talking about ILLEGAL immigration, white, black, brown, christian, muslim, jewish, whatever. IT IS ALL ILLEGAL!!!!!!!! Why are we so stupid to watch people who are loyal to other governments protest their ILLEGAL status in our country waving MEXICO’S flag!!!!!!! Since when is this right? Since when do we get to protest being punished for breaking a law, turn it into a liberal symbol of idiocy and get away with it?

Posted by: phlegm at April 10, 2006 4:28 PM
Comment #139640

Womanmarine & Brian Poole,
Like you I watched almost every minute of the Senate Hearings and the Senate Debate on this issue. And while I will say that the Bill fell servely short in alot of areas, I do believe Americans need to focus on forcing the House of Representatives to reconsider taking their foot off the mark that they made.

For if they want to pass a Bill that will allow for those who help the Illegal Immigrants in American to become a Felony than Every American Citizen is guilty of the crime. And considering a felony takes away your Right to Vote than the argument of Freedom is over. Not bad considering the public argument can be made that Every American has assisted in their staying in the Country in one form or another.

No, Common Sense should focus this political debate toward the issues not the fear of Race or Cost associated with putting America back on the track of being Right by Law especially from a Leadership that states in their political stance that “The Law” is part of their Principles.

Posted by: Henry Schlatman at April 10, 2006 4:48 PM
Comment #139645

The Reps are playing the game masterly. They should. They have plenty of experience useing race to devide Americans. This way they do not have top change a system that allows employers to take advantage of workers and at the same time they can be the party that wants to get tough and send those dirty,rotten,criminal greaser,spics back to africa or where ever.

PS. Anyone that starts a post by saying they are not a racist is.

Posted by: BillS at April 10, 2006 5:06 PM
Comment #139646

AP,
The Republicans missed an excellent opportunity to keep business out of the mix; however, given the social movement that it has caused has once again sparked fear into the Market. Now, can the Democratic Leadership come up with a plan that will show a better way to travel? If not, than maybe VOIDing Washington is in the Inherent Best Interest of “We the People.” Because to create an economic plan that will see even the Minimum Wage Earner American Citizen become Economically Viable and Financially Independent over the next 40 years is as easy as 20/7/40. The question is can the Democrats amd/or Republicans stand up to their party?

Posted by: Henry Schlatman at April 10, 2006 5:10 PM
Comment #139656
PS. Anyone that starts a post by saying they are not a racist is.

A sweeping statement that will make you wrong as often as it will make you right. Who, specifically were you referring to?

Posted by: womanmarine at April 10, 2006 5:44 PM
Comment #139681

Lol, amd I a racist too? Wondeful, I wonder what my inlaws would say!

You got to love people who use the same generalizations and assignment of thought that they are suppose to be putting down just in order to call others racist…

Posted by: Rhinehold at April 10, 2006 6:43 PM
Comment #139682

lets focus on completely securing our borders—including ports and air travel—first—I don’t know if this is even possible, given the funding and other bureaucratic shackling.

Posted by: onlyif at April 10, 2006 6:45 PM
Comment #139695

Honey P wrote:


No party has a backbone on this issue.
I am not a racist but we can not afford
the price tag illegals create.

Then BillS responded …


BillS wrote:
PS. Anyone that starts a post by saying they are not a racist is.

Now, that logic is hard to argue with, don’t ya’ think ! DOH !

… and then BillS continued to say …


The Reps are playing the game masterly. They should. They have plenty of experience useing race to devide Americans. This way they do not have top change a system that allows employers to take advantage of workers and at the same time they can be the party that wants to get tough and send those dirty, rotten, criminal greaser, spics back to africa or where ever.

Hmmmmm. And BillS calls “Honey P” a racist ?

But, ya know, this makes sense. BillS is the same person that says his district does not send irresponsible incumbents to D.C., but BillS’s Representative, Lynn Woolsey (D-CA) On 2-DEC-2003 abused the power of her office and wrote a letter (on U.S. Representative letterhead) on behalf of rapist, Stewart Pearson, the son of an Lynn Woolsey’s office aide. It did not matter to Lynn Woolsey that Stewart Pearson pled guilty to raping Tina Phan (age 17 at the time), and used a rag soaked in toilet bowl cleanser and Ajax to smothered Tina Phan with it. Trying to fight off the effects of the chemicals of the rag and the stronger knife wielding Pearson, she was eventually overpowered. In the letter, Lynn Woolsey, asked the judge to consider mitigating cirumstances and show leniency. Fortunately, the judge ignored Lynn Woolsey, and sentenced Pearson to eight years in prison, after Pearson cut a deal that dropped the other charges, including assault and sodomy.

When the media questioned Lynn Woolsey about her abuse of power, Lynn Woolsey apologized. BillS said Lynn Woolsey’s apology was good enough for him.

Now BillS is calling people here racist, while making racial slurs, and totally ignoring the voting record of his own state Representative, Lynn Woolsey:
[] Lynn Woolsey Voted NO on reporting illegal aliens who receive hospital treatment. (May 2004)
[] Voted YES on extending Immigrant Residency rules. (May 2001)
[] Voted YES on more immigrant visas for skilled workers. (Sep 1998)
[] Rated 0% by FAIR, indicating a voting record loosening immigration. (Dec 2003)

So, BillS,
What are you upset about?
Is Lynn Woolsey voting as you prefer?
Do you prefer immigration reform or not?
Your state representative, Lynn Woolsey, supports illegal aliens, as evidenced by her voting record.
Republicans voted no on amendments to HR4437.
Do you want amnesty for illegal aliens?
Do you want any immigration reform?
If you want immigration reform, do you want the borders secured and employers of illegal aliens prosecuted?
Do you want the border secured?
If we let the borders remain wide open, should employers pay illegal aliens at least minimum wage, or be allowed to pay them subminimum wage? Either way, you will see the massive illegal immigration turn into total chaos.

The problem with the amendments are they wanted what amounts to amnesty, because illegal aliens would still remain and be allowed to continue to work and live here, and there’s nothing that will ensure they pay their fair share of taxes to fund their use of our schools, healthcare, and welfare. Unless the borders are secured, that is one huge invitation to another 12 million illegal aliens.

29% of all state and federal prisons are illegal aliens.
32% of illegal aliens are on welfare.

So, the American dream for some is more than just looking for work. For many, it is crime and welfare.

The problem is no mystery. It is what always occurs whenever there is massive, uncontrolled illegal immigration. We are importing poverty and teaching immigrants to milk our welfare system. The result is chaos, societal disorder, increased crime rates, resentment, and sometimes, war.

And crime is only part of problem:


  • increased crime rates;

  • burden on education systems;

  • burden on healthcare systems;

  • burden on hospital systems;

  • burden on welfare systems; 32% of illegal aliens are on welfare (Jan-2004);

  • burden on Social Security system;

  • burden on Medicaid system;

  • burden on border patrol systems; ever increasing numbers are needed;

  • burden on insurance systems; illegal aliens can/will not pay for damages they cause;

  • burden on law enforcement systems; costing California billions per year;

  • burden on prison systems; 29% of prisoners in state and federal prisons are illegal aliens (Sep-2004);

  • burden on voting systems; voter fraud with fake ID;

Stop making excuses for illegal aliens.
You may think you are being kind an benevolent, but U.S. citizens are suffering due to the chaos and societal disorder being created by massive, uncontrolled immigration. And, unless you have been to some border states, you probably have no idea how serious the problem is.

onlyif,
Yes, the borders must be secured.

The problem here is Democrats want votes and Republicans want cheap labor, Americans want illegal immigration stopped, so nothing happens.

Americans will not hold their FOR SALE politicians accountable. Heck, voters keep votin’ for them, like BillS, no matter how corrupt their representatives are.

Then you’ve got those that want to play the race card.
The illegal alien supporters don’t have a lot of positives to help their case, so they say stuff like:
(1) we are all immigrants;
(2) you are a racist;
(3) you are using color and nationality;
(4) the U.S. would collapse without them (a total myth);
(5) they are more law abiding (another myth; 29% of our all prisoners are illegal aliens); nevermind that just being here, driving without a drivers license and auto insurance is a crime;

Never mind that:
[] 95% of 1,200 warrants for homicide in Los Angeles are for illegal aliens. 66% of 17,000 fugitive felony warrants are for illegal aliens.
[] John Mullaly a former NYPD homicide detective, states 70% of the drug dealers and other criminals in Manhattan’s Washington Heights are were illegal aliens.
[] According to statistics by the Salt Lake City Police Department (and verified by an independent study), 80% of all drug crimes in the City are committed by illegal aliens. In Salt Lake County, the equivalent number is 50%. That’s why Congressman Cannon is on the Immigration Subcommittee of the House Judiciary Committee. He is working to insure that interior states, like Utah, are not overlooked in the war on illegal immigration.
[] In 2001, 87% of deportable aliens who received run letters disappeared, a number that was even higher-94 percent-if they were from terror-sponsoring countries.
[] an average of 2,000 illegal aliens streaming across our borders daily. One illegal alien in Santa Barbara, California infected 56 other people
with tuberculosis as reported on April 24, 2004, by the Santa Barbara
Press-News, “Anatomy of an Outbreak” .
[] PHOENIX Television and radio stations began running ads in the Valley last week, paid for by the Coalition United to Secure America, attributing the 45% increase in homicides and 41% increase in home invasions to illegal aliens. Phoenix Police Department reports confirm those figures and Sgt. Tony Morales believes there is no doubt that the statistics are tied to illegal aliens. However, news reports about the ads have brought out comments from Rep. Steve Gallardo, District 13, who was quick to claim the ads racist (yep, anyone against illegal immigration is always a racist) … more …
[] 12/31/2002 - Six-month figures revealed a 3.3 percent increase in violent crime in California, including a 16 percent rise in homicides, over the same span in 2001.
[] February 06,2006 - The Monitor - According to the Department of Justice Bureau of Justice Assistance, more than a quarter of the approximately 400,000 days spent in the Hidalgo County Jail during the course of the 365-day period belonged to criminal illegal aliens convicted with at least one felony or two misdemeanors. (Days spent in jail during the pre-trial period were counted only if the criminal illegal alien was convicted of the crime.) The Hidalgo County Jail held 3,335 eligible criminal illegal alien inmates for the fiscal year 2005 reporting period, up from 3,136 criminal illegal alien inmates in 2004. These numbers have been confirmed through the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement vetting process, which runs inmate records through a series of databases to verify accuracy. The Hidalgo County jail only has approximately 1,200 beds. Not only do thousands of criminal illegal aliens crowd the jail, but many make repeat appearances.

So, where is the compassion for the hundreds of people murdered by illegal aliens? One person is murdered by an illegal alien every 86 hours. Wake up, and, at the very least, secure the borders, prosecute those that illegal employ illegal aliens, and deport all criminaal illegal aliens now.

Unfortunately, our bought-and-paid-for, FOR-SALE government will never pass any reforms until voters stop re-electing irresponsible incumbents.

_________________________________________
Stop Repeat Offenders.
Don’t Re-Elect Them !
_________________________________________

Posted by: d.a.n at April 10, 2006 7:34 PM
Comment #139698

Quit trying to blame republicans and or democrats. This is a bill that affects us all and should transend party lines. Its simple. Either you want the hispandemic that is growing daily to continue, or you want it stopped. I dont care what party I vote for as long as the law of the land will be adheared too. Which means we export the wetbacks and keep them at home untill they satisfy the requirements to become citizens. If your senator or congressman does not vote for the above remove him and vote in someone who will.

Posted by: JC at April 10, 2006 7:54 PM
Comment #139708

phlegm and d.a.n. - excellent posts - anyone know of any “close our borders and deport the felons” rallies being organized? Maybe if the actual CITIZENS of this country rallied, something would be done.

Posted by: Lisa C. at April 10, 2006 9:00 PM
Comment #139710

d.a.n.
I do hope you are also spouting your get rid of all what you happen to define as irresponsible incumbants on Republican blogs also or is this just a not so clever ploy to split Democrats?
As for my congresswoman,yes I do regard her as responsible. So do most of her constituents. California is a bordor state,by the way.I am also proud of her for not jumping on the immigant bashing band wagon to get votes.
You condemn her for not voting to make healthcare workers report people without documents, in effect turning them into policemen. The result if the law passed would have been people going untreated for deseases,includeing TB, and spreading them in the general population.So you could have had the best of both,CRUEL and STUPID.
We hear the same blind crap about drivers licenses. People are apalled at the idea and then two sentenses later they are complaining about THEM driving without insurance. You can not get insuarence without a license.DUH.
The other points you made concerning Lynns immigration stand all concerned LEGAL immigrants. Do you hate all immigrants or just “illegal” ones? Or just brown ones?
You mentioned that someone is murdered by an “illegal” immigrant every 86 hours. So you would prefer they were murdered by a US citizen? Maybe we could discuss gun control now?


…Now I’m liberal,to a degree. I want everyone to be free…but if you think I am gonna let one of them move next door or marry my daughter you got another think commin…


B. Dylan

Posted by: BillS at April 10, 2006 9:16 PM
Comment #139725
No party has a backbone on this issue. I am not a racist but we can not afford the price tag illegals create. FIRST WE MUST CONTROL THE FLOW. THEN WE MUST CHARGE THEM FOR THERE SHARE OF THE AMERICAN DREAM.

Democrats voted for immigration reform, Republicans voted against it. Which side doesn’t have backbone?

I don’t know the particulars of the proposed amendments so I can’t discuss that, but any analysis that doesn’t recognize the Republicans’ claims…

Those Republican amendments were all aimed at gutting a compromise bill that was already agreed upon. It would have looked like the ineffective House version that only deals with the border but does nothing about the 12 million illegals already here. Republicans should have had the guts to vote for the compromise bill that they themselves wrote.

As if getting rid of the Republicans will magically get rid of all our problems.

In this particular case, getting rid of Republicans would have given us tough immigration reform that stopped them at the borders and gave the 12 million already here the incentive to come out of the woodwork and pay back taxes.

Republicans are incapable of compromise. For them, it’s all or nothing. On immigration reform, they gave America nothing.

Posted by: American Pundit at April 10, 2006 10:31 PM
Comment #139726
lets focus on completely securing our borders — including ports and air travel — first — I don’t know if this is even possible, given the funding and other bureaucratic shackling.

We can — and should — do both at the same time. That’s what the Senate bill would have done, but Republicans couldn’t decide where they stand on the issue, so they killed it.

Posted by: American Pundit at April 10, 2006 10:38 PM
Comment #139732

“Nice play on the race card C.T.. Shows how ignorant you must be.”

Well Phlegm,

Then the people at The Southern Poverty Law Center are ignorant too. Here’s a brief quote from one of their articles relating to CNN’s Lou Dobbs:

“But there’s one thing Lou Dobbs won’t do. No matter what others report about the movement, Dobbs has failed to present mounting and persistent evidence of anti-Hispanic racism in anti-immigration groups and citizen border patrols.”

http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?aid=589

IMO this is like a ticking time bomb and I fear the outcome if “cooler heads” do not manage to prevail.

KansasDem
PS: You might do well to remember one simple Watchblog rule: attack the message, not the messenger.

Posted by: KansasDem at April 10, 2006 11:01 PM
Comment #139739

Woman marine,
Declaring something non racial does not make it so. I would say that over half of the people I have spoke to about illegals have denied that race was a factor. However, they will complain about so many spanish speaking people here in Wichita. I still believe that race is part of the fanatics views. My paternal great grandparents came from Germany years before W.W. 1. They came for a better life for their future children and themselves. At that time the Irish were the unclean, now it is Mexicans.

Posted by: C.T. Rich at April 10, 2006 11:24 PM
Comment #139752

BillS,
I don’t know about you, but I for one pay a hefty price to legally own and drive my vehicles. Yes the American Dream is to have EVERYONE make a fair wage and a good living. There are those of us like me who are of native american heritage, who can trace ourselves back to when the indians were the first ones here. But most of us have more nationalities than that in our heritage, and most came to this country the legal way. I for one am sick and tired of paying for someone else to be here that did not do it that way. We pay more for taxes, they pay none. We pay for them to have health care, they go to the dr or hospital and do not have the means to even pay a little at a time for the bill. Which means that the hospitals have to charge the rest of us even more to make up for the loss. We pay for registration, driver license fees, and car insurance, they don’t. I have to pay for insurance to cover me if I am hit by someone who is uninsured or underinsured, they pay for nothing. If they hit me, and I’m seriously injured or killed, they can’t pay my bills or my funeral expenses, my company has to pay it. Don’t get me wrong if someone comes into this country and does it the right way, more power to them. Go for it. Make your money, pay for yourself and your family the same way everyone else has to do. Don’t undercut me and everyone else trying to make a fair living for our families by taking a job at less than the minimum wage. Companies should be banned from allowing that to happen just to make a few dollars more. My parents and grandparents always said charity begins at home, meaning we have to take care of us first and the rest later. Just like the little boy from Iraq, getting free medical care, surgery, drs and everything just because he was in the wrong place at the wrong time. We have people here that need help and I don’t see them stepping up to help them. All they are doing there is trying to make us look better, only problem with that is if we weren’t there this wouldn’t have happened. I don’t see any other country stepping up and saying they would pay for his care.

Posted by: Sherri at April 10, 2006 11:50 PM
Comment #139753

C.T.Rich: so it doesn’t. But some folks who do say it really do mean it. I have nothing against immigrants of any stripe that are here legally. I am just as upset by all the chinese that are running around illegally because when the US tried to send them back, China wouldn’t take them.

Just because we have been racist in the past as a nation, against the Irish, the Japanese, etc, I can always hope we have learned something as a society.

Like I said, most of the discussion is centered on the Mexicans and other South Americans because they are the most visible, and it’s easier for them to get into the country. That’s not a racist position.

You don’t get any dialogue by making a broad sweeping statement like you did.

Posted by: womanmarine at April 10, 2006 11:52 PM
Comment #139781
Sherri wrote: We pay more for taxes, they pay none. We pay for them to have health care, they go to the dr or hospital and do not have the means to even pay a little at a time for the bill. Which means that the hospitals have to charge the rest of us even more to make up for the loss. We pay for registration, driver license fees, and car insurance, they don’t. I have to pay for insurance to cover me if I am hit by someone who is uninsured or underinsured, they pay for nothing. If they hit me, and I’m seriously injured or killed, they can’t pay my bills or my funeral expenses, my company has to pay it.

Sherri, Thank you.
It is refreshing to see someone with a spine.
And, don’t waste your time tryin’ to reason with BillS.

_________________________________________

BillS/B Dylan, wrote:
d.a.n.
I do hope you are also spouting your get rid of all what you happen to define as irresponsible incumbants on Republican blogs also or is this just a not so clever ploy to split Democrats?

BillS,
You haven’t been paying much attention have you.
I’m not even remotely Republican, Democrat, or anything else.
Parties are neither the problem or the solution.

As for my congresswoman, yes I do regard her as responsible. So do most of her constituents.
Which is part of the problem. If you like Lynn Woolsey who votes for illegal aliens, and writes letters of leniency for rapists (like Stewart Pearson), then you’ve told us quite a bit about yourself. Now we understand.
California is a bordor state, by the way.
No kidding. That’s quite a revelation. I’m in Texas. Guess what. It’s a border state too!
I am also proud of her [Rep. Lynn Woolsey] for not jumping on the immigant bashing band wagon to get votes.
Good for you. Ofcourse Lynn Woolsey doesn’t want immigration reform. She wants votes. Democrats want votes and Republicans want cheap labor. American want immigration reform, but they’re too lazy to hold their corrupt politicians accountable.
You condemn her for not voting to make healthcare workers report people without documents, in effect turning them into policemen.
Yep, I certainly do. Illegal aliens have broken our laws. This country is not for the public use of the rest of the world, no more than your home is for the public use of illegal aliens. It was you, BillS, that even said you don’t want “one of them move next door or marry my daughter you got another think coming”. So which is it BillS ? For someone who likes to call other people racist, that sounds pretty damn racist to me?
The result if the law passed would have been people going untreated for deseases,includeing TB, and spreading them in the general population.So you could have had the best of both, CRUEL and STUPID.
Good try, but that is total nonsense. They can be treated first, and then deported. Another crisis prevents a solid education for American children and terrifies parents across the country. 12 million illegal aliens (Source: Time Magazine, September 2004) they have crossed our borders without a health screening. Their children crossed with them. In the past five years, over 16,000 new cases of tuberculosis have crossed over from Mexico. It,s called multi-drug resistant myco-bacterium TB and it kills two million people worldwide annually. Last fall a year ago, 30 kids tested positive along with four teachers in a small town north of Detroit, Michigan. But if you watch the newspapers, you,ll see new cases of TB popping up like toast all across the country. It is a growing problem (literally) because illegal alien children carry the disease and infect your kids.

Another serious disease carried into our schools is Hepatitis A, and over
100,000 cases have migrated into our country from illegal aliens. The
problem is illegal aliens do not practice the same hygiene and personal sanitation habits we have fostered in our First World country. They often won’t visit health authorities because they don’t want to get caught. If your child sits in a classroom with illegal aliens, your child is at risk and so are you.

But it gets worse. In the past five years, 7,000 new cases of leprosy (Source:
Hansen,s Disease, Lerner, NY Times 2/20/03) have migrated into the USA
from illegal aliens from India, Brazil and the Caribbean. It’s now
endemic to the East Coast for the first time in the history of the United
States. If your child interacts with an illegal alien child carrying
leprosy, your child may come home with a new case of this ancient
disease.

But the worst aspect of this national educational crisis stems from
the fact that millions of these illegals are not absorbing into the
American way of life. They have no intention of speaking English or
learning our ways. They arrogantly wave their non U.S. flags. They are dividing the country, creating a violent and uneducated underclass, creating chaos, a loss of a cohesive language, and our own children are being dumbed down?

What does it all yield? It gives us a frightening harvest of illiterate,
uneducated, antagonistic and non-invested illegal aliens exploding into our
society with no academic skills. Poverty is overflowing into our nation. That’s WHY the Third World suffers what it suffers: lack of an educated citizens. And, it also fosters separation from those who speak English and pursue educational goals versus millions who have babies out of wedlock, no working skills, non-English speaking and an uncanny ability to ride welfare rolls with
unprecedented talent (32% of all illegal aliens are on U.S. welfare), and fill our prisons (29% of all U.S. prisoners are illegal aliens).

We hear the same blind crap about drivers licenses. People are apalled at the idea and then two sentenses later they are complaining about THEM driving without insurance. You can not get insuarence without a license.DUH.
BillS, That’s a stunning bit of circular logic there. Proud of yourself? Do you not see how asinine that statement is?
The other points you made concerning Lynns immigration stand all concerned LEGAL immigrants.
Wrong. Lynn Woolsey voted to pass a law that prevents hospitals from reporting illegal aliens. What’s the point of reporting anyone who is legal ? I’m starting to understand the problem. Your statements reveal someone who does not know what is going on?
Do you hate all immigrants or just “illegal” ones? Or just brown ones?
Oh…here we go again. So, you’re going to bring color and race into it. I could have written your post for you without your participation. I knew it was just a matter of time before you played the race card. Shame on you.
You mentioned that someone is murdered by an “illegal” immigrant every 86 hours. So you would prefer they were murdered by a US citizen? Maybe we could discuss gun control now?
Wow. Would you mind repeating what you just said to victims of violent crimes by illegal aliens? Did it ever occur to you that a crime by an illegal alien is a crime that should have never occurred. Did you know that illegal aliens commit more crime than U.S. citizens? Illegal aliens are 29% of all prisoners in all state, federal, and local jails and prisons. And, those are mostly for serious crimes. Your statement speaks volumes.

BillS, I don’t hate illegal aliens that come here for work only.
However, 29% of all prisoners are illegal aliens, and 32% of all illegal aliens are on welfare. So, the American dream for many isn’t merely to find a job. For millions, it is crime and welfare.

BillS wrote: …someone is murdered by an illegal immigrant every 86 hours. So you would prefer they were murdered by a US citizen?

BillS, that is another stunning display of logic. How revealing.
Your question is truly asinine.

…Now I’m liberal,to a degree. I want everyone to be free…but if you think I am gonna let “one of them” move next door or marry my daughter you got another think commin…
Again, how revealing. And you have the gall to call anyone else racist? BillS, little to you know, but you have painted us a fairly clear picture of yourself. Congratulations.

BillS, And how are you going to stop “one of them” (as you refer to illegal aliens) from moving next door to you?

Especially if you keep voting for the ilk like Lynn Woolsey that are voting to support illegal aliens and selling out American citizens for illegal aliens (and rapists too, like Stewart Pearson).

Posted by: d.a.n at April 11, 2006 2:00 AM
Comment #139782

There is no question that racism is a factor in this crisis. Remember all the Posts in Watchblog before about Whites becoming a minority in the Red Column? This is the truth no one will admit to. Its like the argument people make that the Civil War was about State’s Rights. White Americans fear that their world is changing without them. They fear the unknown.

The Border issue has given these people the excuse they needed to voice what they want without being called racist. Did you notice how so few wanted a wall along the Canadian Border? Al Queda can cross thru Canada more easily than thru Mexico and yet you hear nothing.

I support a wall. I want it in the north and south. We must have a wall.

Posted by: Aldous at April 11, 2006 2:04 AM
Comment #139814

What many seem to miss is the irony of the Mexicans returning to their historical lands and now beginning to outpopulate the gringos. Houston recently launched a new soccer team and proposed to call it the 1836, a reference to the Texas Declaration of Independence and the battle of San Jacinto in which Santa Anna was defeated and captured. The negative reaction in the Hispanic
Texas community resulted in a quick two-step dance to change the name to the Dynamos.

I have yet to hear anyone address our problems with the Canadian and Oklahoma borders…since that is where we have allowed terrorist to enter before. Sure glad it’s not about racism.

It appears America is about to get it’s come uppance for immigrating into Mexico and then declaring that it is the gringos territory. Us work-a-day stiffs don’t really care whose flag flies atop the pole. Just stop peeing on my leg and telling me it’s raining.

Remember the Alamo! John Wayne was there wasn’t he?

Posted by: gergle at April 11, 2006 6:42 AM
Comment #139825

Americans have sold themselves out, and are being crushed by the weight of their laziness and stupidity. Perhaps Americans sold themselves out long ago, and we are merely witnessing the transfer of assets?

Take BillS (above) for instance. Out of one side of his mouth, BillS makes excuses for illegal aliens, and calls other people racists, and supports his Rep. Lynn Woolsey (D-CA) who is also pro-immigration (and pro rapist)), and then says out of the other side of his mouth that:

BillS wrote: Now I’m liberal, to a degree. I want everyone to be free, but if you think I am gonna let “one of them” move next door or marry my daughter you got another think comin’ …

And BillS is not alone. Such stupidity and hypocrisy as revealed by similar statements that permeates the nation. Too many lazily choose what they believe is the compassionate, benevolent position, but refuse to see the harm to their very own U.S. citizens. Bought-and-paid-for incumbent politicians are FOR SALE, and voters keep re-electing them, and sending them billions of dollars in donations (annually) to boot. We have seen the enemy, and it is ourself. Questions anyone ?

No reforms (including immigration reform) are possible until one fundamental change is made first. All voters need to do is the one simple, common-sense, no-brainer, non-partisan, safe, peaceful, inexpensive, and responsible thing voters were supposed to be doing all along:


Vote out (or recall) all irresponsible incumbents, always, every election, until no more irresponsible incumbents exist, and government finally agrees to pass the many badly-needed, common-sense, responsible reforms that incumbents have refused to pass for so many decades.

Aldous,
Yes, we need a fence. And it would not be that difficult. A mere 1% of all 2.6 million in the military, guard, and reservesd could provide 1 border guard every 1218 feet. But a patrolled road along the fence, siesmic sensors (and other various sensors), cameras, helicoptors, and the will to do it would not be that difficult at all. To say it is difficult is a myth.

Without secure borders, deporting criminal illegal aliens is useless. They simply return. For instance, take Jorge Hernandez, aka Jorge Soto, who killed Min Soon Chang, an 18-year-old college freshman, in a terrible head-on wreck while Hernandez was driving drunk. He had been arrested 3 previous times for drunk driving in 3 other states, and he had been deported to Mexico 17 times ! See the folly?

I don’t blame illegal aliens for wanting to come here. Heck, who wouldn’t. 32% of illegal aliens are on welfare. And, even though 29% of prisoners are illegal aliens, costing billions per year, they are often released due to prison overcrowding, and they simply return to commit the same crimes. A GAO-5646R Report indicated that a study group of illegal aliens had an average arrest record of 13 arrests per illegal alien.

Sadly, the attention this serious issue will dissappear soon after the November elections (in which millions of illegal aliens vote too), and nothing (as usual) will ever come of it. Even if a BILL were ever passed, it will not be enforced. Americans will continue to lazily allow themselves to be overrun, and ironically continue to send billions of dollars in donations to corrupt incumbent politicians that continue to sell us out. This problem is our own fault, and blaming the illegal aliens is truly placing the real blame in the wrong place. The blame lies mostly with too many U.S. citizens (voters) that keep ignoring our many problems and empowering (i.e. re-electing) the very same corrupt incumbent politicians that sell us out. How utterly stupid is that?

_________________________________________
Stop Repeat Offenders.
Don’t Re-Elect Them !
_________________________________________

Posted by: d.a.n at April 11, 2006 9:21 AM
Comment #139841

d.a.n.
That was tongue in cheek B.Dylan quote to accent a common form of liberal hypocrasy. I am amazed you took it literally.
People without papers will not seek treatment if hospitals will turn them in Duh.

To others
I believe d.a.n. is acting to try to suck off Democratic votes. Do not fall for it. Any sensible reform will only come if we hold together.Remember if you do honest work for a living your needs are more aligned with an immigrant worker than they are with a CEO.

Posted by: BillS at April 11, 2006 11:21 AM
Comment #139844

d.a.n.

I don’t see how an undocumented immigrant could vote or apply for public assistance. Every time I vote I must present identification. When I moved a few years ago the process of voter registration required three seperate forms of ID.

I would think that some documentation would also be required to apply for public assistance. I did get Medicaid for three months when my COBRA benefits ended and I was not yet eligible for Medicare. I remember having to dig up a lot of documentation.

You know I have great concerns about the humanitarian consequences of our attitudes and actions toward undocumented immigrants, but actually I’m not opposed to a fence or wall. I do however think we’ll be sorely disappointed with the results. That aside I would ask two dumb questions that I’ve asked before, “at what point would our Border Security Patrol use deadly force against intruders?” “At what point would they render humanitarian assistance?”

KansasDem

Posted by: KansasDem at April 11, 2006 11:38 AM
Comment #139875

KansasDem,
They use fake IDs, fake Social Security cards, fake drivers licenses, and fake proof of Insurance. They register and vote with fake ID. They can go right on the internet and look up Social Security numbers of dead people. It’s easy and the federal government allows it. 32% of illegal aliens are on welfare. And, you are paying for it.

We could secure our borders.
We could enforce laws to prohibit employment of illegal aliens.
We could prohibit illegal aliens from burdening our education, hospital, E.R., law enforcement, insurance, and prison systems.
We can’t deport 12 million illegal aliens, but we could stop the massive, uncontrolled, chaotic in-flow.
We could do all of that, but don’t worry.

KansasDem,
You may be right.
Americans may be too lazy and lack the will to take action for anything…even on their own behalf. Their irresponsible benevolence and compassion is only for illegal aliens, and they have none for their very own U.S. citizens.

Our nation has far too many bleedin’ heart hypocrites, like someone above who votes for ilk like Lynn Woolsey (pro illegal immigration, and pro rapist), and then have the audacity to say (as BillS wrote above):

BillS wrote: Now I’m liberal, to a degree. I want everyone to be free, but if you think I am gonna let “one of them” move next door or marry my daughter you got another think coming.

BillS wrote: d.a.n. That was tongue in cheek B.Dylan quote to accent a common form of liberal hypocrasy. I am amazed you took it literally.
You mean Bob Dylan? How should I know what you mean, sense none of what you say makes any sense?
People without papers will not seek treatment if hospitals will turn them in. Duh.
Good. If they were not here illegally, they wouldn’t get reported, now would they. Once again BillS, the ignorance revealed by your statments know no bounds. You will never get it. Your very own statement above reveals your racism. And you have the gall to call others racist. You are really not worth wastin’ my time on.
BillS wrote: To others, I believe d.a.n. is acting to try to suck off Democratic votes. Do not fall for it. Any sensible reform will only come if we hold together. Remember if you do honest work for a living your needs are more aligned with an immigrant worker than they are with a CEO.
That is completely laughable. Especially since I’m neither Republican or Democrat, or a member of any party, and many will vouch for that. BillS, did it ever occur to you that the CEOs, corporations (e.g. Walmart, Papadeaux, etc.), and businesses are luring cheap labor here for their benefit and profit, and you (the taxpayer) get to pick up the tab for increased burden on education, hospital, E.R., law enforcement, insurance, and prison systtems? BillS, once again, your statement speaks for itself. Yep. You are a piece of work.

But, BillS, please continue if you really enjoy makin’ a damn fool out of yourself.
_________________________________________
Stop Repeat Offenders.
Don’t Re-Elect Them !
_________________________________________

Posted by: d.a.n at April 11, 2006 12:48 PM
Comment #139882

d.a.n.
Ok, List the Republican blogs you have posted this anti-incumbant drege on,and dates if you please.

Posted by: BillS at April 11, 2006 1:08 PM
Comment #139896
d.a.n. Ok, List the Republican blogs you have posted this anti-incumbant drege on,and dates if you please.

BillS,
OK.
First, there is no such word as “drege”, so I’m not sure what you are talking about, but I will assume that is a derogatory term. Perhaps you meant dredge? Also, the word incumbent is spelled with an “e”. Just thought you should know since I know you don’t want to appear any more ignorant than you already have.

Second,
Sure thing.
Once again you demonstrate you lack of research.

Go look in the rose-colored column.
I posted weekly (almost daily) in the Republican, Independent, and Democratic columns.
I criticize and praise Democrats, Independents, and Republicans equally. Why? Because, as stated many, many times, parties are neither the problem or solution. The problem is people corrupt goverment, and voters that keep re-electing them.
So, many here will vouch for that, but all you have to do is look in all the columns and archives stretching back for the last two years.

In fact, I probably criticize Republicans more lately, but that is merely because they currently happen to be the “In Party”.

BillS,
Sorry, once again, you have showed us your ass.
Especially that racist comment you made:

BillS wrote: Now I’m liberal, to a degree. I want everyone to be free, but if you think I am gonna let “one of them” move next door or marry my daughter you got another think coming.

Anything else?

Posted by: d.a.n at April 11, 2006 2:04 PM
Comment #139937

“The immigration bill died because Republicans couldn’t decide whether they were the party of big business which needs cheap immigrant labor, or the party of national security and law & order which needs to close the border and deport all the illegals.”

At least the Republicans are open to change. No matter how long it takes, it shows an openness to changing a party tenet. The Democrats don’t even attempt to reform their thinking. “Uncle Ted” runs the show and nobody asks questions.

Posted by: Mike at April 11, 2006 3:50 PM
Comment #139942

d.a.n.
Ijust asked a question. Why so defensive?
Who is “one of them”?
Also please do not attribute the stanza to me. It is a Bob Dylan quotation from Highway 61. Is that near you?

Posted by: BillS at April 11, 2006 3:55 PM
Comment #139964

What party is “confused” about what issues? The Republicans dont come close to “confused” (as this article contends) as much as the Democrats, not when you have elected officials like Cynthnia McKinney running pass entry points at the Capitol, ignorng warnings by Capitol Police, and then “striking” a Capitol Police Officer (now thats confused and illegal). So what if 12 million illegals have to wait until we SECURE OUR BORDERS. As a citizen, Im not in a hurry.

Posted by: GopRkewl at April 11, 2006 4:54 PM
Comment #139969
BillS wrote: d.a.n. I just asked a question. Why so defensive?
Ummmm. BillS, I think if anyone has any reason to be defensive, it is you. Not me. You are the one using racial phrases.
Who is “one of them” ?
BillS, what’s wrong with you? That is from your own quote. That is what you called illegal aliens.
Also please do not attribute the stanza to me. It is a Bob Dylan quotation from Highway 61.
Wrong. Not even close. Bob Dylan said:
“Now, I’m liberal, but to a degree. I want everybody to be free. But if you think I’ll let Barry Goldwater Move in next door and marry my daughter, You must think I’m crazy !” (by Bob Dylan)

BillS, you wrote:

Now I’m liberal, to a degree.
I want everyone to be free,
but if you think I am gonna let “one of them” move next door, or marry my daughter you got another think coming. (by BillS)

That sounds racist to me, and not that recognizable to Bob Dylan’s “I shall be free No. 10”.
Perhaps it was a Freudian slip?

Posted by: d.a.n at April 11, 2006 5:09 PM
Comment #140004

Is race and hatred an issue regarding immigrants?

Some of Hal Turner’s quotes:

“My thoughts on the Immigration Rallies; the third-world savages parading through our streets and the TRAITORS from our own country who stood with them!”

“I hired an airplane to cruise 1000 feet above THOUSANDS of ILLEGAL ALIENS in Liberty State Park, Jersey City, NJ with the message:
“NO AMNESTY - - BEANERS GO HOME”“

“Millions of ILLEGAL ALIENS took to our streets, demanding to be excused from our laws - and filthy traitorous politicians like Hillary Clinton, Chuck Schumer and Ted Kennedy actually made speeches to……..With just twenty men, I can take care of Clinton, Schumer and Kennedy. With 1360 men, I can REMOVE most of the United States Congress & Senate”

“BEANER BANNER BURNED!!
MEXICAN FLAG SET AFIRE AT TUCSON MEXICAN CONSULATE
WETBACKS ENRAGED; POWERLESS TO DO ANYTHING.”

OK, Turner’s one of the worst of the worst but there’s more, albeit more subtle:

“What we’ll do is randomly pick one night every week where we will kill whoever crosses the border,” said Brian James, a fill-in talk show host with Phoenix AM radio station KFYI.

A few notable quotes from a gathering of Minuteman volunteers in Cochise County Arizona on April 3rd:

“It should be legal to kill illegals,” said Carl, a 69-year old retired Special Forces veteran who fought in Vietnam and now lives out West. “Just shoot ‘em on sight. That’s my immigration policy recommendation. You break into my country, you die.”

“I agree completely,” Michael said. “You get up there with a rifle and start shooting four or five of them a week, the other four or five thousand behind them are going to think twice about crossing that line.”

“The thing to do would be to drop the bodies just a few hundred feet into the U.S. and just leave them there, with lights on them at night,” he said. “That sends the message ‘No Trespassing,’ in any language.”

Of course Republican Congressman Tom Tancredo heralds the minutemen as “good men who understand we must never surrender our right as citizens to do our patriotic duty and defend our country … and stop this invasion ourselves.”

Yep, we’ve come a long way baby!

KansasDem

Posted by: KansasDem at April 11, 2006 6:59 PM
Comment #140186

that is a terrible plan to keep them out you need better thought out stuff than that. something like that want keep them out. Hey in my personal opinion democrats need to stop put republicans down. maybe some disagreed with what was in the bill who cares remember Kerry he was the flip flop master. anyway you don’t see as many republican headlines saying democrats this democrats that so let up for cryin out loud and yes I am a republican.

Posted by: marie at April 12, 2006 12:18 PM
Comment #140245

I have read or heard virtually every word to be said on the immigration issue except:

How do you plan to enforce any law you pass since you can’t seem to enforce any passed before?

In 1986 sweeping amnesty was granted to illegals. Subsequent laws were meant to tackle the issue and minimize future illegal activity. We are today in worse shape than ever before with the illegal problem. Thousands are pouring in daily. Over 100 have been caught in my area the past week alone. How many got away? Bush might as well have posted signs at the border saying “WELCOME ILLEGALS, ONE AND ALL”. With a footnote that they had better hurt before those nasty legal Americans started raising too much ruckus. After all we do have a president who thinks it’s OK to break a law if he doesn’t agree with it.

In 2000 417 citations were issued to employers for employing illegals. In 2005, 3 (yes, three) citations were issued. Pretty sad, huh? If the government can’t enforce laws on the books currently, why should we think they can follow new laws?

Major problem with new proposals:

Any illegal here more than 5 years gets to stay? Won’t work. How do they prove they’ve been here five years? Talk about the fraudulent documentation market going wild. Ask the employers to verify? Yeah, right. They are so honest in the first place to have reported their hiring of illegals.

Pay back taxes? Now how in the world is anyone going to prove what they owe in back taxes? an impossible task both manpower wise and honesty wise.

Everyone with less than five years illegally here, must go back to the border and recross? Oh, please, GIVE ME A BREAK. Talk about crawling into the woodwork and being shadow people!!! Possibility of anyone going to the border and applying to recross? Slim to absolutely none.

Those with less than two years have to go home. The most ludicrous proposition of all. Enforce that one, foolish politicians.

Try again, senators. You don’t have a clue to resolution of the problem. And for those of you who think the democrats are not guilty in the “having illegal employees” arena, guess again. I believe I could safely wager virtually every senator, every rich person, has at least one, probably more, illegal on their payroll or have a close family member who does have. Rich is rich regardless of the party affiliation. Their lifestyles are interchangeable.

Posted by: Kathy at April 12, 2006 3:55 PM
Comment #140270
phlegm and d.a.n. - excellent posts - anyone know of any “close our borders and deport the felons” rallies being organized? Maybe if the actual CITIZENS of this country rallied, something would be done.

Lisa C.,
Thank you. That’s a good question.
I was wondering why there have been none.
Perhaps it is a recipe for trouble, and violence.
I believe the best thing to do is try to education other voters, understand all the issues, never turn it into a race issue (it is not about race or ethnicity), and support existing organizations that want to peacefully force government to address the issue.

I donate to and support the TheAmericanResistance.
D.A. King runs it.
He is not a racist.
You can see his site here

D.A. King was on CNN last night, and I was happy to see him stick to the facts, and keep race out of it.

If you are interested in trying to educate voters and hold politicians accountable, please see: Vote Out Incumbents for Democracy

David R. Remer runs it, and from everything I know, I believe him to be an honest and honorable person. If I didn’t, I would not be a volunteer member of the VOID organization.

After all, no reforms (not immigration, or any of the many reforms discussed here daily) are possible until one fundamental change is made first. All voters need to do is the one simple, common-sense, no-brainer, non-partisan, safe, peaceful, inexpensive, and responsible thing voters were supposed to be doing all along:

Vote out (or recall) all irresponsible incumbents, always, every election, until no more irresponsible incumbents exist, and government finally agrees to pass the many badly-needed, common-sense, responsible reforms that incumbents have refused to pass for so many decades.

Posted by: d.a.n at April 12, 2006 5:53 PM
Comment #140339


We got bamboozled again by our own politicians!
We asked for borders secure from terrorists. That’s all, a reasonable request that we should not have to demand.
SECURE THE BORDER! That’s it, that’s all. Done.
There is no discussion, no debate, no victims, no favorites.

We ask for secure borders and they give us scapegoats. They had no intentions of solving the problem from the beginning. They just needed the problem so they could wag their peckers at each other, get some camera time, and fight amongst themselves.
Politicians thrive on issues. They don’t care what it is as long as it gets press and they can argue about it. They are pandering to people who can’t even vote. I find it really unconvincing that they have any deep compassion when only a few months ago the same politicians that are addressing the hoards were demanding that employers be hammered for hiring illegals. So I have to believe that they will say or do anything that will get them some face time and is against “the other side” whether the subject is immigration or the war on terror.
The war on terror would have been over if we had not had to fight it on 2 fronts, the battlefield and Washington. But this entry is about immigration and politicians.

Up until now most of us didn’t even know there was a problem with illegals and if we did we were content to just overlook it, everyone was ok. The politicians won this round. They have us fighting amongst ourselves.
Here is the rub; when the Mexican flags came out and the demands started I knew something was wrong. All being fueled by people not even involved, just looking for anarchy. The vast number of people interested in the outcome is too many to count. Every business that uses the illegals, sells to them, provides services and profits from their labor doesn’t want anything to change. The Mexican Government damn sure doesn’t want anything to change, inspite of what he says in front of the camera. He gets the money they send home (all of that out-bound money is another problem of it’s own) and his problem population is now ours. If low income hard jobs was the key to economic strength then wouldn’t every third world rat hole be running circles around us.
The very same arguments were used when slavery was about to end.
“THE UNION WILL FALL APART !”
“THE ECONOMY WILL FAIL!”
“WHO WILL DO THE WORK?”
“WE HAVE TO HAVE THEM!”
Well the rest is history. None of this happened and I don’t see it happening this time if we don’t have illegal labor.
Then maybe our children could develop some character doing hard jobs so they can aspire to better things and move out of that job for the next generation.
What kind of assimilation can we expect from a neighbor who’s first act in the promised land was to break the law?
Now that they have been led “out of the shadows” the American people even the ones that weren’t paying attention are outraged. If we want to get technical there are a few national security issues that should be considered. Foreign nationals attempting to influence U.S. policy comes to mind.
Demand?
DEMAND THIS ^^[@uth f8@#$ (*6^% THEN GET OUT!
You have been a useful rube to many unscrupulous people.
Now we are done with you.

Posted by: R. Paul Gani at April 13, 2006 12:31 AM
Comment #140407
We got bamboozled again by our own politicians!

No doubt about it.
It’s been going on for centuries.
It will continue until voters are sufficiently educated to recognize the problem and implement the solution.

The solution is right there under our own noses.

Posted by: d.a.n at April 13, 2006 10:51 AM
Comment #141869

Like I said, most of the discussion is centered on the Mexicans and other South Americans because they are the most visible, and it’s easier for them to get into the country. That’s not a racist position.

You don’t get any dialogue by making a broad sweeping statement like you did.


Posted by: womanmarine at April 10, 2006 11:52 PM

Mexico is is North America, thats why they are part of NAFTA. Just because its south of the border doesnt make it wrong. And most visible why? Oh thats right, because their skin is a different shade and they talk something else than what you can understand. Canadiens come into this country just as often and you dont complain about it for obvious reasons. Its also easier for them to get in because they are allowed to get in. They are asked to come to work and when their skills are completely used up, the government exclaims that there is a problem.

The problem that most of you seem to have is that you are stuck on the “problem” of how people from Mexico will integrate.

This is the U.S. It is a land of opportunity and equality. But its also a place where people from every nationality are given an opportunity and then wants to shut the door on everyone else.

I’m not much into politics (not since I was about 12 and learned what politics actually intangles) and have become intergrated well enough that my stronger language is English (this coming from a Third generation Hispanic from a border town). I am also fairly light skinned so I get the brunt of both worlds (not “white” and not “Mexican” enough).

To me this is a non-issue because the government will always claim to disagree, tell their party what they want to hear, and then weasle their way out of doing something without getting the public upset. Both sides want to cut down the flow and both want to keep cheap labor. This is always going to be present, so no solution that favors one group is in site and to blame it on the other group is flat out stupid. Both parties suffer from the same problems, they just happen to have different names. We dont actually vote for people that have different ideals, they are the same people just given different animals.

Debate is an important form of public discourse, thats the only reason I’m here (studying you people and how you interact for a paper). But its not very good once you start debating things are not relevant to the topic and arent up for debate (which I did myself during this message).

Thank you.

(And just as an occasional reader, how do you guys know what party you are supporting if you dont indicate it on your post? This would have been helpful during my paper seeing as I was comparing the amount of discussion seen from the other party’s POV’s).

Posted by: Jay at April 20, 2006 12:29 AM
Comment #142267

Jay,

I’m a fan of no party.
I used to be Republican, but now I see, as you said:

Both parties suffer from the same problems, they just happen to have different names. We dont actually vote for people that have different ideals, they are the same people just given different animals.

Parties are neither the problem or the solution.

American voters should not direct their anger at illegal aliens (especially, since many are just looking for jobs).

Voters should be angry with their do-nothing, bought-and-paid-for incumbent politicians that created this problem, then ignored it for decades, and now attempt to pit American voters and illegal aliens against each other.

That is dastardly. Voters should not tolerate it, and should simply vote out all irresponsible incumbent politicians, always, until no more irresponsible incumbents exist, and politicians finally pass badly-needed, common-sense reforms, and finally start doing something that has some net benefit to society.

Posted by: d.a.n at April 21, 2006 11:39 PM
Comment #181604

Take a look at the final bill and you will see why the republicans voted against the bill. Kennedy and other Democrates had added more conditions to the bill even allowing current illegal aliens to stay and get amnesty. What a crock of fools democrates are.

Posted by: The Wolf at September 15, 2006 4:49 PM
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