Democrats & Liberals Archives

Shoot First, Ask Questions Later

Vice President Dick Cheney, otherwise known as the real president of the U.S., went hunting for quail and he shot his fellow Republican teammate. He did not bother to tell his so-called boss, George W. Bush, until the next day and even then forgot to tell him that the guy doing the shooting was Cheney. Shoot first, ask questions later - this is normal procedure at the current Republican Whitehouse. This is the way the administration runs the Iraq War. This is the way the adminstration extracts vengeance from those opposed to the party line.

As far as Cheney is concerned, the shooting incident was just another escapade. Why bother with a guy who has been shot when you have grand affairs of state to worry about? He started a cover-up and then the Whitehouse elaborated on it. They even blamed the victim! Poor guy. I hear the victim is back in intensive care because he had a heart attack. The New York Times gives us the picture:

"The vice president appears to have behaved like a teenager who thinks that if he keeps quiet about the wreck, no one will notice that the family car is missing its right door. The administration's communications department has proved that its skills at actually communicating are so rusty it can't get a minor police-blotter story straight. And the White House, in trying to cover up the cover-up, has once again demonstrated that it would rather look inept than open."

The real president acts like a teenager: shoot first, ask questions later.

Isn't this what Cheney did when he cooked the itelligence books and dragged the U.S. into a war with Iraq? He was positive Iraq had weapons of mass destruction and that it was a threat. He was certain that the war would be won quickly. He assured us that Iraqis in a revitalized Iraq would swoon in the presence of American liberators.

Now people are asking questions. Where are Cheney's answers? Teenagers believe in action, not in answering questions.

When Ambassador Joseph Wilson contradicted George W. Bush by telling us that the Iraqi president did not try to buy nuclear material from Niger in Africa, Cheney was roused to get his revenge. He decided to shoot first and ask questions later. He set in motion the outing of Wilson's wife as an undercover CIA agent. We now hear from Libby that Cheney authorized him to leak classified information.

Now, supposing I were working in Washington and I told a reporter that Plame is an undercover agent, I would probably be arrested and placed in jail faster than anyone could say "treason." Treason is what Cheney has committed. He spends a lot of time calling liberals traitors because they do not agree with his shoot-first-and-ask-questions-later way of doing things. Yet, this teenager is himself a traitor. He thought it more important to get his vengeance than to protect the security of the U.S.

Do you know what Plame was working on? She was working on the Iranian nuclear program. Now we know less than we could have known.

Cheney, the real president of the U.S., shoots first, asks questions later. He feels so powerful, he sometimes does not even bother to ask questions. Treason means nothing to him; it's merely a word to hurl against his political enemies.

Posted by Paul Siegel at February 14, 2006 5:25 PM
Comments
Comment #125074

I am as tickled as the rest
of the country seems to be
about the fact that evan
a hunting trip shows
the incompatance of the
men in charge. But I must
question the fact that while this
story is keeping us intertained.

SAUDI ARABIAN COMPANY IS
BEING HANDED OUR NATIONS PORTS.
The very nation
that gave us 13 of the
9/11 hijackers is now going
to run the ports that all
of the cargo comeing into
or leaving must pass through.

WHY IS THIS NOT A STORY?
WHAT IS HOMELAND SECURITY DOING?
WHO IS GETTING PAYED TO ALLOW THIS?
answer a commission set up by the
president himself?

WHY AM I ASKING WHEN A REPORTER
SHOULD BE TELLING ME?

Posted by: Honey P at February 14, 2006 5:49 PM
Comment #125077

The hate just keeps on coming!If it were you and a friend how would you feel?Move on !There is no difference between you and a friend in an accident and anyone else,no one should treat this as a political event to criticize.The VP is not the only person to have an accident and he will not be the last.MOVE ON,man!

Posted by: RDAVIDC at February 14, 2006 5:59 PM
Comment #125082

Re: MOVE ON,man!
That is exactly what this White House is hoping
we will do. There is a cover-up going on here.

Posted by: John PS at February 14, 2006 6:08 PM
Comment #125094

“SAUDI ARABIAN COMPANY IS
BEING HANDED OUR NATIONS PORTS.
The very nation
that gave us 13 of the
9/11 hijackers is now going
to run the ports that all
of the cargo comeing into
or leaving must pass through.

Posted by: Honey P at February 14, 2006 05:49 PM”

Honey P,
Where have you read this or heard this?
I can find no reference to it anywhere.

KansasDem

Posted by: KansasDem at February 14, 2006 6:32 PM
Comment #125096

RDAVIDC,

“The VP is not the only person to have an accident and he will not be the last.MOVE ON,man!”

But he is the Vice-President, and this brings his judgement into question.

Posted by: Rocky at February 14, 2006 6:34 PM
Comment #125099

Anyone who has ever been hunting and knows the rules would know better.

(1) You’re not supposed to shoot at quail until they are considerably above the horizon (e.g. 10 O’Clock). That is so you don’t shoot your hunting buddies or your hunting dog(s). Also, shot gun pellets spread considerably as the distance increases from the muzzle.

(2) You are never supposed to pull the trigger until you know exactly what you’re shooting at.

The covey of quail Cheney was shooting was obviously below 10 O’Clock. That’s the only way Harry Whittington (an attorney) could have been shot. That violates rule # 1 (above). Whittington was behind Cheney when a covey flushed. Cheney turned, was tracking a quail and never saw Whittington in the line of sight when Cheney pulled the trigger. That violates rule # 2. Whittington now has several a dozen pellets inside him that surgeons do not plan to remove surgically. Now, Whittington will have to get one of those special ID cards so he can get through the metal detectors at the airport. Whittington sent word through a hospital official that he would have no comment on the incident out of respect for Cheney.

All I can say, that is one hellava good friend.

But, I doubt Whittington will be goin’ huntin’ with Cheney again any time soon. Would you?

Posted by: d.a.n at February 14, 2006 6:37 PM
Comment #125100

Kansasdem,

It is a United Emerites company that is trying to buy the Brittish company that has the contract now.

Posted by: Rocky at February 14, 2006 6:37 PM
Comment #125101

Rdavidc,
At first everyone was led to believe this Whittington fellow would be ok, so there was a lot of joking around. Unfortunately, he seems to be in much more serious condition than anyone thought. We were misled. If the guy dies within the next year due to the wound, Cheney could be charged with a very serious crime.

Posted by: phx8 at February 14, 2006 6:37 PM
Comment #125102

“The hate just keeps on coming!If it were you and a friend how would you feel?Move on !There is no difference between you and a friend in an accident and anyone else,no one should treat this as a political event to criticize.The VP is not the only person to have an accident and he will not be the last.MOVE ON,man!

Posted by: RDAVIDC at February 14, 2006 05:59 PM”

RDAVIDC,
I totally agree with you on this one, especially given the now serious nature of the injury. When it was “a minor injury” I say, “give Cheney hell” but this is now morbid.

It’s like the “Keg Kennedy” crap. Not at all helpful to anyone and possibly harmful, at least emotionally, to the survivor and his family.

KansasDem

Posted by: KansasDem at February 14, 2006 6:38 PM
Comment #125103

I’ve had enough of the outrage and indignation that the DC press is displaying because they were not kept informed yet again.

If they would try searching for the truth themselves instead of just waiting for the White House dole it out to them, they wouldn’t have been scooped by a little newspaper in the first place.

Posted by: Michael at February 14, 2006 6:39 PM
Comment #125104

“It is a United Emerites company that is trying to buy the Brittish company that has the contract now.

Posted by: Rocky at February 14, 2006 06:37 PM”

Thanks Rocky. You would think that would be front page print.

KansasDem


Posted by: KansasDem at February 14, 2006 6:44 PM
Comment #125107

Cover up? This is a hunting accident. Such things happen. Both hunters violated hunting etiquette. The other guy broke the line and Cheney shot too soon, but such things do happen. It is like failing to yield right of way, I bet every one of you who drives has done that and sometimes it has deadly consequences. Before you say it is not the same thing, consider that more people have died in automobile accidents than in all our nation’s wars. Mistakes happen.

I will tell you something about journalists that they don’t seem to understand. They don’t have the right to know or the right to be told. They have the right to ask and to try to find out. The same goes for the public in a situation like this.

Posted by: Jack at February 14, 2006 6:46 PM
Comment #125116

Jack:

If the Vice President of the United States of America were involved in a Traffic Accident, we would react the same way. This is a question of competence and judgement!!! Anybody STUPID enough to not yield Right of Way or shoot blindly into tall grass deserves to be questioned on whether he deserves to lead the American People!!!

Posted by: Aldous at February 14, 2006 7:25 PM
Comment #125119

AMERICAN PORT SOON TO BE TURNED OVER
TO SAUDI ARABIAN COMPANY C&O

as reported by Lou Dobbs on his show
feb- 13th and mentioned by him on the situation room feb- 14th.

WHEN YOU CAN NOT TELL IF A REPORTER
IS A DEM OR A REPUB HE IS A GOOD REPORTER.

Posted by: Honey P at February 14, 2006 7:30 PM
Comment #125125

Never exceed the speed limit or made an illegal turn, Aldous?

Maybe Dems can impeach him. Oh yeah, they can’t.

Posted by: Jack at February 14, 2006 7:40 PM
Comment #125127

Kansas dem
Saw story re: ports on Lou Dobbs this evening. The country in question is not Saudi Arabia as reported. It is a company in the United Arab Emirate. Not a pleasant thought in any respect. To have any foreign country controlling or overseeing imports is obscene.

Posted by: richard at February 14, 2006 7:41 PM
Comment #125136

richard,

“To have any foreign country controlling or overseeing imports is obscene.”

They are being run by a Brittish company now.

Anyway this discussion is happening over on the red side under the heading “Selling our Ports”.

Posted by: Rocky at February 14, 2006 7:52 PM
Comment #125152

Ah-ha, found it:

Arab firm to oversee 6 U.S. ports:
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/business/3652381.html

A few quotes from the story that I found insightful:

“DP World said it won approval from a secretive U.S. government panel that considers security risks of foreign companies…….”

“The committee, which could have recommended that President Bush block the purchase, includes representatives from the departments of Treasury, Defense, Justice, Commerce, State and Homeland Security.”

“Last month, the White House appointed a senior DP World executive, David C. Sanborn of Virginia, to be the new administrator of the Maritime Administration of the Transportation Department.”

Is there a stench here of secrecy and cronyism?

KansasDem

Posted by: KansasDem at February 14, 2006 8:10 PM
Comment #125171

Why dont you looneys get over it? If you hunt birds long enough you will get peppered now and then. The reason the President wasn’t notified was because he has other problems, like protecting your sorry asses. The most ridiculas part of the whole thing was the ladies gun he was using (28 guage). Although thats probably more gun than you wimps can handle. Impeach him hell, why not have him executed? You crybabies make me laugh.

Posted by: jc at February 14, 2006 8:49 PM
Comment #125186

A story comes to mind about a democrat who unintentionally hurt and then ended up killing an innocent young girl in a brutal drunk driving accident. But, unlike Cheney, he didn’t see to the immediate care of the victim … probably the main reason she ended up dying.

Liberals, yet again, marginalize themselves as extremist by making a national political issue out of a mistake. If they spent as much time devoted to the national security of the nation . . maybe they would have control of the house, or the senate, or the White House.

1st Rule of Understanding: The media is not God. The fact that they didn’t hear about it for “A WHOLE 23 HOURS” (Oh my God, how did the media survive?!) is not crucial no matter how much the media wants to make a big deal about it. This rigamarole over an accident only makes the media and the liberals look like the mis-prioritizing idiots that they are.

Focus on Iran already …or are you all the politically minded, uncaring Americans that so many make both the media and their liberal base out to be?

Posted by: Ken Cooper at February 14, 2006 9:12 PM
Comment #125195

Paul,

You have some substantive problems with your criticism. What you have here is a man surrounded by law enforcement with an ambulance and medical personel standing by. I wonder that you haven’t thought that you are criticizing Cheney for not trying to manage media perceptions.

Posted by: eric simonson at February 14, 2006 9:23 PM
Comment #125207

Americans, follow your instincts. Somethin’ ain’t right with this picture.

Posted by: d.a.n at February 14, 2006 9:47 PM
Comment #125211

Say what you will, but this is an apt metaphor for the “shoot first ask questions later” neocon philosophy. The good news? Next week is national “take a president hunting week”. Keep your spirits up, fellow Democrats, the republicans are self-destructing right before our eyes on SO many different fronts.

Posted by: Steve Miller at February 14, 2006 9:57 PM
Comment #125236

Ken Cooper
I must agree that we should not make a big deal out of an unfortunate accident and wish to urge thoughtful people to let it go. Speaking of letting go, the events you were refering too were 30 years ago.Come on,man.
Oh yeah. We will have control of the House and Senate. The House this cycle and the Senate after the criminals are properly investigated and sacked.

jc
I have hunted birds all my life and never once was anyone I hunted with pepppered. It is just careless. Sometimes people make mistakes and we should move on.

Posted by: BillS at February 14, 2006 11:14 PM
Comment #125237

Ken Cooper:

Was this Democrat a public official? Was he a Vice President of the US? If he is not, kindly do not equate him with Cheney. Any idiot stupid enough to pull the trigger without knowing the target deserves to be questioned.

btw… I can understand now why Republicans need to hunt domestically raised, docile quail instead of the real wild ones. They probably already shot their dogs instead.

Posted by: Aldous at February 14, 2006 11:15 PM
Comment #125239

FYI… That dude Cheney shot has a pellet in his heart that caused a minor heart attack. It is normal for Republicans to brush off manslaughter but the rest of us don’t.

Posted by: Aldous at February 14, 2006 11:16 PM
Comment #125252

JC,

I could almost hear the cockeyed southern drawl with that last post (day-ng wiiimps!).

See here’s what I find insane, they were pen-raised wingless birds it’s amazing they didn’t saw their feet off so these two old coots could get better shots at them. Whittington was wearing an orange vest and cap, do republicans think that pheasants are blind to orange? Who knows? They weren’t going far anyway. Now if they are pen raised there’s no ferralness so Cheney could have probably walked up and put the rifle to the pheasants ear BUT GEE what kind of sport would that be? I mean these are after all wingless pen-raised wild ferral beasts of the woodlands that could waddle away confused in a seconds notice pecking the ground for food. Very wiley them pen-raised critters.

Cheney could have used a slingshot and gotten half of the stupid docile things—what a sportsman that Cheney is!

There’s no cover-up Cheney couldn’t hit the broadside of an aircraft carrier with a rock.

Posted by: Translator at February 15, 2006 12:11 AM
Comment #125253

I believe this was an accident. I also believe Cheney tried to cover it up. It’s just his first reaction to anything that happens I guess.

Is anyone really surprised no one bothered to tell Bush about the shooting? I mean, when has this guy ever known more than a marooned islander about anything that goes on in the world?

Bush on 9/11:
“Who could have known someone would hijack airplanes and fly them into buildings?”

Bush on Katrina:
“Who could have known those levees would break?

Bush on failures in Iraq:
“I’m just giving the generals whatever they ask for. You know, I’m not on the ground. What do I know?”

Bush on torture:
“What torture? We don’t torture. Whatever it is we’re dong, I asked Gonzales and he says it’s ok.”

Bush on Plame:
“Hey, I’d like to know who did it as much as the next guy. I understand there’s an investigation underway….”

Bush on WMDs in Iraq:
“Hey, I was just acting on what they told me. I didn’t know the information was bad.”

I don’t mind him being less informed than an expert or something, but why does Bush always seem to know less than my dog does? Do you think they tell him anything? If they do, I worry for his mental health.

Btw, I heard Cheney didn’t even have a hunting license. Lame. Typical Republican arrogance for the laws they feel don’t apply to them.

Posted by: Max at February 15, 2006 12:12 AM
Comment #125260

Maybe next week Cheney will be going fly fishing in an extra-large wash tub full of trout or something? Maybe shooting legless squirrels in a bucket or deer tied to trees? Or bears already dead he’s quite the outdoorsman you know.

Posted by: Translator at February 15, 2006 12:28 AM
Comment #125273

You can’t be serious. There are plenty of legitimate criticisms of the Bush administration, but it seems like you Dems can’t help but go for the low blow. Be rational. Besides time to prep against your venom, what could the Republicans possibly stand to gain from covering up the incident for several days? It was an accident. Speaking of which, how can you talk about defending privacy (An ideal which I agree with) while demanding instant access to the personal details of this man’s private life? The message this sends is that ruthless partisan hatred is more important than reason and compassion. No doubt the Republicans will be just as fast to chime in with some equally rediculous example of why we should all hate liberals. Ironically this mutual hatred is what keeps the truly corrupt in power. Sometimes I feel like this nation has no soul.

Posted by: Amani at February 15, 2006 1:02 AM
Comment #125276

Max,

But… but… Bush knows all about “My Pet Goat”.

I got his goat right here.

This is typical of the Bush administration. They cannot even have a simple hunting accident without lying and covering up. As usual, they got thier Repulican Robotic Talking Heads out spinning the situation and blaming the victim. He probably did make a mistake, but the last I knew it is the shooter is responsible for the shot. You are supposed to know what you are shooting at. Cheney supposedly uses a 28 gauge - I did not even know that they made anything between a 20 and a 410 - but then I don’t hunt anymore - but to hit a guy with that many pellets with that small of a gun - he must have been pretty close. Twenty Two hours to tell the American people? Yes of coarse he needed to get help for the guy - that means turning to your Secret Service Man, pointing and saying, I got one. Twenty Two hours? Why the lies? Was he drunk? Bush reads “My Pet Goat” when we are under attack - Cheney shoots pet birds - it must just be that compassionate conservatism - they like pets - Cheney likes to kill em. The Robotic heads are out talking about what a good shot and hunter Cheney is. He kills more pet birds than anybody. Is he really a good shot? Or, is he just irresponsible and too fast on the trigger? OR, is he just a psychopath that don’t give a “load of brown fecal matter” and shoots anything that moves? OR, did he need to distract the media from Scotter’s new claim that his boss ordered him to release classified information to the press and the new revelation that key emails have been deliberately deleted from the Whitehouse system? Things that make you say hmm… But we do know that the Bush administration is a bunch of liers. That much we know.

Posted by: Ray G. at February 15, 2006 1:11 AM
Comment #125278

How crappy a shot Cheney is.

Posted by: Translator at February 15, 2006 1:12 AM
Comment #125280

Sorry Amani that was out of context.

“What could the republicans possibly stand to gain by covering the incident up for several days?” How crappy a shot Cheney is.

Okay that’s better.

Posted by: Translator at February 15, 2006 1:16 AM
Comment #125295

I’m sorry, but this post is over the top. Real democrats don’t feel this way. Sorry, but we can’t support you on this one, Paul. You’re out of line.

Posted by: Cole at February 15, 2006 2:58 AM
Comment #125302

Ha.As Leno just pointed out”Oh no.What if all along Bush WAS the smart one!”

Posted by: BillS at February 15, 2006 3:40 AM
Comment #125306

Cole,

Where have you been? The entire democratic party is over the top.

Did you see Al Gore apologizing to Saudi Arabia for the ‘illigimate’ Bush not issuing enough visas to Saudi’s?

Seems strange when you couple that statement with his statement ridiculing Bush for invading Iraq when almost all of the highjackers came from Saudi Arabia. (What does that mean anyway?)

Posted by: esimonson at February 15, 2006 4:02 AM
Comment #125310

Ok I was thinking about this and have a question.

Can Cheney (or anyone for that matter) really be charged with Manslaughter if this guy dies due to an accident? If alcohol or something was involved, I get it… but supposedly it wasn’t.

Just wondering!

Posted by: Kc at February 15, 2006 4:27 AM
Comment #125344

Honey P. is right. So what about a hunting accident? I pray the guy recovers and, yes, Dick Cheney is the VP, but is the THE BIGGEST news story around? Or just the easiest to cover?

Let’s report it and move on. There are alot more important stories to cover.

Posted by: mac6115cd at February 15, 2006 7:16 AM
Comment #125357

Most likely, we would never have found out about this had that ranch owner lady not seen it go down.

Sh__ happens. And it is none of the public’s business anyway seems to be the concensus of the right. A different tune than during the Lewinsky days.

Posted by: Schwamp at February 15, 2006 8:07 AM
Comment #125362

In other news. (Last link is SFW)

Posted by: Joseph Briggs at February 15, 2006 8:29 AM
Comment #125367

Actually, I meant: First link NSFW.

Posted by: Joseph Briggs at February 15, 2006 8:43 AM
Comment #125369

If Cheney had shot the a record setting bird (category, “Largest Docile Clipped Wing Quail”), do you think it would have been reported sooner? Or is the etiquette on that to let the property owner contact the media a day or so later? Or should good reporters have done their job sooner? Just wondering, but I bet the over under on that news release would have been about 10 minutes.

Posted by: Boomer at February 15, 2006 8:49 AM
Comment #125374

One of the rules of hunting is to not take a shot at game unless you know positively where all your hunting buddies are. Another is not to turn and fire behind the line you are hunting him. This guy was not “peppered”, he was shot and at a close enough range for the bb to penetrate several layers of clothing and go into the chest cavity. Cheney got VIP treatment from the cops and the white house and the public was not notified. We have a right to know when of the leaders of our country is involved in an incident. What if the story had gotten out wrong and they said Cheney was the one “peppered”. Why is this still a story? Not because of partisan hatred but because Cheney tried to keep it out of the news. Do you really think there was an investigation. The police probable accepted the story they were given be the secret service. For you that have never heard of 28 gauge, they are used by the shooters who consider them selves to be such good shots that they are no longer challenged by by killing birds with the larger gauges, however , in Cheney’s case he may be using the 28 because the recoil from a manly 12 gauge might hurt his heart.

Posted by: scotty at February 15, 2006 9:01 AM
Comment #125378

Kansas Dem, back to the subject of the UAE, that article did not mention that OBL was meeting with one of their sheiks when the CIA had a good chance to kill him before 9/11, but they were told not to risk it because they might accidentally kill the sheik too.

Posted by: ray ohrealy at February 15, 2006 9:15 AM
Comment #125380

Rove told Cheney to tell Bush to shoot the guy. They then blindfolded the guy and Bush shot him. Then the Secret Service escorted Bush away and Cheney claimed he was the one who did it and it was an accident.
They didnt immediately notify the press because they had to hide the UFO they used to get Bush back to DC.
Oh, they also had illegal aliens carrying their guns for them and they were really hunting gays and blacks.

If you guys are going to make mountains out of mole hills, at least do it right.

Posted by: kctim at February 15, 2006 9:22 AM
Comment #125397
Honey P. is right. So what about a hunting accident? I pray the guy recovers and, yes, Dick Cheney is the VP, but is the THE BIGGEST news story around? Or just the easiest to cover?

Stop, you’re killing me. Al Gore made big news when he said that a girl in Florida didn’t have a desk. Maybe he should have just gone hunting with her and shot her in the chest.

By the way, those of you in the “move on” crowd may have a problem with the District Attorney. The Kleberg County DA has said that there will be a grand jury investigation if Mr. Whittington succumbs to his wounds.

Posted by: Woody Mena at February 15, 2006 10:10 AM
Comment #125401

I question why it took so long for the news to leak. My opinion is that there had been some drinking involved.
These old friends are sitting around, having a few when someone says that they haven’t been hunting in ages. They start talking and sure enough there are rifles in the house. So this group who does not have a sufficient number of rifles for every one to hunt at once (remember some one was waiting her turn to hunt and was watching from the car) drive around looking for things to shoot.
Sounds like a plot for another “jack ass” movie doesn’t it. Of course, having a drunk or slightly impared VP shooting a friend doesn’t make for a good story so they wait a day and say the friend was just peppered!

Posted by: Vague at February 15, 2006 10:31 AM
Comment #125402


One of the rules of hunting is to not take a shot at game unless you know positively where all your hunting buddies are. Another is not to turn and fire behind the line you are hunting him. This guy was not “peppered”, he was shot and at a close enough range for the bb to penetrate several layers of clothing and go into the chest cavity. Cheney got VIP treatment from the cops and the white house and the public was not notified. We have a right to know when of the leaders of our country is involved in an incident. What if the story had gotten out wrong and they said Cheney was the one “peppered”. Why is this still a story? Not because of partisan hatred but because Cheney tried to keep it out of the news. Do you really think there was an investigation. The police probable accepted the story they were given be the secret service. For you that have never heard of 28 gauge, they are used by the shooters who consider them selves to be such good shots that they are no longer challenged by by killing birds with the larger gauges, however , in Cheney’s case he may be using the 28 because the recoil from a manly 12 gauge might hurt his heart.

Posted by: scotty at February 15, 2006 10:37 AM
Comment #125403

Personally - I think the White House has proven beyond a doubt that they can shoot themselves in the foot without our help. I can sort of see why some people feel that it belongs in a political discsussion, but mostly, I’ve had such an absence of respect for Cheney for so long, that this story just props my opinion up even more.

I think that the only issue here - aside from the assumptions you can make for their delay in reporting the accident - is that this could be a huge dissaster if Whittington dies or becomes incapacitated from this accident - such has suffering a stroke or major heart attack. We could have the second in command removed from office because of legal indictments.

I think Cheney is a moron for not coming forward immediately. the delay only fosters the imagination and increases the ill-will towards the White House.

I also think Cheney has both feet in the crosshairs and is going to give ‘em both barrels.

Posted by: tony at February 15, 2006 10:43 AM
Comment #125408

I just realized why Cheney is hiding from the press: His lawyer told him not to make any public statements about the incident.

This would be very reasonable advice for someone who could be facing criminal charges. Usually people just come out and admit that their lawyer told them to clam up, but obviously it would set off even more of a feeding frenzy in the press if Cheney acknowledged that there might be a criminal investigation. Rather undermines the “no big deal” GOP talking points… So he has no choice but to hide and wait for it to blow over.

Posted by: Woody Mena at February 15, 2006 11:01 AM
Comment #125414

David E. Sanger, New York Times

This is one of the stories behind the story: the dysfunction of the executive office. A one day story has turned into a 3 day story and the subject of the late night shows because there is little co-operation and a great deal of secrecy from Cheney and his staff. Cheney seems to operate under a great deal of autonomy and lack of accountability for his actions. This incident just shows that on a personal level he believes he is beyond the rules so why should he follow them on a professional level. If any other hunter did not have the proper stamps on their license they would be fined $50 and have their guns confiscated. Cheney just says, checks in the mail. Using Airforce 2 and all the accouterments of the office of the vp for a personal hunting trip seem to be overlooked by the most of the public. These guys take way too much time off. Isn’t it about time for Bush to take his summer vacation?

Posted by: scotty at February 15, 2006 11:23 AM
Comment #125419

Jack,

… consider that more people have died in automobile accidents than in all our nation’s wars. Mistakes happen.

Responsability too. Usually.
Could we hope - even better, require - that a nation’s top official stand for his responsability in a possible deadly accident?

I will tell you something about journalists that they don’t seem to understand. They don’t have the right to know or the right to be told. They have the right to ask and to try to find out. The same goes for the public in a situation like this.
.

True. The “public” have the right to consider hiding/covering up such accident tell a lot about a politician moral status too.

But your point raise another question here: how far one have the right to try to find out or even ask without being nicknamed “traitor” or considered as a threat to national security these days?

Posted by: Philippe Houdoin at February 15, 2006 11:31 AM
Comment #125421

And now for the rest of the story:

Too bad they weren’t playing poker. It’s hard to get shot by a straight flush.

Posted by: Dave at February 15, 2006 11:39 AM
Comment #125422

Max,

It wasn’t that he didn’t have a license, he didn’t have a stamp that a lot of hunters didn’t realize you needed. He had an out of state hunting license. The stamp was paid for once he found out about it.

Kc,

Yes, manslaughter is what it’s called when an accident kills someone. Whether you were negligent or not isn’t really the issue, but a lot of times there won’t be a conviction if there isn’t negligence. Indictment should be forthcoming if this causes the unfortunate man’s untimely demise.

All,

Sure it’s sad, but the people involved make it news. The jokes about the wingless docile birds were funny until it came out about the seriousness of the guys condition. It does deserver to be said that this incident is another example of poor judgement and incompetence on the part of the VP.

Posted by: John Dixon at February 15, 2006 11:45 AM
Comment #125425

Surely, the absense of reputable middle-to-left bloggers on this topic (Stephen Daugherty, David Remer, VEM), and the high ratio of comments by Translator and Aldous, speaks for itself.

Posted by: Gandhi at February 15, 2006 11:51 AM
Comment #125438

If you go hunting and don’t have a license. Namely no quail stamp and the fish and game catch you. Not to mention some one has been shot. As you hunters know they will take away shot gun and you will be going to court. How come there has been mention of this.

Posted by: layne45 at February 15, 2006 12:21 PM
Comment #125451

layne45:
If you go hunting and don⦣x20AC;™t have a license. Namely no quail stamp and the fish and game catch you. Not to mention some one has been shot. As you hunters know they will take away shot gun and you will be going to court. How come there has been mention of this.

He had an out of state license but did not have the stamp. Also they don’t take your gun away for accidently shooting someone.

Posted by: DAVID at February 15, 2006 12:46 PM
Comment #125468
I question why it took so long for the news to leak. My opinion is that there had been some drinking involved.

Yeah, I’m reaching the same conclusion. It’s speculation of course. I’ve been patient with this one, but now the thing that did it for me is the timeline and lack of information.

Whittington was shot about 5:30PM on Saturday, Feb. 11th. But the “Hunting Accident” report is dated Monday, Feb 13th. The police Report does not appear to be available — just a terse press release. Last I heard, the police didn’t interview Cheney until 8AM on the Sunday the 12th. I don’t know if that’s true because the White House isn’t talking. But it certainly gives plenty of time for the effects of alcohol to wear off. I can’t think of any other reason to wait so long to talk to the police. Saying that their first concern was Whittington’s health is BS: Cheney’s medical team can handle that, and as soon as he is in the ambulance (or helicopter) non-medical people just get in the way. And even if he followed him to the hospital, you could talk to the police there.

Now I hear Cheney will talk to FOX News. I guarantee they won’t ask any difficult questions. This could all be cleared up just by stepping in front of the microphones and answering reporters’ (note the plural there) questions.

Posted by: Steve K at February 15, 2006 1:11 PM
Comment #125475

Hmmm.
IF they were all drunk, who was flying the UFO?
Maybe it will be a DUI that saves America from the evil Republicans.

Posted by: kctim at February 15, 2006 1:28 PM
Comment #125484

Cheney will talk to FOX News

That qualifies as a Rpblcn party political broadcast.

Posted by: ray ohrealy at February 15, 2006 1:39 PM
Comment #125495

This situation is quintessential example of the duality of the law in America. The law for the common man. I would be taken to the county jail. I would be given a breathalizer test, a urine test,and charged with hunting without a proper licence. I would be put in jail until I posted bond. Then there is the law for the rich man, the movie star, the sports star and the politician. Don’t do this anymore or we might be forced to slap you on the wrist.

Posted by: JLW at February 15, 2006 2:01 PM
Comment #125511

Why do you people insist on making this a big issue? It was an accident. I was in a very similar hunting accident, and the guy that shot me didn’t go to jail, and he didn’t get arrested. Do you want to know why he didn’t get arrested? It was an accident. Accidents happen every day, and hunting accidents like that happen very often.

Posted by: DAVID at February 15, 2006 3:04 PM
Comment #125522

Clinton’s Version of Handling This Hunting Accident:

“I did not have firearm relations … with that man … Mr. Wittington!”


Posted by: Ken Cooper at February 15, 2006 3:32 PM
Comment #125530

the Bush administration, which claims to be creating “the responsibility society.” It’s hard to think of a crowd less likely to take responsibility for anything they have done or not done than this bunch. They’re certainly good at preaching responsibility to others—and blaming other people for everything that goes wrong on their watch. from Molly Ivens at http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20060213_accident_hunting_cheney/

Posted by: ray ohrealy at February 15, 2006 3:43 PM
Comment #125540
Why do you people insist on making this a big issue?

Because Cheney and the White House insist on not being open and forthcoming about what happened.

If Cheney had come before the press on sunday and answered their questions (note “their” — not just one handpicked reporter’s questions), it would all be over except for the comedians.

Posted by: Steve K at February 15, 2006 3:59 PM
Comment #125573

KCTIM,

Damn-it if I don’t like your version better—ofcourse it involved bigfoot who was driving the UFO stopping off at the liquor store on the way back.

I’ll bet this guy is hurt worse than what the republican designer press is telling us. He’s 78 years old spattered with smoking hot bb’s and had atleast one pop him ‘in or near’ a major ventricle or cardio artery. Those trying to blow this off as a “garsh, happens all the dang time” type thing must be the clumsiest most accident prone hunters around. this type of thing happens all the time with drunks or people not proficient with firearms—of which I suspect both.

Should make for interesting conversation for their next White House slumber party—“Hey remember the time I shot your dad in the chest and face with birdshot after downing several martinis, woo that was a time”.

Posted by: Translator at February 15, 2006 5:04 PM
Comment #125626

I’m really getting sick of this blog… with all the crap going wrong in this Administration we’re talking about Cheney getting drunk and firing off a few shots at his hunting buddies. As long as he’s shooting other Republicans I don’t care.

What about running a blog about a drug company that can put Breast, Colon and Lung cancer in remission that wants to charge $100,000.00 per year for treatment.

Posted by: Pat at February 15, 2006 7:39 PM
Comment #125637

What really irks me is how so many people in this administration feel they don’t have to answer for their actions. They aren’t royalty after all. You and I pay Cheney’s salary. If he shoots someone he needs to account for it ASAP, not 5 days later, and, for criminey sakes, not just to Brit Hume!!!!

Posted by: Shelly at February 15, 2006 8:05 PM
Comment #125684

It’s interesting that you think that ‘paying for it’ is having to talk to the press (something he is in no way bound to do at all) and not reporting it to the local sheriff, something he did within 15 minutes of the incident.

The whole issue and the media attention that it has garnered just because the media are self-serving profit whores makes me sick.

Posted by: Rhinehold at February 15, 2006 11:03 PM
Comment #125717

What are liberals hoping for here? That Cheney will resign and that Bush will then get to basically appoint the next President of the United States?

The guy hurt his friend in a hunting accident—something he undoubtedly feels terrible about. Beyond this giving anyone pause who might be considering a hunting trip with the guy, it’s all nonsense.

Posted by: sanger at February 16, 2006 12:28 AM
Comment #125777

Sanger,

You obviously didn’t read my post at JayJay’s blog on Plamegate. Here it is “cut-n-pasted” for your viewing pleasure:

Holy Crap!

Cheney Says He Has Power to Declassify Info:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060216/ap_on_go_pr_wh/cheney_cia_leak_10

What the hell is this? Think about it, this is the same administration that fought tooth and nail over releasing info about the Katrina response.

Have I ever mentioned arrogance?

I’m feelin’ pretty dumb right now for suggesting to Paul Siegel that we “take the high road” regarding Cheney’s “shooting incident”. Now I know why he shot that lawyer!

The lawyer told him his legal rationale sucked and Dick musta’ said, “Go F*** Yourself”. Like, uh, that’s never happened before. Yep, that’s gotta’ be it, then his gun misfired.

I no longer think Bush, Cheney, & Co. should be impeached. They should be tried for high treason, PERIOD! Then they and all those who aided and abetted them should at the very least be forever EXILED after stripping them of all their ill-gotten wealth.

KansasDem

Posted by: KansasDem at February 16, 2006 12:55 AM

Posted by: KansasDem at February 16, 2006 3:18 AM
Comment #125828

RDAVIDC,

The author, Paul Siegel, is doing a pretty good job of showing a parrallel between the shooting incident and how this administartion handles things. There is a significant story here, and it is NOT ANYTHING LIKE ME OR ANYONE AND A FRIEND HAVING AN ACCIDENT. Here’s why:
I grew up in Texas and I have hunted the same country as Cheney many times. Ever since I was a kid, I have periodically taken and passed various hunter-safety courses just to be responsible about what is an inherently dangerous activity - hunting. I credit the fact that I took such safety training with the fact that I have never had an “accident” on any hunting trip I have ever taken. Such courses teach things like:
1. It is the resposibility of the one who pulls the trigger (not the one shot), to make sure the shot can be safely taken FIRST.

2. It is the responsibility of the hunter, EACH hunter, to know where the others in the party are BEFORE a shot gets taken.

3. It is the responsibility of the hunter to see the target he/she is shotting at clearly before taking the shot

Such a course would have been most helpful to Cheney. I guess he didn’t think it was necessary. Much like he didn’t think accurate inteligence was necessary, huh? It is preposterous, but illuminating, that the White House immediately after the event chose to BLAME THE VICTIM. I am still aghast at the shere gall of this administration sometimes. Now, the White House is back-tracking on that accusation and playing damage control.

What is interesting to me is how this administration is handling this and how Cheney is handling this. It’s extremely revealing. I readily admit that this story should have died long ago and it hasn’t even been a week yet. It should have been a non-story. However, the reactions of both Cheney and the White House are keeping it alive by being so irresponible and dishonest in how they are handling it. The significance is the pattern we are seeing. It DOES resemble how they have handled things in the past.

RGF

Posted by: RGF at February 16, 2006 8:22 AM
Comment #125842

Cheney will have a lawyer who will prove this accident happened due to some horrible childhood memory, he will be given no punishment because of it.
OR
Cheney will be charged with neglegence, fined, and made to mow lawns, tho it will be ‘sentenced served’ due to heart problems.
OR
Cheney can blame it on his meds.

Why shouldn’t he get to use the same lame excuses anyone uses? or just be let off because he gets a judge who doesn’t believe in putting people in jail?
Maybe they’ll send him to GITMO and make him read the Koran!!

No. People want him hung from the nearest tree. The same people who want to ‘understand’ why people commit HORRIBLE crimes ON PURPOSE and give them another chance at living a ‘normal’ life in society.

Posted by: bugcrazy at February 16, 2006 8:54 AM
Comment #125847

Here’s what WSJ columnist Peggy Noonan, aka Ronald Reagan’s Fpeechwriter, has to say:

Can media bias be detected in the endless coverage? Sure, always. But it’s also a great story. A vice president of the United States shot a guy in a hunting accident, and no one on his staff told the press. That’s a story.

More importantly, and this really surprised me, she thinks that the Bushies are probably talking about dumping Cheney! Worth a look:

http://www.opinionjournal.com/columnists/pnoonan/?id=110007972

Posted by: Woody Mena at February 16, 2006 9:16 AM
Comment #125865
It’s interesting that you think that ‘paying for it’ is having to talk to the press (something he is in no way bound to do at all) and not reporting it to the local sheriff, something he did within 15 minutes of the incident.

The whole issue and the media attention that it has garnered just because the media are self-serving profit whores makes me sick.

Rhinehold,

Your post here goes to the heart of why the White House and VP need to have been more forthcoming about what went on.

Today’s New York Times has a timeline (p A23) of the entire incident, put together as best they could, including notations of where information isn’t consistent.

According to the Times, “The Secret Service, which put the time of the shooting at 5:50PM, said it had notified Sheriff Ramon Salinas III of Kenedy County by 7PM.”

That’s more than 2 hours. Note the “by 7PM.” Maybe it was 15 minutes. Maybe 2 hours. Who’s right? I don’t know, and you don’t know. But can the sitting Vice President or his proxy at least get up in front of the microphone and TELL US THE TRUTH?????

And what we, the public, was told us on sunday was WRONG:

1. On sunday, Armstrong said it was Whittington’s fault. Finally, 4 days after the incident, Cheney admits it was his fault.

2. On sunday, Armstrong said no one had any alcohol. Wednesday, Cheney said he had had a beer at lunchtime.

There wouldn’t be the media attention you bitch about if Cheney — or at least the white House press office — had come forward and answered questions on sunday. And then promised to get the details where they didn’t know the facts.

I’m not suggesting that Cheney did anything wrong, or that he was drunk, or any such thing. I just expect him to be more forthcoming when he’s the center of a police incident.

It’s so curious that the administration that argues it can listen in on people’s phone calls without a warrant, or gain access to personal medical files, tells us that the Vice President of the United States shooting someone so severely that that person requires hospitalization and requires the police to get involved is a private matter. It makes no sense to me.

Posted by: Steve K at February 16, 2006 10:34 AM
Comment #125895

layne45:
If you go hunting and don⦣x20AC;⦣x201E;?t have a license. Namely no quail stamp and the fish and game catch you. Not to mention some one has been shot. As you hunters know they will take away shot gun and you will be going to court. How come there has been mention of this.

He had an out of state license but did not have the stamp. Also they don’t take your gun away for accidently shooting someone.

Posted by: DAVID at February 15, 2006 12:46 PM


David, so what your saying is if I buy a license in lets say California and go hunting in Main. That’s OK? And I was not implying that the shot gun be taken away for shooting some one. He was hunting with out a license. And I don’t think you can put a quail stamp on a license from a different state.I could be wrong,but I don’t think it works like that.

Posted by: layne45 at February 16, 2006 11:57 AM
Comment #125953

Let’s put a stop to the assumptions, shall we?

There has been no mention of “out of state licenses” whatsoever!

Cheney’s office staff apparently acquired a basic Texas hunting license for him but did NOT know that a quail stamp was necessary. They remedied the situation only after the shooting incident brought attention to the hunting trip in general. The way licenses in Texas work is that there is basic fee for a hunting license and then one can purchase stamps for each time of game a hunter wishes to go after. Cheney had the license, but not the appropriate quail stamp.

What perplexes me about the shooting is that such a breach of BASIC GUN AND HUNTER SAFETY was excercised by the vice president. It seems incredibly negligent of safety that he did what he did. This incident begs the question: Why did the Vice President of our country not see fit to take a basic hunter safety course? I’ve been hunting for years and I often take refreshers of hunter safety knowlege and skills courses just because the sport of hunting is inherently dangerous. I feel it is my responibility as a hunter to be careful and aware at all times. If on the other hand, HE DID take a course…well then he is about as serious about the information in the course as this administration is in general about such things as law, the UN, inteligence reports and American lives!
To take the course and still commit such an inredibly negligent act is the height of stupidity. To not take the course, when he was clearly not well versed in hunter safety techniques, is no better.

No matter how you look at this, it is indicative of the kind of bullshit slap-happy shoddy care this administration (and Cheney in particular) excercises regularly. This story, in and of itself, is mostly a non-story and rightfully should fade away. However, it shows a lot about how things are handled by Cheney, The White House and their respective staffs. For instance, following the incident (and this still just amazes me), The White House actually blamed the victim of the shooting for getting shot!!! huh? Does that mean that Cheney, who actually pulled the trigger, should NOT be responsible for making sure of his shot BEFORE he pulls the trigger??!!?? That flies in the face of every basic principle and rule of hunter safety. I am stunned that such rediculousness was even offered! If one is out hunting and a member of the hunting party keeps popping up in unexpected places in such a way that it is impossible to keep track of his whereabouts…DON’T PULL THE TRIGGER!!!

Why is that so difficult to understand? Over on the conservative republican blog I even read multiple accusations by Bushies that “Liberals and Democrats don’t know anything about guns or hunting.” Good greif people, that is hard to believe in light of these events! How those who support this man (who just out of EXTREME NEGLIGENCE nearly killed someone), can then turn around and claim that the other side of the political spectrum doesn’t know anything about guns or hunting is beyond beleif. PURE REDICULOUSNESS.

It proves a sad point I have suspected all along. No one in this country cares anymore about truth or facts. People are first deciding what they want to beleive, and then seeking only the information which supports the point of view they find most convenient. We are a nation without any political dialogue at all. These blogs are clearly about venting, not discourse.

RGF

Posted by: RGF at February 16, 2006 1:49 PM
Comment #125965

Dead Eye’s Safty Rules
ALWAYS KEEP YOUR GUN LOADED: Guns are tools built for one purpose: killing. Not having it filled with ammo makes about as much sense as waiting until tee time to put clubs in your calfskin golf bag. When you pick up a gun, always confirm that it is loaded by blowing away something that annoys you. Also, safeties are for pussies.
ALWAYS KEEP YOUR GUN AIMED AT STUFF: This is Deadeye Dick’s most important rule! Keeping your gun pointed at someplace you hope there might be something to kill means that you’re way less likely to waste valuable bullets on shots that don’t even draw blood.
ALWAYS KEEP YOUR FINGER ON THE TRIGGER: Whether it’s a bird in the bush or a geriatric trial lawyer stumbling in a senile haze, you never know when your target will make a break for it. That’s why your sweaty finger should ALWAYS be caressing the sensitive curves of your unit’s trigger. (Just watch out for occasional jolts from your bionic heart!)
ALWAYS BRING DOCTORS SO YOU DON’T GET CHARGED WITH MURDER: Sure it’s awesome to shoot stuff, but on the off-chance you “accidentally” hit a “friend” in the face after guzzling some hipflask whiskey, you don’t want land in jail and get your enormous dimpled heiny drilled by white-collar criminal Yalies named Chad for three to five years. So make sure at least two or three top-notch cardiovascular surgeons are with you AT ALL TIMES!

Posted by: mrlck at February 16, 2006 2:17 PM
Comment #125976

this type of thing happens all the time with drunks or people not proficient with firearms Posted by: Translator
As long as he’s shooting other Republicans I don’t care. Posted by: Pat
the media are self-serving profit whores makes me sick Posted by: Rhinehold

Yahoo to Translator and Pat, and to the other one, Yes, especially Rupert Murdoch. He can help teach our children that it is always better to shoot someone with a rifle than to get your cork soaked.

Posted by: ray ohrealy at February 16, 2006 2:51 PM
Comment #126006

Wow people, talk about a double standard. You have one guy from one party, who less than 10 years ago got impeached for a blo-job and then you have the other guy who gets sympathy for even getting questioned? Give me a break. Yeah, Clinton tried to cover it up, but so did this guy. Both are cases of personal bad judgement, not illegal activities yet the treatment is so different. Sorry guys, but if the situation had been reversed, Clinton would hung on a noose by now.

Posted by: Lisa C. at February 16, 2006 4:04 PM
Comment #126098

RGF- You have some very good points. My hat’s off to you for raising this to an adult level of discussion.

Posted by: Amani at February 16, 2006 7:48 PM
Comment #126479

First off, for those who haven’t kept up with the news, it was the police that choose not to question VP Cheney until Sunday. They did this because all the witnesses believed it was an accident. As a matter of fact, it was the VP’s people that pushed the police to come earlier on Sunday than they originally intended. Second, the VP’s office informed the individuals that are responsible for handling law enforcement (i.e. the police) within minutes of the accident. There is no requirement legal or otherwise to inform the national media as well as the police.

Posted by: RAYMOND KNIGHT at February 17, 2006 2:33 PM
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