Democrats & Liberals: Archives

John
It wasn’t Cindy Sheehan there.

It was a manipulated Cindy there.

A Cindy Sheehan who has been manipulated from the get go by Move On .Org and others bent on sowing rancor and hatred.

The State of the Union is the forum for the president to address America.

It is not a forum for anything else.

If that would be the case,then others,perhaps those who support the president,would counter demonstrate.

The result would be a circus.

Last night’s address was a serious one.

Historic in importance.

Alledgely the congress and the office of the presidency should be accorded a modicum of decency.

Had I been the president,I would have slapped Alito on the back and mooned Ted Kennedy.

He did neither.

Cindy Sheehan is now a disgrace …and an example of what those not in power would do to shit on this administration.

She just had to get her name mentioned last night,and guys like you are all too willing to scream about it.

She broke rules.
Being unruley and throwing things is NOT part of a peaceful protest.
If she had been polite and sat there in her gorgeous t-shirt, she would have been more effective for her cause.
The cameras would have been on her all night.
She would have been interviewed about what she thought of the speech.
Instead she chose to act like a spoiled rotten child and was removed.

S.E.
A manipulated Cindy, huh? I see. I’m sure the death of a child wouldn’t be a compelling reason for protest, or questions, or even concerns on your part. See, not like our government, you’re probably a heartless, gutless and spineless person who would sit there and do nothing while lies and injustice swallow up the lives of our youth in a war will inevitably prove one of our nations biggest errors. The fact is Ms. Sheehan is doing what every person with a thinking mind SHOULD be doing. This includes our representatives. If they are unwilling to represent the voices of their constituency, which at this point clearly shows the majority is not in favor or confident about this war, then thank you Cindy for having the courage to speak out.

Being unruley and throwing things is NOT part of a peaceful protest.

http://today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=domesticNews&storyID=2006-02-01T040031Z_01_N3129628_RTRUKOC_0_US-BUSH-SPEECH-SHEEHAN.xml
A Reuters photographer said Sheehan entered the House gallery a few minutes before Bush was to speak and was directed to her seat. She had been seated for less than a minute when a plainclothes agent took her by the arm, said, “You’ve got to leave,” and rushed her from the gallery.

Sheehan did not resist and left with a smile.

A Cindy Sheehan who has been manipulated from the get go by Move On .Org and others bent on sowing rancor and hatred.

No Mighty one,
Moveon was started as a defense against those on the right bent on sowing rancor and hatred and disinformation. Like whoever is saying Cindy Sheehan was acting like a child and throwing things.

As I mentioned in the other SOTU thread, I think throwing her out was a mistake. Letting her get away with her antics, what ever they were going to be (I very much doubt that she was going to sit quietly with her mouth shut), would have shown off the childishness of some in the opposition.
Believe me; the Democrats were better off without her presence.

SE:
Again, this is not about appropriateness. Whether you or Bush or Frist or Alito or Kennedy think about her ‘behavior’ isn’t the issue.

She was arrested for wearing a t-shirt.

Traveler:
You’re right.

If they just let her sit there, wear the t-shirt and keep the cameras off of her, she would have been just another face in the crowd.

But no, they came out swinging. Whether it was the Capital Police department’s actions alone or whether it was Rove or whoever, they came out swinging.

Now they have a potential civil rights problem on their hands.

But no, they came out swinging. Whether it was the Capital Police department’s actions alone or whether it was Rove or whoever, they came out swinging.

I think it was one of the Democrats. They had more of a reason to make her leave than Bush or Rove, of all people.

Ok, the article mentions she was ‘arrested’ but I don’t see anyone mentioning the charge or that she was ‘taken downtown’. All it mentions is that she was removed from the auditorium.

Simply being removed is not a violation of her freedom of speech, even her arrest would not have been either. Is there anywhere where we can see the details of this arrest that is reported by Reuters to have occured?

The link from the CBS site:

Schneider said Sheehan had worn a T-shirt with an anti-war slogan to Tuesday night’s speech and covered it up until she took her seat. Police warned her that such displays were not allowed in the House chamber, but she did not respond, the spokeswoman said.

So, Dawn, It was peaceful protest She broke no rules of polite conduct, only some ordinance. Which, BTW, I agree with.

So, Eagle, you think Sheehan has no mind of her own and therefore she must really be a Republican? The SOTU address was created by Nixon as part of “political theater”. Bush recieved his “modicum of decency” despite your inferrence, and there was no “historic importance” to his speech. It was a rehash of his same old crap. For some additional perspective, let’s see Horsey’s dictionary of Bushisms:

Ownership Society: If you’re poor, you’re on your own

Permanent Tax cuts: Permanent deficits for America

Plan for Vistory: We’re gonna be in Iraq a long, long time

Spending restraints: Billions for Iraq, millions in food stamp cuts

Terrorist surveillance: Spy on anyone, anywhere, anytime

Visionary Agenda: Beat the Democrats in November.

BTW:If I were president I would have

“shit on slapped Alito and DeLay on the back and pantsed Frist mooned Ted Kennedy

Ah, I see it now, disorderly conduct. She was told that the display was not allowed while ‘in the chamber’, which would explain why it was not illegal outside of the chamber as you suggest, John.

Perhaps it actually is against the law to hold up signs, wear controversial tshirts, act innapropriately, etc, while IN THE CHAMBER.

Rhinehold:

?
Did you read the article?
It clearly states:
“Sheehan, the mother of a fallen soldier in Iraq who reinvigorated the anti-war movement, was handcuffed and charged with unlawful conduct, according to Capitol Police Sgt. Kimberly Schneider. The charge was a misdemeanor and Sheehan was being released on her own recognizance, Schneider said.”

Rhinehold:

Perhaps it actually is against the law to hold up signs, wear controversial tshirts, act innapropriately, etc, while IN THE CHAMBER.

Huh?! Have you ever watched C-Span? With the likes of Kennedy, Hatch, Byrd and Stevens, it’s a wonder that they’re not arrested on a daily basis.
(sorry, couldn’t resist)

Funny, I rarely see any political signs being held up in the seating area of the chambers while C-Span is on the air, that would lend to it not being allowed for everyone, not just ‘anti-bush/anti-war protesters’.

And no, I do not see this as a violation of anyone’s first amendment rights. It’s like a radio program not playing a controversial song and the artist claiming that they are being ‘censored’.

Jack.
It’s critique the message…not the messenger.

Maybe the parents of Sargent Clay who was in the gallery should have punched her lights out then…they suffered as much as Cindy….she doesn’t have the franchise on suffering my friend.

She is politicial now and that means sharks like me are going to eat her up,no ifs and or buts.

She mounts the pulic rostrum,she now gets it with both barrels.

Dave

The SOTU address was created by Nixon as part of “political theater”. Bush recieved his “modicum of decency” despite your inferrence, and there was no “historic importance” to his speech.

You’re wrong about this. The report on the state of the union is mandated by the constitution. Every President except for Harrison and Garfield (who died in office) has either given a speech or submitted a written report annually.

Article II Section. 3.
He shall from time to time give to the Congress Information of the State of the Union, and recommend to their Consideration such Measures as he shall judge necessary and expedient.

George Washington did the report annually so it became tradition.

Jack
By the way…where was that blowhard learer of the secular progressives…you know…the Roman Catholic who cheated in college…who left a floater up the Cape…where was the lion of liberalism last night?

Drowning in his scotch?

At least Kerry had the testiculiar fortitude to show up…or else his t-shirt didn’t fit…those xxxxx-l t-shirts are hard to find I am told.

Oh yeah respect, the idiots wife had a seat reserved for a Dog. Boy that show how much this administration wants to show only those who “are with us” and quiet the debate.

It does not matter if I agree with Sheehan or not, it is a matter of free speach. This was not a sign or a banner but a t-shirt. Could I be arrested for wearing a t-shirt. Bush makes Nixon seem like an open mind liberal. What ever happened to the idea of debate, disent or just old not agreeing with the administration.

Once again it is the old “with us or against us” mode with this president. And all the while the wingnuts say look at OBL and how he wants no compromise. Where’s the difference?

I find it sad and frightening that people forget that Cindy Sheehan has lost her son to this country—-to the Bush war. I cannot imagine what that must feel like—-and how her life and thoughts and trust has changed. How sad for her to feel like she lost something so irreplaceable and so apart of herself and the person responsible for doing so will not even listen—-not even acknowledge the mistakes made and the misleading that went on—-and really, the “mistake” and the responsibility he has for her son and other daughters and sons being there. If she had been a mother of a son who died in Iraq wearing a t-shirt that said “I love Bush and he is keeping America free”—-do you think she would have been handcuffed and charged with anything, let alone taken from the chamber? they would have had her stand or sit next to Laura.

“I find it sad and frightening that people forget that Cindy Sheehan …”
…’s SON chose to serve and asked to be sent back to Iraq for another tour.

Yes. It is an awful thing for her to have lost her child to war BUT her son had a mind of his own and chose to be a part of the fight in Iraq.

Why is it that noone seems to care about her son’s point of view?

Wow. This is just pathetic. What the hell did anyone gain by arresting her? Really. This was a huge gift to her… she now is back in the spot light and Bush looks like a petty fool. It doesn’t matter if Bush was behind this, the mere fact that everyone knows her fight is with bush and she’s removed (after being invited by a Representative.) Such nonsense.

If she had be allowed to sit there, especially been shown several times on national TV, it would’ve probably come across as petty or foolish. Now, she has a huge following and Bush comes off looking like the class geek hiding behind the teacher on the playground.

It’s not just that this looks so pathetic, but it shows that someone there hasn’t the brain power to work through something as simple as this. I’m so proud I could puke.

That was the saddest State Of The Union I’ve ever seen.

But, the problem is not just Bush.

The problem is incumbents.
Most (if not all) of them (on both sides).
The consequences of decades of irresponsibility is catching up with us.
Newcomers to Congress can not pass any badly-needed, common-sense reforms, because incumbents won’t allow any reforms that may reduce the their power or opportunities for self-gain. Government is FOR SALE. The government is running out of money, running up astronomical debt, and it’s getting harder and harder to bribe the voters with their own tax-dollars.

And the solution for Health Care is not more government. The solution is to get rid of all the middlemen (government and insurance companies).

Sic,

Other than insults by unsubstantiated personnal opinion, where exactly did you “eat” or “barrell” her or Kennedy?
Unless, of course, your comparative standard is to equal the Slime Boat Liars for Bush?
I mean, she sat down wearing a T-shirt. Suddenly, you ‘say’ she’s MoveOn.org’s shill defaming the president and we’re all a bunch of shouting sycophants. Up your dose brother…

Traveller,

The requirement for a report on the union is there. Nixon upped it to a bicameral TV show.

tony,

As much a proponent of free speech that I am, I would agree with a rule that prohibits protests within the chamber. If protest were allowed, then no one would be allowed in. But, I do wonder if she planned it through to this point. I think it’s likely since she went so peacefully and smiling.

Bush comes off looking like the class geek hiding behind the teacher on the playground

I don’t know why some of you are assuming Bush had her leave. He had no reason to do so.

My guess is that one of the Democrats asked to have her removed so she wouldn’t make them look bad.

The requirement for a report on the union is there. Nixon upped it to a bicameral TV show.

You’re wrong on that too. Truman was the first president to give the address on Television.

Trav,

re: SOTU address. Stop googling and thinking that small isolated facts make your point. Do you nkow what bicameral means?

re: Sheehan, I think you’re totally wrong. She was removed by the capital police for violating a campus rule. The Democrats are winning this spin round, made all the easier by the fact that Bush has only exposed himself to one unscreened audience in the last year (that I’m aware of). EOS.

Cindy Sheehan has got to be the most foolish tool in the lib’s arsenal. Her speeches are so far out of touch that it’s a wonder she hasn’t been hauled off in a straight jacket. As for the t-shirt incident in the capitol chambers, it was obviously another futile setup by the libs to put Bush on the fire once again. The fact of the matter is, you didn’t see the elected representatives and senators sitting in clown costumes and/or S&M outfits, did you??? There are certain places where it is most respectable to dress accordingly. It’s all a matter of respect for your country, not free speech. What would you do if you were getting married and your soon-to-be husband or wife insisted on wearing burlap bags instead of traditional garb? It would be most embarassing. You libs really have hit the bottom of the barrel. Stop being childish and get a grip, for christ’s sake.

That was the saddest State Of The Union I’ve ever seen.

But, the problem is not just Bush.

The problem is incumbents.
Most (if not all) of them (on both sides).
The consequences of decades of irresponsibility is catching up with us.

Newcomers to Congress can not pass any badly-needed, common-sense reforms, because incumbents won’t allow any reforms that may reduce the their power or opportunities for self-gain. Government is FOR SALE. The government is running out of money, running up astronomical debt, and it’s getting harder and harder to bribe the voters with their own tax-dollars.

And the solution for Health Care is not more government. The solution is to get rid of all the middlemen (government and insurance companies).

Cindy Sheehan would have become the focus of the SOTU instead of the president. That, and only that is reason enough to have her removed. She has proven herself to be disruptive and her attention seeking behavior was not appropriate to that forum. The SOTU is actually watched by some of us for a reason: we want to hear it. The office of the president and the chambers of Congress deserve respect and dignity - and Cindy (now be honest here) probably could not have just sat and listened. Her son died. A lot of sons and daughters have died. They volenteered for service. No one was drafted. Many re-enlist or ask for additional tours of duty. What about them. Are they fools and liars? No. They are patriotic young people with a mission and a desire to serve. How dare Cindy make a mockery of her son’s life. He’s probably spinning in his grave.

SE-
Your response seemed to me to be some kind of parody before I saw your byline on the bottom. I mean, a manipulated Cindy Sheehan?

I get it, It wasn’t her, it was her evil twin. Good Heavens, that’s an Ad Hominem argument if I ever heard it. What’s next, subliminal messages in MoveOn ads being responsible for Bush’s terrible polling numbers?

Bush is still in the bubble, and you folks are with him. When is it going to occur to you folks that there are rational reasons for disliking and protesting agains Bush? When is it going to sink in that This is the Marketplace of ideas, not the Walmart of pre-fab Republican notions?

Yes, Bush and most (if not all) incumbents are in a bubble. But, it’s a profitable bubble. Where else can you work and abuse so many things for self gain ?

That was the saddest State Of The Union I’ve ever seen.

But, the problem is not just Bush.

The problem is incumbents.
Most (if not all) of them (on both sides).
The consequences of decades of fiscal irresponsibility> is catching up with us.
Newcomers to Congress can not pass any badly-needed, common-sense reforms, because incumbents won’t allow any reforms that may reduce the their power or opportunities for self-gain. Government is FOR SALE. The government is running out of money, running up astronomical debt, and it’s getting harder and harder to bribe the voters with their own tax-dollars.

And the solution for Health Care is not more government. The solution is to get rid of all the middlemen (government and insurance companies).

I think it’s still laughable that people want to point to Sheehan and what she meant to all of this. Sheehan just got to most amazing bonus of free press… all at the expense of Bush.

No one will consider if Bush had this done or not. Sheehan is protesting Bush, it will be assumed that he was the one who had her removed… in handcuffs no less.

Ilsa - Sheehan is now the focus of the SOTU for the simple reason she was arrested. Had she simple been allowed to sit there during the speech, they would’ve put her on camera once in a while and would’ve probably comes across sort of less important that she once was. Had Bush directly welcomed her and mentioned that even people who see things differently are welcome, he would’ve slammed the door closed on her cause.

This is about Bush and those around him being completely unable to deal with any situation appropriately. A freshman-level PR student would’ve got this one right. How did bush manage to get it so wrong. (btw - I googled Bush and the Sheehan, and they’re getting about equal press this morning.) there’s no excuse for this.

And the Department of Energy is a joke.
This is one area where the government could have truly helped the nation.
But incumbents are bought-and-paid-for.
Government is FOR SALE.

Rhinehold,

You bought up another interesting dilima. Censorship.

I wonder where everyone stands on the idea of censorship. Because I think that removing her sort of falls into that boat.

Stephen

Yes,a manipulated Sheehan.

She is being squeezed for every drop of sympathy from you guys for what she’s worth.

None of you here made comment of the parents of Sargent Clay who died there last month.

Zero.Nilch. Nada.

How about them?Or the thousands of parents of the brave who BELIEVE in what we are doing there?

Does Shhenan speak for the majority of servicemen who volunteer to go there?

Or did she suffer a nervous breakdown as a result of her tragic loss…and now is being exploited to the point that her husband left her and her brave son probably rolling over in his grave?

Of course ther are many many reasons to protest Bush.I hate the word “crusade” that he and others in his administration use for instance.It is a stupid choice of words and inflames Muslims everywhere.

But you know what?I still like the guy and believe in his mission..that Iraq is a batlefield…that better there than here.

Problem is that you,who wax so eloquent, are so blinded by your point of view that nothing that the president can possible do will ever appease you.

At least I am consistant…which pisses many off here…but so what.I believe in the president and his mission.

The last election 52% of the population agreed with me,and the next election a majority will too electing either McCain or Guilliani.

So who is really out of step,Stephen…you or I?

Cindy Sheehan has no right to disrupt a speech for everyone else. I believe in the right to protest, but I am getting sick of treating protestors, no matter how rude, misguided or inappropriate, as heroes.

You don’t have the right to speak everywhere and every time you want.

Sheehan was just trying to play the role of the skunk at the garden party. We all know what she thinks by now. Her voice is far from silenced. It is just not worth listening to her.

Sheehan is the classic case of someone famous for one thing who thinks she can now speak about everything else with authority. We stipulate that she knows grief of losing a loved one. If we are trying to understand that, we may talk to her, or to the many other millions of parents who have suffered a similar loss to wars, disease, car accidents etc. This is not a unique experience.

In all other topics, she has no particular expertise and seems especially in the dark about politics. Her opinions in these respects are worthless.

Problem is that you … are so blinded by your point of view that nothing that the president can possible do will ever appease appall you. Posted by sicilianeagle at February 1, 2006 11:32 AM

You don’t have the right to speak everywhere and every time you want.

Posted by Jack at February 1, 2006 12:02 PM

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, * or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances*.

*deleted by Jack

Why is it that noone seems to care about her son’s point of view?

Posted by: bugcrazy at February 1, 2006 09:27 AM

Jack, Eagle…

You guys are missing the point here. This really has nothing to do with Sheehan. No one here has a different opinion about her today because of what happened. She does what she thinks is right. (More power to her, from my POV, but really… who cares?)

This was a softball issue for Bush and he swung for the bleachers and missed in a really ugly way. He had 1000 different ways to handle this and permanently take Sheehan off the front pages. What if he just said hello to her or acknowledged her during his speech. He would’ve looked much more tolerant and presidential. He could’ve ignored her and let the cameras pick her up once in a while. But - she was removed from the Senate IN HANDCUFFS! Why not just pull a Rodney King on her right there in her chair?

And what’s all this crap about the t-shirt? Come on! You have a formal get together at your house and a friend shows up in blue jeans and sandals. What do you do? Give him a drink and ask if he would like to borrow a change of clothes. You look gracious, your friend looks like a bit of an idiot, but then everyone remembers what a good party it was. If you kick him out of your house, people have pity for your friend and you look like a petty fool, and that’s all people will talk about.

The result: Sheehan stole the stage from Bush by default. Very few people are discussing real points on his speech, or what’s to come… just one more perfectly FU_ked up execution from W and his staff.

Please - keep up the resentment towards Sheehan. I’m sure she’d love the extra attention.

Interestingly, there is another article about a congressman’s (R) wife also being removed for wearing a shirt that said something about supporting the troops, but no mention of her arrest. Removal for both, but arrest only for wearing the wrong words. What idiots we have in government and police.

All

I don’t give a damn about Sheehan personally but leave it to you guys to deny that she isn’t being propped up by the fanaticial left…which she proudly serves now as its poster girl.
Check out Mike Moore’s site..her father confessor and intellectual(?) pimp.

He say jump,she says,How high?

Not one word from any of you about Gray’s parents.

Here the stiletto cuts both ways and none of you apparently like it.

You say Sheehan,I say Gray.

Cheap politicial trick by her and two bit California Congess woman who gave her the ticket.

By the way,exactly where was the liberal lion last night?

Your collective silence is deafing.

I find this action taken by the police to be no different than an expulsion from school for a dress code violation. Did you see one other person there dressed in a T-Shirt period. The presence in the chamber itself warrants the the respect of our founding fathers and the institution they created that gave us our freedom to speak freely. This freedom of speech everyone is so happy to use as an excuse to be rude and disrespectful is not a cloak in which we can hide from our actions. Cindy Sheahan spoke freely. She wore her shirt. Now like all of us she is responsible for her actions which netted her a disorderly conduct charge.

I agree with alot of posts here simply stating that the state of the union address is for the president to inform congress on the state of the union. No where does the state of the union provide for the voice of anyone but the President. Members of Congress and Crowd are limited to their responses to the speech. Applauding or Booing which rarely happens. Shirt and Tie. Blouse and slacks or a dress or skirt or if representing the military or other form of public service, the uniform of their profession. No T-shirts and Sandles. Tie-dyed shirts and flipflops and certainly nooooo shorts. Saying that her free speech was somehow violated suggests that she was not allowed to speak. That is wrong. She did say what she wanted to say. Freedom of speech does not come with free national air time on every major network in america during the state of the union. Kennedy realized this show wouldn’t be about him so he probably decided to grandstand at a local tavern.

The way I see it. If pissing in public is against the law and we can be charged with a misdemeanor, than pissing on the United States Soldiers graves who have died believing in their mission by a grief stricken mother who’s views do not represent her son’s (you know the soldier that died for his country and his mother’s freedom to embarrass herself) should at the very least be a misdemeanor.

No dissent is not against the law. But I suspect she didn’t have a permit for public demonstration which is required by law to do so on Government property part of which I am sure I own – maybe a thread in the carpet – and to me she was tresspassing. And dammit! I want to press charges.

It amazes me sometimes, that people are still shocked when this kind of action comes from this administration. They’ve been snuffing out dissent since they were appointed by the Supreme Court in 2000. Don’t worry, Fox will tell everyone that it was the liberal portrayl of the situation that made it look worse than it was.

EXCUSE ME,

“Saying that her free speech was somehow violated suggests that she was not allowed to speak.”

So can I quote you on that the next time someone says that campaign contributions should be considered “freedom of speech”?

Think about it.

I just put this up in the red column, but it applies here also, so I’m going to post it here too:

2,245 Dead — How Many More?
That’s what Cindy Sheehan’s T-shirt said, and what she was arrested for. It was the same shirt she’d been wearing all day at the “World Can’t Wait” rally that had been held at the reflecting pond near the Capitol. There was never any banner or anything thrown by Cindy Sheehan, so those who are saying so are completely full of sh*t. Capitol police would not have allowed her into the room with a banner because they check everyone who enters for security purposes. FYI, both the Associated Press and CNN have now confirmed that she had no banner, but was only arrested for wearing a shirt that displayed her criticism of the Neocon war and occupation of Iraq.

The reason she, or anyone else who wears something they don’t approve of can now be arrested is due to the Patriot Act. One of the unconstitutional provisions of that legislation gave police and security forces the right to arrest anyone for exercising their first amendment rights in public places during certain events and they are currently trying to expand that legislation to make it a felony (rather than trespassing as it is now), and increase the maximum penalty from six months (what it is currently) to one year.
Quote from that link:

“You are talking about giving the executive branch broader authority to create these exclusion zones which could cover broad areas and last for days [during an event],” David Kopel, a constitutional expert with the Cato Institute, told FOXNews.com.

Btw, back in 1971, the Supreme Court ruled that it was unconstitutional to arrest a man who wore a “F*ck the Draft” t-shirt into a courthouse. The case was called Cohen vs. California.
I’m sure the new line-up at the Supreme Court would now rule much differently.

So anyway, what they did to Cindy Sheehan yesterday was just part and parcel of the new post-9/11 Neocon fascist control. I’m sure some of us will get used to it, while people like me, won’t. Ever.

Quote from Bush’s speech:

Every step toward freedom in the world makes our country safer, and so we will act boldly in freedom’s cause.

Liar. He doesn’t believe in freedom or freedom’s cause. None of the Neocons do. Capitol police proved what they actually believe in just prior to his empty and meaningless speech.

From her blog:

What Really Happened
by Cindy Sheehan

Dear Friends,

As most of you have probably heard, I was arrested before the State of the Union Address tonight.

I am speechless with fury at what happened and with grief over what we have lost in our country.

There have been lies from the police and distortions by the press. (Shocker) So this is what really happened:

This afternoon at the People’s State of the Union Address in DC where I was joined by Congresspersons Lynn Woolsey and John Conyers, Ann Wright, Malik Rahim and John Cavanagh, Lynn brought me a ticket to the State of the Union Address. At that time, I was wearing the shirt that said: 2245 Dead. How many more?

After the PSOTU press conference, I was having second thoughts about going to the SOTU at the Capitol. I didn’t feel comfortable going. I knew George Bush would say things that would hurt me and anger me and I knew that I couldn’t disrupt the address because Lynn had given me the ticket and I didn’t want to be disruptive out of respect for her. I, in fact, had given
the ticket to John Bruhns who is in Iraq Veterans Against the War. However, Lynn’s office had already called the media and everyone knew I was going to be there so I sucked it up and went.

I got the ticket back from John, and I met one of Congresswoman Barbara Lee’s staffers in the Longworth Congressional Office building and we went to the Capitol via the undergroud tunnel. I went through security once, then had to use the rest room and went through security again.

My ticket was in the 5th gallery, front row, fourth seat in. The person who in a few minutes was to arrest me, helped me to my seat.

I had just sat down and I was warm from climbing 3 flights of stairs back up from the bathroom so I unzipped my jacket. I turned to the right to take my left arm out, when the same officer saw my shirt and yelled; “Protester.” He then ran over to me, hauled me out of my seat and roughly (with my hands behind my back) shoved me up the stairs. I said something like “I’m going, do you have to be so rough?” By the way, his name is Mike Weight.

The officer ran with me to the elevators yelling at everyone to move out of the way. When we got to the elevators, he cuffed me and took me outside to await a squad car. On the way out, someone behind me said, “That’s Cindy Sheehan.” At which point the officer who arrested me said: “Take these steps slowly.” I said, “You didn’t care about being careful when you were dragging me up the other steps.” He said, “That’s because you were protesting.” Wow,
I get hauled out of the People’s House because I was, “Protesting.”

I was never told that I couldn’t wear that shirt into the Congress. I was never asked to take it off or zip my jacket back up. If I had been asked to do any of those things…I would have, and written about the suppression of my freedom of speech later. I was immediately, and roughly (I have the bruises and muscle spasms to prove it) hauled off and arrested for “unlawful
conduct.”

After I had my personal items inventoried and my fingers printed, a nice Sgt. came in and looked at my shirt and said, “2245, huh? I just got back from there.”

I told him that my son died there. That’s when the enormity of my loss hit me. I have lost my son. I have lost my First Amendment rights. I have lost the country that I love. Where did America go? I started crying in pain.

What did Casey die for? What did the 2244 other brave young Americans die for? What are tens of thousands of them over there in harm’s way for still? For this? I can’t even wear a shrit that has the number of troops on it that George Bush and his arrogant and ignorant policies are responsible for killing.

I wore the shirt to make a statement. The press knew I was going to be there and I thought every once in awhile they would show me and I would have the shirt on. I did not wear it to be disruptive, or I would have unzipped my jacket during George’s speech. If I had any idea what happens to people who wear shirts that make the neocons uncomfortable that I would be
arrested…maybe I would have, but I didn’t.

There have already been many wild stories out there.

I have some lawyers looking into filing a First Amendment lawsuit against the government for what happened tonight. I will file it. It is time to take our freedoms and our country back.

I don’t want to live in a country that prohibits any person, whether he/she has paid the ulitmate price for that country, from wearing, saying, writing, or telephoning any negative statements about the government. That’s why I am going to take my freedoms and liberties back. That’s why I am not going to let Bushco take anything else away from me…or you.

I am so appreciative of the couple of hundred of protesters who came to the jail while I was locked up to show their support….we have so much potential for good…there is so much good in so many people.

Four hours and 2 jails after I was arrested, I was let out. Again, I am so upset and sore it is hard to think straight.

Keep up the struggle…I promise you I will too.

Love and peace soon,
Cindy

I swear that Cindy must be on the republican payroll. She’s done more harm to the left than good. She’s like that crazy aunt that tells everyone about her cats. There are other ways to protest.

Leftist extremist hysteria. If dissent were actually illegal then millions of anti-American Leftists would be taken into custody. I wonder if Leftists can actually frame an arguement honestly … frankly I doubt it.

And Jack whines that because her son, who was an adult volunteer in the military, died while on duty that she has a right to a national platform whenever she wants.

Frankly she has no honest platform but she will be fully exploited by anti-establishment and anti-American interests.

John,

Thank you putting the letter on this blog. It has reinforced all the Republican points.

Charlie:

“What would you do if you were getting married and your soon-to-be husband or wife insisted on wearing burlap bags instead of traditional garb? It would be most embarassing.”

What would be so embarrassing about wearing Burlap Bags what it’s not a wedding if you’re not wearing some $5000.00 wedding dress that you might puke on or a rented tuxedo?

Talk about far reaching right wing wackos.

Personally I don’t think she should have been removed for wearing the T-shirt BUT SHE SHOULD HAVE BEEN TOLD TO COVER IT UP OR SHE WOULD HAVE TO LEAVE, because I do belive it was probably an ill fated attempt on her part to make a mockery of the proceedings which was and would have been wrong. As a touted liberal I happen to think a modicum of decency should be given to the office of the President regardless of the fact that the guy that is in there is a MORON who only cares about what he lines his pockets with all the while spewing his vial crap on national TV.

I don’t believe her free speech was violated either but her pride was violated by her own doing. She should have used the opportunity to prove she was just what she claims she is a concerned parent. After the speech she could have done whatever she pleased and commanded a whole lot more of the spotlight if she played her cards right. It’s a missed opportunity at worst. Bush camp did not violate her right to free speech people, get over that one.

Thanks john. I might have to re-evaluate my thoughts on this, especially if Mike Weight really did jump up and shout “protester”

I don’t give a damn about Sheehan Mrs Alito personally but leave it to you guys to deny that she isn’t being propped up by the fanaticial left right…which she proudly serves now as its poster girl. Check out Mike Moore’s O’Reilly’s site..her father confessor and intellectual(?) pimp.

He say jump,she says,How high?
…
Cheap politicial trick by her and two bit California Congess woman Senatorwho gave her the ticket kiss up.

By the way,exactly where was the liberal lionhammer last night?

Your collective silence is deafing.

Posted by: sicilianeagle at February 1, 2006 02:15 PM

I’m not a big fan of Cindy Sheehan. I do not believe her explanation. However, the loss of her son is going to stay with her for the rest of her life. The voluntary military comes from families like hers, and she should be treated with respect.

I did not watch the SOTU. When I read the preliminary report I started laughing. “Here we have a serious problem: America is addicted to oil, which is often imported from unstable parts of the world.” DUH! Our president is a joke.

This is from an article on cnn. Here is the link.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/01/31/sheehan.arrest/index.html?section=cnn_topstories

Is this republicans picking on republicans or could it be that democrats are guilty of the same thing. It can’t be true.

“House rules bar demonstrations in the galleries.

On Wednesday, U.S. Rep. Bill Young, R-Florida, spoke on the House floor saying his wife, Beverly, had been “ordered to leave” the gallery during the speech for wearing a shirt that said, “Support Our Troops.”

As noted previously, Beverly Young (wife of C.W. Bill, chairman of the House Defense Appropriations subcommittee) was also removed for a support our troops t-shirt. This doesn’t explain why Sheehan was actually cited with a misdemeanor, however. Whatever the reason, both should have been allowed to stay, assuming that they sat politely and did not disrupt the speech.

(#1) People wanted to demonstrate with banners and t-shirt logos at Clinton’s State of the Unions but they were not allowed because of the rules of the House of Reps. Ahh, the mindless forgetfulness of history from my beloved liberal friends …

(#2) Maybe if Cindy didn’t abandon her son and leave him for his father to raise for political ambitions … and maybe if she didn’t then use her abandoned son’s death to further her political ambitions … maybe she wouldn’t be feeling so much anxiety now.

(#3) Oh, but I’m sure her dead son looks down on her visit to the Communist Chavez with great pride … NOT!!!!!!

All & Especially Sicilian

There are once again two Jacks on this thread. I am Jack the conservative, polite and clever. The other Jack is not. Sorry for any misconceptions.

I think I will change my name to Jacek

Cindy was arrested for ‘Unlawful conduct’. Again, last i heard ‘House rules’ are not laws. That’s a disconnect.

Mrs. Bill (Young) was reported as yelling to the officers that asked her to leave the floor. She was reported to be yelling about supporting the troops, not protesting. Yet, she was not arrested.

When you compare the two, Cindy didn’t resist and was arrested; Mrs. Young resisted and wasn’t arrested. That’s a disconnect.

Again, the last i heard, T-shirts and the wearing of messages on t-shirts were not illegal. Weren’t people wearing ribbons on their lapels before to show their support for the troops?

The outward display of a message is not uncommon in the chamber.

Mrs. Bill (Young) was reported as yelling to the officers that asked her to leave the floor.

On CBS Newsradio this morning, they said that she called the officers IDIOTS.

THE ULTIMATE QUESTION:

Is this what the nation should be discussing right now?!!?!?!?

Come on! This is so stupid I can’t see straight. War, deficit, poverty, prescription drug coverage - health care… Are we’re all going on and on about women in t-shirts being arrested. Sorry if I fail to see how removing booth rationalizes either removal. (I don’t think the wife was arrested, but you generally don’t arrest a Representative’s wife if you hope to retire some day.)

The point for me: Stop and Think! (from a educational video for K-2 students I’m producing…) hint: don’t arrest you political foe near TV crews if you can help it - especially for something as American as a protest t-shirt.

Dave

Congress didn’t make any law abridging her right. We all know it is absurd to equate freedom of speech with freedom to speak anywhere at any time. What “Mother Sheehan” was trying to do was create a provocation. It is part of the fascist tool kit of which she is a now a part. She has the right to speak and I saw her try near the Capitol some time back. She drew a crowd or old guys who probably thought they were protesting the Vietnam War, plus the usual winos that hang around the streets.

Speaking of those winos, I bet a lot of them would like to have their say during the State of the Union. How come they can’t? I bet many of them would make more sense than Sheehan. She has fallen off the deep end in her hatred for the President.

Frankly, I want to call attention to Cindy Sheehan. Maybe you don’t see why. Just as well. I bet you also think Howard Dean is effective (for your side).

Shorter Sicilian Eagle (and oh my heavens, the doubtless unintended irony of the big-beaked, squawking, all-looks-no-substance Italian bird kills me):

“After 9/11, I became outraged by Chappaquiddick.”

Dude, your illiterate bullet points and ad hominem garbage is just tired. You call for decorum AND mooning in the same sentence, real compelling stuff.

If all we libs have to worry about is “sharks like you eating her up,” then I think we’re in a great place. You got no game, Beagle.

so much for the kinder gentler SE

as far as the ‘rules of the house’ go:

I was hired 11 years ago to tape (pro bono for his family) a special session to honor a Congressman who was killed in a car wreck. House rules ban all taping on the floor except for new media, which I was not. The House security came up to discuss this with me (after someone in the media there lodged a complaint.) The Speaker of the House came up and asked me what I was doing. Went I explained, we gave it 3 seconds of thoughts and then thanked me and left. Done deal - and everyone went home happy.

That was a classy way to handle the situation.

sorry - that should read ‘news media’

If I was Casey Sheehan I would be rolling in my grave now and wishing that I had been put up for adoption.

Great post Adrienne,

Maybe it would be best if we censored Bush:

2001 - We need to open ANWAR
2002 - We need to open ANWAR
2003 - We need to open ANWAR
2004 - We need to open ANWAR
2005 - We need to open ANWAR
2006 - We need to get off our addiction to oil

2001 - join me in setting a tone of civility and respect in Washington
2004 - Some in this chamber, and in our country, did not support the liberation of Iraq…We also hear doubts that democracy is a realistic goal for the Middle East…it is mistaken, and condescending
2006 - There is no honor in retreat…the false comfort of isolationism

And as for his implying that wiretapping would have prevented Sep 11, I am not shocked but still disgusted.

But he has been consistent on two things - his request for tax credits so the poor can buy health insurance (too laughable to merit a response) and his call to end the double taxation of corporate dividends, a policy that so favors the wealthy that only the staunchest conservatives call for it.

May Providence save us from this insane administration, hell bent on making their mark in history and remaking America in their image, at any cost.

Tony

In your case, you also were being classy. Cindy Sheehan was send by her handlers to provoke and she would have done that. She is not classy. She was trying to create political theater. I am glad we didn’t have to watch.

Sicilianeagle, are you accusing MoveOn.Com of spreading rancor and hatred? What spreads more “rancor and hatred” than invading a country on the basis that there is a slight chance that they may have WMDs? In case you haven’t noticed, people in Iraq are not exactly delighted with us at this point.
Also, what are you people talking about, “Casey Sheehan must be turning in his grave?” Has it not occured to you that he may be happy that his mother loves him and is questioning Bush about why he had to die? That she is willing to go so far for him?

“If I was Casey Sheehan I would be rolling in my grave now and wishing that I had been put up for adoption.”

And this is some how honoring his death and sacrafice? I don’t see it.

Jack (the conservative)

Bravo for you.No offense intended.

Arr-Squared

Based on the comments that the mighty Eagle gets every time he posts on this side…he does have game…as he gets blood pressure up from coast to coast..

Other than insulting me,you said nothing of substance.

Adrienne
Congratulations…making the connection between a t-shirt and the Patriot Act……..how about connecting a hamburger and the Wirt-tapping law next…or a nice glass of merlot with the Social Security Act……your imagination surely can connect those dots….

Clair

Yes I am.Move on should be flushed down the toilet.
Try something new.

“CARACAS, Venezuela (AP) - January 28, 2006 - Cindy Sheehan, the peace activist who set up camp near President Bush’s Texas ranch last summer, said Saturday she is considering running against Sen. Dianne Feinstein.”

by CindySheehan
Wed Dec 28, 2005 at 02:07:09 PM PDT

“This was also the year that we also began to hold such Republicans in Democratic clothing like: Hillary Clinton, Joe Lieberman, Joe Biden, and Diane Feinstein (list is my no means all inclusive) accountable for their support of what George is doing in Iraq. When we as Democrats elect our leaders we expect them to reject and loudly repudiate the murderous and corrupt policies of this administration: not support and defend them.”

Cindy PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE Run.

We need more good liberals like you and Ted Kennedy in the Senate. We jsut don’t get enough good sound bites out of Ted. Besides one person with verbal diarrhea is comical, two of you and people might actually start paying attention. This would be a gift to the Republican campaign staff of immeasurable worth.

SicEagle, the rounds of applause were a demonstration of support for the President. The Democrats round of applause for mentioning his failed attempt to eliminate Soc. Sec. was also a demonstration against the President. His speech was interrupted dozens of times by demonstration called applause.

So, your point falls flat that Cindy’s T-shirt didn’t belong. Her T-Shirt would not have interrupted the President’s speech. Her T-Shirt was less demonstration that the Democrats applause for his mention of Soc. Sec.

Sorry, this is abridgement of the 1st Amendment within the halls of our own Congress. Pure and Simple. And I for one, hope to hell Cindy sues the government over it.

David
You missed the point.Sheehan has a right to wear a t-shirt,I agree…what I don’t agree is her being used as a prop by the left at the State of the Union.

She has become a characature of lunacy,pure and simple

I thought we were fighting for freedom and decomcracy around the world.
It is so sad that we bash a fallen solders mother when she speaks out and she doesn’t agree or follow party lines of the president.
You want too sensor her voice: shame on you! How do you know she was going to do anything to disrupt the president speech.It seems to me you convicted her before anything happened. If you don’t like what she has to say than don’t listen or voice your own opinion. Thats your choice. But don’t surppress hers.
Doesn’t it seem like the republicans like to bash or surpress our vet, of war. McCain, Powel, Kerry and Murtha.
Bush’s sotu said (paragragh 22) A nation now held hostage by a small clerical elite that is isolating and repressing it’s people. Who is he talking about. It’s starting to sound like us instead of Iran. I guess some of you would like it to be like N.Republic of Vietnam or Republic of China where the people have to stand up and applaud loudly for 5 minutes or more. If you want a pep rally go to a High school rally. Ra Ra Re KIck’m in the knee, Ra Ra Ras Kick’m in the ass. There’s my cheer.

It would be a wise move to report this episode in its entire truth. Cindy was arrested because she refused to leave quietly, not because she was wearing a T-shirt.

Being selective with the facts doesn’t help this matter.

Ms Sheehan is not being manipulated by anyone, she is a willing partner and has become a loud voice for her cause. What good would it do for her to shun those who share her opinions?

However, I like her methods, she counts on the Bushtapo to do the wrong thing every time. And they do.

Charges dropped anyway, and Mrs. Young got an apology.

Cindy Sheehan has achieved her purpose—to get noticed. Now noticed once again, she will surely draw the respect of some and the ire of others.

Is she honoring her son’s legacy, or his wishes? We will never know. We do know that he served his country, and re-enlisted of his own free will. That would not indicate a dissatisfaction with his service for his country. Ms. Sheehan’s family disagrees with her stance and does not support her goals. Their loss is the same as hers—perhaps their silence speaks just as loudly as her protesting.

The Senate Chamber is not the place for such protesting. Her freedom of speech was not taken away, any more than someone who yells “fire” in a theatre. Those wishing for her to sue, or for this to become a bigger issue, are really just trying to find a stupid bandwagon to jump on to. Its really idiotic.

SicEagle, Bush has become just such a caricature too, but, I didn’t see anyone barring his entry to the House.

“Its really idiotic.”

i supported her efforts initially, however, i must agree that she seems to be somewhat excessive. i consider this yet more political maneuvering, but not ‘idiotic’. i don’t know the full details of this latest episode, but if she was attempting to disrupt the proceedings (by means other than wearing a t-shirt), then it was wise to remove her. otherwise joe,

“Their loss is the same as hers—perhaps their silence speaks just as loudly as her protesting.
The Senate Chamber is not the place for such protesting. Her freedom of speech was not taken away, any more than someone who yells “fire†in a theatre.”

i agree.

Hello all,
Not much to say this time. I really don’t see too much in the way of intelligent arguments. Apparently, anyone who disagrees withthe Bush Regime is a leftist radical. Bush is so far to the right that Eisenhower would look like a leftist.
It does strike me as quite ironic (shocking, demoralizing, and sad) that the citizens of this country are strong-armed into giving up our freedoms in the name of promoting freedom and “democracy” in the world. Let them try a real democracy. What we have has been prostituted for the profits of multinational corporations who fire American workers and exploit third world innocents.

So, is it an oligarchal plutocracy, or a plutocratic oligarchy? Or maybe we’re going straight to fascism.

Patrick, why was she asked to leave in the first place. Saying she refused to leave quietly doesn’t address the issue. I would not have left quietly either if I had a right to be there, as she did, as guest of a representative.

Sheehan’s very presence has become a magnet to pull the obscene and unconstitutional intent right out of conservatives for all to see in the headlines. May Cindy’s presence ever be felt where conservatives congregate, for she serves the same purpose as a jew entering a congregation of Gestapo and SS. Their response is intolerable, and allows the world to see them for what they really are. Enemies of all who are not of their kind.

Wearing a T-shirt that disagrees with political ideals and yelling fire in a theater are in no way similar. Not same city, ballpark, nor sport.

LOL…All the dissent-crushers had to do was ignore her. Instead they took the Bat-signal and shined it on her. Shit, she got as much after speech coverage as Bush.

Yelling fire in a theater can and will cause a stampede of panicked people looking for an exit. Crushing, killing, and injuring many in the process.

How are they the same?

CPAdams, thanks.

David Remer, last post, nail on the head.

My Pet Goat, yours too.

Sic Eagle, nice troll-work.

“Its really idiotic”.

There’s worse things to be as your post demonstrate on a consistent basis, but keep coming back, I need a reminder of what I could have been every now and then.

One other thing,
Much has been said about the sanctity of the chamber. I agree with exercising decorum and acting civil. But, when the President can lie so shamelessly at a time when he is required to deliver a report about the state of our nation,do rules have much meaning? Watching last night I was wishing someone could throw something(like Bush’s ass out of office). We’re supposed to sit politely through this crap. Some of you will reference Bill Clinton’s battle with the truth. Seems to me He lied to save his reputation and honor of his family. Bush and his henchmen lie to scare Americans into handing over the balance of power so that they may profit from war mongering. Bill lied about screwing Lewinski, Bush lies about screwing us.

SERFS_UP@msn.com

Billy Bob, nope, we are heading straight toward an anti-incumbency movement in this country that has not been seen before. In the past anti-incumbent votes were for the opposition party. This one coming is going to be truly anti-incumbent, meaning against incumbents regardless of party.

In the end, we will have politicians who work for us and the nation again, instead of for the wealthy power brokers, lobbyists, and campaign donors.

“Bill lied about screwing Lewinski, Bush lies about screwing us.”

i’m sorry, nothing significant to say. i just felt that needed to be repeated; in fact, that phrase deserves to be put on a license plate.

..er… bumper sticker (it’s hard to blog while laughing).

Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.
Benjamin Franklin

Oh geesh, is this how low it has gotten? This is the extent of political debate in the US, the equivalent of two schoolyard kids kicking sand at each other?

Seriously, both sides on this one have made me weep for the future of our society.

Sheehan was asked to leave. So was another. Both for wearing t-shirts with printed messages on them, something that is not allowed in the chamber and never has been. Neither are signs, poster, plackards, etc. The simple reason is that in the hall the focus is suppose to be on the debate going on at the podium, not be distracted by cheap political slogans strewn throughout the hall. Imagine if everyone with a political ‘bent’ brought in their own signs, t-shirts and slogans? It would be a cacophony of nonsense and even LESS would be getting done than now.

No, she should not have been arrested. She should have been asked to leave, that is it. If she had just covered up her shirt there is no way to be sure she wouldn’t ‘whip it out’ in the middle of the speech when trying to remove her would have been an even worse disruption. But I don’t see a reason to arrest her unless she got disruptive, refused to leave or threw a hissy for not being allowed to go back in.

But to make this about ‘free speech’ is one of the most disgusting ploys I’ve seen and cheapens real suppression of dissent that exists throughout the world. No one has a right to say anything they want, anywhere at any time, we all know and agree to that. And obviously no one is shutting up Cindy, she just keeps going on and on and on and on…

And can we PLEASE stop talking about Cindy Sheehan? I know I asked this about six months ago, but come on already, any notion that she is worth the 15 minutes she has blown through now should be burned into nothingness by now, even to the most partisan of either side who can’t think without their party holding their hand.

It’s enough to make a man weep.

Actually, I like to talk about Cindy Sheehan. I admit that I find her annoying and stupid, but I like that she is the face of the anti-war opposition.

If all the opposition can muster is someone like Sheehan, if we can keep on seeing her with the likes of Hugo and Ramsey Clark I think that is just great.

A couple of times in the past when folks were going on that “get rid of all incombents” jag I pointed out that I was very happy with my congresswoman. Right now I have never been prouder of her. I am talking about Lynn Woolsey, theCongresswoman that gave Mrs. Sheehan her ticket. She has been against the war from the beginnig and so has her district. Shes probably getting deluged by hate mail at this point so please send her an atta girl and maybe some financial help for her upcomming election. She she is very popular here and if anything this will help. Yes there are anti-war,solidly Democratic districts.
As for you Rush-head neo-con interlopers you should definetly do all you can to support whoever the Reps can throw against her. Send them lots and lots of money,even if that means not sending money to other candidates. Heck,sell your house and cars and send all proceeds to try to defeat her. Maybe you could give 100$ or so to every voter here to vote against her. Its illegal but you could say its for national security so its legal. I am sure Alito would back you up. You can do it. Teach us communist,homo,pinko,n——r lovin liberal cowards a lesson.

sicilianeagle,

You wrote:

It wasn’t Cindy Sheehan there.

It was a manipulated Cindy there.

A Cindy Sheehan who has been manipulated from the get go by Move On .Org and others bent on sowing rancor and hatred.

That is your opinion - but lets just assume that you are right - what has that got to do with issue? Since when is it illegal to wear a tee shirt? Since when is it illegal to quietly and peacefully express your views? It would have been more interesting if she had not been wearing a tee shirt but I did not see this anyhow because I was at a protest against the Bush Regime. And I do not have time to discuss the issue now because I need to attempt to finish a home remodeling project in the hopes of attending another protest in Washington this Saturday. For people who are interested in protesting, details are available at www.worldcantwait.net

Ray, you need to read…

No public political messages are allowed in the house chamber because the attention is suppose to be on the discourse at the podium. A supporter of the war was told to leave as well.

She was not prevented from saying anything, she was actually given more of a voice from her efforts. Had she actually followed the rules as they are written (or had the ability to understand them or understand they include her as well) then she wouldn’t have worn the shirt to the speech. There was no violation of free speech, trust me I would have been one of the first ones pointing it out if there were.

Please, keep protesting all you want. But keep your hysterics out of the area of reasoned debate, ok?

Dear Taliban Tony,
Are you at it again, everyone has the right to freely speak, not the right to freely speak without consequences. Be American, be Republican. Democrats are losers.
With Love,
William

“Teach us communist,homo,pinko,n——r lovin liberal cowards a lesson.”

*smack* - but seriously, one good politician among a multitude of thieving, lying, criminals does not a government make.

“Be American, be Republican. Democrats are losers.”

yes, and republicans are liars - which *you* might argue is american, but you would be wrong (again).

be american, think for yourself.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/02/01/sheehan.arrest/index.html

Yes, Communist, Homos, etc….
I’m thinking for myself, your the one quoting. Even your lord and savior bill clinton said there were WMD’s, is this what you are refering to? Flip Kerry said the same thing! What other “lies”?

Play nice tony

William, knock off the character assasination remarks like “Taliban Tony” or, you will lose your privilege to participate here.

Tony, your flame-baiting comments will continue to be deleted, as they are no longer welcome here.

Sheehan’s right of free speech wasn’t violated. She has repeatedly expressed her contempt for America, as is her right. By entering the House chamber she agreed to abide by the rules of conduct within. When she violated the code of decency she was properly removed. Of course, such behavior is to be expected from a no-class anti American rabble rouser like her.(calling her anti American is based on statements she has made, not on opposition to Bush.) Her son must be spinning in his grave.

Pray tell, steve, where are those rules of decency for visitors posted? I have never seen them. Please enlighten. In fact, I never even saw a dress code? Where is that located steve?

Are you aware that a Representatives wife who supports the IRaq war and war a t-shirt supporting our troops and the war was ALSO ejected? How does that make you feel?

You can’t say anything bad about this woman. Sure, some of her actions are controversial, but she does have her 1st ammendment rights.

Should she have worn the shirt? No, probably not. But when some of you resort to calling her names, that’s ridiculous. She lost her son. That’s a mothers worst nightmare.

If I lost my son I would feel the same way, especially if it was for being in a war the United States had no right to be in.

You can dislike what she is doing all you want. But don’t say anything about her as a person or her being brainwashed.

“Even your lord and savior bill clinton said there were WMD’s, is this what you are refering to?”

how very presumptuous. must i attach an (I) to my name in order for you to abandon your useless assumptions? i am quoting because you have said nothing worthy of comment. your automatic assumption that because i disagree with you i must be a democrat simply proves the nature of your opinion on this or any other issue; pre-programmed.

bush says he has broken no law. he has. it’s a fact. he says he wishes to protect our freedom, but in order to do so we must sacrifice our freedom. this is simply a paradoxical lie. fighting-freedom rather than freedom-fighting. liberated from the perils of freedom. oxymoron.

he declares that he is spreading freedom throughout the world…but one can not give what one does not possess. the question is not,

“What other “lies”?” yet instead, ‘has there been anything but’?

and by the way,

“Yes, Communist, Homos, etc….
I’m thinking for myself.”

i couldn’t let that one pass. thinking for yourself, but not straining any muscles in the process, i see.

your association of democrats with communists, homos, etc., is unlikely to garner much favor when posting on the democrat blog, so i must assume you are here merely to agitate. feel free to respond; however, i must inform you that, for me, this conversation ends now.

Camelboy, within reason, I see nothing wrong with saying things “about her as a person.”

Especially when she has a great many very nasty things to say about other people and never misses an opportunity to do so. You can’t come onto the public stage and attack people as harshly as Sheehan does and expect to be immune from taking any criticism yourself.

She even calls Hillary Clinton, of all people, a warmonger. And what does she about the vast majority in the military who support the Iraq effort—that they’re brainwashed.

She’s been dishing this stuff out for many months now, and at this point we’ve all heard what Cindy Sheehan to say.

Ever think that any of the other mothers who have lost sons in Iraq and who support the war, including those Iraqi mothers who lost sons to the tyranny of Saddam Hussein are ever going to have hundreds of cameras, and microphones shoved in their races like Sheehan has? Of course not.

Sheehan has every right to run around the country expressing her views and embarrassing the Democrats who once supported her but for whom now she directs such vitriol.

Can’t wait to sit back and watch Sheehan’s Senate campaign against Feinstein. I hope there’ll be a debate between her and Feinstein—that would be something to see.

We already had the obligatory out of context Franklin quote, so please don’t do it again.

We all willingly give up some rights to live in society. We don’t have an absolute right to speech. Most people wanted to listen to the president speak. A crazy woman in the gallery is an imposition. People like Cindy Sheehan who think they have the right to disrupt offend me. My interpretation of the Constitution is that it does not protect that speech she was trying to do. I am not a legal scholar, but the Supreme Court tends to agree with me. Our definition of rights changes with the times. Slippery slopes are good for skiing, but they are over used as analogies.

We sometimes forget the other side of the speech equation. If the Cindy Sheehan’s disrupt civil debate, WE can’t have one. And when you disrupt civil debate you degenerate into anarchy or tyranny. So the irony is that if you push free expression far enough you lose it.

Today I was running near the Capitol I saw a bunch of people making noise and blowing whistles. I don’t know what they were complaining about and I really didn’t care, but I didn’t care for them straddling my running trail. They were exercising their right of free speech. I ran through their group and put some of them off their stride. They complained. Of course, I was just exercising my right to free speech (as they define it - marching). You see it is kind of a degeneration. I enjoyed the confrontation more than they did, but neither of us was engaged in a real debate.

Speech is speech. Theater is a matter of opinion.

steve:
“By entering the House chamber she agreed to abide by the rules of conduct within. When she violated the code of decency she was properly removed.”

Nope. She violated no rules of conduct or decency, and she was improperly removed. Here are a few quotes from abi’s CNN link, since you didn’t bother to read it:

On Wednesday afternoon, U.S. Capitol Police Chief Terrance Gainer said neither woman should have been removed from the chamber. “We made a mistake,” he told CNN.

“Just wearing a T-shirt is not unlawful,” Gainer said. Wearing a T-shirt and engaging in actions meant to draw attention to the shirt is against the law, he said, but neither woman was doing so.

Gainer said he has attempted to reach Sheehan to tell her he is recommending that charges be dropped and to express his willingness to talk to her at her convenience, but has only been able to leave her a message.

“Since when is free speech conditional on whether you agree with the president?” Woolsey said in a statement issued Wednesday.

“Cindy Sheehan, who gave her own flesh and blood for this disastrous war, did not violate any rules of the House of Representatives,” Woolsey’s statement said. “She merely wore a shirt that highlighted the human cost of the Iraq war and expressed a view different than that of the president.”

I think this is a good example of the kind of confusion that results (and that we can expect will continue,) from the unconstitutional abridgment of our rights from Bushco’s Patriot Act(s), said the liberal lady with a belligerent glare from the confines of a “free speech zone”. 8^/

Dissent is still legal. Its idiocy that should be a criminal offence. If it was all you Democrats would have to keep your mouths shut.

Adrienne, since two people expressing completely opposite views were removed from the chamber for their t-shirts, its pretty far-fetched to start connecting this to the Patriot Act or saying that any specific political view was being singled out.

As to the Patriot Act being “Bushco’s” have a look at who voted for it originally and who have now voted to extend it for six more weeks. The Patriot Act is not an act of the executive. It is, so far, an overwhelmingly bi-partisan act of our duly elected Congress.

I tend to agree that something political on a T-shirt shouldn’t be enough grounds for tossing somebody out, and the Capitol Police seem to agree and admit they made an error. Fine.

In my opinion, it’s pretty tacky to wear any kind of T-shirt, even a totally apolitical one, to the State of the Union address, but whatever… some people are just tacky and tackiness isn’t against the law.

As for why Sheehan was charged and the other individual wasn’t, the first reports I read about the episode said that Sheehan wasn’t cooperating with officers and became verbally abusive, calling them idiots.

Again, that isn’t necessarily illegal, but it explains why one person was charged and one wasn’t. Policemen don’t normally take well to being called names, and they’re usually the ones who make the decision on whether or not to file charges. I’m not saying they were right to do so, but it makes sense and doesn’t necessarily have anything to do with Sheehan’s politics.

I’ve been pulled over a number of times by the traffic cops, and have found that being respectful and cooperative gives one a pretty good chance of avoiding a ticket or getting off with something relatively minor. I can only imagine what I’d have been charged with if instead of being respectful I started calling the officers names.

The fact is that the constitution states that freedom is a right given to everyone EVERYWHERE. Not just where it’s convenient for political leaders.

There have been instances where protesters have been arrested for not staying in a “free speech zone.” Which is ridiculous because as far as I knew ALL of America is a Free Speech Zone. And all they wanted is for their message to be heard, and it’s not likely going to when the “free speech zone is 4 blocks away from the event you’re protesting. These people are being arrested because they are a political threat, under the pretense of being a “security threat” or “behaving unlawfully.” I find this to violate our civil rights, which give us the right to free speech and peaceful protest.

Bush has been limiting free speech since 2003. At presidential events around the country, the Secret Service discriminated against protesters in violation of their free speech rights. Anti-Bush Protesters were moved far away from officials while Bush supporters were allowed to remain closer; or everyone expressing any point of view sent to a ” free speech zone,” commonly too far away to even been seen or heard by the politicians or media.

It’s not like they could say that it was because they were concerned about the President’s security, because anyone wanting to could have just carried a pro-bush sign.

See ACLU for more info.

It seems to me that the whole time Bush has been in office his agenda has been about limiting freedom. On May 21st, 1999 he actually said: “There ought to be limits to freedom.”

He’s made it obvious he sees dissent as unpatriotic. (Thomas Jefferson disagreed; he said dissent was the HIGHEST form of patriotism.) He doesn’t believe in a woman’s right to choose. He seems to think all Americans should be Christian. He assumes he’s above the law and can spy on American citizens. That’s freedom of speech, choice, religion and to live our lives in private and in peace.

What happened to the oath “I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.?”
The Constitution Reads:
1st. Amendment) Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
4th Amendment) The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Just my opinion… But I’ll get off of my soapbox now.

Sanger,

“As for why Sheehan was charged and the other individual wasn’t, the first reports I read about the episode said that Sheehan wasn’t cooperating with officers and became verbally abusive, calling them idiots.”

I’m not aware of any “news” reports stating anything other than the fact that she “ignored” those that confronted her. Who reported that she became abusive?

KansasDem

Sanger:

Actually, it was the congressman’s wife who called them idiots.

David,

“Are you aware that a Representatives wife who supports the IRaq war and war a t-shirt supporting our troops and the war was ALSO ejected? How does that make you feel?”

As she should have been. House Rules forbid these things Pro or Con in the House Chambers. Break the rules suffer the consequences.

Elise, you cannot cite—because it’s not there—where the Consitution says that “freedom is a right given to everyone EVERYWHERE.”

That’s just not true. Saying that it’s in the Constitution doesn’t make it so.

Everybody has a right to express their opinions, but the time and place where it happens, especially when it involves public places and government buildings, can be restricted in all kinds of ways, and this is nothing new.

You can bash Bush on the internet, in your workplace or in the media to your heart’s content, and you have every right to do so.

You cannot, however, stand on a ladder and shout the same opinions into the President’s bedroom from the White House lawn.

You or I can attend a jury trial. Does that mean that we can attend a trial and wear T-shirts or wave banners that say “John Smith is INNOCENT!”

Or for that matter, “Johh Smith is GUILTY—HANG HIM!”

Can you imagine what kinds of circuses would result if your standard of absolute and total freedom of speech at all times were the rule?

To demonstrate, there are times when you need a permit, and it’s common sense that at at times any one group’s demonstration needs to be removed to a distance where it doesn’t infringe on the rights of other groups to excercise their own free speech.

The next time a Democrat is elected president, there will be all kinds of people who’d love nothing more to stand in the front row during his/her Inaugural Address waving placards and chanting slogans. But they will be FORBIDDEN from doing so because that is not the time or place. And it’s entirely appropriate that they will be forbidden from doing so.

Charges against antiwar protester Cindy Sheehan, who was arrested after an incident involving a T-shirt she wore to the State of the Union address, will be dropped, officials told NBC News Wednesday.

U.S. Capitol Police took Sheehan away in handcuffs and charged her with unlawful conduct, a misdemeanor, when she showed up to President Bush’s address Tuesday night wearing a shirt that read, “2245 Dead. How many more?” — a reference to the number of soldiers killed in Iraq.

But Capitol Police will ask the U.S. attorney’s office to drop the charges, NBC News’ Mike Viqueira reported Wednesday.

“We screwed up,” a top Capitol Police official said, speaking on condition of anonymity.

He said Sheehan didn’t violate any rules or laws.

Sheehan, whose son Casey died in Iraq, was not the only one ejected from the House gallery. The wife of a powerful Republican congressman was also asked to leave, but she was not arrested.

Beverly Young, wife of Rep. C.W. Bill Young of Florida — chairman of the House Defense Appropriations subcommittee — was removed from the gallery because she was wearing a T-shirt that read, “Support the Troops — Defending Our Freedom.”

The Capitol Police official said officers never should have approached Young.

Womanmarine, you’re correct. According to the St. Petersburg Times, it was the other woman who called officers idiots.

It was a very foolish thing for her to say, and I suspect that the reason it didn’t result in charges was because the argument took place in a hallway outside of the chambers after she’d already cooperated with orders to leave.

Sheehan, however, apparently didn’t even respond to the order to leave and had to be placed in handcuffs in order to be removed.

At the end of the day, both were removed—perhaps wrongly—and it doesn’t appear that either is going to be charged with anything.

Personally, I think they should have BOTH been removed but not charged with anything.

If a precedent is set where people are allowed to display slogans during the State of the Union address—no matter who is the President in future years—the place is going to look like a stadium during a college football game.

“If a precedent is set where people are allowed to display slogans during the State of the Union address—no matter who is the President in future years—the place is going to look like a stadium during a college football game.”

- i agree.

perhaps the politicians could take on sponsors, and sport ads for Pepsi and Miller to fund their exponentially escalating campaigns? it would easily fit the current political trend.

sanger:
“Adrienne, since two people expressing completely opposite views were removed from the chamber for their t-shirts,”

Only one was arrested, roughed up and taken off to jail. For no good reason.

“its pretty far-fetched to start connecting this to the Patriot Act or saying that any specific political view was being singled out.”

In my view, the Patriot Act(s) have called many of our previously unquestioned Constitutional freedoms into doubt and will continue to do so.

“As to the Patriot Act being “Bushco’s†have a look at who voted for it originally and who have now voted to extend it for six more weeks.”

Both sides are guilty of voting for something they didn’t even read. That it was passed immediately following 9/11 is not an excuse. Russ Feingold is the only one who read it and did not vote for it — he gets a pass in my book.

“The Patriot Act is not an act of the executive.”

The two primary drafters of the first Patriot Act legislation were Assistant Attorney General Viet D. Dinh and future Secretary of Homeland Security Michael Chertoff. It was indeed an action of the executive.

“It is, so far, an overwhelmingly bi-partisan act of our duly elected Congress.”

Yeah, so what?

“the first reports I read about the episode said that Sheehan wasn’t cooperating with officers and became verbally abusive, calling them idiots.”

The first reports were all wrong, obviously. If she’d been at all uncooperative or abusive, they probably wouldn’t be dropping all of the charges now.

“Again, that isn’t necessarily illegal, but it explains why one person was charged and one wasn’t.”

No, it doesn’t.

“Policemen don’t normally take well to being called names,”

She didn’t. All she did was take off her jacket and they hauled her away.

“I’m not saying they were right to do so, but it makes sense and doesn’t necessarily have anything to do with Sheehan’s politics.”

I think