Democrats & Liberals Archives

Ann Coulter's "War on Kwanzaa"

Poor President Bush just can’t seem to get this holiday thing right. First, he sent out “Holiday” cards instead of Christmas cards and threw the fundamentalists into a tailspin. Now, the President has Ann Coulter up in arms over his 2005 Kwanzaa message in which he states, “African-Americans and people around the world reflect on African heritage during Kwanzaa.”

According to Ann, "Kwanzaa itself is a lunatic blend of schmaltzy '60s rhetoric, black racism and Marxism. Indeed, the seven "principles" of Kwanzaa praise collectivism in every possible arena of life — economics, work, personality, even litter removal. ("Kuumba: Everyone should strive to improve the community and make it more beautiful.")"

So what's wrong with striving to impove the community and making it more beautiful?

Ann even came up with this little racist Kwanzaa Jingle:

(Sing to "Jingle Bells")

Kwanzaa bells, dashikis sell

Whitey has to pay;

Burning, shooting, oh what fun

On this made-up holiday!

Is she for real?

According to the Official Kwanzaa website

Kwanzaa is Celebrated from 26 December thru 1 January, its origins are in the first harvest celebrations of Africa from which it takes its name.

Kwanzaa was created in 1966 by Dr. Maulana Karenga, professor, Department of Black Studies at California State University, Long Beach, author and scholar-activist who stresses the indispensable need to preserve, continually revitalize and promote African American culture.

Karenga obtained his B.A. from City College of Los Angeles. He went on to earn an M.A. and a Ph.D. in political science and then a second Ph.D. in social ethics from the University of California. As a student, Karenga met Malcolm X and was influenced by their discussions of black power and social change.

In 1965 Karenga formed the United Slaves organization in Los Angeles. Between 1965 and 1966 Karenga and United Slaves introduced a theory called Kawaida, a Kiswahili term for tradition and reason. This theory was based on the Nguzo Saba value system and is the basis for Kwanzaa. The roots of Kwanzaa are recorded in ancient Egypt and Nubia African history.

In 1971, he was convicted of felonious assault, related to two women who he believed were spying on the United Slaves. After his release from prison in 1975, Karenga continued his academic studies.

"Now the 'holiday' concocted by an FBI dupe is honored in a presidential proclamation and public schools across the nation." According to Ann, "Bush called Kwanzaa a holiday that promotes 'unity' and 'faith.' Faith in what? Liberals' unbounded capacity to respect any faith but Christianity?"

Except Ann, these celebrations are found in ancient Egypt and Nubia, Ashantiland and Yorubaland civilizations, the Zulu empire, Matabele, Thonga and Lovedu, and all of southeastern Africa. Kwanzaa is not a religious holiday, and is practiced by Africans of all religious faiths, including Christians, who come together to celebrate family, community and culture.

Happy Kwanzaa!

Posted by JayJay Snow at December 30, 2005 3:33 PM
Comments
Comment #109252

If you think that is bad, try this:

I think the government should be spying on all Arabs, engaging in torture as a televised spectator sport, dropping daisy cutters wantonly throughout the Middle East and sending liberals to Guantanamo.
Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at December 30, 2005 5:38 PM
Comment #109254

Twas the night before Kwanzaa and all through the Sphere
All the wingnuts were praying it would disappear
For their very own president said to the nation
That he too respected this new celebration.

Compassionate’s one thing but this went too far
They thought to themselves while out scrounging for tar
They loathed the idea of black african drumming
Somehow they must try to stop Kwanzaa from coming

So they dug up their references and scribbled up notes
And tried to keep all of that bile in their throats
But they couldn’t. It spilled out on all of their pages
In their poison pen poems and raggedy rages

On Mulshin, on Malkin, on Coulter on Shaidle
On Barber, on Frontpage and on Redstate unbridled
The vomitous spew flowed without restraint
Telling all who would listen just what Kwanzaa ain’t

Aint Christian, legitimate, reverent or true
And you know that it surely ain’t red white and blue
Just a sham holiday that some Negroes enjoy
(Hey can we say Negroes? OK, just not ‘boy’)

But their secret weapon was no watermelon
But the hideous fact of Karenga, the felon.
Karenga? Who’s that? Some would bother to ask
Why the black racist commie who started this task

They replied with abandon, back in 66
This FBI stoolie, he tortured some chicks
And shot up some Panthers, though it can’t be proven
This is the moonbat who got Kwanzaa movin’

The Nguzo Saba and all Kwanzaa people
Were crammed in one grinchbag and hung from the steeple
No patriot ever loved Kwanzaa they said
And marched away confident Kwanzaa was dead

Posted by: Cobb at December 30, 2005 5:42 PM
Comment #109255
Kwanzaa was created in 1966 by Dr. Maulana Karenga, professor, Department of Black Studies at California State University, Long Beach, author and scholar-activist who stresses the indispensable need to preserve, continually revitalize and promote African American culture.

So you addmit that Kwanza is a made up holiday. But then so is every other holiday. Funny thing is though, when they started pushing the idea of Kwanzaa they claimed it was an acient African holiday.
While I’ve never paid it much mind I reckon there aint nothing wrong with celibrating it if you want too. Of course yaall better check with Ann first.

Posted by: Ron Brown at December 30, 2005 6:01 PM
Comment #109258

Ron Brown-
Is there a such thing as a natural holiday? Last I heard, they’re all artificial.

Nobody’s forced to celebrate Kwaanza, nobody’s forced to like it. Nobody’s forced to make racist rhymes up.

Nobody can force me not to feel like giving somebody who would make up a rhyme like that a tongue lashing.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at December 30, 2005 6:14 PM
Comment #109259

Kwanzaa was created in 1966 by Dr. Maulana Karenga, professor, Department of Black Studies at California State University, Long Beach?

Hahahahaha, I remember him as Ron Everett from Baltimore Maryiland, a convicted felon.

Boy how things change.

Posted by: Ynot at December 30, 2005 6:16 PM
Comment #109263

Stephen Daugherty
Nobody is forced to celebrate Christmas either. Altough there are folks trying to force people not to. In fact nobody is forced to celibrate any holiday. And nobody should be kept from not celibrating it either.
I don’t like the racist rymes either. It may be their right to mke them up. But it is also my right, and yours, to give them hell for it.
Like I said, I’ve never paid Kawanzaa much mind. I’ve never demeaned anyone that celibrates it either. It’s a choise that those who chose to celibrate it have the right to make. Just like any other holiday.
Before any of yaall Liberials want to make a racist thing out of my not paying Kawanzaa any mind. And I know atleast one of yaall will try. I don’t pay much mind to New Years Day, MLK Day, Ground Hog Day, Presidents Day, St. Patricks Day, April Fools Day, Passover, May Day, Cinco DeMayo, Columbus Day, or my Birthday.

Posted by: Ron Brown at December 30, 2005 6:43 PM
Comment #109264

BTW, Ann Coulter isn’t a true Conservitive. She the same as the extreme fringe of Liberials. They’re all nut cases.


Posted by: Ron Brown at December 30, 2005 6:49 PM
Comment #109269

Something else we agree on Ron; Coulter is a nut case.

We still need to work on your lack of respect for other cultures, however. E.g. MLK Day, Passover, Cinco de Mayo, May day, even St Patty’s day are important celebrations for many people around the world.

Why dismiss and disrespect them so readilly?

Posted by: Dave at December 30, 2005 7:36 PM
Comment #109271

How can anyone who claims to be so Christian, be so hateful and disrespectful as Ann Coulter? She clearly has some serious anger issues. I think she needs therapy.

Posted by: paula at December 30, 2005 7:55 PM
Comment #109273

Dave
I don’t disrespect them, I just don’t celibrate them. Just like some don’t celibrate other holidays. And I respect those that do celibrate them.

Posted by: Ron Brown at December 30, 2005 8:26 PM
Comment #109277

Why even give her stupid, hateful B.S. the time of day? She is irrelevant. She’s even worst than Rush in my book. Treat her with the same distain she would give you and dismiss her.

I think most righties only listen to her so they can say, “Well at least i’m not as hard-core as her.” And the ones that take her seriously are beyond talking to anyway.

She is not important. Marginalize her by ignoring her.

There are more important things to talk about like GERRYMANDERING, REDISTRICTING, VOTING MACHINES and FULLY FUNDING EDUCATION. If these things are not fixed, our democracy is in deep do-do.

Posted by: Matthew at December 30, 2005 8:57 PM
Comment #109280

If Kwanzaa isn’t African, then Pan-Africanism isn’t African.

It boggles the mind to me that intelligent people cannot think that it would only take a college-educated American about a week to do enough research on Africa to figure out some traditions and introduce them into a new celebration.

You act as if the Black Power Movement was only significant in Watts and nowhere else on the planet.

Posted by: Cobb at December 30, 2005 9:09 PM
Comment #109281

Anne’s not alone:

http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/news/051208b.asp

I simply don’t see how Kwanzaa can be viewed as a threat by anyone.

The shock over Bush honoring Kwanzaa is a Kodak moment though.

KansasDem

Posted by: Kansas Dem at December 30, 2005 9:17 PM
Comment #109283

Yep, count me among those who regard Kwanzaa as a schmaltzy, made-up,crass, and plastic holiday. Like, say, christmas or Hannukah.This country was founded on the principle that everyone could celebrate whatever holiday they chose to. Why would ann coulter (or absolutely anyone else) have a problem with African Americans carving themselves out a holiday that was theirs alone?
Where’s the moral superiority in tearing down Kwanzaa, even if it is new? The so-called Christians that have gained power seem to be pre-occupied with Old Testament morality. In terms of the New testament, some conservatives seem to be more like Pharisees than Christians. The death penalty, tax breaks for the rich, cutting student aid, killing many thousands of innocents in Iraq, etc.
Bush & co call themselves conservatives, but I don’t see any evidence of this. Running up huge deficits is not conservative, “Pre-emptive” warfare is not conservative. Ignoring the laws of the land to do whatever they like is not conservative.
Bush himself is almost nothing he would make himself out to be. He is a divider, not a uniter. He is not compassionate, not a conservative. He speaks with a contrived Texas twang, but he is a Yale educated yankee. He reviled nation building in the 2000 campaign and is now the poster boy for nation bulding.
As for ignoring ann coulter, I’m not sure that’s such a good idea.Calmly reasoned rebuttal, without stooping to her brand of scatoverbiage is necesarry to debunk her poison.

Posted by: Steve Miller at December 30, 2005 9:34 PM
Comment #109285

Ditto.
I could never have said it as well.

Posted by: gypsyirishgirl at December 30, 2005 9:40 PM
Comment #109291

he went to yale but i wouldnt call him educated

Posted by: me at December 30, 2005 10:08 PM
Comment #109295

Ron

“I don’t pay much mind” is viewed as dismissive in my geography. So I guess it just means comething a little different in yours…

Happy New Year (whether ya’ want it or not :-)

Posted by: Dave at December 30, 2005 10:38 PM
Comment #109299

Is she for real?

Is anybody surprised?

Like matthew said, she nor Rush deserve any attention.

But I do have a question. What made this ex-Deadhead so hateful? Did she get burned on an acid deal? Did some dreadlocked guy ditch her at a rest area while on tour? Bad trip? Busted? WTF?

Posted by: MyPetGoat at December 31, 2005 12:00 AM
Comment #109301

So what’s wrong with making up a holiday anyway. If Mr. Karenga want’s to make a holiday, and it sticks, more power to him. Most people don’t recall that Christmas was a made up holiday, too. The birth of Jesus of Nazareth was a real thing, but it most certainly did not happen in December. The day December 25th was carefully chose so as to co-opt the Saturnalia festival from the ancient Roman “pagans”. So if we criticize Mr. Karenga for carefully placing his holiday near Christmas, we must also criticize the early Christian for placing Christmas near Saturnalia.

Can’t you just hear those ultra-con, Coulter-Youths cringe at that one?

Anyway, for more info check out this site:

Cheers,
Michael

Posted by: Michael Glavanovich at December 31, 2005 12:06 AM
Comment #109302

Oops, forgot to state the web site.
http://www.benbest.com/history/xmas.html

Posted by: Michael Glavanovich at December 31, 2005 12:08 AM
Comment #109308
She is not important. Marginalize her by ignoring her.

Matthew,

Normally, I would agree, but there are obviously people who don’t ignore her, otherwise she wouldn’t have a job. The problem is that Ann Coulter is just the symptom of a cancer that is growing in the right wing, fundamentalism. We can ignore the symptom and hope it goes away or we can face the cancer head on before it grows out of control.

Posted by: JayJay Snowman at December 31, 2005 12:43 AM
Comment #109320

Kwannza is a historically bogus holiday. What I take gripe with is Presidents Day, WTF is that? Why should we celebrate in any way the accomplishments of silver spoons who took to politics?

Kwaanza is actually quite afrocentric and really does have an anti-white spin to it.BUUUUUT the brilliance of it is that they can get after Christmas sale prices! On the first day of Kwannza I think you get a book that’s it then a few other corny things. I wish we could celebrate Kwaanza, that’s alot better than debt until April.

Posted by: Novenge at December 31, 2005 1:54 AM
Comment #109325

I just read the Official Kwanzaa site belated, they’re still into that phony Egypt stuff??? It has been disproven a hundred times over by archeology and arcgheological record, they’re still into that belief?

Posted by: Novenge at December 31, 2005 2:17 AM
Comment #109327

Hmm, I’m a bit turned around here.
To the best of my knowledge, the first amendment says the government shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.
In our day and age, that simply means don’t use public funds to buy a creche, and don’t nail anyone to anything for singing different hymns. Should we let city hall pay for a christmas tree, menorah, or kwanzaa-thingy? Well that’s a debate, or at least something we can frame reasonably well.
But to conflate this with the purely social question, “Why do people at Walmart say Happy Holidays?” is just deceptive. If you’re a person who can’t stand to hear anything but the sound bytes of your own pseudo-pagan holiday, then buy yourself a bing crosby cd and a walkman and go nuts.
Have I lost my perspective? Or can we go back to talking about fourth amendment violations?

Posted by: Confused at December 31, 2005 2:38 AM
Comment #109328

Come on people, you are totally taking her out context, in her article which none of you obviously read, Coulter points out that the group prepetuating Kwanzaa was an FBI shadow group created to discount the Black Panther movement and criminalize the Civil Rights movement. She’s arguing for what yo believe in but you’re too bigoted to see it! The jingle was a joke, and so was the spying on Arabs line, don’t read osme blurb that takes her out of context, read the article: www.anncoulter.com and decide for yourselves. But read the ENTIRE ARTICLE then decide.

Posted by: Jump to conclusions much? at December 31, 2005 2:44 AM
Comment #109330

Christmas which is supposed to be ‘Christ’s Birthday’ (though, “mas” means a sarafical death… which doesn’t make since until you remember that the romans believed that the Sun God sarificed his life at the winter solstice to bring Spring) has been proven time and time again by the Bible no less that Jesus wasn’t born in the winter time yet… they’re still into that belief? Don’t judge other people, and what’s wrong with some peace and unity anyway? I could care less wheather someone was to celebrate ‘Holy Underpants Day’ or whatever, as long as no one is fighting… Made up or not (just like all holidays) what does it matter, really? Unless your waging a holy war of some sort, step off.

-Einghf

Posted by: Einghf at December 31, 2005 2:55 AM
Comment #109335

JayJay,

—We can ignore the symptom and hope it goes away or we can face the cancer head on before it grows out of control.—

I see what your saying. But there are plenty of people on the right who actually have a viable point of view and legitimate arguments for their side. SHE IS NOT ONE OF THEM.

Using your cancer analogy. She is not a cancer and the only reason you might see her as a growing threat is because you’re treating her as if she has something to say. She doesn’t. At most, SHE IS LIKE A MOLE on a face of a friend. We all see it but we ignore it because it is not important. So dwelling on it only makes that person seem less important then the blemish.

Ignore her!

Posted by: Matthew at December 31, 2005 3:26 AM
Comment #109376

Jump to conclusions much,

I did read the entire article.

She’’s arguing for what yo believe in but you’re too bigoted to see it!

Really? She believes that people should celebrate their heritage & culture with family and community? I didn’t get that from her article.

  • What I did get from her article is that Kwanzaa should be denounced because it is not Christian in nature. Kwanzaa is a secular celebration of African culture.
  • I got from her article that Kwanzaa should be denounced because it was “made up” by a criminal, therefore it must not have merit.
  • I got from her article that Kwanzaa should be denounced because it may have been government sponsored propaganda therefore it must be illegitimate.
  • I got from her article that Kwanzaa should be denounced because it promotes working together, therefore it must be evil communist in nature
  • I got from her article that Kwanzaa should be denounced because Karenga and Kawaida lack an inclusive philosophy, therefore Kwanzaa must be racist too
  • Ann’s attempt is to meld the man, Karenga, with the celebration, Kwanzaa. If she has a problem with Karenga or the FBI then she should go after them, not a whole culture. Kwanzaa is not a celebration of Ron Karenga or Dr. Maulana Karenga or whatever his name is. Regardless of who started it or why it was started, it is a celebration of African culture.

    Ann claims that Bush is saluting “the intellectual sibling of the Symbionese Liberation Army, killer of housewives and police and the founder of United Slaves”. That’s ludicrous! He is saluting African heritage. Why would you try to demonize someone’s culture? Apparently, Ann doesn’t think it is Christian enough. Oh well, too bad.

    The jingle was a joke, and so was the spying on Arabs line

    Well, she’s got a real sick sense of humor.

    But read the ENTIRE ARTICLE then decide.

    Ok, I read the ENTIRE ARTICLE over four times now, my decision is the same.

    Posted by: JayJay Snowman at December 31, 2005 5:13 AM
    Comment #109381

    If Kwanzaa is bringing people together and teaching them to live with a little more harmony, a little more peace, then so be it. However, if it turned out that eating pickles with our asses produced the same peace and harmony I would promote that too. Let’s stick to what works, even if it’s a new thing.

    Posted by: Scott at December 31, 2005 5:31 AM
    Comment #109391

    Ann Coulter is just part of the Republican Echo Chamber. All Rightwing Pundits coordinate their actions with the RNC. Anyone who thinks otherwise is just delusional.

    Posted by: Aldous at December 31, 2005 5:55 AM
    Comment #109430

    Ann Coulter appeals to the very worst that is in human nature.

    I know that some people make unfair comaprisons at times, but when it comes to Coulter she really is about as close to Joseph Goebbels as you can get.

    Outrageous statements, repeated long enough and loud enough can become a part of the conventional wisdom…

    She is an embarassment not only to the Republican Party, but to everything American that she pretends to represent.

    She is a little puppy dog that nips at the ankles of people working towards greater things for America (within both parties) and some use her to have the cheap shots taken while being about to deny they support her.

    MULTICULTURALISM
    As far back as the 1910’s Presidents were lamenting the hyphenation of people’s identities. There were German-Americans, Irish-Americans… etc. They wanted all people to be Americans. This is nothing new and it did not tear this nation apart.

    Those that do subscribe to the America as a “melting pot” or those that don’t, it really does not matter.

    Multiculturalism is nothing more than an acceptance of a person’s heritage. Whether it be German, English, Italian, Latino, Native American or African.

    Why? Because they are Americans. They are deserving of knowing about the history and contributions of their ancestors, just as much as anyone else.

    ALL celebrations have been created by man. Some older, some newer. Some have co-opted traditions of other people’s in their celebrations. Are the ones of only a certain age acceptable? What time limit are we talking about?

    They have “Sweetest Day” now. The only complaint is that it is another attempt by the candy and card company to make more money…

    Just a suggestion… if anyone within their argument or position quotes Coulter as a source, just shake your head woefully and stop all attempts at converstation… it is pointless.

    To those of her supporters… yes, I am sure that she says enough valid things that if collected will make it appear as if she is knowledgable… But, she intersperses such garbage in between that she should be on Comedy Central, not on MSM. Wait, I think that Comedy Central even has standards… the presentation can be funny, but there has to be some underlying truth… I guess that rules that out.

    Posted by: Darren7160 at December 31, 2005 8:46 AM
    Comment #109435

    Ann Coulter is just Rush in drag.

    Posted by: tattooddood at December 31, 2005 9:32 AM
    Comment #109436

    Ann Coulter is just a bush in rags.

    Posted by: Dave at December 31, 2005 10:04 AM
    Comment #109439

    I don’t have a problem with Kwanzaa, and it’s hardly a surprise that Ann Coulter does, she’s a crazy fascist, like those other Republican Dominionists.

    Kwanzaa is no more and no less made up than Christianity. For Christ’s sake Jesus was born in FEBRUARY; Constantine ordered it celebrated at the winter solstice though because that is when the Roman pagans had their major savior holidays. And let’s not even get into the whole Council of Nicaea thing, where they VOTED on which gospels to accept as God’s word, and then ordered the rest destroyed.

    I think this rabid extremism coming from the right is going to come back and bite them on the ass. Average people are increasingly seeing them as ignorant fascist extremists…and who wants to vote for people like that?

    Posted by: Kurt at December 31, 2005 10:57 AM
    Comment #109441

    Ann Coulter is just another wacko righty in the conservative media.

    I like this game.

    Posted by: tree hugger at December 31, 2005 11:05 AM
    Comment #109444

    Anne Who???

    Posted by: Marysdude at December 31, 2005 11:47 AM
    Comment #109449

    Apart from Ann Coulter’s other assertions this ACTUALLY seems the less crazy. Her pro-McCarthyism stances I can understand railing at but this if quite true that the originator of this afrocentric holiday was convicted of violent assault of 2 women and his 1960’s organization “United Slaves” killed black panthers, then scrutiny of Kwanzaa is actually fine.

    In the early 1990’s I can remember first hearing about Kwanzaa, and understanding it to be an African festivity with Western African origins. But this not only is A FAKE HOLIDAY but one that is INCLUDING the pseudo-scientific notion of all blacks being Egyptians (quite disputed and proven wrong). I think if my fellow dems knew of some of the racial hatred that was in print in afrocentric works of the late-sixties and early seventies, they would see right through this Marxist Kwanzaa ploy.

    It’s racial isolationism for the sake of inculcation, simple, that’s exactly what it is. To dispense an ideology.

    Look at the latest Louis Farakhan million more march nonsense. There was so much venom that it was intollerable to watch which included assertions that we should give the Nation of Islam billions of dollars so that they can marxistly provide healthcare as distributed/rationed out by The NOI. That’s nuts, completely. We tolerate it as we are a nation trained not to criticize minorities and not scrutinize due to historical overtones. There was the owner of the book publishing company named “Blacknificent” who spoke at Howard University and made the claim that blacks should “KILL ALL WHITE PEOPLE” out of an irrational fear that we are trying to kill them (?). Is this accepted in society due to political histories in this day and age? I’m all for the first amendment but the question is of social acceptance and statements going without the slightest bit of scrutiny out of a fear of political labels and scarlet letters.

    The left has as much selective hearing as the right on certain issues and race is definitely one of those issues where prferencial deafness lives with the left. Look at things honestly instead of always what you PREFER to see.

    Ann Coulter calls people names and tags on labels, yes (liberals,lefties). But if this has validation and merit to the claims should it be entirely dismissed due to the author?

    Posted by: Novenge at December 31, 2005 12:13 PM
    Comment #109452

    I think it’s dangerous to completely dismiss or ignore the Ann Coulters, Rush Limbaughs, Sean Hannitys, Pat Robertsons, etc.

    I live in the Bible Belt where the political landscape stacks up about 80% Republican and I can guarantee you that these Dominionist Theocrats are not only listened to, they are applauded with fervor. [picture the swarm of rats from the final scene of Willard played to the tune of Onward Christian Soldiers here]

    OK maybe that’s a bit overboard but I’m not talking about old school Lincoln Republicans or Fiscal Conservatives here. The Republican party seems to have reached down into the bowels of the electorate to harvest those who fear and hate anything and anyone different than themselves.

    KansasDem

    Posted by: KansasDem at December 31, 2005 12:34 PM
    Comment #109459

    O boy! Now yaall are in a whole heap of trouble. None other than Pat Robertson has said that Kwanzza isn’t Christian. Yaall better quit your evil tollerance of it or he’ll bring down the fire from Heaven on yaall.

    Posted by: Ron Brown at December 31, 2005 12:49 PM
    Comment #109463

    I don’t think anyone perse is ignoring them. Pat Robertson has been derided, Ann Coulter is falling out of favor with her own party, O’reilly has been derided (not only on sexual harrassment but this recent Christmas/Happy Holidays thing). Rush has the pill-popping. Sean Hannity stonewalls as does Tucker Carlson so not a word can get in edgewise. Even with a CONSERVATIVE MEDIA, not liberal conservative.

    The one I see as the ONE TO WATCH is Ralph Reed, he goes under the radar a good deal of the time and is obviously working out of the White House.

    What seems strange about all this is that republicans are going against their own man George. See that? Why? They are moving out of Bush-worship and need to justify a concensus. that is how they work psychologically, very little independence politically. I’ve studied and talked with enough republicans to know this, they rarely ever color outside the lines. They need concensus to justify moving away from George. And the socialized/micromanaged rebuilding of New Orleans may very well have been the final straw.

    Posted by: Novenge at December 31, 2005 1:01 PM
    Comment #109469

    I have to say that my giveashit-o-meter is just pegged with this subject.

    Ann Coulter does’t need to be marginalized. Sooner or later she will piss off the last five people in this country that actually think she is funny, and her fall will be as quick as her rise.

    Does the celebration of Kwanza hurt anyone?
    Does anyone really care?

    This is much ado about nothing.

    Posted by: Rocky at December 31, 2005 1:32 PM
    Comment #109470

    Novenge,

    First, ALL holidays are FAKE HOLIDAYS. What constitutes a real holiday?

    You talk like nothing good can come from something bad. Believe it or not, it happens all the time. Kwanzaa may have dubious or questionable beginnings, but so what? What is wrong with a holiday to celebrate your heritage and culture with loved ones? Besides, as some have pointed out, Christmas has dubious or questionable beginnings, maybe we should denounce it too. Or maybe we should live and let live, and celebrate the holiday that each have become.

    The first amendment protects speech, whether we like what we hear or not. But the first amendment does not protect the consequences of such speech. If you make a controversial statement then you should be prepared for the critical consequences. You may call it political labels or scarlet letters, but freedom of speech is a double-edge sword.

    Look at things honestly instead of always what you PREFER to see.

    Please enlighten me. What is it that I am not honestly seeing?

    Posted by: JayJay Snowman at December 31, 2005 1:36 PM
    Comment #109472

    tattooddood:
    “Ann Coulter is just Rush in drag.”

    I think this is literally the truth. I believe Ann Coulter is really a man because he’s got a giant adams apple. Unfortunately, it seems that having to tuck back the male equipment within the confines of his tight pantyhose has created such pain and discomfort that it has caused all this venomous hatred he displays to so many, many people every day of the year.

    Posted by: Adrienne at December 31, 2005 1:47 PM
    Comment #109475

    Now wait a minute……O’reilly has the largest audience in his time slot on cable and the radio program is still growing, likewise Hannity’s radio program is still increasing market share. Rush is sindicated in over 600 radio stations. I don’t pay much attention to Robertson and Coulter. But surely you have to admit that that many people and that many companies that sponser their programs cannot all be wrong. I understand that Air America is currently, and has been for some time in financial trouble.
    Tucker who?

    Posted by: dodge at December 31, 2005 1:52 PM
    Comment #109476

    dodge,

    “Now wait a minute……O’reilly has the largest audience in his time slot on cable and the radio program is still growing, likewise Hannity’s radio program is still increasing market share. Rush is sindicated in over 600 radio stations.”

    And no one has ever lost a dime underestimating the intellegence of the American public.

    Posted by: Rocky at December 31, 2005 1:56 PM
    Comment #109478
    What seems strange about all this is that republicans are going against their own man George. See that? Why?

    I call them type “H” personalities. Hollier than thou. Not to make generalizations, but I think the reason that they have very little independence politically is because they have very little independence in their thoughts, esp. religiously. They desperatly need a leader. They must have someone to follow. Keep in mind the right wing is home to the fundamentalists. These are people who must be told what to think. They call themselves Christians but very few of them actually follow the teachings of Christ. Instead, they are led by people like Pat Robertson and James Dobson.

    Posted by: JayJay Snowman at December 31, 2005 1:59 PM
    Comment #109480

    Re: Kwanzaa: Poor Ann. She must stop reading the “looney, right-wing, fascist material” from, for example, the Dartmouth Review:

    This is an invention of Ron Everett (Karenga) and
    has many things to say about him and “it.” , See
    excerpt below from “The Dartmouth Review,”
    January 15, 2001.

    “Still, some charge that the holiday and its
    official black, green, and red flag promotes
    racial separatism and violence. Says the official
    Kwanzaa Information Center: ‘red, or the blood,
    stands as the top of all things. We lost our land
    through blood; and we cannot gain it except
    through blood. We must redeem our lives through
    the blood. Without the shedding of blood there
    can be no redemption of this race.’ The Kwanzaa
    Information Center also notes that the flag ‘has
    become the symbol of devotion for African people
    in America to establish an independent African
    nation on the North American Continent.’

    James Coleman, a former Black Panther, argues,
    ‘By only stressing the unity of black people,
    Kwanzaa separates black people from the rest of
    Americans. Americans must unify on whatever
    principles ensure we live in a safe, prosperous,
    God-loving country, with the race and ethnicity
    of any American seeking to abide by those
    principles being of no consequence.’

    AND, much more could be said. Look at the evidence, do Research and NOT ad hominem attacks . But, it is so easy to mouth-off IF we think that it is those “mean ol’ Republicans and their kind” and they couldn’t know what they are saying, etc.

    Happy Holidays.

    Posted by: Mal Mauney at December 31, 2005 2:03 PM
    Comment #109482

    To: Rocky:

    ” No one has ever lost a dime……..

    How can that many people all be wrong at the same time? Does your comment still apply to Air America?

    Posted by: dodge at December 31, 2005 2:12 PM
    Comment #109483

    Hopefully Ralph Reed will do down with Abramhoff as more is revealed.

    The problem with someone like Coulter and the like is that they will intersperse just a bit of truth so people can say:

    “Ann Coulter calls people names and tags on labels, yes (liberals,lefties). But if this has validation and merit to the claims should it be entirely dismissed due to the author?”

    In this case, I would say, “YES”. Takne as a whole, she is nothing but a racist idiot. Rational people will judge an argument based upon its merits… not upon pandering to that little voice inside that says… maybe…”

    I dislike Farakahn very much. I do not want to have any of his racist ideas considered in any way “mainstream” American or Democratic ideas. To use him as an example is to once again say, “YES, it is okay to dismiss the author entirely.”

    Anyone calling for violence against another should be condemed… and to believe that we are limited somehow based on political correctness is silly.

    If some people want to believe they origingated in Egypt, who cares? Some want to believe that they originated in Mestoptamia (modern day Iraq) within the Garden of Eden. Some want to say it was just 6,000 years ago. Again, who cares?

    The reason the Christian Right Wing is moving away from Bush is because “HE OWES THEM” and they don’t believe he delivered. The Conservative-Christian-Right brought in enough votes that this small, ideologicaly driven minority, got him elected. Based on this… “HE OWES THEM!!!!!!!!” He didn’t even consult them when he nominated Meirs! That just about killed it.

    As the e-mail I sent the White House said:”You gots to dance with the one that brungs yah!”

    The balancing act Bush has had to do between the Christian Right and the Fiscal Right is going to tear this thing apart.

    Bush lost the use of DeLay who was his strong man in Congress who forced everyone to toe the line for so long or suffer the consequences… Rove is being seen by some as a liability…

    Possibly, some are seeing that a “Principled Steadfastness” just means someone who is willing to be persuaded by the truth.

    Jump,
    A favorite tactic of a bully, sexist, racist or other such boors is that they will say mean, spiteful things intentionally to hurt someone… when they are called on it they use the most cowardly excuse of all… “I was just joking, can’t you take a joke?”

    Thankfully, a lot of children like this mature and grow up to do mature things. It is incredibly sad when an adult does it.

    MyPetGoat,
    I beleive that she does it for the MONEY. No other reason why someone would do what she does. She will sacrifice morality, reason, Christian compassion, and incite hatred because she worships only the dollar.

    There is a word that describes someone like that… I can’t think of it now, but it will surely come to me later.

    Hey Ron,
    I agree, I don’t celebrate many of those holidays either… as a matter of fact, tonight is New Years eve and I will probably be in bed by about 11:00… it is safe here in Wisc. to do because idiots don’t shoot their guns in the air at midnight like they do in So. Cal.

    Now, if someone wants to give me a gift…

    Posted by: Darren7160 at December 31, 2005 2:15 PM
    Comment #109490

    dodge,

    “How can that many people all be wrong at the same time? Does your comment still apply to Air America?”

    What these people forget is they are ENTERTAINMENT!
    No one, in their right mind could possibly take Hannity, Limbaugh, Savage, Coulter, etc. seriously. These people got in on the band wagon when (other than George Putnam) there was no such thing as talk radio.

    A perfect example of the right’s pomposity, was the accolades that “entertainer” Charlie Daniels got for marginalizing the “Hollywood Elites” speaking up politicly because they were “just entertainers”.
    Well, gee Charlie, ya think?

    Air America is one small voice in a cacophony of hundreds.
    The first thing those from the right did when it was announced that Air America was to start, was to marginalize the impact they might have.
    Air America was criticized before they were even on the air.
    And, yes, I think that a bit of what Air America does is entertainment.

    Posted by: Rocky at December 31, 2005 2:40 PM
    Comment #109492

    If there is anything Ann Coulter should consider battling, it is her crippling anorexia.

    Posted by: Romach at December 31, 2005 3:03 PM
    Comment #109496

    Rocky,

    I just love it when people get wild about an entertainer making a statement that is political…

    Pres. Reagan: Republican President

    Sen. Fred Thompson: Republican Senator and Law and Order DA

    Congressman Bono: Calif. Congressional Rep. of Sonny and Cher.

    Gov. Schwarzenegger: Governor of CA. (The Terminator)

    Congressman Fred Grandy: Rep. Congressman from Iowa. “Gopher” from Love Boat.

    If an entertainer should stay out of politics… then what can we deduce from these examples?

    Posted by: Darren7160 at December 31, 2005 3:43 PM
    Comment #109500

    Darren,

    Just because they are entertainers doesn’t cancel their citizenship. Their opinion should be as valued as anyone else’s.
    Charlie’s attempt was just another in a long string of attempts to silence any dissent in the “them or us” war.
    You’ll also notice that between the folks in your list, there isn’t an Oscar among them.

    BTW, you forgot Shirley Temple.

    Posted by: Rocky at December 31, 2005 4:08 PM
    Comment #109513

    The only difference between Ann Coulter and Eva Braun is the quality of their hair care products.

    Posted by: ElliottBay at December 31, 2005 5:09 PM
    Comment #109529

    My biggest quandary with the whole Coulter, Limbaugh, Hannity crowd is how to overcome the stigma of Democrats being anti-American or anti-defense or communist or just a bunch of cowards that would willingly give up our freedom to avoid confrontation.

    The sole reason we can’t overcome that stigma is because we do believe in democratic principles such as “Freedom of Speech”. So rather than changing or circumventing the laws that have protected this union for many years (as the Neo-cons have at the very least attempted to do) we look to educate and inform so people might make decisions based not only on belief but based on knowledge of history, science, etc.

    It’s doubtful that we’ll change the thinking of any of the devout Neo-cons so we need to reach those who feel voting doesn’t matter and those who are someway disenfranchised. How many Americans find it difficult, if not impossible, to vote every year because they are on the move from place to place, job to job, etc? How many New Orleanians will be settled enough to be able to vote in ‘06? How many votes won’t be counted in ‘08? How many eligible voters will not vote at all?

    What we Democrats need is candidates with a strong voice and a true and clear message of hope regarding defense, healthcare, the economy, etc.

    We also need to face some tough issues like abortion. Many of us Democrats think there need to be some changes short of overturning Roe v. Wade. It’s become far too easy to paint someone pro-life or pro-choice on the abortion issue. This whole issue needs more than a simple, “I’m against it but I’m also against changing the law” response.

    And (this is a big and) we must find a brief and simplistic response for everything.

    KansasDem

    Posted by: KansasDem at December 31, 2005 7:28 PM
    Comment #109534

    KansasDem,

    All very valid points. I have noticed since the breaking of the domestic wiretapping story, the un-American rhetoric from the right has calmed down. It is hard to call Dems un-American, while at the same time supporting the trashing of the U.S. Constitution. As far as defense, I have been hearing a lot more from the Dems on real national security measures, like border control, increased security at our valnurable biological, nuclear, and chemical plants as well as those overseas, protecting our ports and increasing inspections on imports from 5% now, to 100%. Giving local authorities the info and tools they need to help identify possible threats and fight the war on terror.

    On voting, we do need to reach out to voters who otherwise might not vote. Bushco did it in 2004. Before we do that though, we need to make sure that people trust that their vote will be counted. That is a tough one. Politicians love all the voter fraud spinning around. It ensures that voter turnout will be low. Why vote if it won’t get counted. Election reform that makes voting conveniant, secure and accurate, is a must.

    What we Democrats need is candidates with a strong voice and a true and clear message of hope regarding defense, healthcare, the economy, etc.

    I agree with that. I cannot figure out why Hillary is the frontrunner for 2008. Can someone give me some selling points? I can’t think of any.

    On abortion, I agree, the Dems should change their stance to pro-prevention. If we put as much time and energy into preventing unwanted pregnancies as we do into pro-choice and anti-choice, roe v wade would be moot. That’s just my opinion.

    Posted by: JayJay Snowman at December 31, 2005 8:16 PM
    Comment #109547

    Jay Jay Snowman,

    Quotes from a Q & A between the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette and Senator Joe Biden on Nov. 16, 2005:

    QUESTION: Former President Carter said recently that the Democratic party had made a mistake in becoming too identified with the abortion issue.

    ANSEWR: “He’s right. He’s absolutely right.

    Look we should not back off our position that a woman has a right to choose at some early point in her pregnancy. Everybody forgets what Roe v. Wade says. … A lot of the womens’ groups don’t really support Roe v. Wade when they say a women’s right to choose. That’s not what Roe v. Wade says. In the first three moths, it is primarily the women’s right; second three months, the state has an interest in the health of the woman; the third three months, the state has an interest in the health of the fetus.

    And so I vote against partial birth abortion. I’m one of those guys, if you look at my voting record, the womens’ groups don’t like me and the right-to-lifers don’t like me.

    “I think it pretty clear that what we’re talking about here, and its the essence of Roe, is viability. After viability, the state has a right to protect the viable fetus. There will bean ebb and flow in terms of whether [Justice] Blackmun got it right that it’s three, three, and three …
    “I’m prepared as a Catholic to say its the moment of conception, but I’m not prepared to enforce that on the rest of the world. What we should be talking more about is the culture of life. We Democrats have found ourselves in a position as party, where we appear to be supportive of abortion. Who the hell is supportive of abortion?

    But that’s the way we come across as, so I think Carter is absolutely right.

    ” …Remember how [President] Clinton used to talk about it: safe legal and rare. We don’t put nearly as much emphasis, in my view, on providing alternatives, on funding alternatives on dealing with adoption on dealing with care for children after they’re born in tough situation, so I think he’s correct.”

    ***********************************************

    To me this makes a lot of sense. Of course it requires thought. Biden is a man of thought. He’s willing to think beyond his own faith for the good of the “whole”. Wow, what do we call that? A moderate maybe? Should there not be some moderation in affairs that effect every single one of us?

    Of course ‘08 is a long way off, but as things stand today Biden is my choice for ‘08.

    KansasDem

    Posted by: KansasDem at December 31, 2005 9:20 PM
    Comment #109551

    jay cee,

    Thanks for helping to prove my point. The point being: you can’t disagree with Bush or you’re anti-American.

    So, you’re right, we’re wrong. The sooner we do away with the Democratic party the better off we’ll all be.

    KansasDem

    Posted by: KansasDem at December 31, 2005 9:47 PM
    Comment #109552

    First:
    Egypt is in Africa. I read the “official Kwanza” site. It doesn’t say all Africans are egyptian and it doesn’t seem that any of those righties read anything other than the nationalcenter.org “review”.

    Second:
    Who has read the “official Christmas” site? Does it go into how Jesus was Ethiopian?

    Third:
    I guess Ann, Rush, and those other reprobates have it figured out that pacifism is evil and we should all be bloodlusted political whores like them.

    Maybe if rush started to sniff Ann’s hairspray …?

    Posted by: Dave at December 31, 2005 10:05 PM
    Comment #109587

    Jay Jay, Pro-prevention? Chastity belts and corks?

    Hillary is the front-runner in 2008 because she said so, got it?! Yeah she needs to get lost for the entire year of 2008. What’s available in outgoing worldwide cruises? Also there is the myth of Clinton who actually got really lucky both times. One when Ross Perot capitalized on the split in the republican party over Bush I, and then secondly after the house republicans and speaker Newtie went nuts and shut down the government amidst hosting the movie “Boystown” and Toffler remedies (also claiming women couldn’t serve in the military because they had vaginas).

    I personally think there are a whole roster of people who should get lost in 2008.

    Michael Moore, John Kerry, Al Franken, Ted Kennedy, Dianne Feinstein, Rob Reiner, Any hollywood celeb, Al Gore, and others who aren’t centrists.

    But then again how do we get Diebold/ES&S broken up allowing there to be a fair election. House dems ARE NOT DOING A FRIGGIN’ THING TO HELP! They are doing NOTHING. What good are they? to keep republicans in, it should serve them right for being so completely unresponsive/incompetant to the needs of their own constituency. House and Senate Dems have done such a LOUSY, crappy job with the voting machines issue let them lose.

    The biggest problem of the democrats is that they don’t serve us and are completely unresponsive and placative, so 2008 might be another wash-out. Just like with Kerry who had four meager things on his dingbat platform. Round Robin? WTF is that? Who talks like that and why should I vote for someone who can’t discuss the issues effectively and has no platform. They have headstart and that’s it and I for one am sick of defending them for it. No more socialist wool-picking have something or don’t run, simple.

    Posted by: Novenge at January 1, 2006 4:32 AM
    Comment #109588

    I have a crush on Ann and am admittably biased.
    Love that fiesty woman.

    sattire and sarcism have been around since our country has been founded and is a way to make a point by showing absurdity.

    Only crybabies are offended by this.

    Posted by: Kruser at January 1, 2006 5:00 AM
    Comment #109590

    Her point is how we ooh and aah at kwanzaa as though everyone should celebrate such diversity while complaining about the Christ part of Christmas, an established holiday. It seems like a contradiction. She reasons that it is due to the libs hostility to Christians in general.
    The seperation of church and state concerns keeping religious orgs from making our laws instead of the republic or the people. It has nothing to do with endorcement.

    Posted by: kruser at January 1, 2006 5:25 AM
    Comment #109591

    I don’t know if anyone from the left is criticizing Christ as part of Christmas. “Happy Holidays” also extends to Channukah (without Judaism there would be no Christ, Christianity or Christmas). Kwanzaa is bogus by the same logic the Irish could have a holiday by which they don’t allow other races to participate and make claims they were the inhabitants of ancient Sumeria or something.

    Posted by: Novenge at January 1, 2006 5:40 AM
    Comment #109593

    jay cee, your comments about the intelligence of WB visitors who identify with this column is a violation of our policy. Please find somewhere else to leave your flames. Your comments are no longer welcome here.

    Posted by: Watchblog Managing Editor at January 1, 2006 8:07 AM
    Comment #109595

    jay cee,
    “Scientific guys”? Is that an attempt to change the “Intellectual Elite” to something else? I can’t keep up with the labels. Get that one from Rush?

    Us “Scientific Guys” would rather form our opinions based on Facts, Law, Logic… not “feelings and emotions and lack of knowledge”.

    If an honest man changes his views based upon new evidence presented he is an honest man with a new point of view.

    If an honest man DOES NOT change his views based upon new evidence presented he is a Republican President.

    “You libbies will spend hours on laughable stuff like this and not five minutes on what really matters like how to destroy the enemy and protect america.”

    Sir, I e-mailed Ms. Coulter asking her about how Democrats were traitors. I am a Democrat, a disbaled vet with 10 years of service. While serving for 10 years I met thousands of people… Democrats and Republicans. How can this be?

    I remember, to a Republican, a soldier is a hero if they agree with you, and a coward or traitor if they disagree.

    “It seems Mr Bush is the only one with enough sense to throw caution to the wind and play tough with these third world thugs.”

    Sir, you also forgot his throwing law and the Constitution to the wind.

    The unanimous voice behind the invasion of Afganistan shows your point to be partisan and typical of one who might want to ignore the facts (us Scientific Types).

    There was a “Clear and Present Danger” there. The was also a very clear connection between the Taliban and the people attacking us.

    “But then I guess the kwanzaa stuff is the only thing you have the intelligence to argue about.”

    IF you would care to give specifics, then possible there could be an intelligent conversation… however what you have written are platiudes.

    (Defined as:. A trite or banal remark or statement, especially one expressed as if it were original or significant. www.transactionworld.com/ articles/2004/May/inTheTrenches1.asp)

    Before you attack intelligent people please consider why some might equate that attitude with Facism…

    Hitler makes it clear in Mein Kampf that effective propaganda is

    *aimed at the masses
    *aimed at the emotions, not the intellect
    set at the intellectual level of the most *limited in the audience
    *designed so that the bigger the audience, the lower its intellectual level

    “The intellectual capacity of the broad masses is only very limited, their understanding small, their forgetfulness on the other hand great. As a result of these three facts every effective propaganda has to be limited to only a very few points and to repeat these slogans until every last person is able to picture what is intended by a particular word. As soon as this basic principle is sacrificed for the sake of comprehensiveness, the effect will be dissipated, as the crowd can neither digest nor retain the material offered to them.
    Hitler (1942): 198

    Humor, satire or sarcasm is a tradition and it goes with our treasured Freedom of Speech… one of the fundaments of an open society we wish the rest of the world to adopt…

    One in which Republican and Democrat soldiers are risking their lives for.

    Posted by: Darren7160 at January 1, 2006 8:38 AM
    Comment #109596

    SemperFi,

    From the name I assume you are Marine (current or former)?

    It appears that from your post, you are like a lot of military (like myself) who believe that we serve/served ALL of America.

    I agree that people getting their nose out of joint about Kwanzaa is silly. Many people are members of one party or the other for financial reasons… some for social, some for both.

    I believe that those objecting to Kwanzaa are involved in politics for a social reason… and, that their agenda demands conformity. Any deviation from what they consider “right” is therefore not just wrong… but “anti-Christian”, “anti-American”, “anti-…”

    My disagreements with some around here is the co-opting of patriotism and concern about the military by one party or the other.

    My experience was there were plenty of people from both parties in the military. All of them were highly educated and professional… and understood that they were defending the principles of America.

    Disagreement with the civilian government, in my experience with my fellow airmen, was never equated with the support of us. If a person disagrees with the government’s use of the military it did not mean they were “unpatriotic” or “traitors”.

    Sir, this was my impression and I would like to hear if your opinion.

    Posted by: Darren7160 at January 1, 2006 8:50 AM
    Comment #109641


    good grief.. ANDY Couldter is a drag.. she is the Queen of all GOPers. She has size 15 shoes.. yikes.. an adams apple to boot! she wears skirts so short well, hang in their Andy!!!
    She’s a real he’ man type of gal.

    any thing she says is crazy!!! plum Crazy!! she is a radical rightwing nut case & just try to find her high school graduation picture.. just try!

    why waste such great space for this kind of woMAN???

    chil
    who hates her baby?

    Posted by: coupd'dem at January 1, 2006 11:14 AM
    Comment #109661

    Darren,

    Thanks for your service to our country.

    My view is that our citizenry is divided into three groups: One, right-leaning conservatives; two, left-leaning liberals; three, those that don’t have a clue.

    Two of the three groups have become — and continue to be — increasingly polarized. Every blip on the radar that shows up in the MSM or on a talk-show ends up being a verbal World War III between those two groups.

    The bruhaha about Kwanza — and Kwanza itself — is merely a symptom of a larger malaise that continues to fracture our society, marginalize our traditions and culture, and further us down the pathway to Balkanization, all in the name of diversity, tolerance, and a misconstruing of Jefferson’s intent about separation of church and state.

    Posted by: SemperFi at January 1, 2006 1:58 PM
    Comment #109663

    SemperFi,

    “My view is that our citizenry is divided into three groups: One, right-leaning conservatives; two, left-leaning liberals; three, those that don’t have a clue.”

    As a member of your theoretical “clueless” group, I happen to take offence to your statement.
    Centrists always get short shrift from those that proclaim they know everything political in this country.
    I have to say that your judgement call is scewed in the wrong direction, as the fringes are the cluless in this society, and the centrists make up the bulk of the population.

    “The bruhaha about Kwanza — and Kwanza itself — is merely a symptom of a larger malaise that continues to fracture our society, marginalize our traditions and culture, and further us down the pathway to Balkanization, all in the name of diversity, tolerance, and a misconstruing of Jefferson’s intent about separation of church and state.”

    Who’s traditions?
    Who’s culture? American? Huh?
    The English? Hardly.
    The Greeks, the Poles, the Germans? The Jews?
    Each group has their own celebrations.
    Do we deny the Greeks their Orthodox Easter, the Chinese their Lunar New Year?
    Ever heard of Passover?
    We’ve already been “Balkanized”!

    Get over it.

    Posted by: Rocky at January 1, 2006 2:15 PM
    Comment #109668

    Someone needs to teach that Ann Coulter about respect and quickly.As a liberal I may disagree with most of what the conservatives believe but I would NEVER EVER say half of things Coulter has said/written.Her latest book How to Talk to a Liberal if You Must sent me into a barbarian rage.I know for a fact liberals and conservatives can get along pefectly fine and even talk politics because two of my best friends are conservatives.They even think Coulter needs to have her head examined.On the Kwanzaa issue Coulter is being very unChristian in being disrespectful of others’ beliefs and not accepting people for who they are and not for what they think.But go figure she is just being the stereotypical rightwinger.

    Posted by: Candice at January 1, 2006 4:18 PM
    Comment #109670

    SemperFi, your comment to Rocky was a violation of our policy. Comply with the policy or lose your privileges to comment here altogether.

    Posted by: Watchblog Managing Editor at January 1, 2006 4:30 PM
    Comment #109676
    “My view is that our citizenry is divided into three groups: One, right-leaning conservatives; two, left-leaning liberals; three, those that don’t have a clue.”
    as the fringes are the cluless in this society, and the centrists make up the bulk of the population.

    Clueless? I think most people know where they stand on the issues that are important to them, and are open to persuation on the issues that are not. The problem with today’s two party system is that each party is represented by it’s extremes. That does not mean that everybody who identifies as Democrat or Republican support those extremes.

    Then there are those who are not represented adequately by either party, the “clueless” group as you call them. If you compare the beliefs of the two parties, minus the extremes, I suspect there is more they agree on, than they disagree on. But those differances can also change from year to year.

    The Republican party was formed because of deep divisions on the issue of slavery within the Democratic party. It only took 6 years to elect our first Republican president. It will take decades, if ever, that a third party President will be elected. This is because our electoral system has been so skewed to favor the two parties.

    Posted by: JayJay Snowman at January 1, 2006 5:00 PM
    Comment #109678

    Dave
    I reckon that ‘I don’t pay them much mind’ might have been a poor choise of phrases.
    In the list of holidays I don’t celibrate is MLK Day. While I don’t observe it myself and don’t close the business down for it, I have emoloyees that do. I’ll let these employees off for the day if they ask for it far enough in advance that production can be schulded around it. About a month. Only about 1/8 of them ask for the day off.
    I also require a month advance notice for vacations so I don’t feel it’s too much to ask for MLK Day. They also have to use it as their floating holliday.

    Posted by: Ron Brown at January 1, 2006 5:04 PM
    Comment #109687

    I do not believe that we need to worry about the balkaniztion of America because of different holidays.

    Balkanization is caused by the intolerance of other people, not the differences. If we maintain the separation of Church and State the Jefferson and the other intended we stand a chance.

    Looking back at history, Jefferson was able to see the damage caused when religion was mixed into governmental rule. I am not talking simply about the usualy, Crusades (in the Holy Land but also in Europe), Inquisition and the bloodshed of the Reformation and Counter-Reformation. I believe that Jefferson was very clear on his feelings about religion and its role.

    Within America itself there were colonies founded by members of faith that codified their beliefs into laws.

    The Balkan problem illustrates this, as does the Iraqi problems of the moment. In the Balkans there are the Roman Catholics and the Eastern Orthodox and the Muslims. In Iraq, there are Shiites, Sunnis and Kurds. In none of these situations was there respect for the rights of the other… If there were attempts of democracy it was believed by the majority that as the majority they had the right to rule without consideration of the minorities.


    I have questioned many people about our culture. Not in an attempt to “put it down” but in an attempt to be more objective about it. I beleive that it can stand up to scrutiny but it isn’t always pretty.

    No one that I know of wants to marginalize our culture or traditions… They just may not believe that the government has any role in the religous ceremonies.

    An attempt to demand governmental cooperation and support of a Christian holiday seems reasonable… after all, numerically, we are the majority in America.

    Now, can we all step back one or two steps? Is MAJORITY RULE the only consideration within a democracy? Or, is the respect of law, the respect of the rights of all, regardless of religion or which group they belong to most important?

    Imagine being a Christian in Afganistan, Iraq, Syria, Iran, Egypt, Algeria or quite a few other countries we would love to see adopt a democratic system. Should the Chrisians be able to expect their rights protected and to be able to participate in their own government? Or, does the majority determine which holidays are relevant, which are of the “fringe” element?

    As an educator I really am committed to Multiculturalism… that is the study of all the cultures that make up America… to respect each one because these people are Americans and deserving of respect and because through an honest. objective appraisal of all cultures we can have respect… not balkanization.

    Posted by: Darren7160 at January 1, 2006 6:20 PM
    Comment #109692

    Kwanza is an artificial holiday. It can become a real one as people make it a tradition. But you really can’t claim it is a tradition or that it is African. Most African American know as much about real Africa as most “Euro” Americans know about their original continent, which really isn’t much. I always find that amusing when people can speak a few words of a language and consider themselves fluent or have visited a place a couple times and claim it as their homeland. We are really Americans first.

    Kwanza is a lot like all those “traditional” Irish songs written in New York or Chop Suey, the tradional Chinese food invented in San Franciso. Or maybe you could say as Italian as a New York Pizza, or as German as a hot dog. They are good things, but they really should not claim to be what they are not.

    Posted by: Jack at January 1, 2006 8:17 PM
    Comment #109694

    Ahhh. Let’s see, Rocky makes it personal by telling me to “Get over it,” and I confirm back to him what he has already admitted, i.e., that he is part of the clueless group, suggesting we let the readers respond on the relative merits of our respective positions, and I get censored and warned?!

    Seems you have a typical liberal Democrat double-standard….

    Posted by: SemperFi at January 1, 2006 8:34 PM
    Comment #109701

    I think you confuse “Rule” with Cosmetic preferences.
    A community may be mostly Christian and choose to decorate it’s public buildings with moses and the ten commandments. They may choose to center holidays as most of the US does around manger scenes, angels and such.
    They aren’t forcing church laws on the minority groups. The seperation is to protect civic laws from being dictated by fundamentalists of any persuasion.
    Democracy was a failed experiment of the Greeks. That is why we have a represenative republic. So there would be checks and balances.

    Posted by: Kruser at January 1, 2006 10:17 PM
    Comment #109703

    Muslum nations may call us a Christian Nation and it would be true on the surface. It doesn’t mean the same thing to us. It is more appearance with freedom for everyone to believe what they want without persecution.
    They are used to fundamentalist rule so I imagine they can’t comprehend a seperate civic rule.

    It is fun to read you all anylize sattire. The quotes from Ann were meant to get people to roll their eyes at the absurdity of certain points. I think I could post Jay Leno stuff or The daily show and anylize it as references to those cruel Liberals….

    Posted by: kruser at January 1, 2006 10:33 PM
    Comment #109710

    Watchdog,

    Could you please post your policy. It seems to me to be rather ambiguous and arbitrary. I thought the whole purpose of this blog was rough and tumble discussion of current events. What I am seeing is people who disagree with the party line are called on the carpet, while the Liberal posters get a pass. I re-read the comments by SemperFi and am still scratching my head. It doesn’t look good.

    Posted by: David at January 2, 2006 12:41 AM
    Comment #109711

    SemperFi,

    “Ahhh. Let’s see, Rocky makes it personal by telling me to “Get over it,” and I confirm back to him what he has already admitted, i.e., that he is part of the clueless group, suggesting we let the readers respond on the relative merits of our respective positions, and I get censored and warned?!”

    Sir, what you replied was that I was indeed clueless.

    I am sorry if you took my remark to get over it personal. My intent wasn’t to insult you personally.
    My remark was meant to point out that we already had achieved what you had railed against, ie. Balkanization, and there wasn’t much either one of us could do about it.

    BTW, I don’t have to be a “liberal” to see that Kwanzaa hurts no one.

    Posted by: Rocky at January 2, 2006 1:03 AM
    Comment #109712

    David,

    The policy is at the top of each collumn.

    Critique the message not the messenger.

    Posted by: Rocky at January 2, 2006 1:05 AM
    Comment #109714

    Rocky,
    I assumed the policy would be more specific than a cliche. Anyway, it was the interpretation, or more specifically the interpreter, of the cliche that I was questioning. Calling Ann Coulter “Rush in drag” struck me as personal. I didn’t realize the Liberal contributors were so thin skinned.

    Posted by: David at January 2, 2006 1:41 AM
    Comment #109716

    David, let me spell this out for you. Messengers are visitors to WatchBlog who express their opinion. Ergo, no critiquing of a personal nature of folks who author comments here. Critique their arguments all you wish. Critique public figures and politicians all you wish. DO NOT Critique the personal characteristics, attributes, or lack thereof, of visitors to WB.

    I trust there now is no ambiguity in your mind about the policy or the enforcement of it. There is absolutely no partiality to liberals or conservatives or in between when it comes to enforcing this policy. There are degrees of violation and they are handled accordingly, but, without regard to political affiliation as most anyone who has been here awhile can attest.

    Posted by: Watchblog Managing Editor at January 2, 2006 2:27 AM
    Comment #109717

    Truth be told I’ve heard worse than someone calling the middle or moderate centrists “clueless”. I mean with all the Clinton bash and cross association stuff it seems mild in comparison. My favorite are the posts that start with “here’s what the ‘libereals’ don’t get.”

    My point is it’s irritating but not offensive. Eric Simonson well that’s another story.

    Posted by: Novenge at January 2, 2006 2:41 AM
    Comment #109744

    Ann Coulter a satirist? That really is difficult to believe. American has a long tradition of people using satire…

    Again, people such as Ms. Coulter are bullies. They say mean and dispicable things and then blame the person they are attacking for not having a sense of humor. After all, “She was just joking!”

    Are you willing to say that Farrakhan is a satirist?

    Michael Moore? Even the Presidnet’s Press Spokesman tried to tye Congressman Murtha to Moore and I don’t believe they would do that if they thought he was just a satirist.

    Please!

    Driving wedges into our society which really will cause a balkanization is an attempt to use humor to show the absuridity of the liberals, huh?

    No. I won’t buy it. Ms. Coulter is a mean spiteful shrew who will do anything to belittle anyone of a political, social or cultural difference.

    Lenny Bruce pushed the bounds of societies acceptance of humor… Ms. Coulter is pushing the bounds of what society will accept of hatred and fear. Call it the reaction to “political correctness” if you will…

    My definition of politically correct is simply people, who in the past put up with mean and boorish behavior, not accepting it quietly any more.

    If there is a balkanization of this country it will be because people like Ms. Coulter drove the wedge in and made acceptance of peoples’ differences into something that cannot be tolerated.

    BYW, I have gone to her site and there is only so much hatred and unreasoned garbage (errrr, I mean humor) I can take.

    Posted by: Darren7160 at January 2, 2006 9:08 AM
    Comment #109748

    Part of Ann Coulter’s intent is to create publicity. She knows that publicity for a columnist is essential, just as it is for many figures in the entertainment world (see, Madonna, Rodman,Dennis, etc.) She has done so with this column.

    Typically, I see Coulter as a non-entity. I don’t read her stuff normally primarily because its entertainment fluff designed to spark a reaction. I prefer thoughtful and insightful commentaries rather than her type of writing.

    Its the same on both sides. There are plenty of liberal columnists who spew the same type of hatred and ignorance…I tend to ignore them as well. Paul Krugman comes to mind, though he acts a bit more intellectual to hide his obvious biases.

    I condemn all who write in such a fashion equally, regardless of party or political affiliation. Its simply unnecessary and unwanted. And why I keep my right to choose what I do and do NOT read.

    Posted by: joebagodonuts at January 2, 2006 10:15 AM
    Comment #109750

    I have heard that some years ago when dear Ann was a aide to a congressman she was sleeping with Newt and then congressman LivingsTONE, THE JERK FROM LA. WHO CARRIED THE BOWIE KNIFE. This was close to the time she was blasting Clinton. I also think it was close to the time Newts first wife was in the hospital battling the BIG C. Anyone else hear this?

    Posted by: jack at January 2, 2006 10:46 AM
    Comment #109751

    I have heard that some years ago when dear Ann was a aide to a congressman she was sleeping with Newt and then congressman Livingstine, THE JERK FROM LA. WHO CARRIED THE BOWIE KNIFE. This was close to the time she was blasting Clinton. I also think it was close to the time Newts first wife was in the hospital battling the BIG C. Anyone else hear this?

    Posted by: jack bishop at January 2, 2006 10:48 AM
    Comment #109774

    Snowman:
    “The problem with today’s two party system is that each party is represented by it’s extremes. That does not mean that everybody who identifies as Democrat or Republican support those extremes.”

    I’ve said it before, and I feel it must say it again: If the Democrats were actually represented by anything close to the extreme left wing of their party, their major players for the past fifteen years wouldn’t be predominantly those who are sanctioned by the Democratic Leadership Council. (Who btw, was pro Iraq war until just recently, pro Nafta, pro Cafta, and who receives lots of funding from Big Oil, Military Contractors, a great many Fortune 500 Companies and last but not least, the rightwing Bradley Foundation.)

    Posted by: Adrienne at January 2, 2006 2:54 PM
    Comment #109777

    Ann is a great american. that skinny little white girl can rip you people a new ass. armed only with the truth you fear her very name you can not stop truth with cream pies and screams.Ron Karenga is a social marxist black racist nigger bastard woman beater and kwanzaa like affiramative action is racist to the bone. We cannot continue to accept that a growing number of indiviuals are allotted destines written in advance. Affiramative action is nothing more than a tool to advance nigger hate against white people and so is kwanzaa.

    Posted by: angry white man at January 2, 2006 3:17 PM
    Comment #109793

    angry white man
    It’s crap like you just posted that makes Liberials think that ALL conservitives are racist. And that’s why I have to keep telling that not ALL of us are.
    IN FACT TRUE CONSERVITIVES ARE NOT RACIST.
    And your racist remarks tell me your not a true conservitive. Your just claiming to be.
    Racism is the worst blight this country has. All it does is devide the country.
    Sense you don’t seem to like Blacks can you tell me why. Without repeating the bigoted racist talking points. Like did 2,000 to 3,000 of them do anything to you or your family?

    Posted by: Ron Brown at January 2, 2006 4:07 PM
    Comment #109799

    Angry white man,

    Happy Ku Klux Klanzaa!!! Yeah but what do you reeeeally think? So your militia compound finally went online..neat.

    Posted by: Novenge at January 2, 2006 4:34 PM
    Comment #109811

    SemperFi,

    He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors

    -Thomas Jefferson

    Posted by: JayJay Snowman at January 2, 2006 4:59 PM
    Comment #109815

    Adrienne,

    Please forgive my grammatical error. When I said represented I was not referring to actual representation, but rather to stereotypes. My point is that when people think of Democrat or Republican they think of them in terms of their extremes. Both parties are made up of people with vast differances in belief.

    Posted by: JayJay Snowman at January 2, 2006 5:11 PM
    Comment #109942

    Watchblog Managing Editor,

    “There are degrees of violation…”

    There’s a liberal idea, if I ever heard one.

    (Hmm, like ‘sorta pregnant’)

    Posted by: Red's Neck at January 3, 2006 3:03 PM
    Comment #109953

    Ron,

    I agree that not all Conservatives are racist. It is a tempting stereotype that needs to be guarded against. It is unfortunate because even legitimate questions such as the power distribution between the state and the feds has been coopted by those with racist agendas… possibly back during the Brown v. Board of Education and onwards (busing and forced desegragation).

    As far as conservatives, I do believe that a lot of them are fiscally conservative with a bit of social, as in longing for the good old days. I don’t know if there were good old days.

    With someone like Coulter though, she can allow many people to openly or secretly nod while shielding that little nastiness within their hearts that want to be let out.

    I do not know if anyone would act as a Troll here… but it is possible that someone might get a thrill from making outrageous statements in an attempt to get a rise.

    DEGREES OF VIOLATIONS

    I would have to believe that there are. Do we shoot jaywalkers? Do we have different levels of punishment based upon the significance of a person’s actions? Of course there are differnet levels of violations… only someone like the Taliban believe that all infractions require the same punishment.

    I was watching one of those police chase shows where a state patrolman was chasing someone who drove away without paying for $20 in gas… the trooper would not back off even in the heavy traffic and it did eventually end up where a family with 2 children were caused to seriously wreck. For $20 of gas they lost their car and were involved in a serious wreck.

    Posted by: Darren7160 at January 3, 2006 4:28 PM
    Comment #109984

    There ARE degrees of punishment.

    Violating a law is a simple YES (guilty) or NO (not guilty) proposition.

    Did the patrolman get his man?

    The best time to chase a perp is when traffic is heaviest. ~Sun Tzu

    Posted by: Red's Neck at January 3, 2006 7:27 PM
    Comment #109988

    Yes, he got his man. Would you support shooting a jaywalker who was running through a crowd? If a loved one of yours was there? Is your family worth more than $20?

    There are too many instances of people being hurt or killed by people fleeing the police for crimes that are not serious enough to justify the level of danger the public was placed in.

    I was living in CA when the SUV with illegal aliens was being chased. In the resulting crash the driver of the SUV killed a bunch of school children.

    Good old common sense says that we don’t hurt innocents in our pursuit of the guilty.

    Sir, there was nothing funny about the loss of those children to their families.

    And yes… I do absoultely blame the driver of the SUV!!! He should not have run and there was no way the police could have foreseen the results of the chase.

    A lighthearted and cavaliar attitude towards a family innocently driving along and having their world turned upside down and their lives put in danger I consider interesting.

    Not really on topic to Coulter, but possibly it is…

    Such a rigid belief in the law is the law is the law and every effort must be taken to ensure that no law breaker ever gets away with anything… Yes, it makes for good television.

    Yet… somehow not really as well thought out, when the law breaker might possibly be someone political and a member of the person’s political party… then there are degrees for sure…

    Then there is the insistance of constitutional protections, the presumption of innocence and then the rationalizations come.

    Guilt may be a yes or no… but the degree of what the response is varies.

    But, then again to bring this back to Coulter… any variation is to be considered wrong, bad, unAmerican, traitorous, treasonable …

    Posted by: Darren7160 at January 3, 2006 7:52 PM
    Comment #109991

    I reckon angry white man can’t tell me why he hates Blacks without using racist talking points.

    Darren

    I do not know if anyone would act as a Troll here… but it is possible that someone might get a thrill from making outrageous statements in an attempt to get a rise.

    Sometimes it’s fun to stir the pot a little to see what boils up. But making racist remarks ARENOT my idea of fun.

    Posted by: Ron Brown at January 3, 2006 7:58 PM
    Comment #109993

    Darren
    Yes, he got his man. Would you support shooting a jaywalker who was running through a crowd? If a loved one of yours was there? Is your family worth more than $20?

    How good a shot is the cop?
    The problem is if the cops back off then criminals know all they have to do is start driving fast and they can get away. If the cops give chase an innocent person might be hurt or killed. It’s almost a catch 22. I think it depends on what the criminal is wanted for and how much more dangerous would he be if he got away.
    Chasing for $20 of gas is a little much as far as I’m concerned. So is speeding. We had a 14 year-old killed recently because the cops were chasing a car that failed to stop for a speeding ticket. The car ran past a stopped school bus and hit the boy as he was trying to cross the road. Is a kids life worth a $125 traffic ticket?

    Posted by: Ron Brown at January 3, 2006 8:13 PM
    Comment #109994

    Darren
    Yes, he got his man. Would you support shooting a jaywalker who was running through a crowd? If a loved one of yours was there? Is your family worth more than $20?

    How good a shot is the cop?
    The problem is if the cops back off then criminals know all they have to do is start driving fast and they can get away. If the cops give chase an innocent person might be hurt or killed. It’s almost a catch 22. I think it depends on what the criminal is wanted for and how much more dangerous would he be if he got away.
    Chasing for $20 of gas is a little much as far as I’m concerned. So is speeding. We had a 14 year-old killed recently because the cops were chasing a car that failed to stop for a speeding ticket. The car ran past a stopped school bus and hit the boy as he was trying to cross the road. Is a kids life worth a $125 traffic ticket?

    Posted by: Ron Brown at January 3, 2006 8:14 PM
    Comment #110007

    Darren,

    “I do not know if anyone would act as a Troll here… but it is possible that someone might get a thrill from making outrageous statements in an attempt to get a rise.”

    That is exactly Ms. Coulter’s MO. Likewise Limbaugh, and Hannity, and the rest of their minions.

    “But, then again to bring this back to Coulter… any variation is to be considered wrong, bad, unAmerican, traitorous, treasonable …”

    These guys throw these words around like confetti. Intimidation is the game they play, and they can do pretty much what they want.
    After all they make the rules.


    Posted by: Rocky at January 3, 2006 9:19 PM
    Comment #110016

    They’d be precious few car chases in the ‘Car Chase Capitol of the World’ if it were a well known fact that the surest way to draw fire is to hit the gas!

    Let the chasee decide if it’s worth it !

    Ann Coulter’s rapier really cuts to the Liberal bone, don’t it?!

    Posted by: Red's Neck at January 3, 2006 10:03 PM
    Comment #110019

    “How good a shot is the cop?”

    Moot point if it’s a given that the lead’ll surely be flyin’.

    The public service “Suicide by Cop” is rarer than you might think.

    Posted by: Red's Neck at January 3, 2006 10:29 PM
    Comment #110022

    Red’s Neck,

    “Ann Coulter’s rapier really cuts to the Liberal bone, don’t it?!”

    I doubt that Ms. Coulter could find her ass with both hands.

    Posted by: Rocky at January 3, 2006 10:35 PM
    Comment #110030

    She always manages to find the soft Liberal underbelly.

    BTW - which means off topic -
    My dirt-cheap solution for airline security -
    Make it legal to carry guns on planes.
    And issue 200 ‘Saturday Night Specials’ to passengers (over age 9) as they board
    (Cost: $0, the police have confiscated millions of them).
    Collect them as passengers deplane.
    Of course there’ll be the problem of people tryin’ to ‘upgrade’…!

    A plane with 200 armed passengers is way, way, way down on the Kamakazi Target List.

    Just think…You could then breeze thru the airports again - Like “O.J.” used to !

    Posted by: Red's Neck at January 3, 2006 11:23 PM
    Comment #110035

    “A plane with 200 armed passengers is way, way, way down on the Kamakazi Target List.”

    Are you going to give people anger management classes as well?
    How about the guy that just starts shooting for the hell of it?
    How about someone that just wants to comit suicide and wants to take a few folks with him?
    A few shots at 40,000 feet should do wonders for the atmospheric pressure systems in the plane.
    I’m sorry but that has to be the dumbest idea ever.

    Listening to Ann Coulter will surely rot our minds and render them incapable of rational thought.

    Posted by: Rocky at January 3, 2006 11:59 PM
    Comment #110038

    Ann’s no worse than Micheal Moore. Except that she’s a lawyer.

    That suicidal passenger won’t get off very many shots…

    Besides, bullit holes don’t faze a pressurized cabin. Don’t you watch “Myth Busters”?

    And according to Liberalism Is A Mental Disorder, only the Liberal passengers might require anger management classes.

    No comment about “O.J.”?

    Posted by: Red's Neck at January 4, 2006 12:21 AM
    Comment #110046

    “And according to Liberalism Is A Mental Disorder, only the Liberal passengers might require anger management classes.”

    Wow, Michael Savage, another mental midget.

    Yeah, I’ve got nothing to say about OJ.

    “Ann’s no worse than Micheal Moore. Except that she’s a lawyer.”

    And your point is?

    Posted by: Rocky at January 4, 2006 1:03 AM
    Comment #110052

    A little joke - Ann doesn’t practice law anymore.

    She is now the author of four New York Times bestsellers.

    Ann was named one of the Top 100 Public Intellectuals by federal judge Richard Posner.

    Maybe she should have a talk show opposite Oprah (on FOX!)

    Posted by: Red's Neck at January 4, 2006 2:57 AM
    Comment #110093

    “How good a shot is the cop?”

    Moot point if it’s a given that the lead’ll surely be flyin’.

    The public service “Suicide by Cop” is rarer than you might think.

    Posted by: Red’s Neck at January 3, 2006 10:29 PM

    I wasn’t suggesting the cop shoot open fire in a crowd. Or refering to suicide by cop. I was just giving a smart assed answer to Darren’s question.
    I don’t want a cop opening fire on a jaywalker in a crowd anymore that I wnat them to chase a speeder at 110mph into an area that they know that at that time of day there’s a 98% chance that a school bus will be letting kids off from school.
    NEITHER ARE VERY RESPONSIBLE ACTIONS!
    Our ‘esteemed’ County Sherriff said this morning that they got a wanted felon off the streets. They guy had a feloney warrant for $5600 in hot checks. A real dangerous character anit he? Is $5600 worth the life of a 14 year-old?

    Posted by: Ron Brown at January 4, 2006 9:29 AM
    Comment #110097

    Ron,
    I agree that it is a fine balance. Professionalism over emotions, I believe, is very important for a person who wants to become a cop. A good sense of proportion as to what is appropriate for the situation.

    Except in movies, no one is really good enough to shoot at a running person in a crowd.

    In CA it was impossible to get the police to even come to the scene of some crimes… they were too busy playing catch up with the criminals…

    Here in Wisc. they give people speeding tickets on bicycles and every time I called about a noisy neighbor they responded and cited the guy. They were proactive and tried to nip things in the bud.

    Ann Coulter has some books. Charles Manson has some followers. The only thing keeping serial killers and gang leaders from selling books are laws preventing them from profiting from their crimes. Big deal.

    As with polling numbers, sometimes they go down so far that they hit the very hard core supporters… those that have long ago sacrificed their intelligence, integrity, sense of right and wrong, and sold their soul to a political agenda.

    I would say then, that based upon the hatred, racism and pure spitefulness, we can assume that those in America who believe in her garbage (and can read) would equal the number of people buying her books. If we include people with these core beliefs but cannot read then we might be able to double that.

    I just cannot seem to see the differnece between her racist garbage and that of a rapper who is talking about killing “Whitey”.

    Sadly, anyone who wishes to defend her would have to also defend the sick rap lyrics to maintain their integrity… but… somehow, I just cannot see that as a serious concern of anyone who supports her.

    Wow, a federal judge is out there making Top 100 lists? Is he looking for a career change to go work on People mag?

    So much for the decorum and the appearance of objectivitey of the courts. I knew that allowing lawyers to advertise was a slippery slope and a bad idea… look where it is taking us.

    Posted by: Darren7160 at January 4, 2006 9:41 AM
    Comment #110099

    Red’s Neck,

    “Ann was named one of the Top 100 Public Intellectuals by federal judge Richard Posner.”

    This statement leads me more toward questioning Posner’s sanity, or at least his definition of intellectual, than raising my opinion of Ann Coulter.
    She is a screeching shrew, and her attempts at “satire” do nothing to raise the dialogue in this country above the level of the gutter.
    Fox would get what it deserves.

    Posted by: Rocky at January 4, 2006 9:44 AM
    Comment #110224

    Darren
    Except in movies, no one is really good enough to shoot at a running person in a crowd.

    I know that. A moving target is hard enough to hit when your not moving. Now add your movements to that and it’s almost impossible. Now throw in 5 or more people around the target and you have a recipe of disaster.
    Read my responce to Red’s Neck above. I was giving a smart assed answer to your question.

    Posted by: Ron Brown at January 4, 2006 4:46 PM
    Comment #110259

    Grin…

    Posted by: Darren7160 at January 4, 2006 7:15 PM
    Comment #110313

    Cold facts and harsh reality are the really tuff things to deal with in life, huh?

    I hear Jeb is thinking ‘08…
    Let’s see… Jeb and Condi… no, wait!
    Jeb and ANN in ‘08 !!!

    Posted by: Red's Neck at January 5, 2006 2:42 AM
    Comment #110321

    I wonder if Ann knows that Christmas is a made up holiday adopted by christians from the pagan sun worshipers of sol invictis and also that that the story of christianity was made up for the romans by the romans, who drove out the real message of christ along with peter and the rest of the apostles. If she really wants to be like and follow Jesus she should convert to judaism, that is what Jesus was. She should be ashamed to be a christian, after all it was just an excuse to rape and pillage anyone that didn’t agree w/ them including the true followers of Jesus. I wonder if all these so called followers of Christ know what the crusades were all about, was it really Jesus’s message to rape and kill children who didn’t believe in him. People like her and the rest should all be aware of the fact that most people know what phonies they are in the eyes of God and the world.

    Posted by: phillyfan610 at January 5, 2006 5:03 AM
    Comment #110323

    I love it when right wingers question the courage of lefties. calling rush, bush, sean, ann, cheney courageous heroes is insane, lets check their military records, OHHHH, they don’t have one, bush has one but nobody can find it.This administration of draft dodgers shows what cowards they really are not one of them went to vietnam. Cheney changed his tune after calling John Murtha a coward, until Murtha pointed out all of DICK’S deferrments. The right is just a bunch of blowhard bullies, all ready to fight as long as it’s not them doing the fighting. Here is my case in point, the president and the rest of the right are so scared of the terrorist that they have given in to them, they have surrendered, they are doing the bidding of Bin Ladin, shredding the Constitution. Wasn’t it bush who said that “the terrorist hate freedom” well you all got your wish, we have less freedom because the right wingers are shaking in their boots, I’m sorry to say but the terrorist have won, they have changed our way of life. Thank you Mr. president and all you right wingers, you have once again proved your cowardice. It’s the poor people on the left who fight your wars, the president and his whole admininstration and fox news and all of the right thats behind this yellow group, you blew it for America, you let AL quida change our way of life and you are proud of it.you are a disgrace to all persons who ever wore a uniform and fought for these rights. A lot of good young Americans fought and died for these rights and you let 20 some people from saudi arabia along with a gutless bush administration steal these rights away from us and most of you are too stupid to even realize it. The more you allow them to chip away at our civil liberties, the bigger the victory of Al Quida. Don’t ever try to tell me how brave and courageous you all are, you tanked your own country and we all lost

    Posted by: phillyfan610 at January 5, 2006 6:03 AM
    Comment #110324

    By the way, if you put ann coulture up against oprah, I personally think Oprah would whup her ass

    Posted by: PHILLYFAN at January 5, 2006 6:06 AM
    Comment #110334

    “Cold facts and harsh reality are the really tuff things to deal with in life, huh?”

    I don’t know, you can tell me in a couple of months…

    1) Abramoff spilling his guts
    2) Congressional investigation into wiretapping
    3) Tom DeLay trial
    4) Libby trial

    Posted by: Darren7160 at January 5, 2006 8:40 AM
    Comment #110335

    “Cold facts and harsh reality are the really tuff things to deal with in life, huh?

    I hear Jeb is thinking ‘08…
    Let’s see… Jeb and Condi… no, wait!
    Jeb and ANN in ‘08 !!!”

    You keep on drinking that kool-aid and everything will be fine.

    Posted by: Rocky at January 5, 2006 8:44 AM
    Comment #110350

    …the president and the rest of the right are so scared of the terrorist that they have given in to them

    Slick Willie proved that appeasement & ‘bitch slapping’ wouldn’t work…

    I don’t know, you can tell me in a couple of months…

    Let’s check the scoreboard so far:
    Dem’s five years of grabbing at straws - 0
    Bush - still Prez

    Oh yeah, and Bush seems to win the polls that count,
    Cover your kid’s ears, the rappers have the first amendment.

    Anyway, back to Ann…
    The Oprah/Ann match up would be a good one.

    Posted by: Red's Neck at January 5, 2006 10:22 AM
    Comment #110361

    You keep on drinking that kool-aid and everything will be fine.

    Got my high water pants on (and white socks) - this place is awash with Kool-aid.

    rape and kill children ?
    Those wacky Christians…

    Posted by: Red's Neck at January 5, 2006 10:43 AM
    Comment #110395


    “Comment Spam” - euphemism for censorship.
    Approve THAT !

    Posted by: Red's Neck at January 5, 2006 12:25 PM
    Comment #110399

    I wonder if all these so called followers of Christ know what the crusades were all about, was it really Jesus’s message to rape and kill children who didn’t believe in him. People like her and the rest should all be aware of the fact that most people know what phonies they are in the eyes of God and the world.

    Posted by: phillyfan610 at January 5, 2006 05:03 AM

    Are you still drinking the left over egg nog?
    JESUS NEVER TOLD ANYONE TO RAPE AND KILL CHILDREN! In fact he warns against such carrying on.
    No true Christian ever went on the crusades.
    I agree with you though about the phony Christians. And unfourtantly there’s alot more of them than ture Christians.
    If everyone that calls themselves Christians really were, this world would be better off.
    True, Christ was a Jew. But it’s the Christians that follow his teachings. The Jews don’t except him as their Masiah. And deny that he is God.

    Posted by: Ron Brown at January 5, 2006 12:39 PM
    Comment #110563

    “Comment Spam” - euphemism for censorship.
    Approve THAT !
    Posted by: Red’s Neck at January 5, 2006 12:25 PM

    This refers to a popup thing that came up but then disappeared, about ‘comment spam’ requiring ‘approval’. (Moi?)

    Posted by: Red's Neck at January 6, 2006 1:06 AM
    Comment #110584

    RE: RON BROWN “JESUS NEVER TOLD ANYONE TO RAPE AND KILL CHILDREN”
    That was my point. also you say no true christians ever went on a crusade, NOW who’s been drinking leftover eggnog, i heard of denial but that statement is totally rediculous and w/o merit or historical fact, and one more thing ANN v oprah, r u SERIOUS who wins the credibilty status in that one. Your not only sipping the left over egg nog your smoking crack also. lol

    Posted by: phillyfan at January 6, 2006 4:33 AM
    Comment #110597

    Sadly, it seems as if this is turning into a Jerry Springer show. One liners. Rude comments in place of discussion. I was hoping for a bit more depth of intellect than what I would find from a bunch of drunks lining a bar and spouting zingers at each other.

    Many of those that joined the Crusades were pious Christians. However, many weren’t. When the Emperor of Constantinople requested help, he was hoping for aroung 500 professional dedicated Knights.

    Instead, the Pope used this as an opportunity to deal with a pressing issue in Europe at this time. The lack of land for the 2nd and 3rd sons. The land went to the 1st born male and the other sons had to fend for themselves. This often meant entering the church or selling his sword and hoping to gain wealth through battle.

    Indulgences and remittance of sins was the bait. Not just theirs, but of their loved ones. Along with this was the wealth of the Holy Lands. A land of milk and honey… there for the taking.

    Distortion of Christ’s word is no different from the distortion used by some in the Muslim faith. There was the “Kill a Muslim and go to Heaven!” sales pitch.

    OK to the point. Distortion of truth. Political agendas! Pandering to the hatred and predudice! Rationalizing terrible behavior in the name of a higher purpose…

    We can argue that these men were a product of their times… just as Columbus was when he cut off the hands of natives not bringing enough gold.

    If anything… when we look to history for answers we should look to the shining examples as role models and look to the dark examples as warnings…

    I do see some parallels between Ann Coulter’s racist comments and those of someone else in more recent history. One that was very effective in reaching down into the darkness of the peoples’ hearts and, bit by bit, accept cruel statements because somewhere in the back of their minds they really wanted to believe they were true.

    People wonder why the Germans goose stepped behind Hilter into the abyss? Because he appealed to their darkest thoughts… their prejudices, fears and belief that they were “victims” and it was time for them to reasset themselves.

    Ann Coulter and her followers may believe that it is harmless teasing and poking at others… but really it is desensitizing them to rational thought, compassion, acceptance of others and eventually the dehumanizing of anyone not like them.

    Posted by: Darren7160 at January 6, 2006 8:18 AM
    Comment #110634

    Ann Coulter and her followers may believe that it is harmless teasing and poking at others… but really it is desensitizing them to rational thought, compassion, acceptance of others and eventually the dehumanizing of anyone not like them.

    Are you prepared to apply this mensurate to Mark Twain, Will Rogers, and other humorists? Or is it that Ann is just a little too close to home?

    Posted by: Red's Neck at January 6, 2006 11:30 AM
    Comment #110640

    Humor, like propaganda, must contain at least a modicum of truth to be effective. You have to admit, Ann and Micheal ARE effective.

    Posted by: Red's Neck at January 6, 2006 11:40 AM
    Comment #110796

    Red Neck
    I have no idea if this will be read if this topic is no longer on the home page… But, I will respond.

    What is considered acceptable changes over time… would you agree? Maybe you don’t, but it used to be considered quite normal to make racist comments about people… to disparage enticities such as the Irish or Italian.

    Humor, and what passes for it can change over time… especially if it is humor that demeans another race.

    Twain nor Rogers, as far as I know, went to the extremes of isolating out a particular group for racist comments in their attempt to be funny or whitty or to cause people to be reflective, so I would not put her in their ranks. No sir.

    Does it hit a little to close to home? Yes sir, it does. My adopted sister who passed away last year was a lovely woman… warm, intelligent, compassionate, loving, cared for the people she employed and she happened to be black. We adopted her when she was just a few weeks old.

    Sir, she never worked as an airport security person (please see Ms. Coulter’s attempt to be funny in her AMAZON.COM 10 questions to authors.)

    I dispise racists in all their shapes and all their justifications. Am I intolerant? Can a liberal be intolerant? Yes, when it comes to idots who say dispicable things and then smugly think that they are whitty… and I dispise the people that nod their heads because they secretly know that the racist comments are true but just won’t say it.

    No sir. That woman, and people that support her are nothing but hate mongers that cleaned up their act just enough that they can take off their hoods and get onto TV and into newspapers.

    That, sir, is why I get physically sick when I try to read her crap.

    People who are so proud of their heritage that supported segragation, separate water fountains, killing of people trying to vote, using state partol officers to keep a child from entering a school… there is nothing honorable, proud or respectable about that. They are cowards… I said it when I lived in Birmingham and I say it today.

    Look at the bombing of the church in Birmingham that killed 4 little girls and the idiots strapping bombs on their bodies and blowing up wedding parties in Lebanon. Tell me the difference? Except for the fact that the racist in AL was too cowardly to die himself… and then his all white jusry let him off.

    Posted by: Darren7160 at January 6, 2006 8:52 PM
    Comment #110851

    Wow, it’s like deje vu all over again…

    “Political debate with liberals is basically impossible in America because liberals are calling names while conservatives are trying to make arguments. And when every one of your arguments is characterized as an attempt to bring back slavery or resegregate lunch counters it’s a little hard to have any sort of productive debate. I mean I have no problem with invective, obviously, but the name of my book isn’t ‘Invective’, it’s ‘Slander’.” ~Ann Coulter [June 26, 2002 Katie Couric, Ann Coulter, Today Show interview]

    I’m outta here.

    Posted by: Red's Neck at January 7, 2006 1:20 AM
    Comment #110877

    Wow, it’s like deja vu all over again…
    “Political debate with liberals is basically impossible in America because liberals are calling names while conservatives are trying to make arguments. And when every one of your arguments is characterized as an attempt to bring back slavery or resegregate lunch counters it’s a little hard to have any sort of productive debate. I mean I have no problem with invective, obviously, but the name of my book isn’t ‘Invective’, it’s ‘Slander’.” ~Ann Coulter [June 26, 2002 Katie Couric, Ann Coulter Today Show interview]

    I’m outta here.

    Posted by: Red's Neck at January 7, 2006 2:50 AM
    Comment #110966

    Typical response… slip in a quick stab and then run… ‘cause your quote from Ms. Coulter did not discount my point… all it says is that people seem to have a similar reaction to her rantings writings (the more people agree, I would say the more likely it is that their perception is right) and she tries to minimize it by discounting it. Big Deal.

    Hmmmmm… now… why would a “Liberal” want to characterize her statments as racist instead of an attempt to make an argument? Hmmmmmm. Maybe because her arguments tend to begin, work on and end up with racist beliefs?

    What is this… “A Kinder and Gentler Racism?”

    I get it… okay… the old racists were violent and simple in their beliefs. Ms. Coulter chooses to use bigger words, wrap her racism up into “political dialogue” and then wonder why people call her on it?

    White Supremisists like to pretend… pretend that the past was wonderful and the “Liberals” are in some way limiting their speech…

    No, we do not limit the speech… not through police dogs, fire hoses, lynching or with shotguns. We do however call them on their bull. This they find very very upsetting and they want to try to say that we are somehow being hypocritical because of this.

    Nah… not buying it. We yell loudly, write letters, articles, argue against, but we don’t string people up into trees or plany bombs in their churches. We leave that to the Klan members.

    Let’s talk about “POLITICAL CORRECTNESS”

    1) Shooting people trying to talk other Americans into exercising the right to vote.
    2) Dragging a black man by his neck behind a truck in Texas until he dies.
    3) Strapping a gay person to a tree or fence and murdering him.
    4) Years of “Jim Crow” laws what restricted speech.

    No. I will not sit back and let klan members put on a nicer suit and grow their hair and think that they can get away with it.

    The racist’s defense? Oh… tut-tut… that was a while ago… get over it… we are not like that… we are using “humor” about the blacks as a means to promote discussion… Why must you Liberals always bring up those people we killed?… I am really tired of having to defend ourselves because we killed a few black people in the old days! Hey, eveyone was doing it!… We want to create a diolgue about why the black people are lazy, intolerant, racist and on welfare and you want to keep calling us “racists”! When are you going to open your eyes to the REAL world?

    No problem… I see the real world and it pisses people off when we call them on it.

    Posted by: Darren7160 at January 7, 2006 12:07 PM
    Comment #111121

    Darrell, Darrell, Darrell,
    continuing to make my point for me won’t change it…
    And for me to continue this debate would border on ABUSE !

    Besides, I gotta go iron my robe…

    Posted by: Red's Neck at January 8, 2006 1:07 AM
    Comment #111141

    What is it about people from the south… Darrell? Even the teachers I had would look at my name on the attendance sheet and get it wrong.

    Maybe it is a difficulty with not being able to see the truth?

    If it looks like a duck…
    If it quakcs like a duck…
    If it waddles like a duck…

    Posted by: Darren7160 at January 8, 2006 8:09 AM
    Comment #111258

    I guess people from the North have trouble with names, too.
    See:Posted by: Darren7160 at January 6, 2006 08:52 PM
    The name’s Red’s Neck.


    …Ann’s satirical racist remarks often seem to touch a certain nerve of latent guilt.

    “If it looks like a duck…
    If it quacks,
    and quacks,
    and quacks, like a duck…

    Posted by: Red's Neck at January 8, 2006 8:53 PM
    Comment #113637

    anne coulter is not the problem,she has nothing to do with the problem. the truth of the matter is that she says things that you disagree with, even when she is right. dont get bent out of shape,keep your eye on solving the real problem. overcome your own pride and make the world a better place. telephone poles are not the problem, running into them are, stay on the road and you wont have a problem with them.

    Posted by: don at January 16, 2006 5:15 PM
    Comment #315621

    Wow, even right-winger Mike Nelson makes fun of Anne Coulter in the Rifftrax of Eclipse! LOL She is so out of there, she’s slightly right of Darth Vader.

    Posted by: Torgo's Pizza at December 21, 2010 2:03 AM
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