Democrats & Liberals: Archives

It is possible, to interject race into election battles without succumbing to hysterical Republican talking points charging racism or race baiting.

Yet, so few have the ability.

And the real question is WHEN are we going to start treating each other like equals and not as seperate races. I would think that the group professing to care about seeking equality and purporting to want to carry on Dr. King’s message would quit focusing on race as a dividing point and numbers on a political tally sheet to ‘target’ and would seriously look at bettering the lives, by removing barriers to everyone instead of building them up for maximum political effect would be the way to go.

Everyone should seriously look at never filling out another ‘race’ box on any questionaire, census, application, etc. Only until we see each other as humans and americans can we make racism irrelevant.

This is the first in a series of personal posts on race and the coming election cycles. Part Two will deal with the specific message the Democratic Party must bring to the Black community

Please do, it’s a refreshing change to see Democrats openly targetting ‘the black vote’ by using stereotypes and group-think than seeing it done by behind the scenes manipulation as it normally surfaces as.

Absolutely, Rhinegold.

I shudder to see that this post is just the first in an installment on how to brainwash and manipulate African Americans to vote on behalf of a single party.

How cynical and racist the contemporary Democrats have become—plotting and planning for ways to marginalize and insult anybody who strays from the Good Ol’ Democratic Party Cotton Plantation.

Bert,
“Are Bush’s approvals among Blacks really at 2% percent?”

Now this is funny. Does that mean, with the margin of error, Bush’s approval ratings with Blacks might actually be in the negative numbers?!

What happened with Katrina will resonate for a long time. Remember the tsunami last year. Over 200,000 people killed. It took Bush days to interrupt his vacation, and make a half-hearted promise of US aid. When the world reacted with scorn, the offer was substantially increased.

Katrina followed a nearly identical pattern.

But, Bert, I would argue it’s not just a racially oriented neglect. The Bush administration treats the poor of the world with equal neglect and disdain. The most recent budget demonstates this, with its tax cuts for the wealthy, and program cuts that impact the poor.

“The Bush administration treats the poor of the world with equal neglect and disdain.”

This is so very true. The neglected poor in New Orleans just happened to be Black. It is easy to confuse discrimination against the poor with racism because of the strong correlation between minorities and poverty. Does Bush hate the poor because they are not rich or because they are (largely) not white? While I certainly believe GWB is racist, at least on a few levels, I think he would have abandoned poor whites just as quickly as he did the poor Blacks in New Orleans and the poor Asian tsunami victims. Of course, the mainstream media gives GWB a pass as they always have. They called Reagan the Teflon Prez because no scandals stuck to him. It had nothing to do with Reagan the man (just like the MM’s soft approach to GWB has nothing to do with Shrub the man), it is simply that the corporate-owned and controlled mainstream media will not harm their biggest benefactor.

An interesting, if long-winded, article. Lots of words, but little content. The same liberal hate-speak and whining.

Democrats play the race card in every election posssible, but the electorate has had enough. Just because you’re born black, does not mean you have to be a Democrat. That assumption is racism in it’s highest form. Democrats don’t own blacks today and should stop treating them as liberal “property”.

I look forward to Part Two, “the specific message the Democratic Party must bring to the Black community”. But that’s the problem, the Democrats are long on “message” and short on action. The “Great Society” under Johnson, four years under Carter and eight under Clinton produced nothing, just increased crime and porverty in black communities. (But what would you expect from a group of white Southern Presidents?) Americans of African descent deserve better and, I believe, their patience is wearing thin. Blacks are coming to the realization that they share the same values as most Republicans, the same as Hispanics and Asians. This was proven in the last election - even though poll numbers predicted the opposite.

Blacks have been on the Democratic “plantation” long enough. It’s time for them to shed their bonds and seek a political party that shares their values - be that group Republican, Libertarian or their own.

*
Evidently, we have a bunch of college kids posting on this board. The thoughts, the reasoning, the expressions are sophomoric, narrow, argumentative, and simply contrary. All of which, combined, describe liberal progressive democrats, everyday.

sanger
I shudder to see that this post is just the first in an installment on how to brainwash and manipulate African Americans to vote on behalf of a single party.

It bothers me too. But doesn’t supprise me as the Democrats have been doing this for the last 140 years.

How cynical and racist the contemporary Democrats have become—plotting and planning for ways to marginalize and insult anybody who strays from the Good Ol’ Democratic Party Cotton Plantation.

It aint just the contemporary Democrats that’s been doing this. I’ve seen it all my life out of them.

It is interesting to see Democrats still bleating on about Katrina and blacks when evidence has shown that black and white died in roughly equal numbers although the percentage of whites living in the wards that suffered most damage was only 22%.

You do the math.

I agree, Democrats do need to court the black vote, hispanic too, but I believe that they will come undone by lying and believing that black people are ignorant enough to blindly believe them. They’re not.

If i may ask, may we identify what the needs are of the black voter and the black demographic as opposed to the hispanic voter, the white voter, the asian voter, etc. I am curious in what fundamental political needs differentiate voters on race, as opposed to other grouping factors such as wealth (rich vs. poor) and age(elderly vs. baby boomer). I am trying to see if individuals have clear political differences because of the shade of their skin color, because if America is progressing to be truly colorblind as some claim it is, then wouldn’t individuals base their political ideology and voting habits on their own morals and social beliefs instead of strictly on race?

mac6115cd
Just because you’re born black, does not mean you have to be a Democrat. That assumption is racism in it’s highest form.

How right you are on both points.
As most yaall know I have a Black Brother-in-law, and a Black Son-in-law. Neither are Democrat. Neither are Republican either. Even though both are Conservitive.
You should see and hear the reaction from Democrats, specially the ultra liberial ones, when they find out that neither is, was, or plans to be a Democrat. Talk about racial slurs, they’ve heard them all from that crowd.

“The Bush administration treats the poor of the world with equal neglect and disdain.”
Posted by: phx8 at December 28, 2005 02:01 AM

‘Bush ties poverty aid boost to social reform’

From article:

“”Pouring money into a failed status quo does little to help the poor,” he said.

The value of development aid must be measured by results achieved, not just by resources spent, he said.”

AND…

“”This administration is doing more than any administration in the last 20 years,” said former president Jimmy Carter.

“I am deeply grateful that President Bush has taken this initiative and this bold step, because I know that some key people in his administration didn’t even want to increase development assistance at all,” Carter told CNN.”

Aid to Africa has tripled during the Bush years.

Anyone ever consider that those who need help in our own country are receiving such help from fellow citizens? Why do people think the only help should come from the government? There are plenty of places to look for help before expecting it from the government.
Many other nations don’t have these resources.

Do democrats really have a problem with encouraging people to take care of themselves?

The blacks that I know don’t want hand outs from the government and don’t feel like victims of our society.
That seems to be how the dems keep blacks in their party.
It’s a mindset that the dems don’t want blacks to lose.

The real question is WHEN are we going to start treating each other like equals and not as seperate races. I would think that the group professing to care about seeking equality and purporting to want to carry on Dr. King’s message would quit focusing on race as a dividing point.

- Too many black men are or have been in jail.
- Blacks are disproportiately poor.

You can’t solve these issues without specifically talking about race.

We will be able to start treating each other as equals when everyone in this country has an equal opportunity to make of themselves whatever they want, and not when it’s harder for one group because of skin color, religion, etc.

What do Condaleeza Rice and Colin Powell have in common? They both support affirmative action and they are the two most prominent black Republicans. Do you think they are just professing and purporting to agree with affirmative action, or do you think they earnestly support it at great political cost to themselves?

You say you want people to be treated equally? How about we all pay the same percentage of taxes? How about gays be allowed to marry?

- Too many black men are or have been in jail. - Blacks are disproportiately poor.

You can’t solve these issues without specifically talking about race.

Well, you could, if you wanted to actually address why those are the case. But you can’t because you want to talk about their race. Hint: It’s not because they are black. I would look more towards prohibition and the decline of the urban family structure myself. But, I’m not a racist trying to garner votes…

We will be able to start treating each other as equals when everyone in this country has an equal opportunity to make of themselves whatever they want, and not when it’s harder for one group because of skin color, religion, etc.

Sorry, we are already there. Anyone who works hard and gets an education will improve their lot in life. That is the hard fact. Not everyone will become a millionare, some have a leg up over others. But everyone does have the ability to improve and provide for their children to give them a leg up for the next rung, etc.

Except we in the US like to take from those who attempt to garner wealth to improve the lives of their children… But one thing at a time.

You say you want people to be treated equally? How about we all pay the same percentage of taxes?

Sounds good, how about we make that percentage 0 for everyone?

How about gays be allowed to marry?

Sounds good, I’ve been supporting that for years.

Oh wait, did I not fall into your straw man stereotype? Hmmm, and based on what I’ve written so far are you going to assume what race I am? What party I belong to? What kind of neighborhood I live in?

Bert Caradine! Great to see an article by you!
Good topic and an important one.
I’d have loved to weigh in with my opinion, but Max basically said everything I was going to, so now I’m forced to simply say: What He Said.
(Nice work Max! :^)

Rhinehold:
“Hmmm, and based on what I’ve written so far are you going to assume what race I am? What party I belong to? What kind of neighborhood I live in?”

Well, you’ve given no clues as to your race or your neighborhood, but without a doubt you’re a Libertarian — which by my definition usually equals: anarchists with a decent income! ;^)

etdefender: “The neglected poor in New Orleans just happened to be Black. It is easy to confuse discrimination against the poor with racism because of the strong correlation between minorities and poverty.”

Sad but true. Which makes me wonder if a race-related series is necessary, because it’s not just about race. It’s about income also. Granted, the two of them are very closely related, but there is definitely a difference between talking about “the Black vote” and talking about “the blue-collar vote”. Take the following for example…

dawn: “The Blacks that I know…”

This is about as substantial an argument as “Some of my best friends are Black.” Dawn, just because you don’t know them doesn’t mean there aren’t a good number of minorities who need help. Feel free to step outside the socioeconomic bubble at any time.

“Do democrats really have a problem with encouraging people to take care of themselves?” With one in ten households in U.S. going hungry, with twice as many hungry Black or Latino children as White, it’s obvious that even with government help, the problem of poverty is a difficult one, too big for people to just “take care of themselves”. And you want to take that help, as limited as it may be, away?

Interesting post. May I make a suggestion.
First some history. Ever wonder why so many blacks live in povery? After WW2 a grateful nation rewarded our veterans with the GI bill. Along with education benefits came loan garantees for the purchase of a home. Millions of our fathers took advantage of this. It changed the country. 30 year morgages became the norm. It led to the rise of the middle class. The profound economic benefits are still working. How many of us have benefited from inheritence or financial help from our parents to buy our own homes,not to mention the personal benefits made possible by the stability that goes along with home ownership.
Now to the rub. The federal government redlined. They(we) would not garantee loans in black nieghborhoods. Do not forget that this was before fair housing laws. A black family could not move to a white nieghborhood even if they wanted. The result was millions of black veterans were denied the same just rewards that white veterans recieved and the opportunity was closed to the black community.
We have an historic opportunity to help this wrong and more importantly to reward our veterans with the same GI bill, adjusted for modern prices and no redlining. A simalar program could be offered to Katrina survivors. What we could offer is opportunity,not handouts. Many of these loan garantees would go to black Americans simply because of the make up of those eligable,although affirmative action is justified. It is a hard sell.
The republicans would certainly talk about this and try to get credit but they are not capable of delivering . It could threaten tax cuts for the rich,for heavens sake. This is a point we should keep hammering on. The traditional way Democrats get votes is to actually improve peoples lives. The Rovian mindset just cannot fathom this.
If this makes sense to you please blast something off to your reps to get the ball rolling.

which by my definition usually equals: anarchists with a decent income!

Ah, the misgeneralizations. Just like all republicans are racists and all liberals are commmunists.

You really shouldn’t let yourself fall into that trap and then expect to be able to complain about it being done to you at some point. It might be better to actually figure out what a real Libertarian believes, especially since it is closely aligned with what Liberalism was meant to be. (Re: Classic Liberal)

Or, glibly continue to discount other’s views with hackneyed generalizations.

Oh for pity sake, Rhinehold! That’s the last time I’ll wink at you sir, since you’ve refused to take my wisenheimery in the spirit in which it was intended.

PS. Behind many stereotypes and hackneyed generalizations may lurk a wee grain o’ truth…

bill

We have an historic opportunity to help this wrong and more importantly to reward our veterans with the same GI bill, adjusted for modern prices and no redlining.

While this sounds good the problem is most WWII vets are dead now. And the youngest of the ones still alive are in their very late 70’s and most likely don’t want to take on a mortage this late in life.

A simalar program could be offered to Katrina survivors. What we could offer is opportunity,not handouts. Many of these loan garantees would go to black Americans simply because of the make up of those eligable,

Then what? Another huricane comes through and eveyone defaults? If we’re going to do this, make it on the condition they don’t rebuild in New Orleans.

although affirmative action is justified.

Quotas are never justified.

It is a hard sell.

You bet your sweet bippy quotas are a hard sell.

,em>Anyone who works hard and gets an education will improve their lot in life. That is the hard fact. Not everyone will become a millionare, some have a leg up over others. But everyone does have the ability to improve and provide for their children to give them a leg up for the next rung, etc

Sorry to disappoint Rheinhold, but that is NOT a “hard fact”…and I am just one example of many hard working people with an advanced degree, approaching middle-age (technically, just past the median life expectancy) and, yet even with all that (and being a hard worker), my lot in life will most likely stay about where it is now…in a middle-income plateau, largely due to a stagnant growth in my field, a rapidly changing economy and tons of student loan debt. Clinging to the old-school idea of “working hard” and “getting ahead” does not cut it in today’s world.

bill

We have an historic opportunity to help this wrong and more importantly to reward our veterans with the same GI bill, adjusted for modern prices and no redlining.

While this sounds good the problem is most WWII vets are dead now. And the youngest of the ones still alive are in their very late 70’s and most likely don’t want to take on a mortage this late in life.

A simalar program could be offered to Katrina survivors. What we could offer is opportunity,not handouts. Many of these loan garantees would go to black Americans simply because of the make up of those eligable,

Then what? Another huricane comes through and eveyone defaults? If we’re going to do this, make it on the condition they don’t rebuild in New Orleans.

although affirmative action is justified.

Quotas are never justified.

It is a hard sell.

You bet your sweet bippy quotas are a hard sell.

Sorry for the double post. The computer opperator is a little on the dumb side and hit post twice.

Sorry to disappoint Rheinhold, but that is NOT a “hard factâ€â€¦and I am just one example of many hard working people with an advanced degree, approaching middle-age (technically, just past the median life expectancy) and, yet even with all that (and being a hard worker), my lot in life will most likely stay about where it is now…in a middle-income plateau, largely due to a stagnant growth in my field, a rapidly changing economy and tons of student loan debt. Clinging to the old-school idea of “working hard†and “getting ahead†does not cut it in today’s world.

Posted by: brico at December 28, 2005 04:15 PM

Defeatist attitudes like this are why you won’t get ahead. Insted of letting this get you down, why don’t you find something else you like and are good at and give it a try. Who knows, You just might get ahead.

I am really sick and tired of of people blaming others fore their problems. Bush did not order people to the superdome,Nagin did but he gets a pass, And i am sorry, but that hurrican was comming up the gulf for a week before it hit,But no one left what happen to people taking care of them selfes.. If you are a parent and you doent put your kids first shame on you!!!White or Black

“socioeconomic bubble” ????

excuse me?

I happen to live in a part of our nation where there are MORE whites who are poor than blacks.

If 60% of the population of a city is of one race - which race will have the higher number of poor??

If 60% of the population of a city is of one race - which race will have the higher number of poor??

Posted by: dawn at December 28, 2005 04:41 PM

That’s why even though Atlanta is concidered the Meca for middle class Blacks, it has a higher percentage of poor Blacks than Whites.

Ron’s right, Brico.

If you are ‘plateaued’ and aren’t doing something about it then you are accepting your current situation and you are getting it.

If you choose NOT to accept it and attempt to improve your situation, you will find that you have that opportunity.

However, there are no guarantees. If there were guarantees there would be no reason to improve. There would be no incentive. And beyond that, there would be NO reason to appreciate success when you stumbled upon it.

You have to have the ability to fail to truly succeed.

I’m an employment counselor in Houston and have dealt with a LOT of people who are evacuees from both Katrina and Rita; roughly 10% of all the people I counsel. What I can tell you about the reality of the situation is that they are almost all living below the poverty level (and were before the storm, too) and they are almost all people of color. Coincidentally, these are also characteristics of the 2.2 million Americans currently incarcerated.

What those quick to cry foul don’t consider is the realistic role race plays in determining voter preferences, values, wedge issues, etc. It’s a game we’d all prefer not to play, but again the reality is that IT IS DONE. See the exodus of predominantly black churches to the right wing over clearly divisive and overhyped issues like gay marriage.

Unless you really pay attention, you might grow up thinking it’s easy in 21st century America to wind up the next Colin Powell or Condi Rice. Well, it isn’t. It’s not unusual for me to counsel blacks, latinos, and asians with bachelor or even advanced degrees who are so desperate for work that they’ll take low-paying retail sales jobs just to make ends meet. Whites do that too, you may protest. The difference is that whites do it for a month or two, but people of color often do it for a year or more. Again, the reality of the situation (which you will find ignored, refused, doubted and discounted again and again by a large number of conservatives) is that the playing field is NOT equal.

So, why should either party go after a particular race of voter? Why should Shrub liberally spice his stump speeches with Spanish? Because just like business owners, women’s righters, hawks, peace activists, and environmentalists, it is another way the actuaries and pollsters have found to classify us.

Bert

Great post…Keep them coming

If I were a free-thinking Black American, I would be furious at the insult that you would attempt to use my skin color to manipulate me into voting a certain way. White radical speech (both left and right) based on emotional and illogical statements without a basis in fact affect me the same way.

You stated: “alleged indifference shown by George Bush (based on racial prejudices) in response to Hurricane Katrina, has devastated his standing among Black Americans in the widely reported NBC/WSJ Pollâ€.

– I think the use of a poll to measure standing is profoundly flawed. Just remember during the election cycle how far the polls varied from week to week. The only true measure is party registration. My wife is Black and was a life-long Democrat until the elections of 2000 when she changed to Republican. At first, I wondered why Blacks voted in such monolithic blocks. Using Florida voter registration rolls from 2000, 84.79% of Blacks were registered Democrats while only 5.29% were registered Republicans. Then it struck me, the reason if for power. Not for reasons of abusive power, but because as a group that is only 12% of the population, you must act in unison to affect change. The civil rights movement taught you this, and it is a good lesson. However, you must also be sure that the vehicle you have chosen for this change will serve you. The Democratic party of today is not the same one of the 50’s and 60’s. My father and I have the same values, he is a Democrat and I am a Republican. The parties have changed. Soon I will post an article highlighting this change. For now, just think this one through. If you are not better off now as a group after decades of Democrat policies, maybe you should rethink which star you hitch your wagon to. My wife did, and now she’s a Republican. Maybe her eyes were opened when she found out I wasn’t a racist, hate-mongering, bigot.

You stated: “In November 2004, George Bush improved his electoral numbers among Black voters by +2% (11% percent), making his slim margin of victory all that more infuriating to stomach”.

By the way, looking at the 2004 Florida voter registration information, don’t be too infuriated by the slim margin of victory. The percentage of Blacks registered as Republican went down to 5.11% of total Blacks registered to vote from 5.29% in 2000. However, the percentage of Blacks registered as Democrat went down to 82.39% of total Blacks registered to vote from 84.79% in 2000. That just means that more Black voters are willing to look at issues and vote independently based on persuasive arguments of effective policy and leadership. These voters will not be swayed by your manipulative ‘Race Card’ efforts. But, good luck anyway.

Ron Brown
My apologize for not making myself more clear. My suggestion involved giving loan garantees to the current crop of veterans. From Iraq and
Afganistan. It is the least we should do. I looked into a current fed program for Katrina victums. It is doomed to fail. 80% of applicants are not passing the credit check.They just do not earn enough. As I mentioed in my post,30 year morgages were unheard of before the GI bill. Maybe it is time for 40-50 year morgages. For Katrina folks job training and placement,help with childcare etc. might be needed.
As far as ww2 vets it is to late but helping their decendants get into homes has some merit,not only to rectify a historical wrong but to lift a community out of poverty. Should have some appeal to conservatives also. Instilling ownership,etc.
Another reason I wanted to bring up red-lineing
was,frankly, to show our rightwing observors that yes there was systematic government racial discrimination and yes it is one of the reasons there is a clear link between being black and being poor.

Bill
I believe that our current vets can get a GI loan for housing. I’m not 100% sure of this though as things change all the time. But yeah, they should be given the same benifits that WWII, Korean War, and Vietnam vets have.
These folks have put their lives on the line for their country and deserve nothing less than the best.
I don’t think anyone that knows anything about our history would argue that racial discrimination from the government never existed. Regardless of their political leanings. They might argue who was and/or is responcible for it. But not that it never existed.

Ron Brown
I was proposeing some programs that could be politically advantageous for the Dems to reach out to black voters. There is nothing wrong with kept promises. The ratio of people of color in the military is high. Often our soldiers are from poor backgrounds and often they are black.
We seem to have gotten off on a thread here. You gave me an idea and I would like to explore it with you. I assume you are a boomer. My clue was that you can complete a sentence. Correct?
That being said, I would ask that you think a little about how devasting it must have been for a black veteran from ww2 after applying for a home loan to find out that anywhere HE wants to live is not eligible.A great wrong was committed in recent history.
OK. How about his decendants?Would it be so wrong to help them out of poverty by offering them the same opportunity he was denied? How about a college or trade school education? How about a morgage garantee that is affordable? How about ….how about. Yeah, It would cost some money. Money well spent is called an investment. The sons and daughters of those brave men will, if given the opportunity contribute more to this country than than I ,at least, can ever hope to.
People make mistakes. Countries make mistakes. Sometimes we have a chance to correct them. We have one now.

All I’ve seen from the Democrats are promises of handouts to Black in exchange for their vote. It worked in the past when Black weren’t very well educated. But as Black become better educated these handouts are becomming less and less inticing to them.
I couldn’t even begin to imagine how our Black WWII felt when they found out that they couldn’t get mortgages. But it had to devistating to say the lest. This should have never happened.
Our only full time farmhand when I was a kid served in the Army in WWII. He wanted to buy 40 acres and build a house on it. He couldn’t get a mortgage. I’m not sure of all the reasons why. But I’ll bet that his being Black had a lot to do with it.
However, to give mortgages to their children and grandchildren just because of this is the same as giving money to Blacks just because their ancestors where slaves. Both where wrong, but when we start giving handouts just because of past wrongs we’re leaveing the door opened to anyone that thinks their ancestors where wronged to demand retribution.
People do make mistakes. Countries do make mistakes. These need to be made right. The best way to do that is to make sure these mistakes never happen again.
Your right, I am a boomer.

I don’t know who posted it, but I read in an earlier post that people in New Orleans where having trouble getting government loans. The Government doesn’t make the loan to the applicant. It only co-signs the loans. The applicants still have to qualify and credit history is checked. Bad credit usually means being turned down. Even though the Government is backing the loan.

Ron and Rheinhold -
Well…thanks so much for those enlightening comments. You are making the assumption that I have neither the desire or ability to raise myself out of the “plateau.”
I work hard. I look for other opportunities.
Not everyone has the same perspective on life. Not everyone has the same experiences. Not everyone has the same abilities. I am very good at what I do, however, there is a limited call for people in my field. It is very easy to say “Find something else you like to do and do it.” However, platitudes are no substitute for advice, training or guidance.
I am speaking from my personal experience, you are speaking from yours. To automatically dismiss my statements out of hand is insulting and demeaning. That being said, my real objection to your statements (as I have to many of the statements on these boards) is that you cannot apply cookie-cutter platitudes to everyone. It seems people get on this board and never talk about real experiences (their own, not those of people they know or have heard about)- lots of theories (from both sides of the aisle), but no discussion of the individuals is affected. Life is to complicated to simply throw a blanket over a problem by attempting to be clever.

Rheinhold and Ron -
BTW, what caused my initial post was Rheinhold’s inaccurate use of “FACT.” What he’s stating is not a fact, it’s a supposition.