Democrats & Liberals Archives

God made him do it: Bush's divine intervention

“We’re on a mission from gaad.” - Elwood Blues, 1980

“God would tell me, ‘George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq.” - George W. Bush, 2003

According to a new BBC, 3-part, documentary called: Israel and the Arabs: Elusive Peace President Bush claimed to have been anointed by God to go into Afghanistan, Iraq and get the Palestinian's their own state.

The White House, so far, has categorically denied this story but nonetheless, the three-part documentary will air on BBC and later in the US via PBS.

According to the documentary, Bush, during a Israeli-Palestinian summit, mentioned, among other things, that God spoke to him personally and told him to invade Iraq, Afghanistan and give the Palestinians their own state.

Posted by john trevisani at October 7, 2005 12:40 PM
Comments
Comment #84239

God help us?

Posted by: the english guy at October 7, 2005 1:21 PM
Comment #84240

TEG:
Which God is George talking to? Is it the same one that Pat Robertson talks to?

Posted by: john trevisani at October 7, 2005 1:33 PM
Comment #84241

I’m inclined to believe this story for several reasons. First, the BBC and PBS (two sources I trust for accuracy in reporting) are running with it. Second, I’d heard these “quotes” from Bush spread about a long time ago so the story is familiar to me. Third, (and most importantly) in Bob Woodward’s book ‘Plan of Attack’ Bush is asked whether he consulted his father George H. Bush while planning for the Iraq war. After all his father had been President in recent history and had fought a war with Saddam Hussein as well - ‘who better to ask?’ some might think.

Bush responded that he did not consult his father. But he added that he took his orders from another father instead, a higher father.

I have no problem with the President of the US being a religious man. I’m personally agnostic but I recognize that every President has been religious, some very much so. I dont think strong religious views are a hindrance to governing.

My problem, however, is this - I know plenty of people who SPEAK TO GOD but I know of nobody and would be fearful of a leader TO WHOM GOD SPEAKS. That is the difference for me, and I think its a really big one.

Posted by: Paul D at October 7, 2005 1:40 PM
Comment #84245

the english guy:
“God help us?”
Great first reply - totally cracks me up!

Paul D:
“I know plenty of people who SPEAK TO GOD but I know of nobody and would be fearful of a leader TO WHOM GOD SPEAKS. That is the difference for me, and I think its a really big one.”

Yeah, enormous. Because if he thinks he’s actually hearing the voice of God telling him to do stuff today, theres just no telling what God might start demanding tomorrow!

Posted by: Adrienne at October 7, 2005 2:09 PM
Comment #84249

Even if God is speaking to W, how do we know that he isn’t misinterpreting the message?

Posted by: moneysh at October 7, 2005 2:22 PM
Comment #84251

The last time I checked “God” gave us Freewill. Why I have no problem of President Bush speaking with “God” IMO “God” will not tell you what to do.

The problem with the President of the United States speaking from his position in our government is that he takes the argument out of the realm of reason and logic and moves to an emotional debate over which “God” he is listening to. That fact is so dangerous in so many ways.

Posted by: Henry Schlatman at October 7, 2005 2:30 PM
Comment #84252

He should remember that God hardened the Pharaoh’s heart, and that he often punishes men by giving them exactly what they want.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at October 7, 2005 2:31 PM
Comment #84259

Think Cheney set up a speaker phone in the oval office?

Bush “God what should I do?”
speaker “find every way possible to give money to Halliburton!!”
Bush “Yes God, as you command”

Posted by: vexlord at October 7, 2005 2:57 PM
Comment #84262

Adolf Hitler also believed that God told him what to do. In Mein Kampf, he wrote:

“Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.” (Volume 1, Chapter II)

And now, I await the frothy Republican replies…

Posted by: Mister Magoo at October 7, 2005 3:18 PM
Comment #84266

Wasn’t that comment attributed to President Bush by the Palestinians? I question why anyone would think it a credible source????? Not much better source than if it had been osama.

bn

Posted by: bn at October 7, 2005 3:28 PM
Comment #84268

If the Son of Sam could claim that he received messages from his doG then I guess the Bush can receive messages from his God. I just wonder if somehow Bush is dyslexic and spelled the name backwards?

Posted by: Razer Mackham at October 7, 2005 3:34 PM
Comment #84270

Henry:

You make an excellent point about the potential of taking the argument out of the logical. That can and does happen.

A pastor friend of mine told me of a church member who instructed the pastor to do something, having been told by God that this needed doing. The pastor politely replied that if God really wanted the pastor to do something, He would most likely contact the pastor himself.

The inclusion of God doesnt undermine logic necessarily though. And of course conversations with God are not the same as conversations with humans. To consider them the same makes for good fun, but not accuracy. I recall Hillary Clinton saying that she “talked” to Eleanor Roosevelt about issues, and how that made the talk shows and comedy routines. All in good fun, but certainly not an accurate description of what she meant or did.

I’ll say it for all of us though: God, help us, please.

Posted by: joebagodonuts at October 7, 2005 3:36 PM
Comment #84272

OK, so if the Palestinians are lying, what about these quotes from Bush?

“I trust God speaks through me. Without that, I couldn´t do my job.’

“I feel like God wants me to run for President.”

It is hardly far-fetched to think that Bush believes that God is speaking to him or through him. It is consistent with his past actions and speech. It also explains his ability to stubbornly ignore facts and reality in order to stay the course, however ill-fated that course may be.

Posted by: moneysh at October 7, 2005 3:45 PM
Comment #84273

Henry:
“The problem with the President of the United States speaking from his position in our government is that he takes the argument out of the realm of reason and logic and moves to an emotional debate over which “God” he is listening to. That fact is so dangerous in so many ways.”

Absolutely, Henry. But I believe that Bush and his political friends may have begun couching their references to his religiousness very cynically and intentionally, so that gullible people would come to think of opposing him as somehow equal to actually opposing God. And so, by broadcasting this sense of “choseness”, everything he does, or wants to do, during his entire presidency might be viewed by his faithful followers as the divine result of God’s Will.
Perhaps this is why there is no such thing about accountability in this presidency?
But I agree that this is indeed a very dangerous and illogical thing — and on Bush’s end, is completely lacking in humility and an important awareness of moral ambiguity.

Posted by: Adrienne at October 7, 2005 3:45 PM
Comment #84275

It is certainly arguable that GOD communicates with his children in response to their discussions with him. Personally I believe that he does. Believing that, I am sure whatever message HE sends is for a valid reason in HIS eyes, not necessarilly ours.

As joebagodonuts alludes to “communication” takes forms other than direct, specific, speech.

“In the morning, O Lord,
You Hear My Voice ;
I lay my requests before you
and wait in expectation.”

Psalm 5:3

Posted by: steve smith at October 7, 2005 4:00 PM
Comment #84280

Steve:

Very well put.

Also, I’d like to hear from those on the “left” as to whether they have the same perception about Hillary Clinton “talking” with a woman who died decades earlier. Wouldn’t that really be the same kind of thing? Where is the furor over her claim to talk to dead people? Will these people NOT vote for Hillary if she runs as a result? Just wondering, folks.

Posted by: joebagodonuts at October 7, 2005 4:13 PM
Comment #84281

It is truly amazing that the advice for action he receives from God is the same as he was predisposed to take before the conversation. Imagine the feeling of power and superiority one must get knowing that God thinks just like you do.

By the way, Son of Sam had a direct line, too.

Posted by: Regis J. Reynolds at October 7, 2005 4:13 PM
Comment #84286

joebagodonuts you said

“Also, I’d like to hear from those on the “left” as to whether they have the same perception about Hillary Clinton “talking” with a woman who died decades earlier. Wouldn’t that really be the same kind of thing? Where is the furor over her claim to talk to dead people?”

hillary clinton was using a metphor. she does not acctually believe Eleanor Roosevelt spoke to her. what we are taking about here is whether george bush actually thinks that his god told him to attack iraq.

Posted by: voice of reason at October 7, 2005 4:22 PM
Comment #84288

jbod:
“Also, I’d like to hear from those on the “left” as to whether they have the same perception about Hillary Clinton “talking” with a woman who died decades earlier. Wouldn’t that really be the same kind of thing?”

Well, not quite. While I think its pretty darn eccentric of Hillary to be talking to Eleanor’s spirit, IMO it only enters the Realm of the Wacky if she began claiming the woman was actually answering her. The hearing of a voice is a crucial aspect if you ask me.

Posted by: Adrienne at October 7, 2005 4:26 PM
Comment #84294

Joe,

I doubt that Hilliary ever prayed to Elenor about whether to go to war or not.

Really guys, is this any screwier than Nancy Reagan and her astrologer.

Posted by: Rocky at October 7, 2005 4:41 PM
Comment #84298

Adrienne,

“But I believe that Bush and his political friends may have begun couching their references to his religiousness very cynically and intentionally, so that gullible people would come to think of opposing him as somehow equal to actually opposing God. And so, by broadcasting this sense of “choseness”, everything he does, or wants to do, during his entire presidency might be viewed by his faithful followers as the divine result of God’s Will.”

You could not be more correct.

Posted by: Andre M. Hernandez at October 7, 2005 4:57 PM
Comment #84299

It is recorded that God talked to Moses,too.
He ordered Moses to lead the Israelites out of
Egypt, not into Egypt. The Egyptians had first
made slaves of the Israelites.

I knew Moses, and Bush is no Moses.

Posted by: Disgusted in GA at October 7, 2005 5:00 PM
Comment #84300

Since there isn’t any god, perhaps Monkeyboy is just hearing voices…is he schizophrenic? He sure is running the country like he has a few screws loose

Posted by: capnmike at October 7, 2005 5:02 PM
Comment #84312

Adrienne and Andre,

Adrienne, you have a very interesting belief and, since a “belief” is based on a conviction/often faith based it cannot be debated since you would not alter that belief.

Andre,

I agree with you when you say that Adrienne could not be more correct in her belief which suggests that her and your beliefs are the same on this position.

capnmike,
You state “since there is no GOD”. I assume your link to that proof will follow or, did you mean that in your opinion there is no GOD.

Posted by: steve smith at October 7, 2005 5:19 PM
Comment #84315

What really worries me is, what if the President suddenly one day said, ‘God told me to “deport” all muslims’.

Posted by: the english guy at October 7, 2005 5:21 PM
Comment #84320

“what we are taking about here is whether george bush actually thinks that his god told him to attack iraq”

Actually, what you guys are talking about is that “YOU” THINK Bush THINKS his god told him to attack Iraq.
I THINK you guys are grasping at straws, again. (Sigh)

Posted by: kctim at October 7, 2005 5:31 PM
Comment #84326

Elanor Roosevelt told Hillary Clinton to wage a pre-emptive war?! I never knew that.

Posted by: chantico at October 7, 2005 5:37 PM
Comment #84328

This administration gets worse by the day! Doesn’t fundamentalist terrorist groups say they are commanded by god to kill others, too?

Posted by: Linda at October 7, 2005 5:38 PM
Comment #84330

You guys are simply tooooo funny. I give an example of Hillary talking to the dead, its simply a metaphor. When Bush talks to God, which many many Americans do, he is crazy. Keep it up, I needed the good laugh after a long week.


Adrienne:
“She told the audience that she often has “Eleanor flashes,” moments where she feels inspired by a piece of the former First Lady’s practical advice. “When I mentioned to someone that I held imaginary conversations with Eleanor,” she said, “a few particular radio talk show hosts announced that they finally had evidence that I was as crazy as they had said I was.”

Here’s what the White House had to say about Hillary’s conversations at the time, according to Bob Woodward: The New York Times led off its first report with the White House’s interpretation of the relationship, in Michael McCurry’s carefully framed words, as that of “a graceful First Lady … listening to women with ideas and perspectives that differ from her own.”

In the first article, Hillary says she had conversations with Eleanor Roosevelt. A conversation is a two way street as you know, so I’ll be expecting your forthcoming comments to be claiming that Hillary is wacky. Unless you choose to disassociate yourself from your previous post.

Of course, I know these were imaginary conversations. I know she didnt mean she REALLY talked with Eleanor. But I’m just using your own statements of how you’d look at Hillary IFFF she admitted hearing Eleanor.

By the way, it appears that Hillary, along with Bush, talks with God. “Our spiritual life as a family was spirited and constant,” she wrote in “It Takes a Village,” her 1996 book, of the role of religion in her childhood. “We talked with God, walked with God, ate, studied and argued with God.”

Aint it a hoot when you all are forced by sheer facts to step back and realize that if you want to hoist Bush up onto this particular petard, you must also hoist one of your own.

Posted by: joebagodonuts at October 7, 2005 5:39 PM
Comment #84335

But the Supreme Court would have to declare these conversations unconstitutional, because of the separation of Church and State.
Then, a special prosecutor would be appointed. God, then, might have to retain counsel and be deposed, as to what he said and when he said it.
If the messages were delivered by angels, then they may even be jailed if they refused to provide certain information in order to protect their source.
And what if these conversations were recorded?
Could the president claim “Executive Privilege” and refuse to turn the manuscript scrolls over?

Posted by: Cole at October 7, 2005 5:45 PM
Comment #84346

jbod:
“Of course, I know these were imaginary conversations. I know she didnt mean she REALLY talked with Eleanor. But I’m just using your own statements of how you’d look at Hillary IFFF she admitted hearing Eleanor.”

I’ll repeat, if she admitted to hearing Eleanor actually reply, I say she’d be totally wacked. But an imaginary conversation with a dead person is just that — an imaginary and creative act of the mind — might seem a little odd to some people (though of course this is what writers do all the time), but definitely not crazy.
Like I said it’s the hearing of things that puts it in a whole different realm.

Posted by: Adrienne at October 7, 2005 6:13 PM
Comment #84348

Cole — funny post!

Posted by: Adrienne at October 7, 2005 6:16 PM
Comment #84350

This is very scary. I always was concerned what Bush may do as president, without a doubt this is more freigtnening than everything else put together! It seems that Bush is pushing elements of theocracy, which is evil incarnate. He has finally crossed the line! For violating The Seperation of Church and State, he must be ousted from the presidency. But I doubt this will happen because the nation has become heavily conservative. The conservative politicans will undoubtedly stand by Bush and his new “heavinly commands.”

Posted by: Selim at October 7, 2005 6:22 PM
Comment #84354

Gee, I don’t remember Hillary ever saying that Eleanor talked to her; only that she talked to Eleanor. I suggest that God did not whisper in Bush’s ear and that it was Karl Rove, after all Bush fell for selling WMD’s to Americans also. I clearly recall his saying that he looked into Putin’s eyes and saw his soul. Darn if I didn’t think only God could do that. Wonder what he thought when Putin didn’t back him on the invasion of Iraq? Interesting that there is so many who have professed to be Born Again Christians that are under indictment. I still think it will catch ya in the end if you use God to promote yourself or your agenda.

Posted by: Barbara at October 7, 2005 6:36 PM
Comment #84380

Steve:
“Adrienne, you have a very interesting belief and, since a “belief” is based on a conviction/often faith based it cannot be debated since you would not alter that belief.”

Uh…, come again?
You wish to debate me, but cannot? ;^)

Posted by: Adrienne at October 7, 2005 7:37 PM
Comment #84385

I don’t see how anyone could be faintly surprised that W believes God is telling him what to do. He certainly doesn’t have enough humility to question the possiblity. He has behaved from the first day he took office as though his agenda needed no information from outsiders such as the people he is supposed to be governing. And if ever there was a man who seemed skilled at taking direction, whether from Rove or God he is it. Just as unnerving is his propensity to make assertions which we are supposed to find convincing based, not on the revelations of any facts, but because he told us so. He does this as if we should all be reassured. But, what makes me most unsettled is that he likes to assume that innocent unblinking stare when he makes these statements that can be seen on the face of any four year old asserting that he didn’t take the cookies. I am amazed he doesn’t scuff his feet. If there was ever a public figure who I would be less likely to trust he is in a commercial describing his pristine used cars.

Joanne Redound

Posted by: Joann Redound at October 7, 2005 8:09 PM
Comment #84414

Just as you like accuse the neocons of doing, you libs will find “sources” to confirm whatever you have already made up your minds to believe in the first place. Look at all the people that came out of the woodwork to respond to this post! Hilarious. When you come up with actual evidence (written, video or audio) of Bush saying the things you claim he said, then I’ll listen to you.

Posted by: Gandhi at October 8, 2005 1:28 AM
Comment #84417

Gandhi,

You bet. We’ll get right on it. ROTFL

Posted by: Rocky at October 8, 2005 1:47 AM
Comment #84423
you libs will find “sources” to confirm whatever you have already made up your minds to believe in the first place.

You know, this sound kind of like intellgent design research: concluding that God made the universe and then finding evidence to support it and calling it science.

When you come up with actual evidence (written, video or audio) of Bush saying the things you claim he said, then I’ll listen to you.

No you won’t. You have already made up your mind about it, like you claim the liberals do.

Posted by: Daniel Pitt at October 8, 2005 3:39 AM
Comment #84430

Don’t those Evangelical God’s always want money too ???

How would he feel about giving God a “handout” ?

Posted by: Jason at October 8, 2005 6:33 AM
Comment #84436

To quote a future Nobel Laureate (IMO):

“Well, the God I believe in isn’t short of cash, mister.” —Bono

Oh, wait, never mind. Clearly Nobel prizes are some terrorist scheme to prop up enemies of the U.S. Why else would they award the Nobel Peace Prize to someone who told the U.S. that Iraq had no WMD?

The most disturbing thing about this whole issue is the underlying implication that maybe it’s feasible that God did talk to W and did tell him to invade Iraq (and give tax cuts to the rich?). I don’t think anyone has an issue if a person of faith uses his or her own beliefs and judgments to make personal decisions, as long as they are within the law. However, to claim a divine mandate in determining government policy, and specifically regarding an act of war, smacks of the Crusades.

There is no question that I am opposed to almost everything the President does (although John Roberts was a brilliant strategic nomination). However, much of that is because of this very issue: he has shown over and over again that he is unable to admit he is wrong. Why? Because one cannot be wrong (in his mind) if one is following a path chosen for him by God.

I can argue against his neo-con, pseudo-supply side policies all day long, but at the end of the day, that’s not what scares me about him. What scares me is that he seems to refuse to use actual facts and data in his evaluation of solutions. And that is the same issue I have with the ID folks (vs. evolution).

Posted by: moneysh at October 8, 2005 8:23 AM
Comment #84445
However, to claim a divine mandate in determining government policy, and specifically regarding an act of war, smacks of the Crusades.

What are you talking about? The Crusades were a great war, we were winning the war then and the only reason we lost it is because of those damned commie pinko lefties at home demoralizing our troops! If we’d stayed the course and served God’s will, there’d be a McDonalds and a church on every corner in the Holy Land, and the only place you’d hear “Allah Akhbar” would be at Achmed’s falafel and camel pancakes house! ;-)

Posted by: Jarin at October 8, 2005 10:18 AM
Comment #84450

Unless I am mistaken, all we have thus far as a basis for this premature discussion is a rumor that Bush said so and so to whoever and now the British Broadcasting System will be broadcasting this rumor.

As Gandhi stated in an earlier post, CREDIBLE EVIDENCE (documents, video or audio) of these alleged statements we will be able to consider the believability of the accusations.

Posted by: steve smith at October 8, 2005 10:44 AM
Comment #84465

Steve:

If this were the only time he’d made such statements, you’d be quite right. It’s not, though. He’s made these same statements right here in the US:

At the end of the session, Bush reportedly told the group, “I trust God speaks through me. Without that, I couldn’t do my job.’’ Originally from the Lancaster New Era, mirrored helpfully by FreeRepublic.com

He pledged to Africans, “You are not alone. America has decided to act.”

“I believe God has called us into action. Our country has got a responsibility, we are a great nation, we are a wealthy nation, we have a responsibility to help a neighbour in need, a brother and sister in crisis.”

He’s even said that he’s “carrying out divine commands” in front of Canadian Prime Minister Paul Martin.

The reason the left is making so much of these Bush quotes from the Palestinians is that they’re immensely credible based on what we’ve already heard Bush say elsewhere. They’re EXACTLY the same things he’s already been saying. His track record in this area serves to confirm the allegations.

Posted by: Jarin at October 8, 2005 2:29 PM
Comment #84467

If God told me to send others to murder for me how much time would I get 10 to life or eternity???
Bush is Nutts !!!hahaha just like I tell everybody this man is nutty as a jar of peanut butter!!!
Hay I got one question and I hope Bush can read…What does his voice sound like Red Fox, Barry White or George Burns????
Hay Bush you stole my e-mail and all my other personal information under the patriot act send me an e-mail or call me on my cell phone and tell me what does Gods voice sound like!!!
It is said no one has seen the face of God and lived to tell about…Well it would seem to me that if you can’t see him you can’t hear him Right???
In other words you gotta have a face to match a voice right?!!!
What Bush really needs is a couch!!!
Don’t take my word for it see for yourself!!!
http://www.willthomas.net/911/BUSH/

Posted by: Tom at October 8, 2005 2:49 PM
Comment #84469

Lets ask Preacher Robertson if he heard God telling W to wage war. That will be all the proof that the faithful will need.

Posted by: Calvin G. at October 8, 2005 3:04 PM
Comment #84472

Are Americans that much like sheep that they might actually believe our President ‘hears voices’?

[Ed. Note: Anti-Semitic comment removed.]

Posted by: Silent Majority at October 8, 2005 3:22 PM
Comment #84474

Geech, the left will try any kind of crack pot story to bash Bush.
If you really believe that crock of bull, I have Atlantic Ocean front property in Arizona I’ll sell you at a bargin.

Posted by: Ron Brown at October 8, 2005 3:30 PM
Comment #84475

Gee, I don’t remember Hillary ever saying that Eleanor talked to her; only that she talked to Eleanor.

It was both, And I’d believe that God talked to Bush before I’d believe that Hillary talked to Eleanor and vis versa.
But I don’t beieve God told Bush to invade Iraq.

Posted by: Ron Brown at October 8, 2005 3:33 PM
Comment #84477

Careul W. God might be considering a second burning Bush.

Posted by: Bill at October 8, 2005 3:35 PM
Comment #84478

—-
Careul W. God might be considering a second burning Bush.
—-

I think I could find religion with this? Come on God - just burn one more bush and I’d bet you’d double your following!

Please!?

Posted by: tony at October 8, 2005 3:42 PM
Comment #84479

Steve,
You wrote “”In the morning, O Lord, You Hear My Voice ; I lay my requests before you and wait in expectation.” Psalm 5:3” when speaking of “communication.” This shows that why I set up my arguments of what I believe is right/wrong vs. what is known to be Unalienable Right or Wrong Regardless on an issue, I must wait for Space and Time to either prove me Right or prove me wrong. I can assume that eating a second helping of corn won’t make me sick, but until I do and wait for it to pass through me I’ll never know. It works the same way on Thought.

Now if President Bush, Hillary, and/or anyone has these conversations with themselve we should call it “Critical Thinking.” Who better to have an intelligent conversation with than yourself because if you don’t know what you are talking about than how am I or others suppose to interpret your meanings. Where I have a problem is when President Bush and others say that “God” told him to do something for if Freewill is the greatest Gift given to man than “God” can only suggest.

Capnmike,
You said that “there isn’t any god” and give no base for your stand; however, I ask you a simple question. Why is it a fact that everything known to exist in the universe to include itself Consume something? And who or what made this fact the “Common Thread” of Knowledge, Life, and Wisdom? Is that “God” or is a Higher Being? I don’t know; however, I do know I want to play with these “Toys” that created all this consuming so who do I go talk to?

Intelligent Design or just a Realm of Thinking on how to explain why things are the way they are? Either way we can not disprove that something can exist without at least consuming Thought. Call it what you may, but “God” is close enough for most folks.

The larger question here though is America as a Nation and Society going to act on what we believe is Right or are we going to be governed by what we know to be Unalienable Right Regardless? I chose the latter how about you?

Posted by: Henry Schlatman at October 8, 2005 3:52 PM
Comment #84483

If God spoke to Mr. Bush, (non verbally I would presume) than why in the world God tell you to attack people who never attacked you. I thought that WMD was Bushes reason. So, which is it?
(A) God told him
(B) WMD (which was later blamed on bad intel.)
(C) Money and oil

I think we all know that C is the correct answer.

Posted by: Darby at October 8, 2005 4:51 PM
Comment #84496

I think God was more likely talking to Shrub when he snuffed all those lines of coke up his nose.

Perhaps the effect is just residual?

Posted by: Taylor at October 8, 2005 7:04 PM
Comment #84499

I do believe the White House version. Bush is a selfmade god who doesn’t take orders at all. And god herself? She’s enjoying a 3000-years long vacation and left without a trace. Personally I think you may find her in the non-arabic part of Jeruzalem.

regards from Holland, Bernie

Posted by: Bernie at October 8, 2005 7:34 PM
Comment #84511

File this one under “Fake but Accurate,” just behind Dan Rather’s Texas National Guard memos. As far as the lying liberals are concerned, it’s true because it’s funny. This has already been discredited, of course, but as the old saying goes: “a lie makes it halfway around the world before the truth gets its pants on.” Don’t expect any apologees anytime soon, conservatives… and remember, next time we have a chance to drive a stake through the Democrats’ heart— do it.

Posted by: Bird Jenkins at October 8, 2005 10:28 PM
Comment #84515

I am neither a lib. or conserv. I am a sane person that believes all politicians are bad they lie & change things to there likeing. Bush is just the latest to f&%# us over. All men that become President are rich and we are the pee ons. We need to unite to save ourselves. Why are we the biggest, baddest, best country and have Homeless and Hungry on our streets????

Posted by: Hollie at October 9, 2005 12:40 AM
Comment #84516

‘Drive a stake through a Democrats heart’. That is not political debate or discussion, that is hatred. It is an evil thing to say to another human being. At some point in this country’s history we let hatred of one another grow until we bloodied our own soil killing thousands of our own citizens. That was not terrorism. That was hatred.

If you were stepping off a curb next to me into the path of a car I would not ask your polital beliefs before I tried to yank you back to the sidewalk. I have a feeling you would do the same for me. This is a country where we can voice our discenting beliefs and argue with one another. Even during the peace movement that rose against the Vietnam war where we were screaming at one another across kitchen tables, we were still all Americans. There were a few who were consumed with that conflict, but most of us managed to keep our balance. I believe most people who have different opinions from mine are still people of good will. Judging from history each of us is partially right and partially wrong. But Democrats and Republicans are not enemies. They are part of that tug of war that keeps the nation in balance. When you stop attacking my ideas and begin attacking my person you have stopped being part of that tradition of democracy that we are supposed to be ‘teaching’ the people of Iraq to create. When you group people together and behave as though they are not as American as you are there is only a breath of difference between you and those people in Iraq who would rather die killing one another than come to a compromise with those who believe differently than they. When they kill one another in the street, it is hard to imagine they can ever reach that place of compromise and tolerance that democracy demands. When Americans treat one another like enemies we have little to teach anyone. And when we really need one another, the hatred may have become a chasm we cannot bridge. We have always been free to disagree with and even make jokes about our politicians. I wonder what our willingness to despise one another says about our future as a nation.

Posted by: Joann Redound at October 9, 2005 1:13 AM
Comment #84533

The Bible has been used in every Presidential swearing in ceremony except one (Teddy Roosevelt).

George Washington started the precedent of kissing the Bible as part of the ceremony. He also added the words “So help me GOD” to the oath. Many have followed suit.


Excerpt from FDR fireside chat 9/11/41
“And with that inner strength that comes to a free people conscious of their duty, and conscious of the righteousness of what they do, they will — with Divine help and guidance — stand their ground against this latest assault upon their democracy, their sovereignty, and their freedom.”


Excerpt from Clinton Innaug speech 1/20/93
“From this joyful mountaintop of celebration, we hear a call to service in the valley. We have heard the trumpets. We have changed the guard. And now, each in our way, and with God’s help, we must answer the call.

Thank you and God bless you all.”


Excerpt from JFG speech 7/15/60 accpting nomination
“But I believe the times demand new invention, innovation, imagination, decision. I am asking each of you to be pioneers on that New Frontier. My call is to the young in heart, regardless of age—to all who respond to the Scriptural call: “Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed.”


Excerpt from John McCain 2004 GOP Convention
On War & Peace: The War on Terror is a fight between good and evil
The awful events of 9/11 declared a war we were vaguely aware of, but hadn’t really comprehended how near the threat was, and how terrible were the plans of our enemies. It’s a fight between a just regard for human dignity and a malevolent force that defiles an honorable religion by disputing God’s love for every soul on earth. It’s a fight between right and wrong, good and evil. And should our enemies acquire for their arsenal the weapons they seek, this war will become a much bigger thing.
Source: 2004 Republican Convention Speech

Posted by: steve smith at October 9, 2005 12:31 PM
Comment #84537

Perhaps, a lot of these politicans are influenced by what is known as the Bible code. It is a book written by Michael Drosnin, a secular journalist. Read more here. It is something that is scientific, rational and accepted by all the top intelligence agencies. Besides, these Palestinian leaders, Arafat, Clinton and possibly even Bush.

With his very Christian background, it makes him feel even more certain that God and destiny are very much in force and in control here.

Posted by: Jackie Hunt at October 9, 2005 3:33 PM
Comment #84556

The “WAR AGAINST TERROR” almost seems to be a resurection of the Crusades.
The Great God of the Christens vs The Great God of Islam. Now let our Armies do Battle and watch the men die in the name of rightousness.
Ahmen

Posted by: Ron McCrumb at October 9, 2005 10:08 PM
Comment #84560

‘Drive a stake through a Democrats heart’.
Who are you? The Klu Klux Klan?

Posted by: Ron McCrumb at October 9, 2005 10:26 PM
Comment #84602

I feel quite sure that God spoke to George W. Bush. But of course George is always talking to himself!

Posted by: marionacole at October 10, 2005 6:15 AM
Comment #84614

Believing that God is directing your actions is a great way to avoid personal responsibility for anything — and for damned sure President Bush is good at that.

Posted by: American Pundit at October 10, 2005 9:05 AM
Comment #84641

I wonder why the religous right have not questioned this so-called speaking to God? they questioned the image of Jesus on a piece of toast and bought it on Ebay toooo!!!…Smile

Ya gotta Scratch ya head on that one!!!

They even questioned the cloth in which Jesus was supposedly buried in…It’s a wounder it too has not found it’s way to Ebay!!!

They questioned the image of Jesus in a tree and went to see the tree like it were meca!!!

I’m sure they would have bought the tree if it too were on Ebay…

“But lest they question conversation between God and the eternal burning “George Bush” for thy will surly burn in hell” is the political code phrase… So what do the so-called religious right do??? Keep their big holyier than tho traps shut!!!

And as far as that guy talking like he has been to one too many B-movies with that hatefull statement “Drive a stake through a Democrats heart” you need face the fact that Bush and his partners in crime have will say anything to get you to belive they can walk on water they’ll even play the lowest of the low game in politics “Smash Mouth” the game in which they say things like personal responsiblity God and loyalty to country while at the same time these rats find ways around the laws or changing laws to help the good ol boys who put them into power with big contributions while you and catch hell.

It’s well known that we the American people used to be the masters of our government now we are the sevants and the court jesters…

I keep trying to keep it inside but I can’t help it!!!…Hehehahaha!!!

Posted by: Tom at October 10, 2005 11:04 AM
Comment #84650
I feel quite sure that God spoke to George W. Bush. But of course George is always talking to himself!

Posted by: marionacole at October 10, 2005 06:15 AM

Morning All:
Two Things;
First, “Emporer George II” isn’t smart enough to speak to god, why do you think he keeps Karl Rove Around? Rove translates for him, putting god’s words in his mouth.
Secondly, What’s the “Emporer’s” nickname for god, seeing as to how he calls everyone by a name that he and only he, sees humor in?

Just Passing Through,
Wayne

Posted by: wayne at October 10, 2005 11:46 AM
Comment #84652

In the bible god sent an angel to talk to woman that would give birth to his child on earth. And yet god talks directly to Bush. I think I is getting closer and closer to loosing it completely. Anyway my hope is when he finally looses, I hope isn’t the president any more.

Posted by: Big Dog at October 10, 2005 12:07 PM
Comment #84664

Hey,

I have just figured it out. Man am I slow to get it.

Every president in my life time, from JFK to the present has claimed to be a god fearing man. A christian of some kind. If the right can believe, because Bush said so, that God told him to go into Iraq and Afganistan. Then by all means,

all Clinton has to do is say that god told him to have a sexual relationship with Monica.

God told George Bush Sr. to raise taxes.

God told Reagan to break the law and start Iran/Contra.

God told Carter, well, of all the presidents in my life time Carter is the only one who conducts his life as he preaches.

God told Ford to pardon Nixon.

God told Nixion to wire tap Democratic headquaters.

And finally God told Kennedy to have a relationship with Mrs. Monroe.

The funny thing is, in all of the above mentioned situations, only the great GWBush is using God as a cover for his actions. The others at least took responsibility for what became of their actions.

Posted by: Rusty at October 10, 2005 1:36 PM
Comment #84731

‘Drive a stake through a Democrats heart’.
Who are you? The Klu Klux Klan?

No that would be Robert Byrd, your great Democratic Senator (former majority/minority leader). Or as his Democrat friends call him, “Exalted Cyclops”.

Posted by: Bird Jenkins at October 10, 2005 8:17 PM
Comment #84824

You have to ask yourself:
What would you do in this situation?

While you’re sitting on the commuter train a gentleman takes the seat next to yours. After sitting quietly for a few minutes, he begins to speak. At first you assume he’s talking to you, so you turn to face him. It’s then that you realize he’s not talking to you; he’s carrying on a conversation with someone, but you’re not sure who? After looking around at the other commuters with similar blank faces, checking his ears for a blackberry cell phone device, it’s then that you realize that he’s carrying on a conversation with no one.

Shortly following, you get up from your seat and you move to another car.

Posted by: john trevisani at October 11, 2005 7:29 AM
Comment #84938

It’s pronounced GAWD, not GAAD, and Bush needs him so that he won’t go back to being an obnoxious drunk. The religion thing with them is just pure hypocrisy anyway. They just want to make the rules that OTHER people have to follow, not them. They believe that “the end justifies the means”, which is against any religion I’ve ever known.

One good and surprising thing that Bush did was to bring the Dalai Lama to the White House, risking offense to China. I’m surprised how little media coverage it got.

Posted by: ray at October 11, 2005 2:16 PM
Comment #85004

When God speaks to Osama bin Laden and Al Qaeda and asks them to carry out their Jihad its considered terrorism. So what is it called when God speaks to Bush and asks him to invade Afghanistan, Iraq, etc.?

Posted by: Rob at October 11, 2005 10:39 PM
Comment #85233

Meirs, Bush and the Mission from Gaad.

It’s amazing: Here we are in ther 21st century still unable to (collectively) think our way out of the mental ‘religious’ bonds imposed in the 1st. Bush is today cited as using Miers religion as a chief factor for nominating her to the Supreme Court. How utterly sad. Case law, & critical thinking be damned; she’s religious!

But then, what should I have expected from someone who hears a voice telling him to invade
Iraq and kill Iraqis for what Saudis did on 911?
And in implimenting his ‘divinely directed’ war, created a smoke srceen of what has turned out to be utterly prevaricated causes?

But then again, his approval ratings are now dipping below 30%, so maybe, just maybe, there is hope.


Posted by: Blogical at October 12, 2005 2:02 PM
Comment #85790

yes, in the Bible, God indeed did send intermediaries to speak to man rather than speaking to them directly. one possible explanation for this is that God’s voice is so powerful that mortal ears can not handle hearing it. kevin smith actually invented a specific angel designed for this very purpose and this purpose only in “dogma.” hey, if the angel is as sexy as alan rickman’s metatron, bring it on.

as for all this religious discussion, i simply say that like the aforementioned kevin smith, i abhor ALL belief systems. beliefs are narrow, rigid and incapable of change. i don’t HAVE beliefs; i do have some rather strong IDEAS though (ideas being flexible enough to be changed if proven wrong or if new information arises.)

Posted by: shiela at October 14, 2005 10:28 AM
Comment #86403

Reviving a dead thread, I know, but thought people should be aware that the PBS aired version of Elusive Peace is, according to my filetrading friends, an almost 30 minutes shorter edit than that shown by the BBC. It may be that God had something to do with that. ;)

People are isolating the content difference between the two but I’ve not yet located a transcript.

Posted by: USA-NH-Conway at October 18, 2005 10:47 AM
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