Democrats & Liberals: Archives

Corruption is always a problem, but there is no indication that it is getting worse. Transparency International lists countries from least corrupt to most corrupt. The most honest countries are places like Finland, Denmark and New Zealand. The U.S. is number 17, a place it shares with Ireland and Belgium.

A disturbing trend has been for both sides to try to criminalize political disagreement. When political decisions go against you, you can’t call that corruption.

You also blame the capitalist system for corruption, but every example of corruption you give is of governments (large and small) giving away tax money to special friends. Maybe we have given government more scope in the economy than it can reasonably handle.

I would like to address one aspect of your post. That the wealthy are assumed to walk out of a courtroom because of their wealthy representation. Exceptions to this are rare. If you look at the prison populace you will see the under-educated, the poor, people of color and people with mental disorders. Prisons have become big business in our nation. In my state, PA, it is the largest and only growing industry. Workers here have been displaced due to outsourcing and that fact that many were basically blue collar workers. Prisons are built in mainly conservative republican regions of the state to insure jobs and economic growth there. To compound the problem, those in prison (who are basically inclined to be democrats)are denied the vote, thus making the state appear to be more republican. There are many innocent people in prison. They are coerced into taking plea bargains while threatened with mandatory sentencing. Their court appointed or public defender attorneys are often under-staffed, under-paid, over-worked and often not educated in criminal law. They usually meet with the defendants on the day of their trial, prepared to offer them a plea bargain (arranged with the D.A.) and to tell them of the almost certain consequences they will face if they don’t submit. Many of the trade schools here are now focusing on careers in corrections. Starting pay is $45,000/yr. with almost $10,000 additional in medical benefits. To ensure these jobs, plain and simply, they need prisoners. Where do they find them? It certainly isn’t among the wealthy.

It wasn’t long ago that politicians used to say they wouldn’t even accept the appearance of impropriety. I haven’t heard that sort of talk uttered.

Look at the language surrounding the Rove/Plame issue. Bush said today that “if someone committed a crime they will no longer work in my administration.” I guess that means it’s now acceptable for a White House official to spend 6 months on trial before being let go.

The problem is that when we, as a society, allow the president of the united states to commit a felony and NOT run him out of the job but instead treat him as some great leader it really prevents those that support him from claiming the high ground going forward.

I guess that means it’s now acceptable for a White House official to spend 6 months on trial before being let go.

Yeah, stupid ‘innocent until proven guilty’ believers getting in the way of taking down Rove…

Rhinehold,

I agree 100%, if Clinton had been run out of office, we may not be in the political turmoil we are in now…It “prevents those that support him from claiming the high ground going forward”. We would have a much firmer position to advance our own agenda.

Andre,

Just keep grinding it out…

Just saying “We need to step up and hold the government accountable” is shallow and myopic at best.

It’s so easy to point out problems, anyone can do it. Put something constructive together and then we’ll talk.

I like to complain about the corruption in politics as much as the next guy. But you have stated some things that just don’t match history. For one, the top few percent controlling the majority of the wealth has been going on since as far back as there was wealth to control.
Second, there is an increasing trend for the wealthy being convicted and sent to jail over the past 25 years, in spite of the headlines.
I usually agree with the posts in this blog, but yours seems to rail on without facts. I’ll be glad to support your premise if you can back it up with substance.

Andre - sources, please. There seems to be a lot of redunancy between this post and your July 12 post that garnered an impressive 250 comments.

Donna~

Now I’ve certainly heard it all! Republicans are jailing innocent Democrats to insure that the area “appears” to be Republican and they can then deny their vote!!HAHAHA You need to start a comic strip seriously!!

Donna,

I don’t know where you got your information that most of the incarcerated people in PA are Democrats. The Democrats won the state of PA in the last election by 51%-49%.

I guess we just didn’t put enough Democrats in jail. We wouldn’t do that anyway, do you know how much money it costs to keep 1 prisoner in jail?

We need that money for ourselves. We divide it up equally to line our pockets with it. We are running out of ways to steal money from the taxpayers.

You’re on to us Donna, A one time brilliant plan of putting democrats in jail so they can’t vote is now exposed, and I will let you know also, that was Rove’s idea. I am sure he will come up with another one soon. Stay tuned.

Cliff,

I thought writing to those that represent us and voicing our concerns would suffice as a constructive way to combat political corruption.

Please check out this website: prisonsucks.com I have lots of paper literature, but don’t have all the websites readily available, while they have many links to statistics that support my claims. There are many states that disenfranchise voters not only while incarcerated but also for life. Because the prison population is mainly comprised of the poor, etc. and they have been polled as to their political affiliation, it was determined that they would register/vote for democrats if able. While it is true that PA had the most % of the votes for Kerry, this is not so in our state legislature. To scoff at what I have claimed without researching the facts is easy to do. I have been involved with reform in our state’s judicial system as an advocate for many years and I have only touched on a small part of what goes on. It may sound incredulous to those who aren’t aware of this problem, but Sen. Hillary Clinton tried to pass legislation to allow prisoners to vote across the US. Why? Because most would chose to vote as Democrats…because most (not all) have been victimized simply because they did not have competant representation. I’m not beginning to claim that they are all innocent, just that they should be given the same opportunities and justice of those that can afford to “buy it”. Our overall corruption starts with the little guy, those who are considered the expendible of our nation. As Bush claimed when running for the past election, “the haves, the have-nots and his favorite audience, the have-mores”.

Donna~

I am definately not disputing that most people in these prisons are Dems.! Most welfare, criminals, un-educated etc. are in fact because they know the Democrats want to give them stuff w/out trying.But I will NEVER believe that they are there BECAUSE they ARE Dems.! That is absurd!
Actually I think it’s sad to admit that!

A way to get more votes is to convince the non-criminal types to become Democrats(This may be harder, but life is not easy)! It is only reasonable to say if you break the law, you forfeit your ability to vote!

Funny how the left did not want to count military votes, but now according to Donna, they want to wrangle up the criminal vote!
Oh, the hypocrasy!

Tracy,
“Funny how the left did’nt want to count military votes”
Where are you getting your information?

The true hypocrisy is that people voted for a man because of his character and moral fiber, then excuse him every time he demonstrates that he lacks both.

You say you support our troops but support an administration that did not properly equip them, cuts their benefits,poorly planned for a war that’s costing their lives and lied to them about their purpose for being there.

You folks use the word of Christ(Love) to justify your hate for people who are not like you.

You say you’re good Americans, yet you want to deny other Americans their costitutional rights.

You say that you care about your fellow man and at the same time, even after the FBI reports there were interrogators torturing prisoners at Guantanamo Bay, you turn a blind eye to this group of thugs in the White House.

Bush supporters are the true hypocrites.

Was I misleading? I said the poor, undereducated, people of color, mentally ill, etc. are mainly those in prison and that once they had been exposed to our corrupt, unequal legal system that they would choose to vote democratic. It is coincidental that those incarcerated are usually democrats politically before being charged with a crime. Why, because they are the very people who are discriminated against by the wealthy and/or privileged. To blindly claim that these people are merely freeloaders is ludicrous. Many have not been given a chance to succeed in life. I think you missed my point, that a lot of INNOCENT people are incarcerated because they don’t have the means to procure adequate legal counsel. The sad fact is that rich, white, males usually don’t get put into prison. When they do, it is the exception, not the rule. Is it because they are less criminally inclined? Or, is it because they are able to afford better attorneys? The scales of justice are not even! By the way, I think our military men/women should definitely always be able to vote. What, are the republicans afraid of the oooo, scary, criminals voting? Oh, I forget that they aren’t considered as human beings or citizens anymore. I can even recall that women and blacks were once denied the vote.

Andre,

It’s about solutions, not complaints. Most people have no time set aside for whiners. There are other sites that have plenty of that.

Now, how can we assist in taking the corruption out of government? You will first have to define corruption. Then we need show the difference between corruption and the spoils of winning elections.

Andre,

Get a grip man…Your facts are just that “yours”. If that’s all you got, it’s not much. Glittering generalities about Gitmo and all the lies that everyone believed. (I’m sure one of these prisoners has died and you can’t wait to trash whoever, and I’m sure you knew all about the WMD not existing and the majority of the population were just manipulated along with the rest of the world!)

Please tell me what you really want, other then “get rid of Bush”. Put something constructive together and post it.

Andre~

Do your own homework…it was a big discussion this election year…..many a Dem. did not want to wait for the absentee votes to come in(a large % of those just happen to be the military)!

Donna~

No, I’m not scared of their vote, but PRISON would be the place that I would think (reasonably) you lose privileges! (Charles Manson should not be making any life decisions)!
To be honest though….let em’ vote….I’m sure it will go over just like the youngsters were suppose to this election year!!

One more thing….many people are against odds…and DON’T end up in prison! Tell those folks it’s not the others fault! Each individual chooses their path!

Don’t even try comparing blacks/women (voting)to CRIMINALS! Talk about apples and oranges!

Funny how the democratic liberals are accused of being students, college professors, upper-class elitists and other types of intelligencia who don’t work for a living, and then the party is said to be largely uneducated, poor, minority welfare recipients and criminals(at least by Traci). So I guess the Democratic Party consists of the intelligent, educated, minority, uneducated, stupid, white upper-class, criminal, priveleged, underpriveleged and welfare leeches. Gee, that pretty much includes everybody! I’ll go along with that.

Cole~

Sorry about your reading skills, but if you re-read the posts, you would see that it was Donna who decided that those in question were Democrats…..I simply agreed! Try your “spin” else where!

Well. My Constructive Advise would be to encourage Young Republicans to Enlist. This way the Parents of said Republicans would no longer be hypocrites about Bush. The problem we have now is that not enough people have a stake in Iraq. Forcing the Young Conservatives into Uniform will change that.

Kindly post your name and email below if you want to enlist.

many a Dem. did not want to wait for the absentee votes to come in

Traci, I don’t know about “many a Dem”, but the Party organization wanted a complete state-wide recount - including the military votes. George Bush promptly filed a lawsuit to have it stopped. He didn’t want anybody’s votes counted, including the military votes.

Transparency International lists countries from least corrupt to most corrupt.

That’s an interesting site, Jack. Did you notice that USA has been dropping (becomming more corrupt) since Bush took office?

Cliff,

Did you read the post?

I stated very clearly that we should write to our representatives in government as a way to start taking back our role as the true leaders of the U.S. government. Every time someone questions something about this sad and misguided administration the sheep call it whining.

Traci,

“Many a Dem” If you parrot The conservative talk shows long enough, you begin to sound equally vague and confused.

Aldous:

Blah!

Donna,

I have not yet decided in my mind whether the prisoner vote should be approved.

What I am sure of is that any poll that comes from a prison is not worth the paper it is written on. The poll should be a two parter :

Question 1 Are you a Republican or Democrat
Question 2 Are you innocent or guilty

Aldous,
Do you cut and paste that ridiculous comment about Republicans enlisting? If we printed a page for every time you have said it, we could commit suicide jumping off the stack of paper.

The Problem With the U.S. Government

Clicked on this link thinking it might be interesting reading. Everyone is certainly entitled to his or her opinion.However, I don’t see how we can ever remedy the problem of government corruption if we can’t even post without being argumentative. I don’t care what political party you support, there is corruption in all politics. How can we get rid of some of it?