Democrats & Liberals: Archives

My first thought was ” We should not be stooping to their level”, my second, I have to admit, was that it’s payback time for “The swift boat” ads

Please let us not forget how much money MoveON.Org spent. Please let us forget how much money George Soros spent. Please not forget how Dan Rather “tried” to drop a bomb a week before the election only to find himself sitting on it.

The Swiftboat campaign costed less then 10% then the massive Bush Hater campaign. The Swiftboat campaign brought to light the truth of Christmas in Cambodia while Nixon sat in the WhiteHouse (Kerry wasn’t in Cambodia and Nixon wasn’t in the WhiteHouse).

Your outrage at this type of ad, I say it is about time because it is just more of the same in a long line of ads.

Political party affiliation aside, I as a voting American continue to be appalled at the pre-election campaigns of candidates at every level. The ads have become nothing more than attacks on the opponent. It is truly disgusting and does not instill pride in the campaign process.

Military service of an exemplary nature is no better (for campaign purposes) than service of a marginal nature.

Now we have families of candidates involved in campaigns which further add to the feeding frenzy of discrediting candidates. As well, the debates are a joke.

Could you provide a link?

As for Bush’s victory, he fought hard and viciously to keep his job, and we did not make it easy for him. The Democrats did need to hit back on the relevant issues, but not everything can be laid at their feet.

You don’t have to be stunned.
Just do what the left does for everything else, blame Bush, Rove and the evil right for this ad.
They created it and got it aired just so they could make the left look silly.
Come on man, the ‘06 elections are right around the corner.

Andre…

Elmer Fudd could have beaten G.W. in 04. How could the Democrats support that bad of a candidate, not argue against all that Bush and Cheney had done in the previous four years and sit back and allow themselves to be smeared in the media for actually fighting, not dodging the Vietnam war. I now have the answer. The Democratic party.

You’re pretty close. It’s not the Democratic Party. It’s the leadership of the Democratic Party that is directly to blame for 2004.

March 5, 2003. The Dixie Chicks’ Natalie Maines says that she’s ashamed that Bush is from Texas.

Reaction?

Radio pulled the Dixie Chicks (and radio hasn’t re-added them as of yet…) and the hearland of America was completely outraged.

What did the Democratic leadership do?

Nothing.

A massive “red flag” ran up the flagpole and there was absolutely no reaction from the Democratic leadership to calm down the heartland. All there was was an arrogant”she has the freedom of speech to say what she wants” reaction.

Arrogance will not win an election.

The “Hate Fest”. Whoopi Goldberg compared the president to her public hair.

Reaction?

Once again, the hearland went nuts. Basic, decent people in the heartland have an abiding respect for the office of the presidency…even though it’s been smeared plenty of times. Whoopi’s comparison (even though it was a joke) sent up another huge red flag.

Once again, it was ignored by the Democratic leadership. Once again, the response was arrogance.

What did I say before?

Arrogance will not win an election.

The Swifboat Veterans. Did the Democratic leadership rise to the occasion? Did they trash the Swifties? Did the Democratic leadership pummel the Swifties into non-existance?

Not until it was way too late…and then with way too little.

Ignore it and it will go away is not the way to win an election.

The Dan Rather Incident. What did the Democratic leadership do? Did they decry CBS’ timing of the story? And when it was finally determined that the documents were a hoax, did the Democratic leadership do the right thing and denounce CBS?

No. The response was…”well, the documents may be forged, but they are correct.”

Can anyone here think of a more arrogant answer than that?

What did I say before?

Arrogance will not win an election.

How did Kerry lose the election against a president that “Elmer Fudd could have beaten”?

The Democratic leadership did not pull their head out of the sand. The Democratic leadership was silent when they should have been vocal. And finally, the Democratic leadership responded to percieved outrages in the heartland of America with arrogance.

I stand corrected. The Democratic leadership continues to stand by and allow the Republicans to appear like the stronger party.
You’d think that someone within the party would make an attempt at unification instead of Dean’s name calling, that embarasses and removes the credability from the rest of the Democrats.
The person who steps up and addresses the problems of the party and can help the other members to work together to fix them, should by default be the person who runs in 08.

Andre,

I posted this in a recent article that David wrote, I think it fits in your’s also;

David,

I tend to agree with most of your article, I think Dem.’s will snatch defete from the jaws of victory. (again)
I think alot of the problem is that Dem.’s controled congress for so many years(untill the last decade)that the old school Democrats like Kennedy, Schumer,even Kerry, just can’t change.

What worked 25-30 yrs ago wont work now.
The issues have changed, their base has changed, and the media and internet allow much more information to the voters.

I get chastized every time I offer advice to the left, so I wont bother.
There are some simple, painless things they could do, but time is running out.

Without sweeping changes in leadership the party is doomed IMO.

Posted by Beagle at July 6, 2005 08:26 AM

Andre-
My brother has a phrase for this kind of second guessing: a circulary firing squad.

We don’t need somebody who takes the bait every time the Republicans lash out. What we need is somebody who eloquently defends our beliefs, and our respect for diversity.

What we don’t need is protestings of unworthiness. We deserved to win this last time, but deserving victory and getting it are two different things. The challenge is to counter the toxic discourse on the right without joining it.

Jim T said,

“March 5, 2003. The Dixie Chicks’ Natalie Maines says that she’s ashamed that Bush is from Texas.

Reaction?

Radio pulled the Dixie Chicks (and radio hasn’t re-added them as of yet…) and the hearland of America was completely outraged.

What did the Democratic leadership do?

Nothing.”

I don’t know too many people who miss hearing the Dixie Chicks anyway. It’s probably the best thing that happened to them because now you have to buy the CD or go to a concert. They get more from that than radio royalties.

As far as the radio not playing their stuff, are they not exercising their rights to air what they feel is appropriate.

The other examples you gave, I think in the Whoopi Goldberg one you meant “pubic” hair not “public” hair. (I think the body part reference is important to your point)

Dan Rather should know better. As long as he has been around and to make an intern’s mistake in the name of rushing to judgement on behalf of the left.

“We deserved to win this last time, but deserving victory and getting it are two different things.”

Come on Stephen. How the hell did you “deserve” to win?
The majority of the people rejected the lefts message.
Your party would do well to take the advice Andre offered in his last post.
This is our message, take it or leave it, obviously isn’t working. To many people have left.
You constantly call upon Bush to acknowledge his mistakes, now its your party’s turn to take its own advice.

Andre,

You highlighted a series of opportunities you believe missed by the DNC. As liberals, we are moved by those topics. Conservatives, however, and this is completely obvious, think differently.
According to polls, Bush won because, perversely enough, more voters thought he was the more “moral” candidate. Schiavo could have been a topic to move the conservative voter away from the “moral” economic and foreign policy bungler. The unquoted topics are the reasons he won by so little and his ratings are so low now. I believe those ratings will continue to drop as people come to grips with how misled they were by his “hale fellow well met, united we stand” mannerisms vs. his “kill the opposition, win at all costs, even if I have to divide this nation in half” actions.
BTW, living in MA and not seeing any presidential adds for 2004, I too was in shock when I went to FL and saw the ads. I was appauled and can only hope enough people say the same thing so maybe some civility can return.

If the Democrats want my vote, they’re going to have to 1) understand why I vote Republican almost every time and 2) convince me that their ideas are better.

I came of voting age during Bush 1’s candidacy. Since then I tend to vote Republican because the Republican candidate typically reflects more of my views and ideals than the Democractic candidate does - namely respect for life, justice and making something of yourself. The Democrats have always seemed to me the party that pot-smokers vote for. Obviously those are both gross generalizations - some of you will heartedly deny either characterization and some of you will nod your heads knowingly.

So if the Democrats want my vote, they’ll have to come across as caring about life (of the innocent, not of murderers), about justice and for the individual (not for labels or classes).

But how will they convince me that their ideas are better? That’s a tough one… statistics lie and history is written by the winners. Will they have to adopt new ideas? Adapt ones they already have? Or will they have to make stronger cases to back up their plans, or at least make them more accessible?

Dave, the left turns a blind eye when its their party and the right turns a blind eye when its theirs.
Civility will not return until the people start looking past this party first nonsense.

Steve,

I think you may have missed my point. It’s not whether or not radio chooses to play an artist or not, it was the massive reaction to the statement. That reaction was almost completely ignored by the Democratic leadership. Same thing for the Whoopi “pubic” (although “public” is what it finally turned out to be…ha!) hair incident.

If the Democratic leadership had made a gesture, a nod if you will, to the heartland in either of these incidences, we may not have seen so many “red” states in the last election.

Steven,

We don’t need somebody who takes the bait every time the Republicans lash out. What we need is somebody who eloquently defends our beliefs, and our respect for diversity.

You are right that Democrats need someone like that, but so do Republicans. Politics in this country needs to simmer down. It needs to return to quiet, calm discussions of how we can move this country forward.

What neither party…nor the voters…need is a bunch of crass, no class jerks who call themselves “party leaders”.

Want my vote? BE the better candidate instead of making everyone think you are. I may or may not vote party-first, but I sure vote against arrogant a-holes, and Kerry came off like an arrogant a-hole. And let’s not even talk about Mrs. Heinz-Kerry.

I am a firm believer that “talking” is just that “talking”!

I vote Republican because I know I can be all the things the left says Republicans are incapable of (kindness, peace, hope, love, etc.) and still be WISE about who REALLY cares about my future.

Just because Democrats scour the country sucking up minority asses for their vote dosn’t mean they have the monopoly on racial issues!
Believe it or not but Republicans are not out to “get” minorities, elderly, etc.! They just feel as though they have enough support that they don’t have to go around scaring these people in their direction!

Watching Kerry walk around w/ that stupid rifle was the funniest thing I ever saw! It looked like an audition for a Michael Moore movie!
Democrats keep saying their message is just not getting heard….THATS NOT TRUE! We hear it loud and clear, it’s just to funny to take seriously! Everything they do is way to over the top to seem the least bit genuine…kind of like an SNL skit.

Wow Traci!!! That brand of right wing venom is the exact reason we have such a divisive fight in this country. You could get a job at Faux News.
Please please please tell me how the reps are helping the poor, the children, or working families. Wait.. better yet, show me some substational legislation the reps have put forward to better the lives of our men and women in combat and their families. Good luck hunting, there’s not much.

Traci,

The rifle thing was great, what a turd. The only thing I was hoping he would do was set fire to an American Flag in support of his Constitutional right to do so.

Jim T,

I agree with you. When you allow entertainers to support political candidates you deserve what you get. We got the Terminator.

YellowDogDem, you should know that one of my reasons for being Republican is precisely because of the racial issue - I feel that Democrats are doing non-whites a disservice by keeping them “separate.” I feel that everyone on this planet should be seen as individuals and treated as individuals but I think Dems feel that people should be kept in groups and pitted against one another. I hear the Dems claim that Republicans are out to “get the black man” or some other bull while pointing out certain pieces of legislation. There is a vast difference in the mindset… Republicans don’t feel the need to differentiate Americans, but Democrats sure do. Gore lost my vote when he said that the “right Americans” should get tax breaks. How dare he! The Democrat’s message IS clear - some of you are good Americans and some of you aren’t, some of you are right Americans and some of you are wrong Americans, some of you need help (blacks) and some of you need to be hurt (whites).

The Republican’s message: We’re all Americans.

Yelladog
“Please please please tell me how the reps are helping the poor, the children, or working families”

If your openminded enough, go to whitehouse.gov and look at the issues. They have the answers your looking for.
You may not agree with them, but they are being addressed.

Well said Trace.
Here’s whats odd though.
We believe we are ALL Americans and should be treated as equals.
We don’t believe Americans should be divided into groups. Pandered to for votes. Treated as if we can’t take care of ourselves. Lying to scare up more votes. The list goes on and on.
But yet, we are the divisive ones?

kctim~

Exactly, and when I discuss things w/ “minorities” I always ask them, “Would you rather have someone speak to you as an American or as a “less than” minority group that could not manage to breath w/out the Democrats help”!

To me its insulting to say they need special treatment……it’s like saying they are another species not just another ethnicity.

The thing that amazes me is that all of the posters who think Bush should not be President and, have criticisms a pile of which could sink a ship have had one missing ingredient for the past two terms -A CANDIDATE.

It is a poor worker who blames everything on his tools.

You Democrats and Liberals have a lot of ideas, some of them even credible. What you don’t have is someone who can convince the public to vote for him.

steve smith~

It’s because they can’t get past their own infatuation w/ certain people (Hilary, Kerry, etc.)!

They would rather go down w/ their sinking ship rather than nominate someone else, as long as Hilary’s already overblown ego is stroked, they are happy to be lapping at her heals!

Oh well, the circus is a fun show…..elephant ear anyone?(funnel cake for some of you):)!

Wow, you rightests need to listen to yourself from a neutral perspective. All I hear is complaints over how divisive, obsesive, and stupid the democrats are and and how inclusive and understanding republicans are; all the while exampling how hateful, divisive, self-righteous, stupid, and ignorant people can be without even knowing it.

No wonder this country’s gone to crap. Maybe we can survive this as a nation without another civil war but it’s not looking good. I’m fairly sure this will get deleted but I had to get it off my chest.

I believe I’ve seen the Commercial in question, and my only question afterwards is:

What’s the big deal?

What this ad says is true, and it’s what we’re really worrying about. Bush did indeed invade the medical privacy of the Schiavos, signing into a law a bill aimed at her in particular.

And now, if his nominations for the appellate courts are any guide, there’s a serious risk that he’s going to put his own judicial activists on the bench.

Andre, I think this is circular firing squad behavior. How are we supposed to oppose Republican abuses, if we aren’t bold enough to speak of those abuses in strong, truthful language like MoveOn did here?

Andre:

Let’s look at all of the complete and total failures that this administration has ownership of. The Iraq war, Social Security reform, “No Child Left Behind”, the Haliburton investigation, the “Downing Street Memos”, 9/11, Homeland Security improvements, Trade Deficit, skyrocketing debt, Abu Graib, Gitmo, approximately 1,740 grieving families and a divided nation. There are many more but i’d like to get to the point.

I think you overstate this. The Bush admin has had failures, but I think complete and total failure is extreme in many of these cases. Not to mention, how does the Bush admin take “ownership” of 9/11 as a complete and total failure? Are you saying 9/11 was Bush’s “complete and total” fault? That seems unfounded and vicious.

Andre:

I stand corrected. The Democratic leadership continues to stand by and allow the Republicans to appear like the stronger party.

Realistically, I think the Republican party is currently the stronger party. The problem I’m having as a conservative-non-republican is with their leadership, just as Dems should be having a major problem with their leadership. More of the same vitriolic crap.

Beagle:

I get chastized every time I offer advice to the left, so I wont bother. There are some simple, painless things they could do, but time is running out.

Without sweeping changes in leadership the party is doomed IMO.

I get chastized or ignored from both sides. I agree, they are doomed. They have locked themselves into some candidates who can’t carry a message.

Steve Smith:

I don’t know too many people who miss hearing the Dixie Chicks anyway.

Amen, brother. My wife was a big fan, but trashed her CDs as soon as this came out. Typical youngster who got swept up in the moment, then tried to justify it. Pitiful.

kctim and traci:

You two should get married and spawn many intelligent kids together. I appreciate your posts. I have long thought the Dems/libs were the height of hypocracy in the minority issue area. With people like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton in their midst, showing up only when the cameras are on and they can continue to demagogue the issue makes me sick. If you apply their messages, it actually forces the wedge deeper between races. Time for them to be jetisoned from the Dem party—for their own good.

Chi Chi~

I about busted a gut when I read your comment!HAHAHA
kctim and I have been carrying on like a couple of school kids w/ a crush lately, so I thank you for your blessing and don you the great honor of godparent!!HEEHEE
Thank-you for the compliment, I too have enjoyed your posts also!:)

What is this, the IMMA of the RNC?

Chi Chi

I should have written his reaction to and handling of the 9/11 attacks. My bad.
ex.Opposing the 9/11 commission, Invading Iraq and excluding the rest of the world in our overzealous and foolish pursuit of the war on terror.

Andre
“Of all the things we could have attacked this administration for, these Democratic lobbyists spent millions, I’m guessing, attacking his stance on Terri Schiavo”

No sarcasm here, just an honest question.
What “factual” issue do you think would best convey your message that you “don’t want a Supreme Court Justice who is “Far Right?”

I agree that the Schiavo case is the wrong way to go. Polls were showing what? 70% sided with the husband.
This is one issue that seems to be in the lefts bag and by a majority. Why attack what you have already won, right.
I’m not sure how the Dems should handle the justice nominee but I think our massive debt the Reps have built could help them in the next elections.

Personally, I think the Democrats need to try and welcome back some of their past supporters. That is if they wish to win.

It just dawned on me - what will we do if Jeb Bush decides to follow in the footstep of his Dad, and Brother?

Just something to think about!

Linda H.

The Democrats and Republicans are not seperate parties. Both function without accountability. Both parties, through past and present legislation, have created a sytem that has actually incorporated corruption into mainstream politics.Campaign financing and fundraising, Lobbying, “Earmarks”, Special Interest Groups are creative words to mask or at least encourage corruption.”Last year 15,584 seperate “Earmarks” worth 32.7 billion dollars were attached to appropriations bills. They were added anonymously and frequently during last minute, closed-door sessions of appropriations committees”.
This is no longer a two party Democracy. It is a power grab.
If you get a chance, read “The Great American Pork Barrel: Washington Streamlines the Means of Corruption” by Ken Silverstein.
Tom Delay, Randy”Duke” Cunningham,V.P.Cheney,Govs. Sundquist and Bredesen are not functioning outside the system. They are utilizing our existing sytem of government to manipulate,lie,influence and steal from the people they are supposed to be representing.
When I speak out against the Bush administration I do so as an individual,not a member of a particular party. I happen to think the only person who may run in 08 that’s worth voting for is SEN. John McCain(Rep.)
The point of the article is that Democrats had a chance to speak out against this administration (I support anyone who speaks out against this administration)and they blew it. Speaking out has become the responsability of the few, uncorrupted public officials we have left. I don’t hear any, do you?

Jeb Bush would be a terrific candidate.

Yeah, because Jeb has so many good qualities, like, er, well, his last name is Bush!

This blog has been hijacked by the kctim and traci show, both of them unable to perceive the slightest bit of problem with a policy set that basically tells everyone with a problem that it’s theirs to solve, I’ve got mine, so deal with it. Just like we told the Iraqis. Oh, never mind, we had to help them ‘cause Bush’s dad was threatened by Sad-dam.

You guys slay me.

[Mental Wimp, your critique of kctim and traci as having hijacked this blog is not in keeping with our Critique the Message, Not the Messenger, policy. Please refrain from such personal characterizations if you wish to retain posting privileges here at WatchBlog. —WatchBlog Managing Editor ]