Democrats & Liberals: Archives

According to the questionnaire I am an Enterpriser. Probably would have been a Social Conservative if I didn’t think the government incapable of fairly handling moral issues since they either don’t do anything or go too far, and I prefer they err on the side of less restrictions.

Interesting.
From the descriptions above, I would have put myself somewhere between disaffected and social conservative. According to the test, I am an enterpriser. I generally fit in with what the site said about enterprisers, but not completely.
For example, it said they show “very little support for government help to the poor.” I, for one, do support government helping the poor, although I don’t think we go about it in ways that work very well.
It’ll be fun to see what it says about everyone else…

I would have placed myself between ‘Disaffected’ and ‘Bystander’.

The test rated me as ‘Liberal’. Who knew that you could be for balanced budgets and free trade, and against minimum wage hikes and expanded welfare, and still be Liberal? :-)

This poll is bogus. It said I was an Enterpriser too..I’m reading the Enterpriser synopsis and I barely fit in that category.

Fun article, Lawnboy.
It’ll be interesting to see how some WB regulars rated on the questionaire.
No surprises for me. Yay! I’m a Liberal.

Yes. Fun article. I mostly agree with my categorization (Upbeat)…
_________________________
Upbeat:
Based on your answers to the questionnaire, you most closely resemble survey respondents within the Upbeat typology group. This does not mean that you necessarily fit every group characteristic or agree with the group on all issues. Upbeats represent 11 percent of the American public, and 13 percent of registered voters….
________________________

However, I’m sure many who’ve read my posts would more likely say I’m in the last category (missing on the list above):

whacky Utopian extremist nut-case idealist with truly kooky ideas and no grip on reality

: )

TheTraveler-

I too was typed as an Enterpriser and share the same idea towards social programs as I think you do. More emphasis on local and State programs and less federal involvement is always my “we can do it better” solution.

I took one of these tests before and it said I was a moderately conservative libertarian. I liked that one along with the new South Park Republican….

OSITA,

Upbeats: Financially well-off moderates who express positive views of their finances, government performance and business.???

Completely predictably, I’m a liberal.

The first time I did the survey I was put down as a liberal, I guess that was to be expected.

Based on the complaints above by conservatives being placed into the enterpriser group I redid the poll trying to get the resonse of social conservative by answering all the questions conservatively, but answering the financial questions as if I was in horrible shape and got enterpriser group. I’m not sure if there might be a bug in it that labels all conservatives as enterprisers; I do not know why my experiment led to an enterprizer rating.

I am an enterpriser, which is where I would choose to be after reading the descriptions, although I would be more protective of the environment than average. I am glad the test found what I thought myself.

Of course, it is always vaguely distressing to find that one’s own behavior falls within statistically predictable parameters.

Yes, I’m a liberal.
But I’m not sure I’d join any club that would have me!

Paul,
|Upbeats: Financially well-off moderates who
|express positive views of their finances,
|government performance and business.???
|
|___Completely predictably, I’m a liberal.

That is the one thing that is not accurate. I’m not rich or even upper-middle-class. My wife and I are both Software Engineers. We both worked our way through college, with some assistance from our families. We both work hard for a living. We helped put our son through college, but he too, had to work some through college. It wasn’t cheap. We are both 47 years of age. Our total annual household income is less than $140K (typical for our professions). We live in a modest middle class neighbor hood. We both believe quite similarly about many things, and respect each other’s rights to believe differently. We are quite average, except for our beliefs and values, which revealed by the Typology test, represent only about 11% to 13% of Americans. My test results are as follows.
Please feel free to say which you agree or disagree with:

——
AGREE:
1 Government is almost always wasteful and inefficient Government is almost always wasteful and inefficient
——
AGREE:
2 Government regulation of business is necessary to protect the public interest
——
AGREE:
3 Poor people today have it easy because they can get government benefits without doing anything in return
——
AGREE:
4 The government should do more to help needy Americans, even if it means going deeper into debt
——
AGREE:
5 Immigrants today are a burden on our country because they take our jobs, housing and health care
(I have to slightly agree with this, but I am NOT against immigration, just too much and suddenly)
——
STRONGLY AGREE:
6 The best way to ensure peace is through military strength
——
STRONGLY AGREE:
7 It’s acceptable to refuse to fight in a war you believe is morally wrong
——
8 Most people who want to get ahead can make it if they’re willing to work hard
——
STRONGLY AGREE:
9 Everyone has it in their own power to succeed
——
AGREE:
10 Too much power is concentrated in the hands of a few large companies
——
AGREE:
11 Most corporations make a fair and reasonable amount of profit
——
AGREE:
12 Elected officials in Washington lose touch with the people pretty quickly
——
AGREE:
13 Most elected officials don’t care what people like me think
——
AGREE:
14 This country should do whatever it takes to protect the environment
——
AGREE:
15 Stricter environmental laws and regulations are worth the cost
——
AGREE:
16 Homosexuality is a way of life that should be accepted by society
(only because, I think people are born this way)
——
AGREE:
17 Public school libraries should be allowed to carry any books they want
(doesn’t mean they should; especially porn)
——
AGREE:
18 Religion is not that important to me
——
AGREE:
19 I’m generally satisfied with the way things are going for me financially
——
AGREE:
20 Paying the bills is generally not a problem for me
——
STRONGLY AGREE:
21 It IS NOT necessary to believe in God in order to be moral and have good values
——
STRONGLY AGREE:
22 Using overwhelming military force is the best way to defeat terrorism around the world
——
AGREE:
23 The growing number of newcomers from other countries strengthens American society
——
AGREE:
24 It?s best for the future of our country to be active in world affairs
——
AGREE:
25 I worry the government is getting too involved in the issue of morality
——
In politics today, do you consider yourself a Republican, Democrat, or Independent?
NO LEANING INDEPENDENT
——
In general, would you describe your political views as very conservative, conservative, moderate, liberal or very liberal?
CONSERVATIVE
——

Lawnboy,

Fun test, However, It said I was either Rush Limbaugh or Andrew Dice Clay ?

Was there even a catagory for that ? (J/K)

I think a few categories are missing.
Like:
(1) Dictators: my way or the high way
(2) Religious zealots: NO! my religion you infidel!
(3) Don’t cares: Uhh?…yeah, OK, whatever.
(4) Socialists: we really can all live at the expense of everyone else.
(5) Bleeding Hearts: Oh dear. Somebody should do something about that (somebody else, that is).
(6) Conspiracy Theorists: Just because you’re paranoid, doesn’t mean everyone isn’t out to get you. Big Brother is Watching You.
(7) Illegal Aliens: chaw’ DIn chevwI’ tlhoy’ tugh
(that’s Klingon…see if you can find out what it means)

chaw’ DIn chevwI’ tlhoy’ tugh:
Hurry up and let me through the border!

Josh….EXCELLENT
That is correct.

Especially, since those are words that aren’t in the Klingon dictionary!

Sorry, OSITA, I was just laughing at you being put in a category that specifically says you think the Government is doing a good job. Should’ve put one of these fellas in (-:

I have to say, as a liberal I found the test very unsatisfying, because there was never any option just to disagree (-:

OSI,

You must have some strange definition of upper middle class and an even stranger definition of rich, since under $140k a year for a household is definitely what I would call upper middle class. There are some of us that would be happy to be getting 40k.

And by this definition of upper middle class, Software engineer could fall into Upper middle class or lower middle class.

I think $140K is good money.

There is an old saying that many people have too much money, but few have enough.

Congrats OSI, you are now officially rich!

I was said to be an enterpriser which I don’t totally disagree with but some of the questions were hard to answer such as #16 on homosexuality, it’s not about accept/discourage, I personally disagree with it but that does not meen I want them hung or anything! I don’t believe anyones sexuality should be pushed on anyone else, hetero or homo it should be left in the bedroom!!

well, no surprise, I came up as a liberal. However, there were a few discrepencies. First, I attend church every Sunday. Second, I am in debt up to my eyeballs, and I am not rolling in money the way Liberals are described in the analysis. Overall, it was pretty accurate. Now if we could only get rid of the Washington “duh!-bya” that got me so fired up in the first place, maybe I wouldn’t be so liberal!

Hold on a minute.
The stated $140K is for two workers (me and my wife).
My son, who just graduated from college makes $41K per year selling electronic parts.
None of those is NOT rich by a long ways.
And, I did not see on that web-site
where income levels were mentioned.

Yes, Paul, I found it funny that the test
put me in a category that thinks government
is doing OK. Because, I see a LOT of
room for improvement.

Err….double negative….Sorry…I mean:
None of those is rich by a long ways.

The wording of the scale is confusing. For example it pits these two against each other:

1. The government should do more to help needy Americans, even if it means going deeper into debt

vs.

2. The government today can’t afford to do much more to help the needy.

To agree with 1, you have to agree that it’s okay to go further in debt. But, of course, one could do more to help the needy by redirecting current revenues or by raising taxes. But this seems to incorporate the “tax and spend liberal” stereotype that Rush Limbaugh has made so popular. I think we spend way too much on somethings already and that those funds would be better directed toward education and public assistance for the truly needy.

And I dislike being lumped with lawyers,
other top management of
large and medium corporations. In my experience, top level managers are too
often the ones with the most gall and the least management skills.

And, my wife, and son, and I all attended
junior college first (cheaper that way),
and transferred to a state college the 2nd year.

Out of state colleges are much TOO expensive.

So, if you have kids planning to go to college,
ask them to attend a junior college first, and
then transfer to a university after 1 or 2 years.
The savings is incredible. Also, the junior
colleges don’t make History, English, and
Political Science ridiculously difficult,
like the 4-year universities do.

Mental Wimp,
You should change your name,
because you’re correct.
There were several questions that
didn’t provide accurate options, and
what is lacks is simple one more option: DISAGREE

The income wasn’t mentioned there, I was basing that on my own experiences, considering when growing up my dad made around 180k. Of course 180k doesn’t go as far as you would think with 9 kids living at home at once.

And now that I’m on my own, I’m making 30k as a junior software developer and going to start college next semester.

Haven’t found a link that bases it on income, but have found one based on net-worth. And it doesn’t really support my statement. But according to IRS income tax info only 9% of individuals made over 100k in 2003, which is why I consider that upper middle class.

OSI,

I was saying you were upper middle class by lumping you with the engineers in it.

I think labels are highly undependable.

Labels are not dependable. We all hate labels. But you can’t make dinner without them. When my son was little, he ripped the labels off all the cans. We had an interesting menu for the next couple of weeks.

People fall into categories. Sure there are differences, but you can predict a lot of their behavior is you know the category. We do it because it very often works.

The important thing to remember is that statistics cover groups, not individuals.

The important thing to remember is that statistics cover groups, not individuals.

This is forgotten all the time. That is why so many people find statistical studies based on things like race or gender to be offensive.

phx8:
“Yes, I’m a liberal.
But I’m not sure I’d join any club that would have me!”

Swordfish! :^)
Are you by any chance a Groucho Marx aficionado? If so, I must admit that my deep and abiding love for his unique brand of chaos makes me a member of that particular club — whether the man would’ve ever allowed me entrance or not!

Stephen:
“I think labels are highly undependable.”

Me too, actually. So anyway, what did it say? ;^)

SiricC
Hmmmm….based on the link you provided and
networth, I guess we would just barely fall into
the upper-middle-class.

Stephen, jack,
Labels are a bad idea. They’re never accurate.

Anyway, I don’t really see us as upper-middle class…just border-line if at all.
However, our falling into that category is
mainly only because my wife and I
(both age 47) do something most Americans don’t.
We paid off our home loan in 10 years, instead
of 30 years, AND we don’t live beyond our means,
and run up a lot of debt and interest.
We do not do what the federal government does.
So, we saved a lot of money by not borrowing
too much, and by not paying too much interest.
You probably already know this, but a 30 year
loan can double or triple the total cost of a
home (depending on interest rates). Interest
rate is not as important as the length of time.

Once you have a place to live, free and clear,
and no debts, it makes life so less stressful,
and opens up lots of avenues for starting a small
business.

SirisC,
Also, as a software developer (a field you are also pursuing), that particular profession
easily lends itself to tele-commuting.
I’ve been lucky to have the convenience
of working at home for the last 8 of the as 12 years.
So, good luck. I hope you love software design and programming as much as I do.

We all use labels when we think it helps our argument.
Sometimes, it’s easier to use a label than a list all of the beliefs warranting the label.

But, labels are usually a bad idea, since
it’s increasingly difficult to know what
a liberal or conservative is anymore.

And it’s getting increasingly hard to identify a socialist.

And, with inflation, and the falling/rising
dollar, upper/middle/lower-class is
hard to determine too.

And like SiricC said, if you make $180K per year,
but have 9 children, that’s not rich at all
(not monetarily at anyway).

I’d say we need is a much better test,
except that probably won’t help at all,
since there aren’t enough categories to
perfectly fit everyone into the correct
category. So, it boils down to a math problem.
Since no one believes the same way on everything,
a label (category) is merely a generalization at best, generally speaking of course.

It was a fun questionaire, but a bit pointless now in retrospect.

Refusing to take the test and be categorized along with a herd of like-minders, I don’t register on their scale. Predictably, that is where independent thinking voters should fall.

Why do they call them Social Conservatives instead of Religious Conservatives?

David

I don’t know if people who refuse the test would fit in the independent category (because they don’t take the test). Seriously, it depends.

When I take a test that asks race or ethnicity, I always fill in the wrong box just to mess with the statistics and when I recently made a loan application I refused all together. It comes not out of a sense of independence, just annoyance. On the other hand, I never lie about something important such as my preference for Coke over Pepsi.

An increasing number of people are refusing to answer surveys or are lying to researchers. It is a problem.

The thing many of us dislike about surveys is that they are often too close to being correct. It offends our sense of being an individual.

BTW - When you ask Americans, almost everyone says that he is “a bit of a rebel”. Since we can’t all be rebels, all of us who say that must be conformists.

Adrienne,
You know the password!

Aldous,
Ignoring the labels (Social Conservatives
versus Religious Conservatives) for a
moment, I will say this, and I am in no way am
endorsing or criticizing any religion.

But anyone who forces religion (of any kind)
into government, onto captive audiences such
as school children in public schools,
courts, the public, onto anyone,
or limits anyone to worship the religion of their choice,
or discriminates against any other religion (or atheists),
does have a label:

criminal

Anyone who doesn’t yet get this most basic
concept needs to read the 1st Amendment (1791).
It’s amazing to me, that in this day and age,
that seemingly intelligent people, still don’t get it.
This is a very serious problem, that has the
potential, as history has demonstrated,
the possibility of ruining any nation.

The 1st Amendment, and others, and most laws,
and most religions stipulate the following
fundamental laws:

(a) a person has the right to do anything they
wish as long as they do not violate the inalienable rights of another.
(b) force is never justified except for self defense, and
bringing criminals (i.e. those who violate (a) above) to justice.

So, we need to stop tolerating such violations,
because it’s not just wrong, it’s illegal.

jack, there is a difference between being unique and independent. No one is unique. But, many folks are independent thinking. People who answer surveys and then look for the results are looking for their place in a crowd. They are actually seeking information from the survey. As an independent, I choose far more reliable sources for who and what I should think, or what others believe they, or others, should think about things, than surveys.

It has nothing to do with being a rebel. It has everything to do with having taken prob. & stats, and realizing that the survey results are predisposed to produce certain results within certain predefined parameters in which cause and effect have absolutely nothing to do with the correlative results save that those who answer surveys are fascinated by their standing in the results of same.

Now if someone wanted data upon which they could win elections, they would design something far more rigorous than a survey which would give them some predictive value over what a politician/party says/does and how voters respond to same in the polls. Surveys provide nothing remotely close to that kind of empirically rigid science.

jack, besides, I get criticism from both the left and right on this web site. That is all I need to know to determine that I am an independent thinking voter. I have just as much criticism for tax & spend Democrats as I have for spend & borrow Republicans. I don’t need no survey to tell me I belong to one camp or the other.

I know I am socially liberal on most issues, conservative on fiscal and monetary policy, and back and forth and in between on a host of other issues. This is due in large part to my education and large number of matriculated hours in philosophy which motivates me to seek underlying root causes and assumptions in attempting to understand the world I live in. NOT my socio-economic status or geographic region or host of other correlative factors of happenstance and circumstance. There really are folks who lead more deliberately decided lives than others. This does not make them rebels, just more deliberate in what occupies their minds in the way of thought and opinions.

What an odd test. I got lumped in with the liberals. I think it was my answer to the environmental question. I “strongly agreed” that “Stricter environmental laws and regulations are worth the cost.” I was pretty moderate on almost everything else.

BTW, if I was a Republican, I’d be kind of appalled to find I “strongly agreed” that “using overwhelming military force is the best way to defeat terrorism around the world.” Does that mean I support sending the entire 1st Armored Division into that guy’s house in Buffalo, NY?

Anyhow, there was no catagory for guys who are fiscal and foreign policy conservatives and social liberals - a Clinton Democrat, in other words. It’s no wonder the “Liberal” catagory is the largest. It’s a ‘catch all’.

|
| overwhelming military force is the best way to
| defeat terrorism around the world
|
When possible, that seems quite appropriate to me.

Criminals should be arrested, especially murderers and their accomplices.

Unfortunately, only a few dozen or so countries alone can’t be expected to afford the money and lives to do it alone.

We can’t bargain with terrorists.
Diplomacy doesn’t work with terrorists.

What would you recommend countries do with terrorists, other than eliminate them?

OSI, one thing other countries should NOT do to get rid of terrorists is become wanton murderers, terrorists, and torturers themselves in the pursuit of their enemy. Pursuit of terrorists which kills indiscriminately innocent elderly, women, and children and even men trying to support their families, is absolutely NOT, in any way, a justified pursuit.

DAMN RIGHT!!

David, Leah,

I agree with that COMPLETELY.

That’s not what I said, or meant, WHATSOEVER !

ONLY arrest, or eliminate the murderers.
NOT at the expense of innocent bystanders.

That’s not what I said, or meant, WHATSOEVER !

Maybe not OSI, but you were perfectly happy to misrepresent my post. Would you support sending the entire 1st Armored Division into that one terrorist’s house in Buffalo, NY? Or is it possible that one lone terrorist in Buffalo can be defeated by something less than “overwhelming military force”?

AP, I misrepresented your post? Where?
Re-Review the posts above. You’ll see
I never even addressed your by name.

I merely addressed the Typological Question #22:
|
| Using overwhelming military force is the best way to
| defeat terrorism around the world
|

And, I merely wanted to be clear that I do not
support harming innocent civilians, in the
process of trying to root out terrorits and
criminals (I just didn’t want my position to
be mischaracterized to appear that I would
support harm to innocent civilians).

And, No to your question. One lone terrorist does not require the entire 1st Armored Division.

That’s all. I’m not trying to pick a fight.
Especially on whether “One lone terrorist requires the entire 1st Armored Division”.

After taking the survey test I find it makes me a Social Conservative but doesn’t really
say who I am. Like everyone else a part of me fits in all the categories. While not being a
regular church goer, I believe morally some things are wrong. Not totally against big
business since I’ve never gotten a job from a poor person. And feel homosexuality is a
psychological disorder and need not be celebrated. I’m willing to accept responsibility for my own mistakes and not blame others. Of course, these beliefs were formulated based on
experience in a life of 70 years.

Not totally against big business since I’ve never gotten a job from a poor person.

I’ve worked for several entrpreneurs who took a very meager salary so they could put profits back into the business and hire more staff. I did so myself when I started my company.

I don’t know where people get the idea that entrepreneurs are rich. Most of ‘em live off of Top Ramen (5 for a dollar) because they bootstrap their businesses.

Not many think that the entrepreneurs that take meager salaries so that they can put money back in their business to grow it are rich. They usually fail since most small business do just that. They hardly represent big business. I too can relate having started several businesses. Some failed while others didn’t. At one point provided income for over 150 people and subsequently millions of dollars to the vendors and comunity plus a national dealer network that did similar. Technically considered a small business. Especially when compared to big business. An entrepreneur isn’t neccessarily rich but can’t be poor or he couldn’t get in business in the first place. Many hold down other jobs or their wives work etc. Nevertheless they rank as heroes in my book. Anyone that has to worry about meeting a payroll is a hero to me.