March 07, 2005
The Dead Horse That Must Be Beaten
I know. The last person you want to hear more about is Jeff Gannon, aka James Guckert. But there’s a few things you might want to know before we inter that old nag. Let’s start with the fact that Bobby Eberle, ultimate owner of Talon News, was a delegate to the 2000 convention, and thanked G. Gordon Liddy and Karl Rove on his site for their assistance.
How about adding to that the fact that Talon News ran with an erroneous story saying that an intern had recorded interviews with the major networks substantiating charges of infidelity concerning John Kerry?
So what's the big deal? Why do we persist in dealing with this story? Well, it all has to do with the reliability of the information we are presented with.
Bias is a minor consideration, usually. You can always lift the facts out of a story and build your own theory on what's going on. What we are dealing with here is the story at its very point of origination. When the facts are compromised from the very start, even the most reliable news organizations picking these things up can be compromised.
Let's face up to fact here: many politicians are self-serving, and given half a chance, they use the media to smear their opponents and elevate themselves. Most of the time, that has to be done indirectly, and the reporter doesn't necessarily have the politician's agenda front and center.
People can argue this point concerning Dan Rather, but ultimately, Dan Rather, rather than stonewall forever and admit nothing, as GOPUSA and TalonNews are doing, finally ran a report admitting they were wrong about the documents. They would also follow up with an investigation that would wipe out the team involved. Have Bob Novak or Jeff Gannon fallen on their swords on their role in the Valerie Plame outing, a clearly illegal event?
Let's just imagine for a moment that this was me in there, not Gannon, and I didn't write for Watchblog or anything, but some hard left online agitprop site. Let's imagine there's a Democrat in the White House. I'm not getting paid anything to write here, so I'm not supporting myself by my "journalism". I write these pro-presidential articles, and by some quirk of the system, I get to hang around among the paid reporters, getting a provisional day pass every day from the administration. I get this pass before I even have a publication to represent At least one that isn't openly partisan.
Not only that, I get to attend two of their Christmas Parties, trouble being that these things are kind of Exclusive.
I get, by some great coincidence, documents showing that a certain former ambassador's wife was NOC, a secret agent supposed to work under a cover that's not diplomatic, and therefore not subject to diplomatic immunity. I get this leak the same way the much better established Robert Novak would get it.
Is it just some massive trick of fate that my pro-Democrat news organization magically gets such extraordinary access, so quickly after its founding? And even before it?
Some Republicans might start raising some questions about whether I was close to this president. It might be especially interesting if I had been throwing them ideological softballs, designed to give them opportunity to opine, instead of having to face the skeptical questioning of less well-aligned reporters.
That's what we really need: flatterers at the court of the king, whether that Democrat or Republican. Especially flatterers to which we have great access and influence. It doesn't matter that we're presenting non-professional journalists as the real thing, or reprinting party platforms and press releases as informative articles. What matters is that our administration gets the image it wants, regardless of whether it's done the work to deserve it.
Putting aside this fiction for a moment, let's see the bigger picture here: This is the shaping of public opinion, not by the honest persuasion based on informed consent, but based on social instincts and peer pressure that circumvent rational thought. This is the big lies, told over and over again until the very insistence on the truth becomes the evidence.
I think as a country, even as fellow party members to our respective administrations, we have a right to know, a right to be informed of the facts of the decisions that are going to make historical and day to day differences in our lives. When the press is simply made to be a smokescreen for activities and conduct they would rather not have us know or accept, then it starts to corrode at our capacity to exert control over our elected officials.
When we start talking about reining in activist judges, instead of keeping with the judicial prerogative to interpret the law and judge cases by the facts, for example, we forget a crucial check against our legislature and our Executive branch. They, in their zeal to be tough on crime, may forget to be just, fair, accurate, and humane about their laws and their policies. There needs to be a way for such errors to be corrected.
When our parties start telling us that by removing this check, or this balance, or this watchdog here or there, we can free ourselves to do greater and better things, pray to whatever God you worship, or meditate on whatever principle or discipline it takes, and stand firm. Why? Because your protection from your rivals and their protection from you are one and the same. The great compromise of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights is that no faction or group, whether political, religious, or ethnic can win forever, especially if they chose to ignore people's needs and wishes arbitrarily, or fail to get the various jobs given to them done right.
In the end, our system works best when our government's workings are known to us truthfully, and our questions find answers we didn't even know we needed. This isn't about partisan interests, but the best interests of the American people, regardless of who's in charge. The abuses, corruption, and excesses Democrats and Republicans mutually loath depend on two things to continue their hateful existence: our ignorance and our apathy. Planted political propagandists will only aid the politicians and Washington insiders in covering their asses, and thereby putting our nation's collective ass in a sling. Whether we get our news from those with Republican or Democratic bias, we deserve the truth, not the party line.
Posted by Stephen Daugherty at March 7, 2005 08:16 PMWow. I must say nicely done, Stephen. This is indeed a topic deserving of everyone’s attention, regardless of the fact that the current example happens to be on the republican side of the fence. We must know our representatives activities if we are to hold them accountable, and if we are being deceived or prevented from knowing the truth, it spells the downfall of our system. With any system of rules, it is only a matter of time for those in power to develop ways of maintaining and increasing that power.
Posted by: AParker at March 7, 2005 01:04 PMJames Guckert and Bobby Eberle.
Journalists working for NGOs are common these days. They don’t try to be unbiased. They are part of the information continuum, the journalists ecology. We should not consider them journalists and we should discount what they tell us.
I don’t recall ever reading anything by either of these guys. They are small bottom feeding fish in the big journalism lake. The proper response is to “out” them, as you are doing, but we need not fain shock when these kind of guys turn up.
That is why the horse is dead.
Is the story here GW and his press guys planted someone in the corp so that anytime they needed to change the “tone” of the breifing he could call on them and get a softball? How many times did that happen?
If the story is about Talon News Service or Gannon’s reporting then I agree with Jack that it’s a dead horse; Stephen probably has more readers than those two.
But show me that this is more than the opposition trying to score a few points against Bushcorp because that’s what is sounds like.
Why must we beat the dead horse? Because it is undead! It is Hossferatu! It must not only be be beaten, but staked through its heart and decapitated, with the head left in Karl Rove’s bed!
Seriously, this horse isn’t as dead as it seems. We got major issues here, and we still don’t know the entire truth about how the White House managed to create this nice, politically incestuous arrangement. The story is significant because it is symptomatic of an administration tireless in it’s efforts to manipulate, rather than inform and persuade the American people.
I believe that residents of all three columns must be equally tireless in keeping their eyes on their government’s doings. The Republicans must do it because their power depends on the faith the American people and their own party members have in their leaders doings. The Green column must do it because to rise in political stature, they must show that both parties are unworthy of their power in a way that converts members of those parties. And we Democrats must do it for two reasons: as minority party, and therefore a break on the excess of our counterparts, and because we too want to convert the other side, and inspire the less active amongst us.
In any case, as long as there are legitimate questions, issues like the Guckert/Gannon affair should be focused on. Some foreign cultures find our almost vicious capacity for self-examination to be a weakness, but I think that is only the case so long as we forget to balance our self-criticism with competent, confident action. We must examine our errors and our problems in the pursuit of better conduct, not as if we are looking at prophecies of doom.
I maintain that we should concentrate our efforts in finding out what James Guckert and the White House were up to together in the effort to maintain higher standards. If we let shenanigans like the Talon News controversy go unchecked, we invite our government to deceive us. The Executive Branch has picked up a bad habit of trying to buy favorable coverage instead of earning it. Let’s break them of that bad habit.
Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at March 7, 2005 06:53 PMJack:
There are direct links between these scum and Karl Rove’s Spin Machine. It says something about Republican Values that they don’t even see it as wrong. This is just the start of the Rightwing BrownShirt Movement. Hooray for Bush!!!
Posted by: Aldous at March 7, 2005 09:00 PMAldous -
Don’t be ridiculous. I suspect any real brownshirts in American society will come from your end of the spectrum, not mine. But you have my word that if they do, I’ll defend you if I can possibly do so.
The biggest issue for many Republicans is, I think, is going to be disbelief. It seems that all we hear from your end is terrors and criticism and promises to fight to the end. All well and good, but why should we listen? When was the last time you said anything good about us or what we believed in? Not that you have to say good things, but it helps convince people to listen to you.
Posted by: Daniel at March 7, 2005 09:29 PMKarl Rove. He must be the smartest man in the history of the world. Every times the liberals face him, he kicks their asses and they don’t even know how he did it. But now he personally gets involved with a couple of two bit semi journalists who don’t even write for anything anyone has ever read. It seems out of character, but given his (and your) record, I figure you should be shaking in your boots. He has no doubt just figured out another way to sucker punch the liberal cause.
Posted by: Jack at March 7, 2005 10:19 PMDaniel-
Both our sides, unrestrained by systemic checks and balances, are vulnerable to such excesses. That’s why we’ve rigged the system the way it is. It’s called negative feedback. One side gets too far out of line for the other, the other side moves to correct automatically.
Nobody likes it when they are on the receiving end of such a correction, but then, that’s the point. People then get together across party lines and decide what mutual corrections will hurt the least and do everybody the most mutual good. But people have to talk.
Democrats were long willing to do so. It is the Republicans who, in the name of the all-important culture war, have been trying to shut us out, and whose efforts intensified in that most crucial of periods, post-9/11. The Iraq War, with the deception and incompetence associated with it, was the last straw, and Bush’s conduct and commentary during the 2004 campaign only made things worse. So, if we’ve lost our taste for compromise with the Republicans at this moment, they only have themselves to blame.
They could have extended the olive branch post-9/11, brought this country together as a benevolant majority. Instead, they blasted us as weak, then proceeded to undertake actions that would undermine the war on terror.
Let go of the political dogma. It brought your party power, but it did so to the disadvantage of its ability to deal with the realities at home and abroad. If y’all don’t keep an eye on your people, we will, and we won’t be friendly about it.
Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at March 7, 2005 10:55 PMOn the subject of Karl Rove-
He is smart, he is tough, but one additional factor, one which may be at issue in the Jeff Gannon case, is whether or not he uses unethical, illegal, or even dangerous tactics in order to bring about his victories. Remember what I said about how the market rewards sustainability? That includes ruthless, unscrupulous devils like Rove. I think Richard Dawkins expressed it best, when he said that believing in Evolution was important for human morality, because it tells us that being altruistic and good is a choice, a choice that must be made instead of simply forced by some collective phenomena.
People like Rove are the kind of people we must watch out for, those who feed their own ascendancy at other’s expence, and who put party and theory ahead of public and practical things.
Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at March 8, 2005 12:56 AMI don’t think this scandal can be classified as a dead horse - after all, it was barely mentioned by the Rightwing Biased Media.
The planting of fake reporters, a gay prostitute with obviously close connections within the Whitehouse (run by those who paint themselves as super-religious and therefore, extremely gay-hostile), treasonous breaches of security surrounding a CIA operative - can you imagine what a huge splash this scandal would have been had the Right been in possesion of this kind of ammunition against Bill Clinton?
It just goes to show that what the Left really needs to do is buy their own national television station, much like Fox, but instead, dedicated to revealing the Truth that these Neocon’s so desperately try to hide. Perhaps if they did, other stations would feel compelled to cover scandals like this one and stories they are currently ignoring.
I think that if the Left could manage to make Air America Radio happen, they should definitely move on with an attempt to make Air America TV News a reality too.
Posted by: Adrienne at March 8, 2005 12:40 PMI don’t see why people are so down on G/G’s sexual preferences. I myself used to be into sado-necro-beastiality…but then I realized I was just beating a dead horse.
:-)
Posted by: William Cohen at March 8, 2005 04:35 PMDaniel:
If you ever bother to study the history of the Third Reich, you will see that they look, talk and act just like Republicans today. More than one history buff has commented on it from such papaers like the Wall Street Journal. So if anyone is going to herd a minority together for their sexual differences, look in the mirror.
Posted by: Aldous at March 9, 2005 12:15 AMAdrienne-
We don’t need to repeat their mistakes, and create another news organization with a political agenda. The whole point is to get the facts. Selling the point of view is our job.
William Cohen-
Well, it’s not enough to beat the dead horse, you have to get off on it. ;-)
“We don’t need to repeat their mistakes, and create another news organization with a political agenda.”
As I said, the very reason we need one is because the reporters working at major news organisations have stopped trying to get at THE TRUTH. Too many of these organisations have by default now become the mouthpiece for the Right.
I was not suggesting we lie or start spinning everything to the Left, the way Fox spins everything to the Right. Instead, I think it would be extremely refreshing to see a television station that goes back to asking the tough questions, and who is not afraid to report ALL that can be disclosed about an administration that is “Worse Than Watergate” with so much shady dealing and secrecy. The fact that we now know that they have been using our tax dollars to pay for rightwing propaganda to be broadcast over our airwaves makes it clear to me that a station owned by the Left is entirely necessary - if only to report on THAT STORY since no one else in the television news business has felt the need to do so.
“The whole point is to get the facts.”
Yeah, and these days “The News” isn’t just lazy about investigating, they are willfully ignoring anything that could reflect poorly on this president.
Don’t you think it’s a real heads up for us all when unpaid blogger’s are doing a better job at investigating and getting at the truth than paid reporters working at major news organisations?
Doesn’t it say something when veteran reporter Helen Thomas is pushed to the back of the Whitehouse press room, when prior to this administration, she was always front and center asking president’s, both Democrat and Republican, the most confrontational questions possible?
Is it not puzzling when a story like Gannon/Guckert unfolds and then Wolf Blitzer lobs softball questions to the fake reporter hired to be a softball questioneer?
How about the fact that we don’t get to see or hear much of what is going on in Iraq?
Or the fact that there are no interviews with soldiers who are returning from war mutilated and dismembered?
Our allies in the UK are getting plenty of both - I know, because I’ve got family there who are telling me about it. It is highly disturbing (not to mention embarrassing) when they wonder aloud how American’s can stand being kept in the dark and fed so much horseshit propaganda.
Somebody has got to start covering the stories and asking the tough questions that the rest of the news organisations dare not cover - and it might as well be the Left who takes on the task of doing so, since the Right likes nothing better than softball questions and thoroughly sanitized news.
Speaking of stories that for some reason aren’t being covered, I’d like to ask those who write in the Left column of this blog why you have yet to post an article about the president’s outrageously bad choice of John Bolton as the United States UN ambassador?
Here’s a good editorial on the story from the Boston Globe: No friend of the UN
Adrienne-
I think it bears mentioning that the Book Worse Than Watergate was written by the Republican John Dean, who worked for and went to jail for what he did for Richard Nixon. What we need are three things: A fact-oriented, disciplined left, a nonpartisan standard of professionalism for mainstream journalism, and a Right-Wing that is willing to police and punish its own, even to the point of taking a near-term political hit.
In our case we got to be disciplined, and we got to reach for facts and interpretations that force either admission of the facts, or weaselly spin that eviscerates our opponent’s standard.
I think you’re overreacting, though I don’t blame you given the shear weight of the Bullshit landing on us on a daily basis. You’re over-reacting because you’re finding these things out anyways. The Key things we must do is find out these things anyways, but also break through the ideological armor that the Right has built up. Emotional attacks harden that armor. Relentlessly logical, fact based attacks penetrate deeper, are harder to deflect without damage. It won’t work perfectly. Human beings can rationalize many things if they feel like it. But rationalizing things against the facts creates more friction than rationalizing with them.
A good thing to look for are mutually exclusive facts. Example: Bush’s budget, and his promises. He says he’s fiscally conservative, but he has created a half-trillion dollar deficits. He is facing staggeringly huge fiscal problems, yet he won’t let go of The Only Wartime Tax Cuts Ever Made By An American President Bush has screwed up pretty badly on any number of things. We just need to make those screw-ups so real to people that people are forced to disagree simply for the sake of disagreement- a queasy experience if there ever was one. The issue with taking this approach is our potential vulnerability. Well, vulnerability is the point. Tyrants and dictators are the only rulers who can claim invulnerability in the face of the public. We don’t need tyrants from any side of the ideological spectrum.
Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at March 9, 2005 10:16 PMStephen:
“What we need are three things: A fact-oriented, disciplined left,”
That is exactly what I was suggesting - getting the facts and reporting on them ALL - since we can no longer count on mainstream news to get the job done. For example, doesn’t it bother you when stories like this one aren’t being talked about on the TV news?
How are people ever to fully comprehend the level of secrecy and dirty dealing that is going on with this president and his appointees if no one ever mentions these kind of issues on television? Sadly, that is how the majority of people get their news, and what is needed is a station who wouldn’t hesitate to speak of such things honestly and thoroughly.
“a nonpartisan standard of professionalism for mainstream journalism,”
Come on Stephen, you know as well as I do that we can no longer count on this. I could sit here and give you a long list of stories that barely, if ever, made an appearance on television - (The Gannon/Guckert story certainly isn’t the first that hardly registered in the media), but I’m fairly certain that you’re as aware of them as I am. Sometimes you even write articles which are much more pertinent than the pathetically weak vacuum which is our current mainstream media.
“and a Right-Wing that is willing to police and punish its own, even to the point of taking a near-term political hit.”
And you know we shouldn’t hold our breath on this either. Hell, those kind of Republican’s are now dubbed RINO’s and seem almost as hated within their own party as anyone standing on the Left.
“In our case we got to be disciplined, and we got to reach for facts and interpretations that force either admission of the facts, or weaselly spin that eviscerates our opponent’s standard.”
I think that plenty of people on the left are highly disiplined and that plenty of facts are being grasped - but unfortunately we find ourselves shouting into a void - because the corporate controlled media machine just isn’t interested in our facts or opinions. If they were, so many of these stories wouldn’t be falling through the cracks, right?
“You’re over-reacting because you’re finding these things out anyways.”
I’m merely reacting to the fact that the average people I meet far too often don’t know what the hell I’m talking about when I mention what is going on in this country and in the world. I spend perhaps 30-40 minutes a day reading about world events and national news (on the internet and in newspapers) and though I’m a pretty fast reader, that doesn’t exactly make me some kind of a news expert. The tragic truth is, people who only watch TV news simply don’t know what is going on.
I think its high time someone on the Left (Hello, Mr. Soros!) did something about that fact - because it is hurting our cause(s) for people to remain so bloody ignorant. And like I said before, it just might force the mainstream media to resume actual news gathering - since a left owned station would be bound to appear as though they’re getting all the scoops - simply because all the others have been, and are, refusing to do their job.
“The Key things we must do is find out these things anyways, but also break through the ideological armor that the Right has built up.”
I feel the Key Thing is just to actually get a little of the truth heard by the average sort of person who doesn’t ever want to read anything, but just wants to watch a bit of TV news. All we have to do is find a way to pack a lot of good solid factual information into a half-hour or an hour of news - and make it totally interesting. That shouldn’t be too hard, since a lot of the things they’re currently excising from the news are often shocking, scandalous, bizarre or completely outrageous.
“Emotional attacks harden that armor.”
I don’t think TV news should be emotional at all - let’s leave all the anger and thinly-veiled rage to the moronic joke which is Fox News, shall we?
“Relentlessly logical, fact based attacks penetrate deeper, are harder to deflect without damage. It won’t work perfectly. Human beings can rationalize many things if they feel like it. But rationalizing things against the facts creates more friction than rationalizing with them.”
I agree completely.
“We don’t need tyrants from any side of the ideological spectrum.”
No indeed. But I still think that one side of the ideological spectrum is getting plenty of coverage, while the other side is being increasingly silenced and ignored - and that needs to change very soon, or else the Left will be doomed to a future of failure. Failure to reach the people, failure to win elections - or failure even to report on elections that should no longer be viewed as fair or accurate.
Posted by: Adrienne at March 10, 2005 03:04 AMI have never read a more well-reasoned and accurate response. You go grrl! If I could get honest news, instead of the usual 6:00pm Evening Lies, I might go through fewer television sets per year. “Journalistic objectivity” is one thing: letting one side lie through their teeth as they destroy every vestige of what made America a hopeful dream for the future is another… I have faith that as long as there are people like Adrienne standing up against them, these ruiners, these despoilers of the true American Dream will not prevail.
Thank You, BettyBurke - from the very bottom of my heart.
Your response is a much needed tonic for my flagging morale.
I can’t begin to tell you how fed up I am with being treated like some left-wing radical idiot on this blog - which I can assure you I am far from, even though (gasp! horrors!) I live not far from Berkeley, CA!!!
Since I’m almost ready to blow this pop-stand for good and leave the others to their endless pontificating and/or mind-numbing ignorance, I might as well honestly admit that the Left has really been falling down on the job of covering many of the current events that need (no, that’s not a strong enough term), that DEMAND to be discussed by those who are ACTUALLY on the Left of the political spectrum.
Shame on you for being lazy - or is it just that you’re just too damn acquiescent these days? Far too “moderate” for your own survival? Just too tired perhaps?
(Sigh) How do you feel about that Bankruptcy Bill, eh? Are you still in love with those who voted for cloture? Inquiring minds want to know…
Another Question: Why isn’t the Green Party represented in the Middle Column of this blog? Not even a link, for Pete’s Sake. Are the Green’s as rare as some exotic hot house flower?
No. Perhaps the sad truth is, not too many people bother to read this blog at all, which might explain the lack of representation by all the political parties?
I wonder…
David Remer (as usual), phx8, Aldous and often William Cohen - you’re all I look forward to reading on WB these days - but I’m afraid those days are numbered, if Progressive Thought and Opinion is going to continue to be on permanent holiday here.
Posted by: Adrienne at March 11, 2005 03:58 AMThe temptation when setting up a news organization solely to counter other partisans is to leave out uncomfortable truths. I advocated for a professional apolitical press because I believe the American people, regardless of their political affiliation, make their best decisions while fully informed, rather than just told what we Democrats, them Republicans or your Greens find it favorable for them to know. I also want to make hash of them being able to say its our partisan inclinations. It’s bad enough that they can say it when its not true, it only gets worse when its actually the case.
What I wouldn’t object to is the creation of left leaning, issue-oriented thinktanks and organizations to put forward Democratic and Leftward points of view. I know the Republicans and Independents might see their creation as a sign of civilizations downward slide, and criticize them so, but that would only add to the fun. The Republicans don’t dominate news because of FOXnews, they dominate it because they’ve laid down a foundation of pundits, thinktanks, and networks of talking points distribution. We need to at least mirror their effort in organizing to promote their agendas. My condition on that is that I would prefer we operate with a bit more concern for actual realities, as a opposed to political realities, in how we shape our messages. We should have our roots broad and deep within the facts.
Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at March 11, 2005 12:29 PMI know the Republicans and Independents might see their creation as a sign of civilizations downward slide, and criticize them so, but that would only add to the fun.
What you fail to acknowledge is that civilization’s downward slide is wrought by the re-gressives on the Right!
All social progress since the dawn of thought has been engineered by the progressives of their day - the Liberals who rose up in their mammoth-furs and demanded a better shake for the Little Caveman, who didn’t have the club to be a chief.
Now the gorillas are back in charge, and they are purging every good idea which the Lawgiver has come up with; they are harrying the chimpanzees to cease their un-godly and blasphemous scientific research and teaching, and they are cowing the orangutans from speaking their leftist views on Social Conscience, and the like…
But progress is a funny thing, you know. Social Evolution will out to weed these regressives from the societal gene-pool, or else the Talking Ape is doomed to an extinction of its own devising.
“Global Warming?” - `doesn’t exist!
“Evolution?” - the “jury’s still out…”
“T-Cell Research?” - Blasphemy!
All there is is Ignorance, War, Executions, “Free”-Trade, Usurpation, Usury, Profiteering, Rapine, and Lies. Most of all, Lies - because they allow all the other Good Things the Right has brought us to flourish.
Time for a new Town Crier: “The Regressives are coming!” “The Regressives are coming!” And let every patriotic American then take up the Truth, and march on to trample out this wretched vintage. “I have read a fiery gospel, writ in burnished rows of steel: ‘As ye deal with my contemners, so with you my grace shall deal’…”
May the day come soon, and last long.
Betty-
I don’t take a Planet of the Apes view on the subject. I’ve had enough experience of real conservatives to know they’re not damn dirty apes. I share many of your objections, especially on the science front, but I think its a mistake to approach the undecideds and moderates we need to ally with us with no explanations for why they should see things our way, and an excess of insults.
We got to be the adults around this town.
Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at March 11, 2005 10:14 PMI think its a mistake to approach the undecideds and moderates we need to ally with us with no explanations for why they should see things our way, and an excess of insults.We got to be the adults around this town.
Oh really? Well in my town, being an adult begins with
remembering the lessons of history.
When [they] came for the Communists,
I was silent; after all, I was not a
Communist… When they locked up the
Social Democrats, I said nothing; after
all, I was not a Social Democrat…
When they arrested the trade unionists,
I did not protest; after all, I was not
a trade unionist… When they came for
the Jews, I did not protest; after all,
I was not a Jew… Then they came for
me, and there was no longer anyone left
to speak out on my behalf!
- Martin Niemöller
Oh, it can’t happen here!?
Where have I heard that before…?
Since you seem like a nice young man, I’ll give you a Clue,
for free: it’s already happening here!
As for the Right-Wingnuts: don’t tread on me.
Betty
Look, there are Republicans just like you, convinced that this is war, and that they not only can say anything and everything to oppose the Democrats, they feel they must, for the good of civilzation.
I look at it, and I see a society facing dangers and difficulties, but not one on its way down. If there’s one thing about the end of the world that always comes true, it’s that it doesn’t.
I’d just as soon save my vocal cords, and fight my adversaries where it really counts, with the means that provide them with the least room for backlash, and the most for plain maneuver
Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at March 13, 2005 02:24 AMIf there’s one thing about the end of the world that always comes true, it’s that it doesn’t.
~500AD - ~1100AD
~1933AD - 1945AD
1917AD - 1991AD
Sometimes, the End Of The World happens. Sometimes, it’s for a minority (millions, say); other times, it happens for most of the people in the world. Sometimes, nations, civilizations, and entire societies are wiped out, or indelibly changed for the worse.
Don’t lecture me on world history, young man. Nor tell me, in your smug complacency, that it can’t happen here - and for the worst. I reiterate: it’s already happening here.
If you really don’t remember the lessons of history, you will “drop back a grade” - you will be condemned to repeat them, until you have learned, to your great sorrow, that we are “at war.” With an implacable enemy bent on destroying every vestige of true liberty, civil rights, human rights. A mercantile and rapacious enemy that genuinely feels no compassion for the weak or downtrodden. An enemy who seeks to Win at any cost, with no thought to “playing fair,” or by the rules. An enemy for whom Catsup is a ‘Vegetable’ fit to meet requirements for School Lunches. An enemy who claims to have lowered the Poverty Level in this country by the simple expedient of redefining the Official Poverty Line at a higher number. An enemy who seeks to liquidate the entire Department of Education and, failing that, merely cuts its funding and waters it down so that it cannot properly serve its function. An enemy who sells cocaine to street gangs in order to finance illegal arms-sales to true national enemies, in order to win an election. An enemy who attempts to abrogate the Electoral Process of this nation not once - (Watergate), but three times (2000)/(2004) - with racial intimidation, voter-list tampering, and manipulation of voting machines.
I feel sorry for you, and those who, like you, are not aware that we are at War. You didn’t get the quote I posted above from Martin Niemöller, did you? You will blindly continue to seek your “discourse,” blithely unaware that as you make your fine points, the freedoms you cherish and the very earth which nurtures you are being destroyed by this soulless, powermad, implacable, evil enemy. What a shame. Literally.
Betty-
It’s always easier to tell yourself that somebody just didn’t get what you said, instead of considering that perhaps the person on the other side listened, understood, and simply disagreed.
You see a much graver crisis than I do.
It’s not that I don’t see problems. If my prolific output on this site is any indication, I see plenty of problems. What I don’t see is the apocalypse on schedule. I don’t believe half this country is stupid or evil. I don’t believe calling them such will regain any ground for us. The challenge is not just to point out their errors, but also to persuade them that they are in error in the first place, even if we only succeed in doing so in the back of their minds.
War is a convenient metaphor for people who don’t want to be too discriminating their means of attack. It is the metaphor of the desperate and the arrogant, the insecure and the self-righteous. To think of politics only in take-no-prisoners terms is to neglect moral obligations, humility, and accountability, a mistake I believe the GOP and conservatives have made, and a state of error I do not wish our party to join them in.
We need to be able to see that not all of our potential allies in defeating the agenda of the far right are on our side of the aisle, and that taking an knowingly offensive path in confronting the Right as a whole could be counterproductive in the long run.
Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at March 14, 2005 04:23 PM“The challenge is not just to point out their errors, but also to persuade them that they are in error in the first place, even if we only succeed in doing so in the back of their minds.”
I believe this is a very wise statement, but if you read between the lines you can see that we are starting this fight at the bottom of a very large hill.
There are people who are so arrogant as to believe that errors aren’t POSSIBLE on the part of the current administration. For their part Bush and crew do all they can to foster this belief. Reference April 13 2004 press conference. Talk about beating a dead horse they have people on their side such as Ann Coulter and Sean Hannity who will forever blame Clinton for any problems we are experiencing today. The Republican attack dogs have become masters of defense as well, deflecting attention from things that are truly worthy of notice and debate and channeling it to hot button issues such as Homosexuality, Terrorism, Abortion, etc. Sensationalistic and melodramatic news dominates the media arena, and continues to draw the ratings. They have figured out what sells and saturate the public with it while unnoticed, the important issues that require more than a 15 second attention span are squeezed out.
This is only half the problem though; there also exists a portion of the population that practice willful ignorance on a daily basis. Choosing to ignore serious social, political, and financial problems in favor of flag waving and blind acceptance of the current policy. This portion of the population has deemed dissent unpatriotic, and views those who would challenge the status quo with distain. How do we wake these people up and say “HEY! You cannot claim to love freedom at the same time as rejecting the very tenants of freedom!”
This is my first post on a Blog so I apologize if I ranted but this is the problem as I see it. How can we make a complacent public realize that a competent and careful electorate is the only way to prevent the blatant and continuing abuses we have seen this administration carry out.
Vex: regarding a “competent and careful electorate” - the fascists have ensured that we do not have one, through the intentional dumbing down of America by their party for neary 25 years. Reagan wanted to remove the Department of Education entirely, remember? And was only prevented from doing so because of the public outcry against it. And subsequent Republican administrations have consistently watered down public funding for education, whilst simultaneously pushing for School Vouchers and the like so that they can “educate” a base of Fundamentalist fanatics who will vote their way. An Educated Voter is a Liberal Voter; one cannot be educated and of good will and vote Republican. Period. Thank you for your post; perhaps we’ll meet on the front lines of the next revolution to take back Liberty and Justice in this land.
Stephen - I thank God that you were not alive in 1775; we’d still be paying taxes to the English crown if you had had any influence on the people of the colonies. And if you had been alive in 1859, your demand for “reasoned discourse” with de-facto oppressors and exploiters would have us still opening a Slave State for every Non-Slave State. Sometimes, my friend, words alone cannot purchase Liberty, and Freedom has never been Free. Those fruits fall from the tree of Liberty, which is watered with the blood of Patriots and Tyrants, being its natural manure. (In the unlikely event you don’t recognise those words, they were written by Thomas Jefferson, who thought it very likely we would need a bloody revolution in this land every 5-10 years, just to keep the government honest.) It’s been nearly 60 years now, since the U.S. goverment began to go horribly, horribly Wrong - and it is long past time to water that tree again. There have been *TWO* de-facto coups in this country since 1999 (and Richard Nixon attempted another one in 1972): what more do you need to spur you to action? As you sit there, trying to have “reasoned discourse” with these Nazis, they are laughing at you while removing your freedoms, picking your pocket, and destroying everything you hold dear about the American Ideal. Wake Up! And smell your Rights and Liberties burning!
Posted by: BettyBurke at March 15, 2005 05:26 PMVex-
I know it won’t be easy, but the key here is to be smart workers as well as hard workers. Let me let you in on a little secrety: people like Ann Coulter and Sean Hannity try too hard. We got to go the Andrew Shepard route on them. We got to deal with these things not as a matter of copying their immature style of debate, but of showing that we as Democrats and Liberals are more pragmatic, and can take care of business better. Let the Republican neglect of Public policy be rightly used against them.
Let love of this country be defined by more than just pretty words: good works must accompany good rhetoric. We will convert the moderate center one exposed lie, bribe and screw up at a time. It may seem like we’re in a verse out of the Sinatra song High Hopes, but if we chip enough support away at the right place, we can bring the current Republican triple threat to its knees.
Betty-
Now you’re making it personal. I’ve heard all of your kinds of words before from Republicans. It’s just self-serving rhetoric. It also encourages people to just sit around making a bunch of noise about how bad things are, and not going out and doing something productive to change them.
Think what you like about your style of opposition. I will simply do things my way. Let us see who people find it easier to listen to.
Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at March 16, 2005 12:59 AMNothing Personal intended, amongst us Irish. (You do know how Political Discussions can get, amongst us Irish…? So long as there’s no blood on the floor, things have not become “personal” yet…)
I am merely sick and tired of Appeasement. And that is exactly what engaging these fascists in “reasoned discourse” amounts to. It’s what they want. They want nothing more now that they have a dumbed-down electorate than for the Left to be as weak and cowardly as they paint us to be. Then they can all be John Wayne by comparison. And we’ve seen all too clearly that the majority of Americans would rather see John Wayne kicking the teeth out of a gay kid on their front lawn than have to suffer through a policy speech by Al Gore or John Kerry.
Well, I’ve had it. From now on I am going to support armed insurrection and rebellion; it’s I’ll be sewing the stars on the battle flags of the next revolution, just as Betsy Ross did in her time. Anyone fleeing Ashcroft’s and Feith’s “Gestapo Office” (thank you, Colin Powell!) may find succour at Betty’s House.
Do I think that I’ll see Americans take back their Liberty in my lifetime? No: I am too old, and the current lot of drooling consumers are likely too ignorant, too lazy, and too distracted by TV and Cheez Whiz® to find the gumption to do what they ought to do. But if by some miracle they should wake up, and do what they ought to reclaim their rights, I will be ready to support them.
You should remember, young Daugherty, these words:
“…whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it … when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government…”
They are not words of Reasonable Discourse uttered by (as you call for) Pundits, Thinktanks, and Talking Points. They are words of War, uttered by those willing to lay their lives upon the line to achieve Civil and Human Rights, and to place the wellbeing of the working many above the wealth of the powerful few. “Reasoned Discourse” my Irish erse! “Daugherty” your name is: how many “Daughertys” do you think died between April 24, 1916, and April 18, 1949, fighting for Freedom and Liberty in Ireland? (If I wanted this to be “personal,” young man, I could lay shame at your doorstep for being so insouciant in the face of these monsters who are ruining America!)
The time for Talking is over. Now if we must fight war with Words then so be it: let there be pamphlets and handbooks, manifestos and tracts. Let the government come to fear the Words of the outraged people, let them read Words bared naked as steel; let them feel the contempt and loathing of the disenfranchised - as the English must have felt, reading the Words of Thomas Paine. And if words are not enough to sweep these fascists aside, let them feel the steel itself: there can be no Discourse with Tyranny.
Well, Betty, my ancestors on my father’s side have been here since colonial times. But anyways, I am of the opinion that one can be passionately rational, feeding the force of one’s belief and outrage through compelling communication that inspires others to take the action. To be insightful, rather than stale, proactive rather than reactive, relentless in one’s progress rather than the degeneration of one’s manners and tactics can be a strength in communication. It may be subtle, and not instantly gratifify, but the tide can be turned by means like mine.
My concerned with folks who take your approach is that it is an approach that works best when one already has power. When one doesn’t it has no more use than a infantry charge of a machine gun position in World War One.
While I don’t like to reference war in terms of these efforts, I think martial concerns can provide useful metaphors and tactical wisdom. I would rather use a few well aimed smart bombs of logic and sensible discourse, than carpet bomb my opponents with a bunch of insults, accusations and revilements. It saves time, energy, and offense. Additionally, I believe that I need to approach my efforts at persuasion with a kind of semantic symmetry at work, getting the idea that my readers glean from my work as close to the idea that I meant to express as possible. I do not want to blunt a point they might find reasonable by using language that puts them immediately on the defensive.
Those are the ideals, at least. The truth is, I think increased rancor and venom are the last thing we need. So much that we need to deal with nowadays has consequences that go beyond party lines. Rather than tear into people and bleed them of any sympathy for our views, I think we should find the common cause, support that, and negotiate on the rest. We got real problems that need real solutions, and those won’t come from the dehumanizing of others.
Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at March 16, 2005 03:37 PMSteve / Betty,
I see the path as between the two of you. Steve your very patient and your words have wisdom. However, there comes a time when words fall on deaf ears and where more direct action is called for.
Betty, there is nothing wrong with a lil rightous anger, and when you see the current state of things I can appreciate why you feel the way you do. However, we live in a society and forcing change down others throats through violent means would have a large chance of inciting more resentment than change.
I dont know what exactly should be done but there must be someone smarter than me out there who does.
Posted by: Vex at March 16, 2005 04:29 PMMy [concern] with folks who take your approach is that it is an approach that works best when one already has power. When one doesn’t it has no more use than a infantry charge of a machine gun position in World War One.
The colonists of this country who rose up to challenge their English masters did not have power. The people of English-dominated Ireland did not have power, and fought for 32 years to achieve freedom. The people of France had no power, when they began their Revolution; they scarcely had the food they needed to be able to take to the streets.
Perhaps you misunderstand me: I am calling for Revolution. If we must preface it with years of rhetoric then let our rhetoric be as that of Thomas Paine and Eamon de Valera: let the Right sense the outrage of the People. Let the Novaks and the Delays hear words that will shake their smug complacency and instill fear into their black hearts. And let our words be a preamble to our action; let us hope for a Righteous Peace, but prepare for a Righteous War. Freedom isn’t Free: it has ever and always been paid for in blood - of patriots and tyrants. I for one am prepared to give my life in the struggle to take back American Ideals: Liberty, Freedom, Human and Civil Rights. Are you?
Vex - Welcome! I really enjoyed reading your post.
Betty:
“I for one am prepared to give my life in the struggle to take back American Ideals: Liberty, Freedom, Human and Civil Rights. Are you?”
I fully understand your anger Betty, I really do. However, I’m of the opinion that before anyone starts whipping out their guns, they might first try donating a few dollars toward getting a left-ward leaning television station that could thoroughly and honestly inform people about what is going on in the country. The way I’ve always seen it, violence is the very last thing to resort to, never the first.
Stephen:
“I would rather use a few well aimed smart bombs of logic and sensible discourse, than carpet bomb my opponents with a bunch of insults, accusations and revilements. It saves time, energy, and offense.”
With all due respect Stephen, Fox News is doing the latter - and they are currently doing quite well at sucking in the kind of dimwits who never read the paper and who then flock to the polls to vote against their own best interests. It is those folks the Left isn’t reaching - because there is NO VENUE at all for “well aimed smart bombs of logic and sensible discourse” or, for those sort of folks, the kind of well aimed stupid bombs designed for the illogical and insensate that they need to hear as they’re channel surfing.
Btw, I don’t think being smart, correct, and carefully dignified ever really won an election. For instance, I believe Clinton’s saxophone playing got him many more votes than did his brilliant intellect.
Betty-
You misunderstand me. I want change, I want a reversal of the politics as it is. What you might call a revolution. But I want something more lasting, and less dependent on a transitory sense of outrage. What you want is a revolution, what I want is an evolution. I don’t want the Democrats merely to win, I want the center of the nation’s political gravity to shift to our side. I don’t want the American public to come over to our side by reaction, but by reflection. I want to change a generation’s heart about Liberalism, not merely have them give us one election. We have to create a serious, eloquent answer to why the GOP no longer deserves to hold the power it does now, a serious reason why their first instinct should be to vote on our side.
Today is the beginning of my fifteenth month as a Watchblog contributing editor. I have published 92 articles in all, more than any other author on the Blue Column. If you think I’m uncommitted, well, I guess that’s your opinion. For me, though, the goal is to give people good reason to feel that liberality is the course for this country. You can fight and kick and scream at the masses, calling people stupid, evil, or whatever, or you can provide the proof of the corruption, incompetence and evil, free of the partisan rhetoric that can be used as an excuse not to listen. This is about making the “liberal bias” excuse as slippery a slope towards irrelevancy for those who use it.
There are two reasons for my approach: I want that armor against dismissal provide by a fact-based approach. I also don’t want my politics to get in the way of my perceptions. I want to be advocating not merely the truth as I see it, but also the truth as it is, period.
Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at March 16, 2005 08:36 PMSD
While you are VERY partisan, I think you handled good ol betty well. The ways you mention are smart and thankfully, most on the left and right agree with your style.
I do agree with betty though, a revolution may not be so bad, but I am sure that surprised no one on here.
But the idea of a “liberal revolution” is so laughable that I nearly spit water all over my desk. LOL!!!
If its a revolution you desire so bad betty, then lose your ridiculous liberal leanings and quit thinking that the average American believes the crap you do.
Embrace US so that it will be a revolution of US against the govt and not you against US.
You may have a chance then.
