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And if it were Kerry’s celebration it would be defended by saying that he wasn’t the one who took us to war … it’s his first term …

and you can bet any protesters would NOT be at the head of the line, shaking his hand, and telling Kerry nicely that they are ready to work with him.

There would be just as much security and it would be just as expensive no matter who is President.

Yes the money could have been spent for better things.

I am trying to figure out what it says when an American President has to fear American citizens. Is it the citizens, or the President, or both?

There are certainly millions of Americans who fear the President. What does that say, if anything?

Thankfully for the nation’s integrity, assasination attempts of President’s in recent history have been bi-partisan. But what of that period from Lincoln and Garfield to JFK, in which President’s walked, jogged, campaigned and generally exposed themselves to the public without much concern and without major incident? Were the people different, or, the Presidents?

Certainly much has changed in America since those times. Many conservatives say for the better, many liberals say for the worse. Many social scientists would say neither, simply that history and demographics and social mindset have changed.

There are so many perspectives, experiences, hopes and fears tugging at each other, and no one to unify them all. Reminds me a bit of Tolkein’s Middle Earth. But there is absolutely no concensus as to who are the elves and who are orks.

Yes.
What does it say about OUR society when OUR President cannot walk down the street in celebration?
Even Saddam went out in public among the masses. The new Palestinian leader went out to greet his supporters as did the new Chek President. I thought they were nuts. It turned out just fine.

There is the ‘threat’ of a dirty bomb in Mass. right now. Who is it that has gone underground to be safe? The leaders of Mass. What makes them so important that they have protective bunkers and the masses are left to fend for themselves? It’s not like THEY can’t be replaced.

The insane amount of money spent to protect all the leaders in our country could be spent on other things, such as education. Same goes for the money spent for all the new Governors and other Politicians to have their own big celebrations, not to mention the campaign money.

It doesn’t make me feel better to see our leaders hide themselves and tell the rest of us that they have taken all necessary measures to protect the rest of us.

Dawn, the $40 million is from corporations, lobbyists, and special interest groups that are looking for favors and legislation from Bush and the GOP.

One interesting thing to come out of this election is how Democrats were able to raise most of their campaign funds from private citizens, where the GOP still gets most of theirs from corporations, lobbyists, and special interest groups.

David, that’s an interesting thought. I’m in the middle of Jeremy Rifkin’s “The European Dream”, and he talks about how most Americans still think of themselves as God’s chosen people - but in a dawning era of pluralism and globalism, we’re no longer sure what it is we’re chosen for.

I suspect much of Bush’s appeal is that he’s providing Americans with a national mission: to bring the God-given gift of democracy to our little brown brothers.

These are sad times indeed. One thing is certain, this president is not OUR president, he has good reason to be afraid.

Taylor said:
“These are sad times indeed. One thing is certain, this president is not OUR president, he has good reason to be afraid.”

Now that’s what is scary.
He IS OUR President. There was an election and he won. Kerry would be OUR President if he had won.
Just because he isn’t the President you may have chosen it doesn’t change the fact that Bush is OUR President. Like it or not.

I suppose being able to make comments such as Taylor’s are what is ‘good’ about our FREE society.

The door is open …

He is our president, Dawn. In that you are correct. But he has not just stepped on a lot of toes, he’s stomped them and kicked those folks in the shins for good measure.

You think we should just get use to it. Well, trouble is, we’re just as American as you are, and we Americans don’t like being told to sit down, shut up, and take it by anybody. Not the least from our leaders.

We also don’t like seeing policies we think make sense being trashed while you seem to think you’re too good to explain yourselves to us. This is a democracy, some discussion would be nice. The Republicans are arrogant in their power- they only have themselves to blame if Democrats don’t seem to enjoy their tenures in office. When you guys start to recognize that the rest of us want some say, and you do something about it, we’ll start to believe the president speaks for us.

No this president is not our president. He is the oil corporation’s president. He is the Klan’s (who now masquerade as Southern Baptists, they go out on Saturday night and burn crosses, and then go to church on Sunday morning), He is the cowards and bullies of this country, who want war but won’t participate in the actual dirty work, or “heavy lifting”. Basically service dodgers, people who believe something should be done, but wouldn’t inconvenience themselves to do anything. This president has never served this country, except for his own gain. He used his father’s name to get in and make his fortune off the backs of the Texans tax money. What has he ever personally done for this country, without being financially rewarded?

He is above all else the rich and priviledged american’s president.

The most insidious thing about the Bush administration is how it uses loyalty oaths, astroturfing (artificial grassroots organizations created by thinktanks and parties), and other deceptive methods to give the impression of popular will.

Leadership is not shaping people’s opinions through deception and spectacle. It is doing what needs to be done. And I don’t mean boldly putting our country’s ass in a sling over ideology, I mean being aware of whats going on in the world, what your options are, and if you don’t have a good choice available, figuring one out. Leadership is not turning this country into a haven for ideological lemmings, but rather the inspiration of original, useful thought and action.

AP, when Clinton spent 30 million for his inauguration in 1992, did you get outraged then and scream that he was being bought off by his contributors then?

Just checking, it’s always nice to know that people are being consistent with their criticisms and not just firing off any feable attack that they can think of at the leader of the party that they hate…

Rhinehold
Uh, your on the blue side my friend: clinton was/is a saint and EVERYTHING must be blamed on Bush.

AP,
Good times indeed!

Stephen (both posts), and Alice - Well said!

Rhinehold:
“when Clinton spent 30 million for his inauguration in 1992, did you get outraged then and scream that he was being bought off by his contributors then?”

We weren’t at war then. Or so heavily in debt.
During World War II, FDR held a single lunch to celebrate his inauguration - obviously he grasped the concept of true priorities.

“it’s always nice to know that people are being consistent with their criticisms and not just firing off any feable attack that they can think of at the leader of the party that they hate…”

Its not the entire Party, its the Neo-Con Wing which is so well represented by Dubya and Co. that I hate.

…did you get outraged then and scream that he was being bought off by his contributors then?

Rhinehold, did you? Unless that’s some feeble attempt to call me a hypocrite, I’m not sure where you’re going with it.

Adrienne’s right, though. Success and prosperity buy a lot of forgiveness. Failure and financial ruin lead to… Say wasn’t that a stirring inauguration speech Bush just gave? Not really, huh.

It was a very stirring speech, AP. I especially liked when he said:

All who live in tyranny and hopelessness can know: The United States will not ignore your oppression, or excuse your oppressors. When you stand for your liberty, we will stand with you.

Too bad the “All” is growing to encompass the United States itself, under the Bush Administration. With the great job the administration did during this inaguration to silence anyone who stood in opposition, he really should have said “We will stand ON TOP of you.”

Adrienne
“Its not the entire Party, its the Neo-Con Wing which is so well represented by Dubya and Co. that I hate.”

I totally agree with you stating a difference between the Republicans and the Neo-Con wing.
Would it not be fair then to say that there is a difference between Democrats and its liberal wing?
The average Republican and Democrat joe-blow [or jane-blow:)] worries about the liberals in much the same way that you worry about Neo-Cons.

kctim:
“Would it not be fair then to say that there is a difference between Democrats and its liberal wing?”

Yeah, big difference. For me, its so different, its called the Green Party, now.

“The average Republican and Democrat joe-blow [or jane-blow:)] worries about the liberals in much the same way that you worry about Neo-Cons.”

No doubt you’re right - but its all unnecessary fear being whipped up by the pathetic likes of Faux News and Rush. Meanwhile, the Neo-Cons are waving flags and using patriot rhetoric to send our soldiers to be maimed or to die for no reason in Iraq, to tear down the wall of Separation Between Church and State, and to attack and abridge our Constitutional Rights.

Would it not be fair then to say that there is a difference between Democrats and its liberal wing?

Of course. But the tree-hugger/vegan wing doesn’t exert anywhere near the influence on the Democratic Party as the neo-conservative movement does on the GOP.

Hey, what was the deal with all the signs of Satan being made at the inauguration?

Thanks for your comments Adrienne and AP, it always helps in my trying to understand liberals and neo-cons.
I only disagree in the its all unnecessary fear parts. I believe both liberals and neo-cons are extreme views and dont represent the majority of Americans. Both sides are guilty to me.
Thanks again.

AP
Signs of Satan huh?
Many have said it is just the “hook em horns” sign from Texas University I think.

But others believe the links such as below:
http://www.infowars.com/print/Secret_societies/in_your_face.htm

quote text

Sorry, not sure why I cant get that right, lol.
Heres the address if your interested.

http://www.infowars.com/print/Secret_societies/in_your_face.htm

I know its a wild site, but there are lots of stories with links from major newspapers.
Just some interesting or funny reading on the Satan signs you mentioned.

Re: protestors

I read that only 14 people were arrested.

According to press reports a couple dozen people who wanted to be arrested in Lafayette Park, where they staged a “die in” were just ignored by police. They lay on the cold ground for a while and then went home. It was just bad manners on the part of the police that they didn’t play the role protestors assigned them.

Re: why presidents can’t walk around freely anymore

It only takes one radical to attack the president and any president will come in contact will millions of them. Our open society doesn’t control people to the extent needed to make him safe. Hitler could walk among his people in safety until the war because he had effectively eliminated his opposition and locked down his country. The same is true of many dictators, but you are mistaken about Saddam. This is the man who employed dozens of doubles and never slept in the same places two days in a row. His famous walk through Baghdad was an anomaly and probably well choreographed.

It is just too easy to assassinate someone. Lincoln, Garfield, McKinley and Kennedy were killed by unsophisticated means available to almost anyone. Think Lynette “Squeaky” Fromme who tried to kill Gerald Ford on the subliminal suggestion of Charles Manson. She got close enough and was prevented only by her bad luck and lack of skill with firearms. Or how about John Hinckley trying to kill President Reagan in order to impress Jody Foster?

So why can’t the president walk freely? Nutzos, radicals, and just plain bad guys.

“Regarding the Klan being Southern Baptists” note, I think David Dukes ascendency down there would give strength to that argument. But I’d rather lay it at the feet of the neo-con media machine that’s been so successful in spreading their revisionist news and history that I had whom I had thought was an intelligent , educated black freind inform me, seriously, that the democrats are the party of the Klan. Hopefully, with David Powell stepping down as head of the FCC the public outcry against further Media monopolization will be heard and the right-wing (yes, right-wing media- Columbia School of Journalism, 2002) media can be at least slowed in becoming a propaganda machine that would make Goebbels proud.

Has Bush actually come out and said it’s the “hook ‘em horns” sign, or is everybody just assuming that’s what he means?

I see where it caused a stir in Norway,

OSLO, Norway - President Bush’s “Hook ‘em, ‘horns” salute got lost in translation in Norway, where shocked people interpreted his hand gesture during his inauguration as a salute to Satan.

kctim, thanks for the link. There are also plenty of mainstream Christian websites that talk about that gesture as a Satanist symbol.

…But I’m sure it’s totally innocent coming from the President of the United States.

I read in the paper today that another 72 people were arrested in ‘protests” against Bush. Evidently a bunch of drunks, patrons of punk rock concert, anarchists got together for a little looting – sorry alternative shopping – and vandalism – sorry anti globalists protests. But they are legitimate protestors because the chanted anti Bush slogans while doing their business.

I guess if they had chosen to ‘flip the bird’ to all watching, that would have been universally understood.
I don’t know for sure - but I am guessing giving someone the finger means the same thing around the world.

Dawn

Actually, it doesn’t, although many people around the world have come to recognize it through American movies.

In some places what looks like our A-OK sign serves that purpose. It causes some misunderstanding when a nice foreigner helps an American who responds by flashing what he thinks is a polite A-OK.

Thanks Jack .. I knew it was something like you said but I couldn’t remember for sure.

Apparently the horns of satan sign is universal among Christians. :)