December 30, 2004
Where Is America?
I called my Mom after the tsunami hit. Singapore was spared any serious damage, but the initial news reports were sketchy, so I figured I should let her know we were ok. A full twelve hours after it struck, she still had no idea anything had happened.
While CNN International already had the graphics and theme music produced, the US media was still reporting the event as a single news ticker item.
So it was with disappointment, rather than surprise that I kept checking the daily newspaper in vain for an official statement from President Bush. And the initial pledge of $15 million in aid seemed pretty inadequate, given what I was seeing on the news.
President Bush really missed out on a chance to be the hero - to gain some real respect and soft power that could be traded for worldwide goodwill and assistance in our counter-terrorism efforts.
While the US may eventually provide more aid than other countries, what will be remembered around the world is an America that appeared to ignore this terrible crisis until international public outcry became too loud to ignore.
Watching the news today, I saw rows and rows of hundreds of bloated bodies, rotting in Thailand's tropical heat, lined up at makeshift morgues being sprayed with disinfectant, while sobbing loved ones staggered about peering into fetid-smelling body bags searching for missing wives, husbands, sons, and daughters.
I saw a man wandering through the ruins of Banda Aceh in Indonesia sobbing, "Where is America?"
The tsunami was a huge event and effected many countries but I am concerned about Aceh, Indonesia which according to Reuters was hit the hardest. Aceh, at the northern tip of Sumatra, Indonesia has been the site of an often bloody separatist insurgency. The Indonesian military has treated the province harshly at times and probably will be slow to allow relief into the area. The specifics of control of relief money is critical and the chances the money will be deverted are large. I hope water and essential goods can be sent rather than just money but transportation is a problem. Politicians will talk and the news media will be quick to judge but the key will be situational problem-solving if the people at ground zero are going to be helped.
Posted by: Tom Besly at December 30, 2004 07:53 AMTom, from what I’m reading, lack of infrastructure is the biggest problem. They estimate the roads will take a month to clear, and there are only two helicopters available in Aceh.
Sri Lanka, on the other hand, is being accused of withholding aid to Tamil held regions.
If anyone wants to help out, my understanding is that the International Federation of Red Cross and Red Crescent is coordinading most of the relief.
Posted by: American Pundit at December 30, 2004 10:01 AMPresident Bush really missed out on a chance to be the hero - to gain some real respect and soft power that could be traded for worldwide goodwill and assistance in our counter-terrorism efforts.
See, that is the essential Clintonista outlook of jumping on any news media opportunity to try to appear as a popular president. Actions speak louder than words and in the end the US will be one of the main contributors to this cause.
I just can’t believe media organizations use something like a catastrophe to criticize the President. Where the hell is the outrage over that numbnut Englund calling us a “stingy” nation??!!
How many BILLIONS of dollars of aid have we sent to foreign nations for rebuilding??
Anyone else going to cry about our increasing deficit now?
Putzes!
Posted by: Big Al at December 30, 2004 10:10 AM“Actions speak louder than words and in the end the US will be one of the main contributors to this cause.”
- Very true Big Al. But in the end, most of the world will not know this.
America will still be the easy scapegoat for all the worlds problems.
Big Al and kctim,
While the US may eventually provide more aid than other countries, what will be remembered around the world is an America that appeared to ignore this terrible crisis until international public outcry became too loud to ignore.
If someone had shaken Bush out of his vacation stupor long enough to make a quick statement of sympathy, this wouldn’t even be an issue.
The dollar amount isn’t the problem, it’s the perception that Bush doesn’t care.
Like I said on the other side: if Bush was any good, Clinton wouldn’t have had to say anything.
clinton(ugh) didnt “have” to say anything. He chose to put himself in the spotlight, yet again.
“it’s the perception that Bush doesn’t care”
- As also stated on the other side, you can thank this perception on the liberal media and those who just simply hate Bush.
Why is it automatically a “vacation stupor” by those people?
Is it not also possible that he WAS working with other leaders or was simply trying to get as many facts as possible before he made a public statement?
To use a natural disaster to immediately start criticizing Bush is pretty low.
Sadly, it is these statements, most by American people with a political agenda, that the world will take as facts and not the actual aid that has occurred and will continue to the end.
It was the lack of a public statement by President Bush, not the US media, that had the rest of the world asking, where is America. I checked the Singapore Straits Times every day hoping for some kind of statement and wondering, what the hell is going on over there (in America).
Is it not also possible that he WAS working with other leaders or was simply trying to get as many facts as possible before he made a public statement?
Please. How many consultations does it take before you can say, “Gee, a tsunami? Of course we’ll help out.”
kctim
“Is it not also possible that he WAS working with other leaders or was simply trying to get as many facts as possible before he made a public statement?”
You don’t need all the facts to make a public statement of sympathy. If Bush had made a statement on Sunday, however banal, instead of three days later, the world, and indeed the American press would have had nothing to criticize.
If Bush had come out early, the press would have criticized his lack of specifics and called him uniformed. I have on two occasions seen Bush give masterful speeches on foreign policy and then read the press reports describing something I didn’t see and could hardly recognize.
It is flattering that a man wandering through the ruins of Banda Aceh in Indonesia cries, “Where is America?” and not where is France or Germany or even his own family or his own government, but it is also an obviously impossible role to fill. It is also ironic that even those who claim to dislike America call for us as though we were the lord.
American aid will be impressive and crucial. I have no doubt (and neither does anyone else) that the U.S. will turn out to be the largest contributor to alleviate this tragedy. The U.S. military will supply the planes, helicopters and boats to reach the inaccessible regions you mention. Nobody else can do that. The U.S. has dispatched a carrier group. Clean water is a problem. Five American water purification ships will soon arrive. They alone will save thousands of lives.
If people are so shallow and ignorant that they can’t differentiate between promises of sympathy and help and the real thing, well maybe that is why we have such troubles. But I believe the people affected will see the truth. It will only be in western universities and salons were the darkness will never brighten.
kctim-
Stop making excuses. I thought this was the land of competition. If Bush can’t compete with a former president in terms of expressing America’s condolences in the region, that’s his own fault.
I sometimes get the impression that Bush is what you get when you have a president who worked his way up by social promotion. You guys are paying the price for not getting a more qualified candidate when you had the chance.
I’ll tell you this: a great deal of the resentment about Bush is his inability to acknowledge any mistake whatsoever, his tendency and the tendency of his administration as a whole to offer excuses, spin, keep things secret, and attack critics and fact-finders rather than face up to the situation at hand and react to it competently. At least Clinton could show some humility in the face of his personal and political mistakes, rather than just bluster and hissy-fit his way through it.
Bush, his people, and your people need to get off the high horse and do your jobs. You’ve advertised what great and wise rulers you guys are. It’s time to stop talking, and start living up to your promises, your propaganda. And no, you haven’t been. The insurgency alone is evidence of that. Make an effort, stop scapegoating us for your bad image.
Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at December 30, 2004 12:05 PMPuhleeze, Pundit!! this is the exact same shit with the 7 minute My Favorite Goat shenanigan that the liberal media and YOURSELF included are pining on Bush. It’s your liberal biased that shows and that is the topic of this argument.
ACTIONS WILL SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS and ultimately the US will once AGAIN be a main factor in rebuilding these nations.
Of course, if Haliburton were to get involved, it would somehow turn into how they created the tsunami in order to profit!!
Posted by: Big Al at December 30, 2004 12:22 PMThings must be pretty slow around the complaint department to come up with this topic.
I for one am not going to loose any sleep because one person in Indonesia is supposedly running around asking where is america. Maybe he should be asking where are his muslim brethren, Iran, syria, etc. And this is probably the same guy who thinks that we are imperialistic and wants us to stay away.
I also am not going to loose any sleep because a guy at the UN thinks we are stingy. I would take notice if it came from someone who mattered though.
And I surely don’t think that relief efforts are at a standstill waiting to see when the President of the U.S.A. utters recognition of a tragedy to “show that he cares”.
In a nutshell, I like to consider the source before I go all loopy on something.
bnorth
Posted by: brad at December 30, 2004 12:34 PMI am also a government employee and I am also on vacation for Christmas. So far, I worked three complete days from home, while on vacation! And I’ve taken no less than a half-dozen phone calls each day in addition to those lost three days. I suspect that President Bush is also ‘enjoying’ his vacation in a similar but more hectic vein. To those of you who complain so loudly, how many of your vacation days have you spent working? I will never begrudge any president the few precious days out of the White House that he gets by going on vacation. As you see, he never actually gets a day off.
Posted by: John at December 30, 2004 12:46 PMAs to “Where is America?”, I say where are the Muslim nations?
Posted by: John at December 30, 2004 12:47 PMAmerican Pundit:
“So it was with disappointment, rather than surprise that I kept checking the daily newspaper in vain for an official statement from President Bush.”
I know what you mean, AP, I couldn’t believe that he didn’t come out immediately and make a statement. Much like on 9/11 when I kept wondering “Where the hell is Dubya? Why hasn’t he made an appearance?”. For a guy who claims to love the bible, he had _nothing_ to say after a disaster of biblical proportions?!
And after all of his shamefully embarrassing international mistakes, he couldn’t manage to handle a bit of the most basic sort of diplomacy - even when it turned out that the king of Thailand had lost his grandson.
“And the initial pledge of $15 million in aid seemed pretty inadequate, given what I was seeing on the news.”
No doubt we’ll end up giving plenty more money after the Red Cross and other NGO’s give their reports on what is going to be needed in the next several months, but it still won’t erase the idea in the minds of people around the world that he couldn’t be bothered to express a little horror at what had happened and America’s profound sympathy for the countries and the people who were affected.
“President Bush really missed out on a chance to be the hero - to gain some real respect and soft power that could be traded for worldwide goodwill and assistance in our counter-terrorism efforts.”
You’re absolutely right. But no, this dumbass just has to keep wiping his feet on our good name.
“While the US may eventually provide more aid than other countries, what will be remembered around the world is an America that appeared to ignore this terrible crisis until international public outcry became too loud to ignore.”
Supposedly he was making calls to other leaders and discussing relief efforts, but without making a public statement, it looked like America didn’t care. That’s the problem with obsessively secretive administrations - they don’t want anyone to know what is going on behind the scenes, even when it comes to something like this - something the whole world is grieving over.
“Watching the news today, I saw rows and rows of hundreds of bloated bodies, rotting in Thailand’s tropical heat, lined up at makeshift morgues being sprayed with disinfectant, while sobbing loved ones staggered about peering into fetid-smelling body bags searching for missing wives, husbands, sons, and daughters.”
Its monumentally horrific. And it might get much worse before its over because of the diseases that will surely follow. Also, there may be a lot of political unrest that results in several of the countries.
“I saw a man wandering through the ruins of Banda Aceh in Indonesia sobbing, “Where is America?”“
We’ll be there, we always are. But as usual, our resident chimp really blew his chance to display goodwill toward the world, and collectively, America’s truly generous character.
“You don’t need all the facts to make a public statement of sympathy. If Bush had made a statement on Sunday, however banal, instead of three days later, the world, and indeed the American press would have had nothing to criticize.”
Wrong.
They have nothing to criticize now but they still are. Creating whatever they can to make Bush and America look bad in the eyes of the world.
Bush could have warned 99% of the people killed and personally saved their lives and you all would still be bitching about the 1% he couldnt get to.
This “timing” thing is so trivial that its almost laughable. There are much better things out there.
SD
Making excuses? Pointing out how silly this has become is alot better than creating excuses to bash Bush on.
“You guys are paying the price for not getting a more qualified candidate when you had the chance”
- There WASNT anyone more qualified than Bush running against him. When did we have a chance?
“At least Clinton could show some humility in the face of his personal and political mistakes”
- Yea, insincere “I feel your pain” statements really mean alot to people who are suffering. Somehow I think the actual deployment of help has been better than hearing anymore of that crap.
“Bush, his people, and your people need to get off the high horse and do your jobs”
- If that entails worrying about what the world thinks of us despite the facts and generally kissing the worlds ass at our own expense, no thanks.
“Make an effort, stop scapegoating us for your bad image.”
- Blaming liberals for SOME of our bad image is alot better than blaming America for EVERYTHING.
9/11? the pretense for war? govt. controlled elections? the national debt? the Patriot Acts?
Noooo! Lets complain about Bush’s timing and what the world thinks of us, despite the facts.
It is nice to know that if lies, forged documents and fear mongering doesn’t work, we can always blame mother nature.
Posted by: kctim at December 30, 2004 02:57 PMPuhleeze, Pundit!! this is the exact same shit with the 7 minute My Favorite Goat (-1) shenanigan that the liberal media and YOURSELF included are pining (-1) on Bush. It’s your liberal biased (-1) that shows [,] (-1) and that is the topic of this argument.ACTIONS WILL SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS [,] (-1) and ultimately the US will once AGAIN be a main factor in rebuilding these nations.
Of course, if Haliburton (-1) were to get involved, it would somehow turn into how they created the tsunami in order to profit!!
Illiteracy: it’s what’s for Conservative Dinner!
(I suppose the whole disaster must somehow be Bill or Hillary Clinton’s fault; no doubt our Home-Schooled friends from the Heartland will illuminate this proposition for us in further drooling diatribes from the Right.)
Captain
Ad hominem - cut it out. It does nothing for your argument. It implies it is all you have.
Posted by: Jack at December 30, 2004 04:19 PMkctim,
I’m sorry, I forgot that our President was sooo busy on his vacation that he couldn’t take the time.
Will there ever be a time when he isn’t on his ranch?
Hey, I have to admit it, I would have rather seen John McCain in the White House. I have always thought that Bush was a moron. And until he does something to change my mind, I will always belive that Bush is a moron.
I think Bush is doing just great. It takes a bit of time to figure out a game plan. They have decided to go around the UN which I think is great. That means more accountability with the money. America will be there for the long haul. In the end the UN will look powerless (which they are) and the US will pay the bill.
I suppose if Bush were a talker instead of a doer he could have done things differently.
Craig
Posted by: Craig Holmes at December 30, 2004 05:55 PMI don’t care if he was or wasn’t on vacation. Crying wolf over this timing thing is silly.
Don’t really know how often he is on his ranch either. But thats as silly as asking “was there ever a time when bill(ugh) and monica werent in the oval office.”
McCain? Bush? It wouldn’t have mattered. He would have still been lambasted because of what party he was a member of.
He needs to change my mind also.
Posted by: kctim at December 30, 2004 05:55 PMOkay … so if Bush had come out IMMEDIATELY and said something what would the criticism be then?
‘Look at Bush trying to gain points in the Muslim world again. Using a disaster to gain political points.’???
It wouldn’t matter - either way there are complaints - he’s too fast, he didn’t have all the facts - he’s too slow, he should have been out there saying something sooner.
For the people who hate Bush it doesn’t matter what he says or does.
If he does things the way Bush haters want - they say it’s about time or he is just trying to gain points or that he doesn’t mean it.
What is so wrong with finding out what is needed and the totallity of the disaster before a pledge is made? Nothing.
I can see Bush making a pledge for an amount that exceeds what is needed and then being jumped on for that. Where will he get the money? Will he have to raise taxes? Will the groundhog have to give up his winter museum?
Give Bush a break for once. Damn.
Kofi came out after his vacation and I hear nothing about the leader OF THE UN NOT saying anything sooner.
Posted by: dawn at December 30, 2004 07:34 PMOkay … so if Bush had come out IMMEDIATELY and said something what would the criticism be then?
Unless he didn’t offer any aid at all, I wouldn’t have any problem.
Being in the region, and not hearing any kind of statement by President Bush left me personally vulnerable to criticism by these people, and completely embarrassed by my “leader’s” lack of compassion and… well, leadership.
It’s not just the US media that was wondering what happened to President Bush, it’s the rest of the world too.
And maybe it will make you Bush fans happy to know that the Swedish government is also being criticized for being slow to take the crisis seriously.
This isn’t an anti-Bush vendetta, it’s an American citizen wondering why his president remained silent and cloistered for days, and pointing out that the result will be loss of prestige and goodwill around the world.
If anyone doesn’t think that’s important, you’re welcome to continue wallowing in your ignorance.
And since I realize even the ignorant have a heart, I’ll remind everyone that the International Federation of Red Cross and Red Crescent is coordinading most of the relief. Cash is the most urgent need.
Posted by: American Pundit at December 30, 2004 08:53 PMPundit.
“This isn’t an anti-Bush vendetta, it’s an American citizen wondering why his president remained silent and cloistered for days, and pointing out that the result will be loss of prestige and goodwill around the world.”’
Come now aren’t we being a bit ultrusitic here. Look in the mirror and see if you can repeat this paragraph and keep a straight face. I bet it doesn’t happen.
Then: “Being in the region, and not hearing any kind of statement by President Bush left me personally vulnerable to criticism by these people, and completely embarrassed by my “leader’s” lack of compassion and… well, leadership.”
Am I to believe that you were, well, injured by being embarrassed? Well I’m a bit embarrassed that you are embarrassed in a foreign land. I would bet that the bulk of the criticsm happening within a mile of you is by you. am I wrong??
Like I said earlier, it must have been a slow day in the complaint department.
Brad
Poor Bush, we never give him a break.
Or maybe there are real problems with his presidency. In which case we have a right to complain.
The problem here isn’t timing, it’s opportunity. As in lost opportunities. As in, you don’t get a second chance to make a first impression on the rest of history. History passed Bush by at Tora Bora, at the Kuwait border, in those meetings where troop strength and post-war planning were discussed. The real irony is, that for all the Republicans and Conservatives speak of making history they have a lousy sense of how permanent a thing it is, and the logical necessity for good thinking and planning that comes with that fact.
Bush made us look bad in the eyes of the world, by choking when the opportunity came. Maybe a CEO can afford to do constant damage control, but the President of the United States has much greater responsibilities, and his decision make for lasting consequences.
As for your responses:
1)Yes, you had a chance, four years ago. You could have at least tried McCain, instead of Bush. Tell me, apart from a few business deals, and the governorship of a state where the executive has to get a constitutional amendment to blow his nose, what precisely was Bush’s experience as a leader?
2)You claim insincerity, but regardless of the information gained by your newfound telepathic talents, even insincere condolences at the right time is better than projecting an image of not caring. And yes, people legitimately care what the most powerful nation in the world takes heed of. And they have been known to turn against us when our power is exercised to often in apathy or opposition to their interests. The disaster victims will appreciate the assistance, but the rest of the substantial population of that region will have more distance from that, and less distance from America’s official response.
3)Despite the facts? As I recall it in Iraq, the rest of the world had a better bead on what was the case than we did. Regardless, my point is this: Stop trying to surpress dissent about your mistakes, and start doing something about them.
4)What does it say that I critique your side for its scapegoating of my side, and you decide to respond by hurling a stereotype my way? You must be joking. It’s easy to believe that Liberals just don’t love their country, because one can eternally second guess any protest to the opposing viewpoint. I mean, of course the ones you are vilifying will deny it. What villain would acknowledge their evil openly.
Problem is, most of us are patriots to, so we don’t take your vilification of us lightly, especially when it means double standards on your part. We’re not lying, we’re not fear-mongering, and anybody well informed about the document forging case knows that the person who confirmed the forgery also confirmed the contents of the forgeries.
As for those other subjects? Well, I suppose we can’t argue those things all the time.
Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at December 30, 2004 09:17 PMLast X’mas American (a kind of creature that resemble human but worse than any animals) spends more than 100 billions in their X’mas shopping, but, when he reluctantly fished out less than 10 millions to help the very needy, they want the world to know they are generous. They are only willing to *plan* for additional fund after being exposed by media and UN.
May 911 strike America again and again
Posted by: sidney at December 30, 2004 09:19 PMStephen Daugherty,
Don’t use Bush as an excuse. It is in American’s DNA to steal the natural resource/labor form the Poor of the rest of the world. To achieve this end, they either use
1) their finanical system to artifically suppress commodity price or
2) bomb and missle to kill innocent citizen to make these countries to sumbit
And American always cheers their Presidents all along.
American, you are cursed!
Posted by: sidney at December 30, 2004 09:26 PMSo, Sidney, do they only let you out on holidays or do you have access to computers other times as well.
Posted by: Jack at December 30, 2004 09:28 PMJack,
Thanks for your concern. I am fine. I just usually need to take some anti-depressant medication whenever after I have shaked hand with any American or been too close to them. They are usually unbearable.
For example, For once I explained to them that one cannot reach Shanghai from Tokyo by train because Japan is an Island and SH is a city in China. They will become furious and lectured me about the “Rapture” - the “left behind” thing you know - The Kind and Sincere and Compassionate Conservative American will somehow suddenly disappear with their clothes left behind, well ironed and folded.
Of course, As a colored people I will be damned and left behind, because I dare to tell them something about geography.
Posted by: sidney at December 30, 2004 09:46 PMWhy is it only the right are patriots and only the left are treasonous?
Talk about duplicity!
I guess it’s time for the conservitive movement to stop and discover that it has no heart.
Bush was hiding on Sept. 11th when America needed him most, and Bush was hiding on Dec. 26th when the world needed him most.
The more things change, the more they stay the same.
Syndey
Well as long as we are not judging eveyone in a group of nearly three million by the couple we have met, I guess it’s not racism.
Posted by: jack at December 30, 2004 10:50 PMSidney,
You said,”May 911 strike America again and again”
NICE … glad you added your very compassionate wish to this thread.
Now all of a sudden(not), it is dispicable of Americans to spend money on each other? We are horrible people because we bought CHRISTMAS presents? What a joke. You must be able to do better than that.
Because OUR President didn’t come right out and ‘mourn’ the loss the world looks down on the U.S?
If that is true .. then ‘The World’ needs to grow up and stop expecting the U.S. to kiss it’s collective ASS.
Whatever is said it turns into a compliment for one country and bashing for another.
Now… all the money that the U.S. and it’s citizens sends to help out means nothing because President Bush didn’t grab a microphone and KISS THE WORLD’S ASS … saying THE RIGHT WORDS AT THE RIGHT TIME?
‘Exposed’ by the UN ?? the UN? where was the UN? on vacation? except for the moron who made the comments about Americans being stingy with aid?(Who has now basically said he put his big fat foot in his own big fat mouth!) Where has he been? on vacation? another planet? Did you miss that part? The part where he now has to kiss our ASS? Knowing that the tightwad U.S. spends more than the UN budget on world problems?
The UN and the governments of a lot of other countries have to get their heads out of their own asses.
bugcrazy,
The money you (American) spent on gift is for your own indulgence! When you spend $100 on sexy underpant in order to get laid, you (American) only willing to give out 10 cents for charity! And for this 10 cents you cry out loud to the world: “Hey, guess what?! we HAVE BEEN VERY generous”. Meanwhile, teams of volunters from Europe, Australia and Japan are already on site to help distribute clean water and food! So much for a god-loveing compassionate nation!
You know, besides kick-ass and have-sex, there are a lot of thing worth to do for a human. But American are incapable of more complicated activities beyond kick-ass and have-sex. So, I’ll try my best to forgive you.
Posted by: sidney at December 31, 2004 12:05 AM
Because OUR President didn’t come right out and ‘mourn’ the loss the world looks down on the U.S? If that is true .. then ‘The World’ needs to grow up and stop expecting the U.S. to kiss it’s collective ASS.
Then I guess we shouldn’t expect the rest of the world to round up terrorists or inform us of terrorist plots in a timely manner. Since the FBI broke up that al Qaeda cell in Buffalo NY, all the major arrests and plot foilings have been made by other countries.
They don’t have to do that, and I suspect they’re already at the point where they don’t help Bush as much as they could. Certainly not publicly.
Bush has become reviled enough by people around the world that publicly helping him is the kiss of death for many world leaders, including the ones who could help us most, like Abdullah and Yudhoyono.
Dick Cheney, the VP is an Israeli MOLE in DC. He answers to Sharon’s
NEOZIONISTS ! These assassins invented Al-Qaeda.
http://www.abcnorio.org/pcgi-bin/boards/housing/robboard.cgi?action=display&num=76
Dick Cheney, the VP is an Israeli MOLE in DC. He answers to Sharon’s
MOSSAD & The NEO-LIKUDNIKS & OSP is the TOOL.
Karl Roverer was used as a ” Convenient ” sewage Conduit to put in Motion :
Karl Rove’s White House ” Murder Inc. ” in August of 2001.
January 24th 2002, 940AM in Beirut , will be remembered for Decades.
Sharon’s MOSSAD & Karl Rove’s White House ” Assassination Inc. ” !!!
http://www.abcnorio.org/pcgi-bin/boards/housing/robboard.cgi?action=display&num=70
“The significance of this masterpiece is not only the divulsion of facts,
but the focus it’s made on the covert cooperation between the parties who
are playing enemies…. “
Syrian Government’s Assassins Murder ex-Minister and ex-Member of Parliament
Mr. Elie Hobeika in the Most ” secure ” Area of Beirut , Lebanon.
Special Investigation.
http://www.abcnorio.org/pcgi-bin/boards/housing/robboard.cgi?action=display&num=75
DEC., 2004- On September 15, 2001, just four days after the 9-11 attacks,
CIA Director George Tenet provided President [sic] Bush with a Top Secret
“Worldwide Attack Matrix”-a virtual license to kill targets deemed to be a
threat to the United States in some 80 countries around the world. The Tenet
plan, which was subsequently approved by Bush, essentially reversed the
executive orders of four previous U.S. administrations that expressly
prohibited political assassinations.
According to high level European intelligence officials, Bush’s counselor,
Karl Rove, used the new presidential authority to silence a popular Lebanese
Christian politician who was planning to offer irrefutable evidence that
Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon authorized the massacre of hundreds of
Palestinian men, women, and children in the Beirut refugee camps of Sabra
and Shatilla in 1982. In addition, Sharon provided the Lebanese forces who
carried out the grisly task. At the time of the massacres, Elie Hobeika was
intelligence chief of Lebanese Christian forces in Lebanon who were battling
Palestinians and other Muslim groups in a bloody civil war. He was also the
chief liaison to Israeli Defense Force (IDF) personnel in Lebanon. An
official Israeli inquiry into the massacre at the camps, the Kahan
Commission, merely found Sharon “indirectly” responsible for the slaughter
and fingered Hobeika as the chief instigator.
The Kahan Commission never called on Hobeika to offer testimony in his
defense. However, in response to charges brought against Sharon before a
special war crimes court in Belgium, Hobeika was urged to testify against
Sharon, according to well-informed Lebanese sources. Hobeika was prepared to
offer a different version of events than what was contained in the Kahan
report. A 1993 Belgian law permitting human rights prosecutions was unusual
in that non-Belgians could be tried for violations against other
non-Belgians in a Belgian court. Under pressure from the Bush
administration, the law was severely amended and the extra territoriality
provisions were curtailed.
Hobeika headed the Lebanese forces intelligence agency since the mid- 1970s
and he soon developed close ties to the CIA. He was a frequent visitor to
the CIA’s headquarters at Langley, Virginia. After the Syrian invasion of
Lebanon in 1990, Hobeika held a number of cabinet positions in the Lebanese
government, a proxy for the Syrian occupation authorities. He also served in
the parliament. In July 2001, Hobeika called a press conference and
announced he was prepared to testify against Sharon in Belgium and revealed
that he had evidence of what actually occurred in Sabra and Shatilla.
Hobeika also indicated that Israel had flown members of the South Lebanon
Army (SLA) into Beirut International Airport in an Israeli Air Force C130
transport plane, in full view of dozens of witnesses, including members of
the Lebanese army and others. SLA troops under the command of Major Saad
Haddad were slipped into the camps to commit the massacres. The SLA troops
were under the direct command of Ariel Sharon and an Israeli Mossad agent
provocateur named Rafi Eitan. Hobeika offered evidence that a former U.S.
ambassador to Lebanon was aware of the Israeli plot. In addition, the IDF
had placed a camera in a strategic position to film the Sabra and Shatilla
massacres. Hobeika was going to ask that the footage be released as part of
the investigation of Sharon.
After announcing he was willing to testify against Sharon, Hobeika became
fearful for his safety and began moves to leave Lebanon. Hobeika was not
aware that his threats to testify against Sharon had triggered a series of
fateful events that reached well into the White House and Sharon’s office.
On January 24, 2002, Hobeika’s car was blown up by a remote controlled bomb
placed in a parked Mercedes along a street in the Hazmieh section of Beirut.
The bomb exploded when Hobeika and his three associates, Fares Souweidan,
Mitri Ajram, and Waleed Zein, were driving their Range Rover past the
TNT-laden Mercedes at 9:40 am Beirut time. The Range Rover’s four passengers
were killed in the explosion. In case Hobeika’s car had taken another route
through the neighborhood, two additional parked cars, located at two other
choke points, were also rigged with TNT. The powerful bomb wounded a number
of other people on the street. Other parked cars were destroyed and
buildings and homes were damaged. The Lebanese president, prime minister,
and interior minister all claimed that Israeli agents were behind the
attack.
It is noteworthy that the State Department’s list of global terrorist
incidents for 2002 worldwide failed to list the car bombing attack on
Hobeika and his party. The White House wanted to ensure the attack was
censored from the report. The reason was simple: the attack ultimately had
Washington’s fingerprints on it.
High level European intelligence sources now report that Karl Rove
personally coordinated Hobeika’s assassination. The hit on Hobeika employed
Syrian intelligence agents. Syrian President Bashar Assad was trying to
curry favor with the Bush administration in the aftermath of 9-11 and was
more than willing to help the White House. In addition, Assad’s father,
Hafez Assad, had been an ally of Bush’s father during Desert Storm, a period
that saw Washington give a “wink and a nod” to Syria’s occupation of
Lebanon. Rove wanted to help Sharon avoid any political embarrassment from
an in absentia trial in Brussels where Hobeika would be a star witness. Rove
and Sharon agreed on the plan to use Syrian Military Intelligence agents to
assassinate Hobeika. Rove saw Sharon as an indispensable ally of Bush in
ensuring the loyalty of the Christian evangelical and Jewish voting blocs in
the United States. Sharon saw the plan to have the United States coordinate
the hit as a way to mask all connections to Jerusalem.
The Syrian hit team was ordered by Assef Shawkat, the number two man in
Syrian military intelligence and a good friend and brother in law of Syrian
President Bashar Assad. Assad’s intelligence services had already cooperated
with U.S. intelligence in resorting to unconventional methods to extract
information from al Qaeda detainees deported to Syria from the United States
and other countries in the wake of 9-11. The order to take out Hobeika was
transmitted by Shawkat to Roustom Ghazali, the head of Syrian military
intelligence in Beirut. Ghazali arranged for the three remote controlled
cars to be parked along Hobeika’s route in Hazmieh; only few hundred yards
from the Barracks of Syrian Special Forces which are stationed in the area
near the Presidential palace , the ministry of Defense and various
Government and officers quarters . This particular area is covered 24/7 by a
very sophisticated USA multi-agency surveillance system to monitor Syrian
and Lebanese security activities and is a ” Choice ” area to live in for its
perceived high security, [Courtesy of the Special Collections Services.]
SCS…; CIA & NSA & DIA….etc.
The plan to kill Hobeika had all the necessary caveats and built-in denial
mechanisms. If the Syrians were discovered beforehand or afterwards, Karl
Rove and his associates in the Pentagon’s Office of Special Plans would be
ensured plausible deniability.
Hobeika’s CIA intermediary in Beirut, a man only referred to as “Jason” by
Hobeika, was a frequent companion of the Lebanese politician during official
and off-duty hours. During Hobeika’s election campaigns for his
parliamentary seat, Jason was often in Hobeika’s office offering support and
advice. After Hobeika’s assassination, Jason became despondent over the
death of his colleague. Eventually, Jason disappeared abruptly from Lebanon
and reportedly later emerged in Pakistan.
Karl Rove’s involvement in the assassination of Hobeika may not have been
the last “hit” he ordered to help out Sharon. In March 2002, a few months
after Hobeika’s assassination, another Lebanese Christian with knowledge of
Sharon’s involvement in the Sabra and Shatilla massacres was gunned down
along with his wife in Sao Paulo, Brazil. A bullet fired at Michael Nassar’s
car flattened one of his tires. Nassar pulled into a gasoline station for
repairs. A professional assassin, firing a gun with a silencer, shot Nassar
and his wife in the head, killing them both instantly. The assailant fled
and was never captured. Nassar was also involved with the Phalange militia
at Sabra and Shatilla. Nassar was also reportedly willing to testify against
Sharon in Belgium and, as a nephew of SLA Commander General Antoine Lahd,
may have had important evidence to bolster Hobeika’s charge that Sharon
ordered SLA forces into the camps to wipe out the Palestinians.
Based on what European intelligence claims is concrete intelligence on
Rove’s involvement in the assassination of Hobeika, the Bush administration
can now add political assassination to its laundry list of other misdeeds,
from lying about the reasons to go to war to the torture tactics in
violation of the Geneva Conventions that have been employed by the Pentagon
and “third country” nationals at prisons in Iraq and Guantanamo Bay.
Karl Rove’s White House ” Murder Inc. “.
http://www.abcnorio.org/pcgi-bin/boards/housing/robboard.cgi?action=display&num=71
Tensions in the Middle East have prompted public expressions of anti-U.S.
rhetoric and public sentiment. Events in past years in Lebanon, such as
bombings directed at U.S. franchises and the November 2002 murder of a U.S.
citizen in Sidon, underscore the need for caution and sound personal
security precautions. Anti-American demonstrations have occurred in the last
12 months in refugee camps, in the southern suburbs of Beirut and in Beirut
proper to protest U.S. foreign policy. In May 2004, an anti-government
demonstration in the southern suburbs of Beirut turned violent resulting in
the deaths of five demonstrators.
It is noteworthy that the State Department’s list of global terrorist
incidents for 2002 worldwide failed to list the car bombing attack on
Hobeika and his party…. But Listed a small Hand Grenade thrown at
a U.S. franchise….? The White House wanted to ensure the attack was
censored from the report. The reason was simple: the attack ultimately had
Washington’s fingerprints on it…Karl Rove’s White House ” Murder Inc.”
http://www.abcnorio.org/pcgi-bin/boards/housing/robboard.cgi?action=display&num=71
This is some of the evidence for you and for the World ….
*******************************************************************************
~encrypted/logs/access ====>> INTELLIGENCE Agencies Servers footprints.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Not to mention hundreds of private companies and governments……..!
…See Below :
*******************************************************************************
Lines 10-36 of my logfiles show a lot of interest in this article:
# grep sid=1052 /encrypted/logs/access_log|awk ‘{print$1,$7}’|sed-n’10,36p’.
spb-213-33-248-190.sovintel.ru /modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1052
Soviet/Russian Intelligence services…
ext1.shape.nato.int /modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1052
NATO Intel.
server1.namsa.nato.int /modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1052
Nato Intel.
ns1.saclantc.nato.int /modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1052
Strategic Air Command US Intel.
bxlproxyb.europarl.eu.int /modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1052
European Parliament Intel. Unit
wdcsun18.usdoj.gov /modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1052
USA Department of Justice…
wdcsun21.usdoj.gov /modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1052
USA Department of Justice…
tcs-gateway11.treas.gov /modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1052
USA Treasury Department
tcs-gateway13.treas.gov /modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1052
USA Treasury Department
relay1.ucia.gov /modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1052
CIA Langley
relay2.cia.gov /modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1052
CIA Langley
relay2.ucia.gov /modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1052
CIA Langley
n021.dhs.gov /modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1052
USA Department of Homeland security Intel.
legion.dera.gov.uk /modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1052
British Intel.
gateway-fincen.uscg.mil /modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1052
Pentagon US.
crawler2.googlebot.com /modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1052
Intel….
crawler1.googlebot.com /modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1052
Intel…..
gateway101.gsi.gov.uk /modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1052
British Intel.
gate11-quantico.nmci.usmc.mil /modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1052
USA Marine Corps Quantico Virginia Intel.
gate13-quantico.nmci.usmc.mil /modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1052
USA Marine Corps Quantico Virginia Intel.
fw1-a.osis.gov /modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1052
US Intel SIS.
crawler13.googlebot.com /modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1052
Intel….
fw1-b.osis.gov /modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1052
US Intel. OSIS.
bouncer.nics.gov.uk /modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1052
British Intel.
beluha.ssu.gov.ua /modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1052
Ukrainian Intelligence.
zukprxpro02.zreo.compaq.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1052….
Intel….
http://www.abcnorio.org/pcgi-bin/boards/housing/robboard.cgi?action=display&num=75
“The significance of this masterpiece is not only the divulsion of facts,
but the focus it’s made on the covert cooperation between the parties who
are playing enemies…. ” At the very Least in Lebanon since the 1970s…!!!
http://www.abcnorio.org/pcgi-bin/boards/housing/robboard.cgi?action=display&num=76
captainozone,
Thanks for the needed laugh!
Posted by: Bert M. Caradine at December 31, 2004 10:00 AMbugcrazy,
“Because OUR President didn’t come right out and ‘mourn’ the loss the world looks down on the U.S?”
You’re damn right it does! And I don’t blame them.
Since America has taken over the role of “Cop to the World”, the world expects more from us. We put our selves in this position by defining how the world should be. We have only ourselves to blame for that.
For Bush to come out with his lame pronouncement, three days after the worst natural calamity in the recent past, is reprehensible. Even Arafat expressed his sympathy within 24 hours after Sept. 11.
Hey, maybe GW can give contracts to his cronies to rebuild the countries devestated by this disaster. How could he have missed a chance like that?
It seems that there is too much “discussion” and too little action. Just out of curiosity - how many of all of the people here have actually DONE something to help? I’ve spent most of the past week gathering supplies, and getting them ready to ship. What about you guys? Are you all talk and no action , or do you put action where your mouth is. This is NOT about politics.
This is about HUMAN lives, families and need. And caring for other people in the world is not a political debate, but part of WHO we are as Americans. Who is keeping score anyway? It is ridiculous to argue about this type of situation. You all sound like little children claiming “He got more of the cookie than I did.” Who cares WHO sent sympathy first, or who has more money to send - I guarantee the sick and injured don’t care - and we shouldn’t either.
Just as an aside - I don’t like Bush, and look forward to seeing him fly off to his ranch for good, but this should not be about Bush, but rather the people who need our help. We can agrue about prayer in schools, stem cell reseach, and who said what first, or we can SHOW the world WHO AMERICANS TRULY ARE and get busy.
Posted by: Linda at December 31, 2004 01:45 PMSupposedly he was making calls to other leaders and discussing relief efforts, but without making a public statement, it looked like America didn’t care. That’s the problem with obsessively secretive administrations - they don’t want anyone to know what is going on behind the scenes, even when it comes to something like this - something the whole world is grieving over.
You know, I am sorry if this has already been addressed but I simply good not bring myself to make it all the way through this string of posts.
Can any of the Bush bashers tell us which is more important, the speed with which relief arrives in the form of food, medicine etc. or the speed with which any nation’s leader expresses his sorrow for a disaster. Frankly if I were in the shoes of the victims, I would much rather world leaders were discussing with each other the logistics of getting the aid to me than going on TV to express their grief. You see, a TV sound bite does nothing to put water in my mouth, a roof over my head or a vaccination into my system to prevent me from getting some deadly illness.
It does not much matter what Bush did upon learning of the disaster. Had he been on TV seconds after learning of the devastation, American Pundit, Rocky, Stephan et. al. would have been roasting him for grandstanding instead of taking action with other leaders to start the process of sending aid.
You see, Bush stepped up and took action by conferring with Britain, Italy, Canada, Japan and Australia to coordinate relief efforts. Exactly the course of action that the leader of the free world should be taking.
So, stop your opportunism by using the death of 150,000 people to further spread your hatred of President Bush. If you want to use Bush’s positions on SS Reform, or Taxes etc. to Bash him be my guest and let the debate begin. To use this disaster in this manner is disgusting.
Linda,
Given my limited financial resources, I still went to careusa.org and donated $25 dollars from my credit card. I admire your efforts to gather goods to aid in the recovery, but I keep hearing over and over that donating money to such organizations as the Red Cross is the fastest and most effective way to help out!
I’ve noticed that the Bush Apologists all now have their marching order/talking points, asking in unison ‘Where are the Arab countries?’. As usual, they rushed back to point fingers instead of doing their homework, which might have saved them some embarrassment. Here is the most up-to-date info I could find on what the world has given so far - draw your own conclusions:
Surge In Aid For Tsunami Victims
Posted by: Bert M. Caradine at December 31, 2004 05:24 PM“Can any of the Bush bashers tell us which is more important, the speed with which relief arrives in the form of food, medicine etc. or the speed with which any nation’s leader expresses his sorrow for a disaster.”
Organizing relief efforts was/is paramount, but letting We the People know how he was reacting to this situation was his duty also. We had/have a right to know that the leader of the free world is reacting to an international crisis, but with his secretive silence, Dubya failed to reassure us that he was doing so. And the thing is, it didn’t even have to be him, it could have been someone in Washington, but no, nothing for days - until the criticism began.
Posted by: Adrienne at December 31, 2004 06:13 PMHow come your not yelling about the Kofi not doing anything? He’s on vacation too I don’t see him out offering anything.
Where is all this money coming from?
Geeze all you liberals do is bitch and moan about America, where are the other countries? WHY is it always America that’s handing out money?
Kirk,
“Had he been on TV seconds after learning of the devastation, American Pundit, Rocky, Stephan et. al. would have been roasting him for grandstanding instead of taking action with other leaders to start the process of sending aid.”
Just where do you get off?
I have never heard a more partisan statement on this blog.
I do expect a statement from our government seconds after learning of the disaster.
Maybe you have placed the bar so low that you can’t expect a statement of sympathy from Bush.
Gee, it could have taken, what, maybe 15 minutes of his valuable vacation time to reassure the victims that help was on the way.
It’s posible that Bush is spending the time planning a security strategy for Iraq.
He’s only 2 years late on that one.
Rocky,
Where do I get off?
Have you bothered to read and digest the vast majority of posts from this side of the blog? I do not recall seeing a single positive comment from those I listed.
I can understand your dislike for a president that you do not agree with. Lord knows that I went through 8 years of trying to figure out what the meaning of what the word “is” is. Even at that, I had to give Clinton credit for finally relenting and signing the Welfare Reform Bill.
Like I said, bash Bush all you want to for any of his policies you do not agree with. That is your right. However, to jump at the chance to use 150,000 deaths to further your political agenda is not only over the top, it is as I said disgusting.
Posted by: Kirk at December 31, 2004 07:30 PMKirk,
“Like I said, bash Bush all you want to for any of his policies you do not agree with. That is your right. However, to jump at the chance to use 150,000 deaths to further your political agenda is not only over the top, it is as I said disgusting.”
Well la di friggin da.
Listen pal, it’s my country too. I have found a lot to be disgusted with about George Bush.
If the man had done his job, this all would be moot. I have no “agenda”. I don’t like Kerry either. And you will hear no comparisons from me.
I’m not a Democrat. If any other Republican or Democrat had been in the White House, and had pulled the same thing, I would be all over them as well. This isn’t about partisanship, this is about doing the right thing, at the right time. Bush is all about himself and his buddies.
I’m not blind, nor am I deaf.
CaptainAd hominem - cut it out. It does nothing for your argument. It implies it is all you have.
Posted by Jack at December 30, 2004 04:19 PM
So, Sidney, do they only let you out on holidays or do you have access to computers other times as well.Posted by Jack at December 30, 2004 09:28 PM
Thanks for the Holiday Hypocrisy there, Jack. You want a point-by-point Argument that sums up what I was trying to get across? You’ve got one:
For decades, Republikkkans have been trying to cut all Federal support for Public Education in America. The Reagan administration actually wanted to eliminate the newly-created Department of Education, until the public outcry deterred them from attempting it. As it is, the current “edumacation” president has created the sham of “No Child Left Behind,” an unfunded mandate which is daily leaving millions of children Behind. The U.S. ranks 17th internationally (among developed nations)in terms of average Reading Skills, and 14th in terms of average Expenditure Per Pupil in publicly-funded schools. This has been the case for many years, and the two are related. Students who cannot Read properly cannot Learn properly. Full Stop. A recent post-election survey indicated that persons with Less Education tended to vote More Republican, whereas persons with More Education tended to vote More Democratic.
Is the Picture beginning to take form for you yet, Jack?
By underfunding Education while simultaneously proffering a steady flow of WonderBread and TV-Circuses, the Republikkkans are creating a docile, easily-scared, easily-swayed Electorate from themselves. A drooling Monkeymass of Good Consumers, content to get their views from the Six O’Clock Evening Lies on the Fox Channel (or the Westinghouse Channel, or the General Electric Channel, or whatever) - and the Republikkkan campaign against funding both PBS and the National Endowment for the Arts is widely known as well.
Yes, it’s the Marching Morons: the Red-State God-Fearing, Lie-Believing, NASCAR-Dads and Stepford Wives; meek and obedient, they follow their Leaders down well-trodden corridors into the Valley of Steel; scared-stupid, they march into the New Clear Dawn at the behest of a gibbering moron and his puppet-master, a man who would gladly launch Armageddon for a quick buck.
[Comment deleted for critiqing the messenger]
Posted by: captainozone at December 31, 2004 08:07 PMAdrienne,
Organizing relief efforts was/is paramount, but letting We the People know how he was reacting to this situation was his duty also. We had/have a right to know that the leader of the free world is reacting to an international crisis, but with his secretive silence, Dubya failed to reassure us that he was doing so. And the thing is, it didn’t even have to be him, it could have been someone in Washington, but no, nothing for days - until the criticism began.
Based on the timeline of the NOAA Tsunami Warning Center in Hawaii, the first signs of a tsunami were at approx. 5:30 PM Hawaian Std. Time on 12-25. That puts it at 9:30 PM in Texas and 10:30 PM in Washington.
Given that the President is likely not the first person that the Tsunami Warning Center calls, we can assume that it was sometime before the president was informed, and even longer until the extent of the damage started to be known.
Colin Powell gave a press briefing at 12:30 PM in Washington on 12-27. Roughly 36 hours following the disaster, and likely 30 hours or less from the time damage reports started filtering into the administration. Yet you still attack him even though by your own admission above “it didn’t even have to be him”. I would say a response from the Sec. of State ranks up there in the administration, it is not like it was some press secretary.
Discussions were taking place with leaders of other countries on opposite sides of the world in multiple time zones so there are going to be delays. I suggest that it was much more important for the president and his ranking subordinates to be working to coordinate relief efforts than talking to a camera letting we the people know.
Posted by: Kirk at December 31, 2004 08:07 PMKirk,
You just don’t get it, do you?
We’re talking about a drop everything, hold the presses, disaster of Biblical proportions here. No one, not one person in the administration could take the time to hold a press conference?
Something that could have been broadcast around the world?
Take your blinders off son.
Posted by: Rocky at December 31, 2004 08:24 PMI am still amazed (but find very telling) by the outrage with which the Right has responded, to yet another embarrassing episode of the Bush White House’s own making.
Bush Apologists are pleased by the Mainstream Media dutifully broadcasting verbatim the administration and Pentagon’s version of the situation in Iraq, but go ballistic when criticism originating overseas is even mentioned by what is suddenly a conspiratorial, anti-Bush Liberal media! It’s familiar to demonize the motivations of the Democrats too, but what do you expect to hear from a trashed United Nations and European allies where 70% percent of the population do not like your President?
Now, let’s compare the response time of the Bush White House.
Less than 15 hours after the Sunday appearances on 60 Minutes by Paul O’Neill and Richard Clarke, White House operatives have fanned out across the media outlets armed with identical talking points, with Communications Director Dan Bartlett taking Morning show feeds on the West Lawn.
The manufacturer contracted to outfit Humvees with body armor have the capacity to increase production, of which they alerted the Pentagon and are still awaiting an order to proceed.
On the day of the release of the Duelfer Report, White House operatives fan out across the media repeating the carefully worded spin, echoing the President’s official sound bite.
Warned previously not to rely on a single supplier of Flu vaccines to meet our nation’s demand, ‘just don’t get a shot’ is the administration’s back up plan.
Posted by: Bert M. Caradine at December 31, 2004 09:37 PMOne more thing, Kirk.
At 6:58pm cst (that’s Texas time) 12/25/04 the National Earthquake Center, part of the Dept. of the Interior (thats the U.S. Government), recorded an earthquake of magnitude 9.0 on the Richter scale, off the island of Sumatra.
This was the largest recorded earthquake on the planet in 40 years.
Now I would like to think that an quake that size would have gotten someone’s attention, no matter how busy they were.
The Anchorage, Alaska earthquake in 1964 measured 9.2 and did over $300 million dollars in damage. The ground under Anchorage liquified.
By comparison, last years 6.6 magnitude quake in Iran was barely a blip, and we were there in a heartbeat.
I hope that this helps you put your time line into perspective.
Posted by: Rocky at December 31, 2004 09:44 PMKirk, as I mentioned in the article, CNN International had the graphics and theme music already produced twelve hours after the event. That would be morning of the same day it happened in Texas.
There’s no reason President Bush couldn’t have stopped clearing brush and riding his mountain bike long enough to say something.
BTW, here’s a clipping from Crawford on the 27th,
“He’s been monitoring it very closely,” White House spokesman Trent Duffy told reporters at a briefing here. “He’s seen some of the images on television.”…Bush also spent time clearing brush at his ranch and thinking about what he’ll say in his inaugural speech and upcoming State of the Union address.
“Now is a time for him to, sort of, think about how he wants to address the American people,” Duffy said, adding that there were no speechwriters at the ranch. “I think the best way to characterize it is there are some initial drafts.”
More than 24 hours later, President Bush is well aware of the crisis, but there’s no hint of feverish aid coalition building, just a few condolence letters (which I bet he, at least, personally signed) - and a whole bunch of clearing brush, bicycling, and thinking about his $40 million inauguration party.
Ap,
A man has to have his priorities straight.
Happy New Year pal!
You don’t need all the facts to make a public statement of sympathy. If Bush had made a statement on Sunday, however banal, instead of three days later, the world, and indeed the American press would have had nothing to criticize.
I do expect a statement from our government seconds after learning of the disaster. Maybe you have placed the bar so low that you can’t expect a statement of sympathy from Bush.
Rocky, try checking this out for a little clarification.
http://usinfo.state.gov/sa/south_asia/tsunamis/tsunamis_archive.html
The release dated 12-26 titled U.S. Ready To Help Nations Affected by Bay of Bengal Earthquake You will see that the White House did make a statement on 12-26 the day following the disaster. The statement expresses the Presidents condolences, and offers all appropriate assistance to the effected countries.
At the same site you will see a release dated 12-28 titled U.S. Relief Teams, Aid Heading to South and Southeast Asia This release will show that President Bush had been briefed earlier in the day on the situation in Asia and had sent letters of condolence to the leaders of Bangladesh, Thailand, Sri Lanka, Indonesia, India, Maldives and Malaysia. In addition a 21-member disaster assistance response team (DART) is being dispatched to the region to help with sanitation, health and other relief supply efforts, as well as to assess where relief aid is most needed.
This link Floating Warehouses of Supplies, Equipment Head to Asia discusses how on 12-28 a US Navy Carrier Group, an Expeditionary Group and 8 Warehouse ships loaded with supplies and equipment were already sailing to the area. In addition US Military aircraft were already joining in the search and rescue mission as verified by this news report Navy providing some help to countries hit by tidal wave — may provide more
So, lets see if we can put this into perspective. Within a matter of hours the White House releases a statement offering Bush’s condolences and US aid. That same day Bush has already dispatched US Navy aircraft to assist in search and rescue. By the next day Bush has 15 to 20 US Navy or Government leased commercial ships sailing to the region with food, water, medical supplies and construction equipment. Not to mention the aircraft from the USS Abraham Lincoln that will be desperately needed in the distribution of these supplies. At the same time Bush is conferring with the leaders of Britain, Australia, Japan, Canada and India to coordinate relief efforts.
Now I can see your point. He had more than ample time in his schedule to make a TV appearance. He should definitely taken time away from these piddling tasks to go on TV.
Sidney,
The money you (American) spent on gift is for your own indulgence! When you spend $100 on sexy underpant in order to get laid, you (American) only willing to give out 10 cents for charity!
Maybe this is your problem. I think you might be on to something here. You should try it and you might not hate Americans quite so much.
Posted by: MAW at January 1, 2005 04:26 AMCaptain
For decades, Republikkkans have been trying to cut all Federal support for Public Education in America.
Does school vouchers have a part in this educational issue? Maybe a little competition would light the old spark in the Public Education system. But oh, of course. There’s that teacher’s union thing. I keep forgetting.
Posted by: MAW at January 1, 2005 04:42 AM
Kirk,
Well said! Thank you for the most comprehensive and intelligent post I have seen on this topic yet.
The Captain may not agree however.
Posted by: MAW at January 1, 2005 04:54 AM
Stephen,
You guys are paying the price for not getting a more qualified candidate when you had the chance.
I think you have this backwards. It was you guys that couldn’t get a qualified candidate to run against him? Oh that’s right. There isn’t one!
I’ll tell you this: a great deal of the resentment about Bush is his inability to acknowledge any mistake whatsoever, his tendency and the tendency of his administration as a whole to offer excuses, spin, keep things secret, and attack critics and fact-finders rather than face up to the situation at hand and react to it competently. At least Clinton could show some humility in the face of his personal and political mistakes, rather than just bluster and hissy-fit his way through it.
Gee whiz, Stephen. And exactly where is this parallel universe you have been living in? Certainly not what I have been observing. Must be the anger talking. Or perhaps a hissy-fit maybe!
Posted by: MAW at January 1, 2005 05:00 AM
Adrienne,
know what you mean, AP, I couldn’t believe that he didn’t come out immediately and make a statement.
Well we know one thing for certain. He wasn?t in the Oval Office talking to a head of state while smoking a cigar and getting his jollies.
You’re absolutely right. But no, this dumbass just has to keep wiping his feet on our good name.
Which dumbass are you referring to? What good name? You guys keep joining in with those countries who treat trashing our good name as a national sport.
Keep up the good work. The blame America first crowd is alive and well and can’t wait for a tragedy such as this to bash a President. On the backs of people suffering yet. Absolutely astounding.
According to a poll, most Americans believe the United States spends 24 percent of its budget on aid to poor countries; it actually spends well under a quarter of 1 percent. For development aid, America gave $16.2 billion in 2003; the European Union gave $37.1 billion. In 2002, those numbers were $13.2 billion for America, and $29.9 billion for Europe.
Making things worse, the United States often pledges more money than it actually delivers. Victims of the earthquake in Bam, Iran, a year ago are still living in tents because aid, including ours, has not materialized in the amounts pledged. And back in 2002, Bush announced his Millennium Challenge account to give African countries development assistance of up to $5 billion a year, but the account has yet to disperse a single dollar.
Posted by: acid at January 1, 2005 05:10 AMacid
I can see the New York Times, “Are We Stingy” 12/30 is on your reading list. No bias there!
Posted by: MAW at January 1, 2005 05:37 AMEditor:
[Comment deleted for critiqing the messenger]
I see. So, “Jack’s” insinuations (over two posts) that Sidney is an Insane, Undermedicated, Racist are A-Okay with the WatchBlog Büro der Politischen Korrektheit - but my assertion that he’s Evil for being the sort of Republikkkan mouthpiece that makes them is not? I notice that his Sly, Underhanded Insinuations go un-deleted, whereas my Direct, Bold Statement is nuked. Wellwellwell… Censorship is Alive and Well at WatchBlog. (Of course, some or all of this will likely be Deleted, so Read It While You Can, Watchbloggers!) Oh, and: you might want to learn how to spell “critiquing” before you seek to remove the mote from my eye, donchaknow? ;~}
MAW: How are things in Stepford? How’re Nancy and Laura, and Anita and Phyllis and Bay? Is that evil, non-cookie-baking Hillary still stalking you, there in your Gated Community, trying to Raise Your Children up as Socialised Free-Thinking Progressives rather than as the Privileged Xenophobic Konsumer-Klones you so so devoutly desire them to be?
Hey, KCTIM: does the “KC” stand for “Kansas City?” I know that Creationism has been taught in Kansas since 1999, when the State Board of Education voted to alter the guidelines for state science tests, eliminating questions that pertained to Evolution, Natural Selection, and the Big Bang Theory. You’re a right good produkt of the Republikkkan Final Solution for Education, aren’t you?
Hey, Editor, Again: (If, somehow, the Spirit of Adolph Eichmann could rise from the grave, and tap its bony fingers on some darkened keyboard in Hades to post its Hate and Lies in here, would you delete any Criticism Of The Messenger? I’ll bet you would, wouldn’t you? *chuck’s Editor’s rosy cheek*)
Acid
The Millennium challenge account requires cooperation between the U.S. and other governments. It is different and better than routine foreign aid for that reason, but took time to set up properly. The aid should begin to flow this year.
The U.S. always disperses the aid it promises. The OMB keeps records that you can study.
I have no idea what you are talking about re BAM. The U.S. promised and delivered around $6 million. You can complain that it was not enough, but not that we didn’t do it.
Once more I need to point out an organizational and philosophical difference between the U.S. and most other countries. The U.S. depends on private charity much more than others. People like the French often say that this is a failure of government. Many Americans see the need for government as the failure of the people. When all the numbers (private and public) are counted the American NATION gives much more in dollars and per capita than almost any other.
References
http://www.usaid.gov/iran/
http://usinfo.state.gov/eur/Archive/2004/Dec/07-973541.html
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/asia/july-dec04/aid_12-29.html
Captain,
Stepford wife? Hardly.
You did get the female part correct though. Nothing else in your descriptive and entertaining post comes even close to describing me.
I must admit I did get a good laugh.
Posted by: MAW at January 1, 2005 12:17 PMMAW-
That’s an editorial. they’re allowed to editorialize there.
Stephen,
My post was an editorial as well. But thanks for the heads up.
Posted by: MAW at January 1, 2005 01:34 PMRocky,
I have found a lot to be disgusted with about George Bush. If the man had done his job, this all would be moot.
Based on the research I did for you above, this is now moot.
Posted by: Kirk at January 1, 2005 03:19 PMKirk,
This link Floating Warehouses of Supplies, Equipment Head to Asia discusses how on 12-28 a US Navy Carrier Group, an Expeditionary Group and 8 Warehouse ships loaded with supplies and equipment were already sailing to the area. In addition US Military aircraft were already joining in the search and rescue mission as verified by this news report Navy providing some help to countries hit by tidal wave — may provide more
Could you supply these links again? That ‘href’ is a bit tricky.
Posted by: MAW at January 1, 2005 03:45 PMKirk,
“Based on the research I did for you above, this is now moot.”
Stick it in your ear.
Posted by: Rocky at January 1, 2005 06:36 PMEverytime I check in on this post I come to the same conclusion,
IT MUST BE A SLOW DAY IN THE COMPLAINT DEPARTMENT!
It reaffirms that President Bush is doing a fantastic job if this is a credible debate topic.
Good grief the whining on this blog is louder than the new years celebration.
brad
Posted by: brad at January 1, 2005 07:54 PMbrad-
Pause for a moment.
This is the fifth most powerful Earthquake on record. Of those five, two were too remote to cause much significant damage That leaves The Good Friday Earthquake of 1964, which liquified the ground under Anchorage, Alaska, and the most powerful of them all, the 9.5 that hit Chile in 1960. It is the deadliest Earthquake since Tangshan China was rocked in 1976.
Does that put it into perspective?
It’s been nearly thirty years since a quake killed so many. It’s been forty years since a quake anywhere near as strong has made itself felt. And Bush’s response is to stay home and clear brush? If a 9.0 quake hit anywhere in the world and I was president, my vacation would be over. If he’s under the impression, as the leader of the free world that he gets to rest on his laurels when something of this magnitude(literally!) occurs, he doesn’t deserve to be president. He should be making us the heroes of this story, and instead, the Japanese are raising more money.
As far as I can see, Bush doesn’t act, he says he will take action, and then a bunch of Republicans make apologies for why he hasn’t done enough.
Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at January 1, 2005 10:02 PMMAW - “A Soft Answer turneth away Wrath.” ;~} Perhaps there is hope for you yet: stop watching Fox (if you do); start Questioning Authority (if you don’t); and remember that Jesus was a Progressive Socialist who was Lawfully Executed under Capital Punishment by the Conservatives of his day. If you do these things, perhaps the veil of Lies can be lifted from you, as it was from Arianna Huffington.
All - Let’s face it: the principle difference between Progressives and Conservatives has been, is now, and always will be that Progressives place more value on the Quality of Human Life, whereas “Conservatives” (Regressives) place more value on the acquisition and maintenance of Wealth and Power. “Evil” may be defined as the use, misuse, or abuse of another Being’s life, liberty, or holdings without regard for that being’s concerns in the matter. Conservatism is Evil, plain and simple. It encompasses the tenets of Fascism and Totalitarianism. (And no, before you Red Staters try the Old False Argument: neither the U.S.S.R. nor Red China were/are Liberal States: they were/are not Socialist States, and they were/are not even Communist States, according to the stated ideals of Communism. They were and are, in fact, Fascist States, ruled by totalitarian oligarchs.) Now, granted, we Social Progressives have made mistakes over time, trying to perfect better forms of governance: in Trusting Human Nature, we wide-eyed naifs thought Communism could actually work, back at the turn of the 20th Century. Quite obviously, it cannot. Human nature is not sublime enough to be trustworthy: the best we can hope for (based upon the current National Success Stories), is Socialised Democracy - which is just fine by me.
But again: Conservatism is Evil: it inevitably leads to Social Regression, Civil Oppression, and utter Corruption in terms of both Economics and the use of delegated State Power. We have over 5,000 years of History to back up this claim. When will we stop Forgetting The Lessons?
Captain
Suggest you reread Marx, Lenin, Engles, Hitler, Pol Pot etc. Look for references that praise free markets, business free of state control, private property that the state cannot commandeer, the importance of letting people practice religion or any other of the main planks of conservative thought in the U.S. If you find any, please let us all know. These systems of government and thought were variations of collectivism. American free market ideas were always unwelcome in these circles. American progressive went to Stalin’s Russia and came back saying, “we have seen the future and it works.”
You can’t compare the reality of free markets with the fantasy of “progressivism” whatever you choose to make that today. Believers in free market know that abuses by John D. Rockefeller or JP Morgan resulted from the excesses of a free market. Believers in collectivism or progressivism must similarly recognize that fascism and communism result from the excess of their philosophy. We are all wise to avoid the extremes.
MAW,
Could you supply these links again? That ‘href’ is a bit tricky.
Here you go. Sorry this was the first time I tried to post links using the formatting.
Floating Warehouses of Supplies, Equipment Head to Asia
Navy providing some help to countries hit by tidal wave — may provide more
http://www.kesq.com/Global/story.asp?S=2736548
Stephen,
I don’t dispute the severity of the disaster. I do dispute the topic of the blog, which is about a timing of vocal response by our president.
Clearly there is aid going to the disaster. ($350,000,000 by the U.S. government, which I doubt recognizes the entirety of the total u.s. response.
NOw whether our president is theatrical or not, or whether he said anything in a set number of hours or what he says is meaningless is well, ludicrist.
bnorth
Posted by: brad at January 1, 2005 11:52 PMKirk,
thanks for the info. I mispoke on one thing, that it took 19hrs to make a statement by an underling.
I’ll give you that. I will however never give up in my opposition to Bush. I will repeat that I am not a Democrat. I have voted Republican in the past. I have no agenda except my distaste for G.W.. I recognize that you do have an agenda. I suppose you’re welcome to it.
I do have a question though.
At the end of the day, how do you get that bitter taste out of your mouth?
Posted by: Rocky at January 2, 2005 12:19 AMRocky, try checking this out for a little clarification.“>http://usinfo.state.gov/sa/south_asia/tsunamis/tsunamis_archive.html
First of all, that’s a statement by the DEPUTY press secretary, not President Bush.
Second, it must have gone out by secret courrier, because that’s the first I’ve heard of it.
President Bush really missed a chance to regain some of the international goodwill he’s lost over the last four years. The loss of “soft power” Bush is incurring makes America weaker in the world.
United States influence in SE Asia has been drastically diminished over the last four years, and is being - or has been - eclipsed by China. The preception that Bush had to be shamed into offering substantial aid - or even a public statement - doesn’t help.
As Bush bumps the aid total by a factor of ten, it appears we’re getting an interesting glimpse into the administration’s internal battle between conservative isolationists, and those who believe we should remain engaged in the world as a dominant player.
And after four years, it’s really about time Bush got off the fence and decided which side he’s on. Given the events of the last four years, a coherent foreign policy is long past due.
Captain,
Aw Gee. You mean there is hope for me after all?
I feel so much better now that I have a role model to pattern myself after. Of course! My idol, Arianna.
How could I not have seen that! A whiney complaining confused redhead socialist that pays little to no income taxes while at the same time complains about corporate fat cats.
Ooops, sorry. I’m a brunette. Won’t work.
And that socialist thing. A system that deprives people of basic human rights. Can’t wait to get on that bandwagon.
AP,
President Bush really missed a chance to regain some of the international goodwill he’s lost over the last four years. The loss of “soft power” Bush is incurring makes America weaker in the world.International goodwill! Surely you jest. All this goodwill you speak of is nothing but a mere illusion. A deep seated hatred for the US that has been bubbling under the surface for years, perhaps centuries. Sometimes covertly, but nonetheless, always present. Especially when we dare to defend ourselves and go on the offensive. It’s OK to go on the offensive only, and I mean only, when we are defending others, not ourselves. Strange phenomenon! When have the French ever been appreciative of America? Or those Germans who relish in Anti-Americanism. Yes, they are all our buddies when they want our goodwill, but seem never to be around when we need them. Unless of course, we are subservient to them.
As for the timing of Bush’s response, I heard the White House Press release almost immediately after reports of this disaster. It’s odd that you missed it however. But if you were expecting grandstanding ala Clinton, Bush is definitely not the man for those theatrics.
Maw,
Have you actually read anything in this thread?
If you heard the press release it must have been for your ears only. It actually took place 19 hours after the event took place. The reports of the earthquake came out almost imedeately after the event.
Why is it grandstanding for a former American President to expres sympathy?
American Pundit,
I think that maybe Bert has an explanation for you.
Second, it must have gone out by secret courrier, because that’s the first I’ve heard of it.
but go ballistic when criticism originating overseas is even mentioned by what is suddenly a conspiratorial, anti-Bush Liberal media!
I realize that the statement above by Bert was meant to be a jab at the administration but he may well be on to something there.
President Bush really missed a chance to regain some of the international goodwill he’s lost over the last four years. The loss of “soft power” Bush is incurring makes America weaker in the world.
A news conference of statement on TV by the president would have done nothing to “regain’ international goodwill. Bush communicated directly with and sent his condolences to the leaders of the effected countries, He also worked with several countries to coordinate relief efforts and immediately dispatched large contingents of US Navy ships, aircraft, supplies and equipment to the region.
If those actions are not enough to as you put it “regain” goodwill, then a 15 minute TV appearance would have done bunk.
Rocky,
I will however never give up in my opposition to Bush. I will repeat that I am not a Democrat. I have voted Republican in the past. I have no agenda except my distaste for G.W.. I recognize that you do have an agenda. I suppose you’re welcome to it.
I would never ask you to give up on your opposition to President Bush if you feel that strongly aobut it however misguided I may think you are. My agenda? I guess if wanting to have a president who finally stands up to the terrorists instead of lobbing a few cruise missles, or supporting a president who recognizes that the taxes I pay are my money and not the federal governments, or having a president who does what he believes is right instead of governing by polls, is having an agenda then I guess I do.
I do have a question though.
At the end of the day, how do you get that bitter taste out of your mouth?
There is no bitter taste in my mouth. You see I am not the oportunistic one who jumped on the deaths of thousands as an opening to attack a president I loath.
Posted by: Kirk at January 2, 2005 01:49 AMKirk,
“You see I am not the oportunistic one who jumped on the deaths of thousands as an opening to attack a president I loath.”
What you don’t understand is that I have always lothed Bush.
Opportunistic?
Bush just gives me so many opportunites to lothe him.
Oh BTW Kirk,
A “White House spokesman”, is not the face of America to the rest of the world.
George W. Bush is.
A news conference of statement on TV by the president would have done nothing to “regain’ international goodwill.
Says you.
Seriously, between 2002 and now, worldwide public opinion of the US has fallen drastically - a direct result of President Bush’s inept diplomacy and incoherent foreign policy.
Shroeder’s reelection on anti-Bush rhetoric only worked because the German public doesn’t like Bush. Before Bush was president, Schroeder was staunchly pro-American and our biggest ally in Europe.
If you don’t think international goodwill is important, then you must also believe it’s ok for other countries stop breaking up al Qaeda cells and to release the hundreds of terrorists they’re holding. Why do you hate America? Do you want us to be attacked?
They don’t have to help us. They’re doing it because they share our values that find terrorist actions abhorrent. They help protect you because they admire, and desire to aid America. That admiration is fading under President Bush.
Sending a few private letters doesn’t build goodwill among the public of any country. But if our president doesn’t grasp diplomacy 101, I don’t expect his running dogs to grasp it either.
AP
You must be thinking of Helmut Kohl and the brief, but intense, gratitude the Germans felt after the U.S. was the only county to actively . Schroeder was never staunchly pro-American and no matter his personal feelings, he led a leftist party that included people like Joschka Fischer, who was famously caught on film bashing in the head of a police officer during leftist riots in the 1960s. And you may recall that a member of the German government compared Bush to Hitler soon after 9/11 and before Iraq.
This problem has been brewing for years, maybe decades among left-leaning Germans. The problem was kept in check by the reality of the Soviet Union. Lefties happily paraded in the streets against the U.S., but once they actually got in power, they realized that their deeds should not match their rhetoric. Talk left; live right was the slogan.
Leaders of important countries don’t do things they consider against their interested because they are mad at a particular leader. The Germans and the French skillfully played an American card in an attempt to discipline others in the EU and shoot a warning shot across the bow of the new members to tell them who was in charge. It didn’t completely work and we will see what happens in the long run.
It is not that we don’t have an image problem, but it is facile and dangerous to attribute all or even most of it to the personality of George W. Bush.
America’s Euro problem goes back more than 200 years. If you read Nazi propaganda about American and Americanism, you find that a lot of the same topics are stressed. You can go back farther. Euro attitudes toward the U.S. shift wildly, but the intellectuals never seem to like us. Anti-Americanism is something that comes and goes – a problem to be managed, never solved.
My personal favorite is Clemenceau, the French leader from World War I, who said that America had gone from barbarism to decadence without a stop over in civilization. It is nasty, but clever.
American Pundit,
Please point out to me where I ever said that international goodwill is not important! I believe what I said is that a soundbite on TV would not win the US goodwill but the massive amounts of money, equipment, manpower and expertise the US expends to rescue, heal and rebuild the region definitely will.
Other countries are not breaking up Al Qaeda cells because of their admiration for America! They are doing so because they realize that to allow such groups to fester within their borders will only lead to violence for their own peoples.
As for the Germans and French, I think our cutting off their cash cow Food for Oil scam may have much to do with both their opposition to ridding Iraq and the world of the murderous thug dictator as well as their current opinions of us.
As for your questions concerning my hating America that is an asinine question! I am not the one who is bashing the president in an online forum. You can also bet that the likelyhood of us being attacked has been drastically reduced now that there is a president in office witht he backbone to punish those who are foolish enough to attack US interests.
Unfortunately the past two presidents were not. The Kobar Towers, the first World Trade Center attack, the African Embassy attacks and USS Cole went largly unpunished short of lobbing a couple of cruise missles and some chest thumping. This only served to embolden the terrorosts and gave them the false impression that this president would follow in the steps of those before him. Thank God, he is a man who does what is right and not what is politically correct.
Posted by: Kirk at January 2, 2005 05:19 PMKirk,
You didn’t mention the Marine barracks in Lebonon.
Oh, sorry I forgot, Reagan has already achieved Sainthood.
You know that old Deodorant commercial? You never get a second chance to make a first impression. Bush should understand that. Bush is our head of state, representing America to all the world. Now, you can send communications to all the relevant ambassadors, but that isn’t going to tell the average citizen in the countries hit by this what the president thinks. How the president responds will send that message. If Bush was a sort of shrinking violet who never did much press, it’d be one thing, but Bush has been all over the place selling his agendas.
More Americans would consider Bush a leader if he didn’t simply spend his time selling and realizing the Republican party agenda. His insistence on checking off the items on the party platform have contributed to his image as a slave of the pundits and the special interests. The man doesn’t seem to make original or creative decisions.
Leadership isn’t about pushing agendas, it’s about awareness of the situation combined with a willingness to try the things necessary to succeed, and pay the price for that if necessary.
Bush, as soon as he knew the extent of the disaster should have treated the incident as the important thing it was, and show his sympathies for the people involved. Instead he cut brush. It’s time the guy realizes he’s a president, not a tree surgeon.
Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at January 2, 2005 09:16 PMThat’s right, KKKonservatives: just keep ignoring the Facts and repeating the Talking Points and everything will be Just Fine by and by. Ignore the Fact that Spencerian economics has jeopardised the economy of this nation *Three Times* - and that it took a Democratic administration to fix it, all three times. Instead, keep repeating the Talking Points about “economic growth” (as the Dollar plummets worldwide), “low unemployment” (regardless that the statistic you use does not include those who have already run out of benefits), and “stability” (as both our Deficits and our Debt skyrocket to new all-time highs).
Just keep your blinkered heads in the sand and listen to the soothing words of Rush (“Purple Haze”) Limbaugh and Bill (“The Gambler”) Bennett as they fill you with a sense of Morality and Virtuous Righteousness.
You oppressive evil hypocritical vile benighted opportunistic mercenary earth-destroying anti-human scum.
One day, long ago, we defeated you Conservatives on the issue of retaining our long-cherished practice of Cannibalism; then - many generations later - we defeated you on the Faith-Based issue requiring Human Sacrifices to your Gods; next, we defeated you on the issue of Slavery as a means to power your Economy. And next (may God send the day soon!), we will defeat you on the issues of Militarism, Greed, Injustice, and Inequity. Because we are Progressives; because Progress, like Evolution, cannot be denied. We may suffer yet another Dark Age before we triumph, but eventually, we will triumph: if we can keep you from destroying all life on earth, or the earth itself, we will one day remember you as naught more than a Bad Smell, a stain on the fabric of Human History. We will tell terror tales to our young about the days when people actually oppressed and abused other people for Profit - just as we tell terror tales now about Cannibalism and Human Sacrifice. Your leaders will join their names to the litany which contains the names of Gaius, Nero, Attila, Hitler, Stalin, McCarthy, and Nixon. You will be an Object Lesson, and a quaint reminder of what Social Progress actually is.
Keep ignoring the Facts, and loudly shouting those Talking Points: your days in our future are numbered, and time will toll the death knell of your evil.
Posted by: captainozone at January 2, 2005 09:33 PMCaptainOzone, you are directing some of your comments directly at demeaning the attributes of fellow WB visitors and writers. I must ask that you conform your comments to Critiquing the Message, Not the Messengers on this site either by name or group in a demeaning fashion.
Posted by: WatchBlog Manager at January 2, 2005 10:08 PMCaptain
I am curious about your economics based on Herbert Spencer. I thought that the social Darwinism interpretations of U.S. history among some academics went out in the 1970s. Of course, I don’t buy the logic, but I wonder which three times you think Democratic administrations rescued us from it and how.
Another question, when you mention Gaius, you mean Caligula, right? Despite the drama of his short reign, I wonder how he rates in that group you put together. I figure Nero got in because he has been portrayed in a lot of movies, but neither of these guys is very important except in the tragic personal nasty sense. If you want a Roman that fits your group, go with Lucius Cornelius Sulla. or Diocletian
Several people made comments in this thread how the U.S., by its stingy and slow response, failed in its PR with the Muslim world. Once again, compared to what.
The Muslim world has been exceedingly stingy. According to Reuters, the Saudis are giving 10 million, which is more than most of the others are putting up and less than what the Portuguese are giving. With the recent high oil prices, you might expect more.
Countries in the U.S. led coalition are contributing most resources and virtually all of the logistics to get the aid where it needs to go.
If half the energy of the Arab street that goes into denouncing these great Satans went in to helping them help victims, everyone would be better off.
captian
“Hey, KCTIM: does the “KC” stand for “Kansas City?” I know that Creationism has been taught in Kansas since 1999, when the State Board of Education voted to alter the guidelines for state science tests, eliminating questions that pertained to Evolution, Natural Selection, and the Big Bang Theory. You’re a right good produkt of the Republikkkan Final Solution for Education, aren’t you?”
- Actually, KC stands for Kansas City, Missouri.
However, I would be proud to be a Kansan.
By 1999, I had already been out of school for about 14 years and I grew up