Democrats & Liberals: Archives

I don’t understand your complaint.

As a kid, I remember firemen telling my class that my family should have a plan for what to do in a fire. But I suspect that getting burned in a fire usually has more to do with bad luck than lack of a plan. Should we just not bring up fire preparation because some might find is “scary?”

I remember doing earthquake drill although we didn’t live in and earthquake zone.

I learned CPR, but I’ve never had to use it.

Terrrorism is just one more thing to prepare for. Nobody should let it occupy their every thought, but it’s always better to prepare than not.

Also, I’m quite sure that if we had another terrorist attack on American soil and there was any indication that people didn’t know how to respond, the left would put up an instant chorus about “how Bush failed to educate the public on terrorism awareness.” Such is the luxury, I guess, of living in the political peanut gallery.

the left would put up an instant chorus about “how Bush failed to educate the public on terrorism awareness.”

I suspect we’d be more ticked off about the stonewalling, eviscerating, and underfunding of homeland security measures.

Good article, Joe. But I think this is probably the most intelligent thing the DHS has done so far to communicate with the public about terrorism. It’s a lot more helpful than telling us to go buy plastic & duct tape.

Maybe they’ll get rid of the idiotic public color code, too.

According to British security experts,

“The problem (with the American approach) is that it creates public anxiety. If the goal of terrorists is to spread fear and unease then to some extent they [our own government! - AP] have done that job for them without anybody carrying out an attack.”

They say, “such public warnings, often with few details, do little to make countries safer,” and “the public can do little with warnings unless it is told specifically how to respond.”

Three years later, the DHS is finally giving Americans some specific information: make a plan. It’s also relavent for natural disasters.

I can’t see any difference between being prepared for some type of terrorist attack and being prepared for the nukes from Russia in the 50s.

Preparedness isn’t just having a hole to jump in to or having bottled water and canned/dried foods in storage, all of which aren’t bad things, but also knowing that some bad things can happen and having a plan, whether it is to hole up in an air filtered bunker or just a meeting place for family members and an evacuation route in case of emergency.

I’ve already bought all the duct tape and plastic sheeting I could find.

AP:
“I suspect we’d be more ticked off about the stonewalling, eviscerating, and underfunding of homeland security measures.”

Exactly.

“Maybe they’ll get rid of the idiotic public color code, too.”

They won’t. It was a cheap trick and a convienient lie that came in far too handy after the Democratic Convention. Also since about half of the population can be lead like sheep when their scared out of their minds, it may be useful in the future when they decide to whack another chunk off of our Constitutional rights.

Ynot:
“Preparedness isn’t just having a hole to jump in to or having bottled water and canned/dried foods in storage, all of which aren’t bad things, but also knowing that some bad things can happen and having a plan”

If the conservatives really felt this way, they’d be worrying more about global warming and the polluting of our environment by large corporations.

I guess not too many of you fear chemical attacks. If you live in Bumf**k, USA (like myself), I’d understand. But the purpose of duct tapes and plastic is to protect cities and suburbs from possible gas attacks. Makes sense to secure you homes by not allowing poisonous gases into your home. Don’t knock it just because you don’t understand. Hell, I don’t understand why someone would be taking earthquake drills where there are no earthquakes, but that doesn’t mean those drill will NEVER come in handy. You could move to an earthquake zone

As for the IDIOTIC color code alert…I’d like one person to name the stages on this alert without looking it up. Anyone? And no Amber is not one of them. The purpose of this system is for government and well as public agencies to easily identify the current significant risk status of terrorists attacks. It helps them to enforce and follow proper procedures during these color coded times. And why complicate things by using the Greek letter codes like Alpha 4 Stage or the more obvious “DANGEROUS TIMES” wording that might cause more panic than precaution. This was well thought out and instigated so as to insure a more efficient manner of communicating proper prodedures using simple, yet effective, means.

If there is a terrorist attack, I doubt my survival will depend on having planned an escape route and having duct tape and water in my basement. It will be either because the attack did not affect my area, or because I am lucky.

Well, for your sake, you better hope LUCK is on your side. I prefer preparedness in case of most emergency situations. I certainly would NOT take the apathetic approach some BRITISH security experts promote, in order to NOT feel anxiety. Anxiety keeps us on our toes as does alertness. Look at Pearl Habor as well as 9/11… We thought this could not happen and did not prepare for it. I think the anxiety these British EXPERTS refer to occurred right after the attacks.

Yo, Big Al, what Oklahoma City?
All of this BS is just to add to the pucker factor in all American lives.
As an aside, “Duck and Cover” wouldn’t have saved even one life, and even if it did, that life wouldn’t have been very long given the high levels of radiation.

Yo, Big Al, what Oklahoma City?

By Duck and Cover if you mean that in case of a nuclear attack while in school, duck under your desks, I understand your reasoning. This was certainly the mentality during the 50’s when very little was understood about radiation.

What I believe this administration wants to underline is that not all terrorists attacks would result in a use of a ‘dirty bomb’, but perhaps detonation of chemical weapons in large populated cities. There is also the fear of contaminating our water and food supply. Make no mistake, every precaution must be adhered to while insuring the quality of life for our citizens.

Al,
by sealing up your home or even a room in your house you would die of suffocation long before you would be exposed to biologicals, unless they were dropped directly into your neighborhood.

The Dept. of Homeland Security is a joke. It is a grossly underfunded agency that even Bush didn’t want.

Your government is trying to keep you so scared that you don’t see their ineptitude in dealing with the “War on Terror”. Remember Bush isn’t worried about OBL any more.

The reference to Oklahoma City. I think that we should be more afraid of internal terrorism by our own citizens.

Joe —

I think perhaps the reason the campaign annoys you, as it does me, is that the whole point of it is unfocused concern. We’re just supposed to be in a state of worry all the time, never knowing where the threat could come from. I mean, come on — putting plastic over your windows is going to protect you from a gas attack?

I’m not a big Michael Moore fan but he did make a good point in Bowling for Columbine: We live in a culture of fear, which is bolstered daily by the media. Children aren’t allowed to play outside by themselves because they might be abducted by a psycho, even though the rate of kidnappings continues to drop. Hospitals X-ray candy for razor blades even though the “apple with a razor blade” is a complete urban legend and never happened.

For Pete’s sake, I actually saw a bit on the news where we were admonished to watch out for the little plastic tags used to close bread bags because you might swallow them. While the newscaster was delivering this ominous message, a guy was shown making and eating a sandwich, blithely unaware that he could at any moment EAT A PIECE OF PLASTIC.

Let’s face it, a fearful population is tractable, more willing to give up its rights in return for perceived safety.

I think perhaps the reason the campaign annoys you, as it does me, is that the whole point of it is unfocused concern. We’re just supposed to be in a state of worry all the time, never knowing where the threat could come from. I mean, come on — putting plastic over your windows is going to protect you from a gas attack?

Yes.

And this is VERY funny! Thanks!

For Pete’s sake, I actually saw a bit on the news where we were admonished to watch out for the little plastic tags used to close bread bags because you might swallow them. While the newscaster was delivering this ominous message, a guy was shown making and eating a sandwich, blithely unaware that he could at any moment EAT A PIECE OF PLASTIC.

Joe, it just goes to show how, as a group, Americans are morons.

I don’t think Americans are generally morons. I think the government and media sees us that way though.

Alejo, I think that separately, Americans are very bright people. Put together in a group though, I begin to wonder.

Alejo, hoe else would you explain the run on duct tape and plastic sheeting?

People have a tendency to do what the government tells them, especially when they’re frightened. My own father, whom I consider to be an intelligent man, has argued that laws should be obeyed regardless of whether they make sense or not, because his belief in the government — even a Bush government — is that strong.

So, Alejo, that brings us back around to the fear factor perpetrated on us by our own government. The Dept. of Homeland security gives us some lame advise and expects the populace rush right out and adhere to the guidelines laid out.
What a farce!
Should we now be ever aware of our middle eastern neighbors? Oh and BTW how do you tell where anyone middle eastern looking is from? After Sept. 11 there were murders commited on Seiks (sp)
in my community.
This is just an attempt by our government to raise the sphincter factor, to keep us on edge.

Rocky —

Exactly. Keep us scared, keep us guessing, keep us from questioning the Patriot Act or its sequels. Even my own sister has told me she values safety above freedom and wouldn’t protest house-to-house searches because she has nothing to hide. Scary sh*t.

Alejo, agreed.

As I have posted before.
Telling me that. “If I have nothing to hide, I have nothing to fear” is tyrany of the highest magnitute.
The “Brown Shirts” are just around the corner.

Al, by sealing up your home or even a room in your house you would die of suffocation long before you would be exposed to biologicals, unless they were dropped directly into your neighborhood.

I guess if you live in a one room bedroom apartment that could be the case. But think about this…the prevailing winds would eventually take care of most effects of the gases eventually. But if you really are worried about suffocating, buy a few potted plants to recycle to the carbon monoxide in your “small environment”.

The Dept. of Homeland Security is a joke. It is a grossly underfunded agency that even Bush didn’t want.

Your government is trying to keep you so scared that you don’t see their ineptitude in dealing with the “War on Terror”. Remember Bush isn’t worried about OBL any more.

I suppose if we were to start shelling more funds into homeland security somebody would start crying foul and how it’s eating away at their Social Security. And I don’t remember Bush saying he wasn’t worried about him anymore. I think the context of his comments was that his network has been crippled by a large percentage and that it is a matter of time until he gets caught. I for one am optimistic about that. And I find your assessment of how the administration is handling the war on terror biased as the least. With the Quada network crippled and a known terrorist funder/genocide maniac out of power this admninistration has gone way beyond any other in securing terrorist threats. A good deal had been going on before Bush came into office and the terrorists had gotten very confident into thinking they could succeed with many of their actions.

The reference to Oklahoma City. I think that we should be more afraid of internal terrorism by our own citizens. Posted by: Rocky at November 24, 2004 01:29 PM

Well, now you’re back to being afraid. Please make up your mind you scares you most. I don’t think being afraid is the solution to any problem. It’s being prepared, alert, cautious, and using common sense. Things are going to continue to happen and the bad people are going to succeed sometimes. But if we continue to have our wits about us and report suspicious activity as well as use common sense, again, we can continue to flourish as a society and seek to live free from tyranny.

And no, Kerry was not one to give us many of these options. Period.

Al, by sealing up your home or even a room in your house you would die of suffocation long before you would be exposed to biologicals, unless they were dropped directly into your neighborhood.

I guess if you live in a one room bedroom apartment that could be the case. But think about this…the prevailing winds would eventually take care of most effects of the gases eventually. But if you really are worried about suffocating, buy a few potted plants to recycle to the carbon monoxide in your “small environment”.

The Dept. of Homeland Security is a joke. It is a grossly underfunded agency that even Bush didn’t want.

Your government is trying to keep you so scared that you don’t see their ineptitude in dealing with the “War on Terror”. Remember Bush isn’t worried about OBL any more.

I suppose if we were to start shelling more funds into homeland security somebody would start crying foul and how it’s eating away at their Social Security. And I don’t remember Bush saying he wasn’t worried about him anymore. I think the context of his comments was that his network has been crippled by a large percentage and that it is a matter of time until he gets caught. I for one am optimistic about that. And I find your assessment of how the administration is handling the war on terror biased as the least. With the Quada network crippled and a known terrorist funder/genocide maniac out of power this admninistration has gone way beyond any other in securing terrorist threats. A good deal had been going on before Bush came into office and the terrorists had gotten very confident into thinking they could succeed with many of their actions.

The reference to Oklahoma City. I think that we should be more afraid of internal terrorism by our own citizens. Posted by: Rocky at November 24, 2004 01:29 PM

Well, now you’re back to being afraid. Please make up your mind you scares you most. I don’t think being afraid is the solution to any problem. It’s being prepared, alert, cautious, and using common sense. Things are going to continue to happen and the bad people are going to succeed sometimes. But if we continue to have our wits about us and report suspicious activity as well as use common sense, again, we can continue to flourish as a society and seek to live free from tyranny.

And no, Kerry was not one to give us many of these options. Period.

Sorry for the double post.

Alejo…your father is right…all laws should be obeyed, because it is the right thing to do. Most laws are there to protect the public. Now one can argue that transporting D*ldos in Texas and being arrested for it might sound silly, but it is an actual and you will be arrested if caught.

Laws in America are mostly meant to distinguish right from wrong and to inflict a form of punishment when broken. You need laws to establish order. And you need a free justice system to interpret those laws and attempt to fairly deal out justice and punishment to those that deserve.

But as you know, this is not a perfect world.

Okay, first of all: Even if you tried you’d have a hard time making your house air-tight, and if you did manage it having a couple of house-plants to turn your carbon DIoxide into oxygen isn’t going to work. The “plastic and duct tape” advice was given merely to give people something to focus on, just like “duck and cover.” The gubmint knew good and well that climbing under a desk wouldn’t protect you from radiation; they just wanted to give people something to do.

Big Al:

Alejo…your father is right…all laws should be obeyed, because it is the right thing to do.

I didn’t mean to imply that he was wrong. I was just trying to illustrate that people who do what the government tells them aren’t stupid.

I was kinda kidding with the house plant thing. Just trying to stress how fear of protecting ourselves overrides fear of the actual terrorists acts.

Look, if someone has intentions of blowing up a bomb in the middle of mall, there is very little we could do about it. Think about it. But if an alert mother, teenager, or security guard happens to notice a brown paper bag left alone unattended for a while, who knows what can happen and what can be avoided. We could save hundreds of lives or someone could get a paper bag containing a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. Both win-win situation.

Al,
Just how many potted plants are we talking about here?
Why bother creating a Cabinet Level Dept. if you aren’t going to fund it?

As to Bush’s comment about OBL. Here’s a link.
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/110204E.shtml

“In March 2002, Bush said: “So I don’t know where he is … Nor - you know, I just don’t spend that much time on him really, to be honest with you. I… I truly am not that concerned about him.”

” But if we continue to have our wits about us and report suspicious activity as well as use common sense, again, we can continue to flourish as a society and seek to live free from tyranny.”

Tyrany is at your door step pal. The question is are you going to open the door.

Listen, when you have a nation to run thinking about OBL all day is not going to accomplish. That is why you have subordinates and staff that do their job in making things happen. I understand your bias, but no, tyranny is not knocking at my door…it’s just my neighbor asking to borrow my water hose again.

OK, just a few things:
With the proper filtration system, plastic and duck tape works better than nothing.
The color coded terror alert system was designed from the military use of the threatcon system. It is primarily for govt agency’s and not for the general public. Which is why you will find charts and status updates at govt facilities and not at china-Mart.

Now, on the lighter side:
Liberals are illegally entering Canada: Help needed
http://www.rense.com/general60/ame.htm

Al,
Bias? Look around you. Belive it or not I didn’t vote for Kerry.
As for OBL Bush himself said that we would seek him out and destroy him.
So, where is he?

Hey Kctim,

That’s your damn problem! :)

Or you could try the Bush plan and give them temporary 3 year visas for any job a Canadian doesn’t want to do.

:D

Weird how these links dont always work.
I just checked and the story really is at that address.
Try cutting and pasting it in, that seems to work fine.

Thanks all

Wasn’t talking about you, Rocky, when I mentioned biased. But as I recall, we still haven’t given up nor will we give up hunting down OBL.

Big Al and Rocky —

Perhaps we need to find a balance somewhere between voluntarily giving up our freedoms and comparing the current administration to the Third Reich.
Big Al, you’re right — we can’t stop terrorism. So we shouldn’t allow the government more power over us than it should have. We all need to be alert and aware, and we need people like Rocky, who will be the first to let us know that the government has gone too far while we weren’t looking.

Hey, I’m all for it. Questioning the government is our Constitutional right as is the 2nd Amendment given for our own protection from any government.

But some things need to placed into perspective. A government that fails in security issues because it falls to criticism and popular opinion ( as I believe the last Clinton administration was guilty for) is a weak govermnent that is unable to protect the people that voted it into office!

I voted for security as well as other issues. And regardless what many people think, homosexual marriage had nothing to do with my vote!

So why aren’t we funding Homeland security?

What I believe this administration wants to underline…

Haha! That’s the beautiful thing about the Bush administration. Who knows what they’re really doing.

Big Al, if you voted for Bush for security, you voted for the wrong guy.

It shouldn’t take five minutes to cover a what to do if…. Naturally, someone has to make a huge program out of it. It’s the way people get to keep their jobs. You know, manufacture or exaggerate a problem, devise a solution good or bad, rational or not, build a program around it, head the program, get credit for it. Keep your job.

It shouldn’t take five minutes to cover a what to do if…. Naturally, someone has to make a huge program out of it. It’s the way people get to keep their jobs. You know, manufacture or exaggerate a problem, devise a solution good or bad, rational or not, build a program around it, head the program, get credit for it. Keep your job.

For those who have commented positively about the existence of the color code system, I have a question:

Why colors? It’s derived from the defcon system, so why not just stick with the defcon numbers, a system the public was already well familiar with?

Yeah, and why broadcast it on Fox if it’s not meant for the public? If it was some techie thing that only DoD employees understood, why does everyone recognize it? And if it’s meant for the public, why doesn’t it say anything meaningful?

Josh, you’re right. The color code was meant to inform the public. That’s why Ridge always has a big press conference whenever the colors change. Or maybe that was just an election year thing… Who knows.

I saw last week where the Brits arrested some more terrorist suspects. They’re not making a big public circus out of it, and political operatives in their administration aren’t spilling their guts to the press and hindering intelligence gathering and further operations.

“We got another one. Move along. Nothing to see here.”

Pretty professional, if you ask me.

Haha! That’s the beautiful thing about the Bush administration. Who knows what they’re really doing.

Big Al, if you voted for Bush for security, you voted for the wrong guy.
Posted by: American Pundit at November 25, 2004 01:43 AM

Welcome back everyone! I hope everyone had a good Thankskgiving. Now, AM, if you mean to say that I should have voted for a guy with a 20 year (thats TWENTY) history of voting against security, cutting the budgets for the CIA intelligence, cutting the defense budget for our troops in Iraq ( “I actually voted for the $87 billion, before I voted against it”) and a record in the service where after he was shot (or shot himself, it’s debatable) he came back from Vietnam and chastized his own troops, threw away his own medals, or ribbons, and quite possible did more damage to POW’s during his frequent campaigns in Hanoi.

NO, I voted for the right guy. Period.

So why aren’t we funding Homeland security? Posted by: Rocky at November 24, 2004 05:38 PM

I believe they are, Rocky. Somewhere to the tune of $350 million a year and to be disbursed between the states.

Don’t be so quick to throw out the “potted plant” idea.

That might be a defence against canibus found in your home…(smiling)

I thought they were calling homeland security the Department of FEAR these days.

How dare anyone waste their time answering an anti-American on his refusal to take common sense to heart. IF an attack occurs, and IF he is near, it’s his problem to deal with. IF his friends and neighbors follow his pathetic-government-please-save-me lead, justice will have been served and they will be a good example of a bad example.

Kev — MinorityMan

Big Al, I’m sure you realize that Kerry voted for a fiscally responsible version of the $87 billion bill and against the completely irresponsible version.

I guess that’s an area where “deficit hawk” Democrats and “borrow and spend” Republicans will never see eye-to-eye. :)

Somewhere to the tune of $350 million a year and to be disbursed between the states.

As Kerry said in the debates, “You don’t measure it by a percentage increase… you measure it by whether you’re getting the job done.”

I did a brief survey of Bush’s homeland security record here recently.

So Kev, the guys who fought the hijackers for control of the 9/11 aircraft were just unlucky because they lost? The people in the towers should have… what? I don’t even know.

I think it’s reasonable to have a single integrated terrorist watch-list (which we still don’t have) to ensure terrorists don’t get on planes or into the country.

I also think it’s ok for the DHS to issue actionable information and warnings. It’s the vague “We’re all gonna die!” announcements that are unhelpful.

Big Al,
“Now, AM, if you mean to say that I should have voted for a guy with a 20 year (thats TWENTY) history of voting against security, cutting the budgets for the CIA intelligence, cutting the defense budget for our troops in Iraq ( “I actually voted for the $87 billion, before I voted against it”) and a record in the service where after he was shot (or shot himself, it’s debatable) he came back from Vietnam and chastized his own troops, threw away his own medals, or ribbons, and quite possible did more damage to POW’s during his frequent campaigns in Hanoi.”

Hopefully you are aware that Mr. Cheney also voted against most of those same weapons systems.

Do you have proof that Kerry shot himself?

When did Kerry go to Hanoi?

Good luck Rocky. Big Al obviously doesn’t believe those things because he looked into them himself. We’ve been debunking that kind of GOP negative campaign propaganda for almost a year. If he’s really interested in the truth, he can go back through the archives here.

Kerry’s voting record is here, the transcript of Kerry’s 1971 Senate testimony is here.

And Kerry talked to a North Vietnamese representative at the Paris peace talks to find out about getting US POWs released. I hope Big Al’s not going to tell me that’s a bad idea. :)

AP,
Just looking for a response.

Here is a story on Kerry’s involvement with Hanoi. I’m sure he didn’t do any of this to further his run for any office

Hanoi Kerry

Also, here are some of Kerry’s accomplishment while voting to protect American security.

Kerry The Protector

As for proof if Kerry shot himself, Michelle Malkin did an interesting piece and even tried to explain in on Hardball with Cris ‘Spastic’ Matthews and he slams her. She tried to explain that a self inflicted wound does not necessarily mean he shot himself intentionally. But read on about what was said in that spew heated interview.

Cris goes ballistic

Here is an even more detailed version of current funding for Homeland Security.

But I guess it’s never enough

Here is a story…

Exactly.