Democrats & Liberals: Archives

Well, I would not be so worried about Christ saying the peacemakers will be blessed, but more about the current seperation of church and state. We have a President who has made reference to his creator several times in speeches.

What about gay marrige? I do not see how that is unconstitutional.

The war in Iraq is not supposed to be about religion yet over and over again our President states that he was commanded by his creator to do so.

Which brings me to a point that I have been thinking about and that you have brought up: Why do we move to impeach a President who had an affair but that in no visible way affected our country or his presidency while a current president lies to his country and trashes its laws?

Exactly why I brought all of this up. If Bush (and his cohorts) are such God-fearing and God-following people, why have they forsaken His word and His teachings, much to the detriment of all Americans — regardless of anyones personal religious beliefs? I know I’ve broached two of the worst subjects for any discussion (religion and politics) but they are being combined by the current administration and all it is really serving to do is polarize America more. We don’t need to be polarized right now — our sons and daughters are marching dilligently off to war, like good “Christian” soldiers, but we have no support from anyone else in the world. We’re making ourselves pariahs with little thought about the actual outcome or consequences…

Adam: what “laws” and “lies” are you talking about?
give some examples, because I sure can’t think of any.

Well, the Patriot Act removes the authority of the 4th, 5th, and 6th Amendment of the Constitution which is law.

Then there was several people arrested wihtout due process.

Then there is the issue with Enron wherein Kenneth Lay bascially got away with extortion and a million dollar tax cut.

Then there was the whole deal of the WMD. Even recently there was an article how there is no evidence that the Saddam attempted to move WMD. You can find that here - http://www.salon.com/news/wire/2003/11/16/wmd/index.html

Don’t forget the forged papers from Niger in which Saddam supposedly tried to obtain powdered Uranium cake.

How about how the White House and Pentagon refuse to disclose documents to the 9-11 Commitee?

And then there are the War Crimes commited in Iraq. Did you know we used napalm? A weapon which has been outlawed for thirty years. We also poisoned water supplies and intentionally attacked civilian targets.

How is that? I am sure there are more, but that is the basic gist of it. Ignoring morals for political and financial gain.

Where are the weapons of mass destruction that Saddam was about to unleash on the unsuspecting world?

And what about Jessica Lynch? Hasn’t she come out to say that the administration lied about her heroism?

well,first of all adam, thank you for not going all “angry lefty” on me for asking.

now,i’m just a little high-schooler,so I don’t know that much about the Patriot act or any of those other things,

but I do know[I think]that the “forged papers” were the Brits problem,and what were your sources on the “warcrimes”, because I just can’t belive we would do that.

Mi-ke, I’d be careful about calling the forged papers “the Brit’s problem” - who’s losing the most soldiers daily in Iraq?

As far as warcrimes, do some research on what’s been going on in South/Central America during the War on Drugs (Agent Orange usage, the Iran/Contra debacle), look up the history of Augusto Pinochet and Henry Kissinger, or the My Lai massacre during the Viet Nam — to name a few.

That is cool Mi-ke. To be honest, I am only a college freshman.

I assume that you, like me, have just found this site and am intrigued by it. Places like this are a great source of information and the same goes for other blogs online. Keep researching and you will find several sources of information.

huxley,what does the fact that we’re losing the most troops in iraq have any bearing on ‘forged papers’?
(we’re losing the most in iraq because we have,by far, the most troops there, duh)

and i’m asking about the “warcrimes” in iraq, not in,whatever other places you mentioned.
(though I can see why you would say that considering my last statement in my last post)

Exactly my point, Mi-ke: we’ve committed over 100,000 U.S. soldiers to Iraq based on “forged documents” that Bush and Co. held up as “proof” that war against Iraq was justified, thereby making the problem an American one, not just a British one. Tell the families of dead American, British, and Italian soldiers that the forging of those documents was justified. Saddam was contained thanks to UN sanctions and now we’re facing a more serious problem of militant religious fundamentalism, the burgeouning costs of our occupation of Iraq, and the fact that the animosity and hostility towards Americans will spread across the region and around the world.

Regarding the war crimes, I was pointing out that America, despite our idealism and the fact that we often try to take the moral “high ground” is no better than a lot of our “enemies” and those we try to impose our ideals upon. Look who supported Iran and Iraq during their wars? Who gave weapons to the Taliban/Mujahadeen? The revolution in Iran was brought about because Iranians were unhappy with the Shah — a leader who was put into power by the United States.

alright-alright, i haven’t the vocabulary or the will to continue this discussion,i’m just a little kid.
(i’ve just been waiting around hoping that an older person like me would step in to take my place,but it seems no one has come to my rescue….)

It’s a good discussion and even if you don’t have the heart to continue this one, jump in on some others - that’s what the site is for!

I agree whole-heartedly with Adam and huxley75. There should be a better separation of Church & Government and the way in which Bush can be simultaneously pious, duplicitous and hypocritical is disgusting. How can he be such a religious zealot and act in such an unGodly manner?

unGodly!? so I guess murder,incest,and “free sex” are!?
if Bush is unGodly, then I hope never to meet someone thats “Godly”

I do.

Mi-ke…weren’t the Crusades about “freeing” the Holy Land (hmmm…western countries invading the Middle East? Nah, no correlation)from the “God-less”? What about the Inquisitions? Or the Salem Witch Trials (which were on American soil)? Per the original crux of this post, with “God on [your] side” your (pretty much) free to commit any atrocity you’d like simply because you have God on your side. Who’s to argue that you’re wrong? Your enemies? Well, they’re your enemies because God isn’t on their side, right?

And, regarding “free sex” - what was Mary Magdelene’s profession? Please refer to the lines: “turn the other cheek” or “Let ye without sin” phrases in the Good Book. I was always taught that “God is love” — nowhere in the Bible do I remember reading or learning that a hundred well-placed .50 calibre rounds or one expertly aimed TOW is a valid expression of God’s love…I could be wrong though. God does work in mysterious ways.

Hi there. I’m new to this site, and I’m Canadian, so I don’t know much about US government and politics, but I’m experiencing increased interest (and derision) towards the policies of the Bush Administration, which, no doubt, is a common phenomenon in the world today.

I wholly disagree with the United States invading Iraq, and I think that Americans are not getting the full story about the war from their media providers. “Imbedded” journalists are nothing but cheerleaders shouting the nation on, and their reports are seemingly sanitized to turn a raw situation into a Disney movie.

In your opinion, what feelings do Americans have towards the war, and do you think there is a possibility that Iraq may not be the end of this long and insane journey?

Mi-ke, could you explain the murder, incest, and free sex comment? I’m not sure where that came from, unless it is a reference to Sadaam. if that is it, perhaps you are under the impression that opponents of the war support Sadaam. WE DISLIKE SADAAM AS MUCH AS YOU DO. We just hope do not believe that it was in the interest or rights of the US to attack him. The UN was created for a reason, and if they decide that Sadaam did not need to be removed, we cannot attack.
We are trying to impose a worldview based on the rule of law, which is a political science term meaning that all people are subject to the same laws. If we want other countries to see how important it is, perhaps we should try to apply it on the international level. Failure to do so not only undermines our credibility, it is downright dangerous, making countries such as Pakistan less likely to see us as victims and more likely to see us as aggressors, no matter who or where we are attacked.

Democrats will lose the next election at all levels if these are the issues. Every poll shows that Americans overwhelmingly supported and still support the war if only because Sadaam is out of power. Taking an opposing position, however moral the candidate may feel s/he may be, strengthens the public image that Democrats are weak on national defense, out of touch with the public, care more about flakey ideology than the security of the nation. Must the party stay stuck in the 60’s? This was not Vietnam. Almost everyone I know asks the question, “So what did you like best about Sadaam Hussein?”

“This book [speaking of the bible] is the secret of
England’s greatness.” Queen, Victoria Windsor

“My daily advisor and comfort is the impregnable rock
of the Holy Scriptures.” Gladstone, architech of
American law

“You do well to wish to learn our arts and ways of
life, and above all, the religion of Jesus Christ.
These will make you a greater and happier people than
you are. Congress will do every thing they can to
assist you in this intention.” a message to the
Native American Indians, May, 12th, 1779 by, George
Washington, 1st US President

“Religion and virtue are the only foundations, not
only of republicanism and of all free government, but
of social felicity under all governments and in all
the combinations of human society.” John Adams, 2nd
US President

“I have always said, and will always say, that the
studious perusal of the sacred volume will make us
better citizens, better husbands, and better fathers.”
Thomas Jefferson, 3rd US President, 1st Washington
D.C. school board president

“Before any man can be considered as a member of Civil
Society, he must be considered as a subject of the
Governor of the Universe… Religion… is the basis
and foundation of government.” James Madison, 4th US
President, chief architect of the Constitution

“The Declaration of Independence first organized the
social compact on the foundation of the Redeemer’s
mission upon earth and laid the corner stone of human
government upon the first precepts of Christianity.”
John Quincy Adams, 6th US President

“The bible is the rock on which our Republic rest.”
Andrew Jackson, 7th US President

“I am profitably engaged in reading the Bible. Take
all of this upon reason that you can, and balance on
faith, and you will live and die a better man.”
Abraham Lincoln, 16th US President

“I am sorry for the men who do not read the Bible
daily. I wonder why they deprive themselves of the
strength and the pleasure. I should be afraid to go
forward if I did not believe that there lay at the
foundation of all schooling and all our thought this
imcomparable and unimpeachable Word of God.” Woodrow
Wilson, 28th US President

“Almost every man who has by his life work added to
the sum of human achievements of which the race is
proud - has based his life work largely upon the
teachings of the Bible.” Theodore Roosevelt, 32nd US
President

“Religion is the only solid basis of good morals;
therefore, education should teach the precepts of
religion, and the duties of man towards God.”
Gouveneur Morris, scribe / handwriter of the
Constitution

“Whoever is an avowed enemy of God, I scuple not to
call him an enemy to this country.” John
Whitherspoon, Continental Congress, Declaration of
Independence

“Providence has given to our people the choice of
their rulers, and it is the duty as well as the
privelege and interest of our Christian Nation to
select and prefer Christians for their rulers.” John
Jay, 1st Supreme Court Justice

“It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often
that this great nation was founded, not by
religionist, but by Christians, not on religions but
on the gospel of Jesus Christ! For this reason
peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum,
prosperity and freedom of worship here.” Patrick
Henry, Continental Congress

“…convincing proofs I see… that God governs in the
affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the
ground without His notice, is it probable that an
empire can rise without His aid?” Benjamin Franklin,
Constitutional Convention,

“Of all the dipositions and habits which lead to
political prosperity, religion and morality are
indispensable supports… . Reason and experience
both forbid us to expect that national morality can
prevail in exclusion of religious principles.”
Alexander Hamiltion, 1st Secretary of Treasurer

“The moral principles and precepts contained in the
Scriptures ought to form the basis of all our civil
constitutions and laws… . All the miseries and
evils which men suffer from vice, crime, ambition,
injustice, opppression, slavery, and war, proceed from
their despising or neglecting the precepts contained
in the Bible.” Noah Webster, American Revolutionist,
Constitutional Convention, Dictionary

“There is not a community which cannot be purified,
redeemed and improved by a better knowledge and larger
application of the Bible to daily life.” W.J. Bryan,
Democratic Orator and statesman, ran three times for
presidency and failed, nicknamed the Commoner

“I suspect that the future progress of the human race
will be determined by the circulation of the Bible.”
Dr. R.A. Millikan, 1923 Nobel prize winner in physics

“Our ways; through a Christian President, finally
outlawed slavery in America with the world soon
following its lead. The great freedoms we enjoy are
the direct result of the Christian faith of our
predecessors. No great civilization or religion from
the world did it; it was our Christian Forefathers and
Foremothers and their open faith in God through the
Jesus Christ that did.” William M.
Cooper, coopr2000@yahoo.com